hazard
Dec 29 2005, 02:10 PM
B. Obstacles Between the Lie and Hole: A player may not move, alter, bend, break, or hold back any part of any obstacle between the lie and the hole, with one exception. A player may move obstacles between the lie and the hole that became a factor during the round, such as spectators, players' equipment, open gates, or branches that fell during the round. Where it is not known if an obstacle has become a factor during a round, it shall not be moved. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to make incidental movement of an obstacle.

C. Casual Obstacles: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, spectators, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The type of relief a player may obtain is based on the location of the obstacle and is limited as follows:
(1) Casual obstacles between the lie and the hole: No relief is granted except for obstacles which became a factor during the round as described by 803.04 B.
(2) Casual obstacles to stance or throwing motion: The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If this is impractical, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole; is on the line of play; and not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director). Alternatively, the player may declare an unsafe lie and proceed in accordance with 803.05.


...I am having a lot of fun with mental images stemming from

(a) the wording that essentially instructs the player to attempt to move the spectator...common sense dictates that this would involve asking the spectator to move, but the wording doesn't...

(b) wondering under what circumstances moving a spectator would be impractical enough to warrant taking relief, without there being some kind of medical emergency going on...

(c) the fact that the wording for casual relief never says what conditions are to be met by the relocated lie that were not met by the original...one would assume that the relocated lie is supposed to remove the casual obstacle from obstructing stance or throwing motion, but due to the omission of any mention of this and the inclusion of the word "nearest," I am having a hard time figuring out how this rule can be applied literally without either "greater casual relief" having been specified by the TD, or the majority of the group or an official essentially determining that the lie prior to relocation somehow did not qualify as a lie. Can anyone clear this one up for me with some phrasing I missed, or is this just a case where the correct application of the rule requires the use of common sense in order to have the intended effect?

chainranger
Dec 30 2005, 02:17 PM
At Zilker Park (the BIG layout) in Austin, around 1989, we had a family at a picnic talble on the edge of the fairway. When a roller went behind the picnic area and the player asked them to move for his throw they refused. Even though they were told the area was reserved for the tournament, ti just made them more beligerent.
Right or wrong, we let the player move back about 5 meters and throw. (rather than getting the TD from WAY on the other side of the park)

hazard
Jan 01 2006, 04:25 PM
That does seem to constitute a perfect example.

I had also considered that technically the way the two sections are worded, if a spectator had been in the same spot since before the beginning of the round, I think you could take relief but wouldn't be allowed to move him...but going back and looking again I'm not sure that would be the right way to read it even if it did make sense.