I wish I could control myself, but it is beyond my abilities.

I was reading the rules and bylaws for the USGA about Amateur vs. Open status and found several interesting things. First of all, it is acceptable to win prizes as an Amateur in ball golf, but the value of the prize must not exceed $500. This is the line drawn by the US Golfing Association. This is recognized by the PGA as well. What caught my eye, though, was that if a hole in one or CTP competition pays out in cash, an amateur may participate, but if the amateur wins and accepts cash, they are to move their designation from amateur to open. So while we have arguments about what true amateur status is, what is the general feeling about aces? By the way, there is no limit, any cash should move you to an Open division. The exception appears to be in, gambling on yourself. So the 51 club appears to be legit among amateurs.

I agree with the PDGA in that it is a "side game". It could essentially be considered a separate, non-sanctioned event. If that caused problems with technicalities, someone other than the TD or their staff could take and give out the money.

I anticipated this response, the USGA does not consider it a side issue for ace pots. If you accept cash, you are not an amateur, regardless of who pays it. The only exception I found was that juniors, <19 year old players, could have expenses, greens fees and caddy fees paid by another.

In one of the question and answer FAQs the USGA states that if it is converted to prizes, as long as it was under $500, it could be accepted.


I agree with the PDGA in that it is a "side game". It could essentially be considered a separate, non-sanctioned event. If that caused problems with technicalities, someone other than the TD or their staff could take and give out the money.

I think you have misstated the USGA's position on amateur standing, but maybe I'm wrong and you can provide a link. I'm fairly certain that violating the USGA rules on amateur standing does NOT change your status to "Open." It changes your status to having forfeited your right to compete as an amateur.

The USGA rules on amateur status are here (http://www.usga.org/playing/amateur_status/rules/amstat_rules.html).

You are correct, I implied that to play you would have to move into the Open division. This implication was found in a question and answer by one of the members of the board for the USGA. I am looking for the site now. However, the point is still, ace money causes a loss of amateur status and taking a maxiumum of $500 in prizes does not.


I think you have misstated the USGA's position on amateur standing, but maybe I'm wrong and you can provide a link. I'm fairly certain that violating the USGA rules on amateur standing does NOT change your status to "Open." It changes your status to having forfeited your right to compete as an amateur.

The USGA rules on amateur status are here (http://www.usga.org/playing/amateur_status/rules/amstat_rules.html).

I stand corrected. Bruce is correct, they do not move their status to Open, but to non-amateur. The USGA states that they only see two primary division, amateur and non-amateur and this is where I made my mistake. Thanks Bruce.


I wish I could control myself, but it is beyond my abilities.

I was reading the rules and bylaws for the USGA about Amateur vs. Open status and found several interesting things. First of all, it is acceptable to win prizes as an Amateur in ball golf, but the value of the prize must not exceed $500. This is the line drawn by the US Golfing Association. This is recognized by the PGA as well. What caught my eye, though, was that if a hole in one or CTP competition pays out in cash, an amateur may participate, but if the amateur wins and accepts cash, they are to move their designation from amateur to open. So while we have arguments about what true amateur status is, what is the general feeling about aces? By the way, there is no limit, any cash should move you to an Open division. The exception appears to be in, gambling on yourself. So the 51 club appears to be legit among amateurs.

In the PGA and USGA players do not routinely or normally (if ever) contribute to a common "opt-in ace pot". Thus, in our sport, where we do have a separate and optional ace pot it is a separate event, and thus has no bearing on our amatuer status.

Rooster,

Thanks, that is the response I was looking for, though that is not strictly true. Almost every city has a Hole in One competition and from the Q&A I was reading this can effect your Amateur standing in the USGA.

However, the point you made about our sport not considering ace pots an amateur/non-amateur pont of contention is true. This can also be applied to the belief by some that accepting prizes should make amateurs non-amateurs. Why can an amateur take prizes in Disc Golf? Because our sport allows it.



In the PGA and USGA players do not routinely or normally (if ever) contribute to a common "opt-in ace pot". Thus, in our sport, where we do have a separate and optional ace pot it is a separate event, and thus has no bearing on our amatuer status.

So while we have arguments about what true amateur status is, what is the general feeling about aces?

It doesn't make sense to me to compare ace cash rules between disc and ball golf. An ace in disc golf is significantly easier than a ball golf hole-in-one (i.e. AMs regularly hit them). My game is definitely amateurish but I've managed to win an ace pot. If I was forced to move up to pro (since I accepted the $70 or so) then I would have to pay higher entry fees + get my butt completely handed to me.

Should not make any difference , if a Am aces in a tournament or not.

Ace's are open to the public !!!! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif