Jonas was asking a question on the Charleston tourney topic and I decided to thumb my 2 cents in over here... (Righty explanation of course)
The most important to thing to me is stretching, in baseball you warm up for 10-15 minutes before you go launching a ball, I worry in disc golf because way to many people just go out hucking on a cold arm and shoulder, which is very dangerous...
Next is technique, when you first start throwing thumbers try throwing 60 to 80% power until you get your motion and footwork down.
Make sure your body is behind your throw( i.e. the crow hop in baseball) and use an overstable disc for max distance heavier the better, except injurys happen more frequently because of more pressure on your shoulder... The crow hop is very similar to a sidearm �X� step and is the key to unleashing the power of your legs Study the footwork of an outfielder waiting to catch a ball and trying to throw it in as quickly as possible.
Your shoulder turn and hip turn is extremely important. They should stay inline through the motion of the throw until right before the release. Your shoulders during your reach back should be close to inline with your target. You should be looking over your left shoulder during the reach back (keep your head angled to where your eyes are looking). Your off arm should be reaching towards your target and your eyes should always stay on your target. When you start your arm forward your off arm should curl up tightly to your body (tip: thumb in or near your arm pit) as your shoulders are rotating open towards your target. When you throw your thumb should finish pointing straight down at the ground, a common mistake is to push your thumb from right to left (2:00 to 8:00) when it should be more like 2:00 to 6:00. If your shoulder can't take a heavy disc try the lighter ones but stay over stable, for max distance. The more understable they are the quicker they turn and fall out of the air. Practice in a field with all of your discs, pace off distances and know what disc goes what distance, I throw with the same form and power to throw 310 as I do 215, I use a new overstable Firebird or monster or a beat flippy understable teebird or stingray and all of the in betweens. I played catcher in baseball and I have really strong shoulders from wrestling as well. I�m 5�9 � and I weigh 178lbs. 325 is my max throw (w/out a roll) but I average around 300 unless I�m using an epic which is a completely different story. Height and weight are directly linked to how far a person can throw, as well as bone structure and flexibility. Technique can allow you to reach your maximum based on your own physical limitations.

the mechanics I have pretty well. but I am curious about optimum release angle and how much wrist snap to use. I can't rely on my overhand shots because I'm still experimenting with these. What works best.

I personally throw from about 1:30 in the wrist but it is more like 1:00 because of the angle at which my elbow is bent. I've seen others work, usually a little more vertical would be optimum but alot of shoulders aren't designed to handle that kind of strain, especially for just a few more feet. If you can slightly arch your back and launch the disc more vertical you can pick up more distance, the slower your approach the better you can execute this technique. My throws are between 80-90% power. Maybe 1 or 2 times in a tourney I'll over 90%. Most of the time I don't

The part that confuses me is the left to right travel of the disc. When I throw my thumber, it goes pretty much straight, only slightly left at the start and then back to center at the finish.

It seems like I see some thumbers (like the one schwebe threw) that travel 50 to 100 feet from left to right?

I use a 175ish champion firebird mostly, for about 250-280 max (I am exceptionally weak)

??

Schwebb is in a different league Jonas, don't ever compare your thumber against his, it will just leave you feeling inadequate. I would study his form though, that will definitely help you. He attests his thumbing abilities to playing tennis (the stroke being the same an overhand). Jeb also uses this technique for thumbers. I can offer no real advice except for watch and learn.

left to right movement is all about the angle of release. if you want a tighter roll, release the disc with your arm as close to vertical as possible. the farther you drop your arm towards horizontal on release, the wider the roll and the farther your disc will finish towards the right

assuming you're throwing a firebird or other overstable driver

That sounds good. I need to practice it more but it scrapes my thumb raw and hurts my shoulder to throw too many.

What is the preferred launch angle to acheive max distance?

i would say just off vertical. if you watch schweb throw for distance, he throws so that the disc rolls as late as possible. i think the keys to max distance would be; elimination of flutter on release (tight grip), a late roll, and height (enough for max flight)

An excellent reply.

Now if only Innova would make a disc that didn't rip my thumb off. Maybe a disc that is beveled in a way that makes it slip off the thumb easier, yet still have the same flight characteristics of a firebird.

Have you ever thumbered a Flick (not innova)?

It seems to be a very shallow disc that is also very stable, maybe it would help my thumb. (or I could just toughen up, maybe)

I throw vertical for max distance. I can get the disc between 300 and 320ft max. I'm not exactly sure because I dont throw this shot for distance. Remember to lean back and follow through. Use your body to aid your arm just as in a backhand. This will also keep the stress off your shoulder. As for the left and right movement, from my experience the more overstable a disc is, the more left to right movement it has. I use a pro line firebird for my distance thumbers. The same disc as Schweb.

Old style KC pro or the new pro line? I have been practicing with the standard champion firebird.

I use a Champion Banshee for all my overhand shots. I don't do too many thumbers (mostly when in trouble), but I throw a lot of tomahawks. As Eddie said, I use a very vertical release for max D (about 325) & notice a 25-35 ft. right drift at hi speed & a 25-35 ft. left drift on the way down for a net straight flight. Make sure to concentrate on full-body torque & superfast snap, NOT arm speed.

Are there any videos of thumbers? so that I can study the motion. Also, can someone remind me the difference between a thumber and a scooby?

Are there any videos of thumbers? so that I can study the motion. Also, can someone remind me the difference between a thumber and a scooby?



This guy (http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/analysis/brianschweberger5.shtml) is pretty good at them. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

So is a thumber like a tomahawk?

Thumber - Top of flight plate is facing away from your body when disc is held vertically
Tomahawk - Top of flight plate is facing toward your body when disc is held vertically

My thumber max's out around 370. I use a glow banshee. Anyways, one important thing to remember in a thumber is to release the disc with the lead edge facing the direction of the throw. A lot of people open the face of the disc up and it results in the disc losing a lot of the speed and fading right early. Think of the face of the disc of a thumber like a sail. It is highly affected. This same line of thought also applies to thumbers in the wind. Wind affects thumbers quite a bit, but that doesn't necessarily mean its a bad wind shot if you know how it will affect it. Another thing to remember is to grip the disc real tight as you release it. Just like a power grip backhand, distance potential is related to strength of grip.
Thumbers can be very effective on mountain courses with lots of elevation changes since the distance is very predictable even downhill.
Last of all, keep the backhand as your main drive. Your game will be better in the long run.

I wish I could throw a Thumber 370. :(

I think he meant 370 decimeters.

No doubt!! I think my thumber max is about 350 ft...most throws for distance go around 275--300 ft

Schwebb is in a different league Jonas, don't ever compare your thumber against his, it will just leave you feeling inadequate. I would study his form though, that will definitely help you. He attests his thumbing abilities to playing tennis (the stroke being the same an overhand). Jeb also uses this technique for thumbers. I can offer no real advice except for watch and learn.

Definitely tennis and pitching

I wish I could throw a Thumber 370. :(



Someday I will show you how. I promise.

I think I throw my thumber around 170' max!!! <font color="white"> <FONT SIZE=1>Left handed</FONT>
</font>

I once threw a thumber with a Soft Magnet and it went 200'!

I can only throw a thumber with a driver 250'

Anyone else see something wrong with that?

I can only throw a thumber with a driver 250'

Anyone else see something wrong with that?



Yeah...If the hole is 350'.

Schweb taught me the no spin thumber, via Bill O'reilly. No snap and very vertical. Those are the longest thumbers I've thrown. But I'm a wimp at them. Takes a lot of practice to eliminate snap on an overhand.

The knuckle thumb is sick...but the split thumber is mo betta.

Schweb taught me the no spin thumber

can you explain more?

sssshhhhhhh, dont give away Ancient Family Secrets.

Schweb taught me the no spin thumber

can you explain more?

To perform this style throw it is not "no spin" but, "less Spin" This is created by not having a fast follow thru post release. With less spin the disc has less tendency to do its flip over as fast, creating what I call a Stall Thumber, which in turn gets more distance for me with less effort.

ah thanks. I think I threw some of those yesterday when I was taking Efrain's # 1 tag. :D they seem to float farther and not come back

when I was taking Efrain's # 1 tag. :D



I think I have seen this type statement on at least 4 different threads thus far this morning , you boaster!! :p

Yeah....I have done that with my thumbers before, but didnt realize why the disc was 'stalling'. Now I can practice them both with that in mind. Thanks Schweb :D

Yeah....I have done that with my thumbers before, but didnt realize why the disc was 'stalling'. Now I can practice them both with that in mind. Thanks Schweb :D

No problem, that is what I am on here 4.

Hey Schweb...have you ever tried using a Monster for thumbers? If so, why do you use Firebirds over them? More distance w/ the Firebirds?

I used to throw the thumber for just about everything. The problem was, it was rubbing my wrist almost raw. This was using Midnight Flyers, 40 and 80 molds. I used tape and wristbands which helped alot. I was never really knew if I was doing something wrong or what. I prefer blunt or deep rimmed discs because I can place my thumb comfortably. I dont see how you guys throw thumbers with discs I think have rims that are too shallow. Now I only use a thumber for rollers with a Lightining B17 (stiffer plastic). I know it sound crazy, but thats what seems to work for me. Jeff Homburg had the best and most powerful thumber I ever saw. I was told that Don Wilchek was also was a masterful butcher with one. Lots of good thumber info to take in. peacefrog and donovan

Yo Schweb, do you throw any thumber shots with understable plastic? Just wondering if there is any benefit to this.

Thanks buddy,
mc

If this is the "Ask Schweb" thread I want in on the action :D
about this no spin thumber...is the benefit distance or accuracy or both? I tried to throw some today, not to much avail, but it seemed to stay a little straighter. I am wrestling between a Predator and a Spirit. I'm more accurate with the Predator but get more distance from the Spirit. Mind you i have yet to master the ninja style no spin technique, but i'm trying. Any pointers that you can share?

I can answer yes that he does, with a CE Leopard. It makes the disc flip over and barrell roll much quicker. He taught me the shot for about 150 foot approaches with akward lies - I don't have a very good flick and this shot as def. helped me save a stroke here and there.

Thanks, Robert.

Thanks, Robert.



Don't use my legal name in public again.

My bad:


http://www.odsa.ca/images/mtl.jpg

http://www.odsa.ca/images/mtl.jpg



that is so worth quoting.

who is the & CO. ????????

Hey Schweb...have you ever tried using a Monster for thumbers? If so, why do you use Firebirds over them? More distance w/ the Firebirds?

They are very similar, but the Firebird is more Overstable, and it was already a primary part of my bag, no need to add another disc.

Yo Schweb, do you throw any thumber shots with understable plastic? Just wondering if there is any benefit to this.

Thanks buddy,
mc

Yes I do, most of the time with a best up firebird, but sometimes with a Champion Leopard. I use the understable discs for thumbers that I want to go straight thru tight tunnels and a little bit right.

If this is the "Ask Schweb" thread I want in on the action :D
about this no spin thumber...is the benefit distance or accuracy or both? I tried to throw some today, not to much avail, but it seemed to stay a little straighter. I am wrestling between a Predator and a Spirit. I'm more accurate with the Predator but get more distance from the Spirit. Mind you i have yet to master the ninja style no spin technique, but i'm trying. Any pointers that you can share?

The benefit is both, nut you might lose a liTTle bit of accuracy when you are trying to go for longer throws just like any throw when trying to go for more.

hey sheb do u pick your nose with your thumb?

Ther is one great benefit of a stall thumber and it isn't distance. We see it a lot in NC in our woods, but other places might not have the shot as often. Take a light hyzer, more hyzer to straight. Hard to hit that gap and then turn it up, but with the right thumber you can exaggerate the right to left motion. You drop the thumber onto its back real slow. I try to use a CFR Viper for these shots because of its stability and (lack of) speed. This looks a lot better in my head then on print. But these are the best thumbers I've seen the PRO throw.

Ther is one great benefit of a stall thumber and it isn't distance. We see it a lot in NC in our woods, but other places might not have the shot as often. Take a light hyzer, more hyzer to straight. Hard to hit that gap and then turn it up, but with the right thumber you can exaggerate the right to left motion. You drop the thumber onto its back real slow. I try to use a CFR Viper for these shots because of its stability and (lack of) speed. This looks a lot better in my head then on print. But these are the best thumbers I've seen the PRO throw.

That would be TThe Pro

hey sheb do u pick your nose with your thumb?

Only when my elbow is unavailable

I use a Venom to throw a tomahawk. I've used preds, flicks, wildcats, extreme and quarter K. But the venom by far has the most D. I max out around 370'-380' and average 350' +. Most people nearly #$*&$! themselves the first time they see me throw overhand.