I was just wondering what the average distance for a pro throw is. Sayyy on a 600ft hole that is 15ft. downhill from the tee. I've been playing for 3 years and I'd say my furthest throw was about 425ft. on a 500ft. hole. I've been getting better, but I still find it hard to believe that people can throw 800 ft. They gotta be on top of mountains or something crazy when they get these records

These are laser rangefinder measurements I made in Houston at the 2002 Pro World Championships on level, open hole #7 on the Tourney course. These are the numbers for the top 36 Open players:
Longest Drive = 477 feet
Average = 378 feet
Shortest = 300 feet
The longest throw was a roller and 14 of the 36 throws were rollers. All were righthanded backhand throws. The eventual winner, Ken Climo, threw 360 feet. It was the shortest on the top card with the longest at 408. The wind was a minimal crosswind with little impact on distance.

Distance is only one small component of a professional game and I wouldnt consider it the most important. Approach and putt are critical. Those are the shots that lower your score. It's like they say "Drive for show, putt for dough."

That makes me feel so good about my game : )

I've only been playing about 6 months & I'd say my longest throw, on level ground was around 280. I don't throw sidearm, but I got one about 290 sidearmed (I'm just not consistent enough to use it during play)
That was actual distance too. Not message board .lol. Like I'd brag about 280.
I practice in a softball field & I measured from home plate to center field. 300'. So I know my measurements are pretty accurate.
My goal this year is too throw one over the fence and I better hurry to do it before (ack) snow starts falling. = )

That doesn't mean I haven't ripped them longer though. If you know George Wilson here in Mishawaka holes 9 & 18 are very downhill. I'd say I've gotten 350-375 on those with a good throw.

One benefit of a shorter drive though is I have a pretty consistent midrange throw, often landing them within my putting range.

I don't expect you to know for sure, but did Climo seem satisfied with his drive or was he disappointed?

His drive was right down the center, so no obvious complaints. Having watched him over the years, that's his typical golf driving range and it's all you really need, even for our longer courses like Winthrop Gold. I've seen him do turnaround drives not during golf rounds that got to near 500 feet. But few players actually do that during golf rounds. Sometimes you might see Feldberg pop one that way.

Our Gold course design guidelines recommend that relatively open par 3 holes not go out past about 350. It's not that many top pros can't throw somewhat farther. However, relatively open holes in the 350-500 range usually have less scoring spread which negates their benefit for competition. In other words, if most players get 3s and just a few get 2s and 4s, the hole isn't very good to differentiate scores for that skill level.

chuck kennedy,

thanks for that piece of info there. a real measurement of real players playing on a real golf hole. i just hope that one day in the future i can throw 400' straight... but i have a looong way to go. i definitely think it can be done with lots of practice... and this inspires me to make it happen!

to the original poster... 800' shots are part luck, as far as i've heard. there's been threads talking about how those shots are big hyzer flips and if they catch the air right they can sail well past 600', and if they don't they crap out under 500'... they aren't consistent. those that throw over 500' everytime are rare (as far as i know).

It's important to distinguish between laser measured distance and golf tee sign distance. Often the lengths of disc golf holes are determined by a rolled measurement which overestimates the real distance as the crow (disc) flies. Also, throwing 500 feet on a downhill throw is not anything like throwing 500 ft on level ground...

What would 360 feet rangefinder measured on flat terrain equate to in terms of message board distance? ...500? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

:D I believe message board distance is actual distance + 50 to +100 feet.
That's why I like practicing in a softball field with a known / tape measured distance. The only thing that factors in to my practice drives is wind.
Thanks to Blakes new flight chart I know where I stand & know what discs I have the arm to throw. His chart is pretty accurate too as I can throw my Cheetah "fairway driver" further then most of my "distance drivers".
I believe everyone knows throwing downhill adds distance and that's why I don't really count those. Sure it's great to see them fly that far, but if I can't hit 350 feet on level ground then it doesn't count.

Designers use a 3:1 ratio to adjust hole lengths for elevation i.e. every 10 ft of elevation adds/subtracts 30 feet to the measured hole length. This seems to work well for holes with less than 15 feet elevation change per 100 feet. Obviously, if you have a short 120 ft hole off a 50 ft cliff, you couldn't have negative length [120-(3x50)].

I know that people claim and actually can throw farther than my 2002 data. All I can say is to do the measurements then. We could certainly use more data than a single hole.

every 10 feet of elevation change adds 30 feet regardless of the total length? or do you mean per every 100 feet... :confused:

also, i wonder if the term 'power' in Blake's chart could be misleading? Isn't it more a matter of arm speed, proper technique, or efficiency?
there are plenty of guys who would probably crush me in arm wrestling who i can outdrive...

every 10 feet of elevation change adds 30 feet regardless of the total length?



Yes, as long as the slope isn't more than 15% (15 feet per 100 feet, which is fairly steep). Most people tend to overestimate elevation changes by about double the actual unless they're experienced.

also, i wonder if the term 'power' in Blake's chart could be misleading? Isn't it more a matter of arm speed, proper technique, or efficiency?
there are plenty of guys who would probably crush me in arm wrestling who i can outdrive...



Not to answer for Blake or anything, but torque is probably the factor needed for big D.

High arm speed that is effectively transferred( "snapped") into the disc results in a lot of torque being put into a throw.

Wow, some interesting stuff. Thanks guys. I know that driving is not as big of a component as midrange and putting, especially putting. You can drive all you want but if you can't hit the average 15-20 footer then you aren't going to do well. I usually practice about 70-100 putts before I play each round and I've found that I've gotten a lot better with my putting since I started doing that. As for drives, every once in awhile I'll go to an open soccer field and on a good drive I can usually outthrow the whole field which would be what like 120 yards? so 360 feet. So I figure on level ground on a good throw I can throw anwheres from 350-375 feet. From the looks of it I need to start playin some tournys. Thanks for the info guys.

I would guess that the average distance throw for the open players are 375-400'.

a couple of things to chime in...

on some holes many of the conservative playing (but often very successful) pros will forego the big drive in favor of a 350'ish roc/midrange shot.

also, drive placement is generally more important than D in the long run if you can throw 350+. e.g. barry schultz's putting style is quite dependent upon wind factors, and he generally aims his drive to leave himself a tail wind putt whenever possible (and often succeeds in doing so).

to robj: i generally refer to power as how far someone can throw and had considered people might misinterpret that as physical strength... unfortunately, i coudln't really come up with better terminology that wouldn't be confusing vs. the range category.

steve: the factor is more tendon elasticity than arm speed that is transferred to the disc, which is the root of snap. i try to avoid using the term torque to avoid confusion with off-axis torque, which is nearly always bad unless being done purposely.

thanks for the data chuck, i was going to say ~380' if generalizing about pros and not just the top 50 or so. would be interesting to see how those numbers would be different now with the changes in disc technology since summer '02

The interesting aspect about drive distance is how average increases don't necessarily mean reachable holes should be made longer. Let's say the average drive distance for Open has gone up 10 feet since 2002 but let's make it 25 feet for this exercise.

The assumption by some designers is that all reachable holes now should be lengthened by 25 feet. However, the fallacy in this thinking is that the pro accuracies for 150, 200, 250 or 300 ft throws probably hasn't improved. If we go by the design dictate that scoring spread is important, no reachable hole lengths should be increased or the scoring spread will likely be reduced on each such that the percentage of 3s would go higher, perhaps into the unacceptable range.

The only holes that perhaps should be lengthened are 2 and 3 shot, par 4 or 5 holes. Maybe a few could be lengthened from 25-50 feet, but it would first be good to know what the scoring spread already was on the holes. Depending on how well the holes were designed originally, perhaps the longer throwing length from new technology may have made the existing hole(s) better.

This is great information. It explains why I can't get my Wraiths any farther than my Clones. Maybe I just don't generate enough power to carry the Wraith. Makes me feel a bit better.

I don't know for sure what my longest or average drive is but it's generally good enough. My game is always won or lost in approach shots and putts.

I would almost consider approach shots more important than putting, simply because if you mess up a drive, you NEED to get a good second shot otherwise your looking at BOGEY. But yes putting is also very very important.

Another interesting consideration is whether the newer higher speed drivers which increase distance may also decrease accuracy? (if you throw slightly off target they go farther: thus they go farther off target)... :confused:

Another interesting consideration is whether the newer higher speed drivers which increase distance may also decrease accuracy? (if you throw slightly off target they go farther: thus they go farther off target)... :confused:



This is a good point. On shots where my Wraith did go farther it also banked much harder to the left at the end unlike my Clone's which generally fly straight with a very mild fade. I have a really hard time getting that Wraith to go right where I want it but I'm not giving up yet.

I am really interested in the layout of the hole in Texas which Chuck did these measurements on. And also the total length, especially when Kenny would be pleased with a `350ft drive on what was considered an open hole.

I ask this because at our course, we have a long hole (712ft). It is wide open for 415 of those feet and then it gets increasingly tight for the final 300. There are only 7 of us in town that can put the disc into the ideal landing zone which is just past the first tree at 415ft. On average between the 7 of us players who can throw that far, we usually end up shy of the mark at 390ft.

I make this point because I have seen all 7 of us throw 450+ in tournaments. Granted it is on an obstacle free fairway with minimal wind. At the same time one of our local pros and I threw +450ft into a 15mph head wind during a distance contest.

So it makes me wonder if the design of the fairway used could have hampered the distance results of the pros used in the sample. Of course distance contest distance and golf distance are different, more control must be maintained in golf shots. But I wonder if the stats taken at a more open hole with out obstacles, say on a hole that was 500ft long, would produce different results?

Another consideration may be that unlike many of us -- who try to throw nearly as far as we can on our drives for holes 500 feet or longer -- if Kenny doesn't feel he will be close enough for a putt he may be quite comfortable with a 150 foot upshot (supposing for him that is a gimme). Rather than go for a 75 foot 2, he'll leave himself a 150 footer for a gimme par...? (the idea being that maybe trying to throw a drive 110% is when you might start shanking your drives, whereas at 80 or 90% you are more likely to be "money")

i am just guessing though...

Thats a good point robJ, on my home course there is a 550ft hole and I used to try and just rip the hell out of it, but usually I would end up hitting this huge tree to the right or releasing it way too late. Not that I can hit 550ft anyways, but now I just try to throw it about 350 ft and setup for a decent mid-range. Obviously if you know you can't drive the distance you might as well go for accuracy. But on holes like 18 at Elvers in Madison from the pro tee it is 500ft roughly and the basket is maybe 100ft below the tee with nothing in your way. So on holes like that you can just rip the disc to all hell. I've outdrove that hole once or twice maybe.

This is basically how i play, because i prefer to go with the shorter reliable drives the the long drives that never go where i would like them to. i know i am better withy my midranges, so i dont get upset when im 200' away from the basket. i know i can always approach and putt.

thats something ive come to realise. After my drive, whether im 250' away or 40' away dosent really matter. It will just be 1 Up and 1 Putt. of course its easyer to lay up 40' than 200, but thats no reason for me to panic. thats why i usually drive with my midranges.

Distance really doesnt matter that much. You dont need to be able to throw 800 feet to be a great golfer.There are many people i know, that are better then i am, that cant throw as far as i can. Playing the course is what matters the most. Playing your game, laying up where need be and so on. By the way, i think the average pro is around 390ish on an average drive. Im a below average pro, and my personal best recorded drive is 550. So drive dosnt mean anything, just look at my player rating :(

My thoughts....

1. Kenny told me that you only need 375 feet to win a world title.

2. There are two types of distance - pure distance and golf distance. Pure distance is just crushing as hard as possible. Golf distance is the ability to throw a Roc like 350 or a hyzer like 450. I pretty much always make finals in distance contests and things like that and have won a few - but I can only throw a Roc 290 controlled consistently (key word there). I rarely can reach a hole around 460ish but I can throw like 540. The reason is in a golf shot there is an element of control. Half the time I throw a distance shot, I flip it over really hard it goes 300 feet - now even a wide open hole with no trouble that I would want to throw full power, I'm not going to b/c I'm not gonna risk only throwing 300 with a screw up.

3. Distance is the most overrated thing in golf. If you outdrive someone by 100 feet and they make the same upshot as you do then who cares.

4. If you can make a 30 foot putt and can only throw 370, you can duece any hole under 400 and probably something longer with a 40-50 foot putt.

the only thing BIG D means is comin on here and talkin "i can throw 800 feet"
other than that distance means nothing.
one guy i know, marty peters, can throw farther than just about anyone i have ever seen. he can throw a mile with no run up. it is sick. i would always like to see him do better in tournaments. i think the farther you can throw, the more room there is for error.
its all about control and being accurate with the shot.

I was told by a golfer who played at that Worlds where Chuck was doing his measurements, about the design of the hole in question.

The fairway was really tight, with a line of trees on the right and OB on the left. So where Kenny would have been happy with a 350ft shot down the middle, I would have been thrilled.

And trust me, I know that Big D is over rated. I was playing at Riverview Park in N. Augusta last weekend and had the longest drive in my group on the big 550ft hole. (Woods on the right, OB on the left but with an 80ft wide fairway). I was probably sitting with only 100-125ft left to the basket for my second shot. However, it was an undenieable side arm shot (BH would not work). I have a terrible side arm and ended up shanking my second shot into a bush and took a 4. The same score as two other people that I out drove by over 75ft, but they had good side arms. While another guy in the group threw two perfect side arm shots for a drop in 3.

So what did Big D get me??? Nada, not even the box for the next hole.

other than that distance means nothing.



Distance is only important if your opponents can reach a hole and you cannot. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :D

I like to think of it this way. If you double your high percentage putting range (i.e. go from making 95% of putts at 15' out to 30') you've quadrupled the area you need to hit to get into that range. If you triple it (go from 10' to 30' or 15' to 45') you have an area nine times bigger you need to hit. Mathmatically it is obvious that putting is very important.

Dan Crodle is the man!!!
what's up dan? hope to see you at the fall tourney in crappy vineland.

-Scott Lewis

I was told by a golfer who played at that Worlds where Chuck was doing his measurements, about the design of the hole in question. The fairway was really tight, with a line of trees on the right and OB on the left. So where Kenny would have been happy with a 350ft shot down the middle, I would have been thrilled.




Not correct. I selected the most open and long hole with minimal left/right constraints I could find so left or right handed players wouldn't be restricted for airshots or rollers. The fairway was easily 150 feet wide out to 425 with two 25 ft trees about 20-30 feet to the right of the fairway center line about 350 feet from the tee (which is where I stood in the shade with my rangefinder). A road came in from the left and curved to narrow the fairway somewhat starting around 425 feet and perhaps came as close as 50 feet to the left of the pin as it passed along the left side of it which was at 575 or so. There a was a clump of trees about 30 feet to the right side of the pin that started about 510. Brinster's roller and Jesper's airshot were 30'-40' short of those trees.

the only thing BIG D means is comin on here and talkin "i can throw 800 feet"
other than that distance means nothing.
one guy i know, marty peters, can throw farther than just about anyone i have ever seen. he can throw a mile with no run up. it is sick. i would always like to see him do better in tournaments. i think the farther you can throw, the more room there is for error.
its all about control and being accurate with the shot.



I've seen Marty throw. He throws FAR. In the past few years I've only seen one person throw that far/maybe a little farther and that is Tyler Horne. Throwing Challengers or Buzzs when everyone else throws drivers can help those people who throw super far.

But a lot of those who throw really far have trouble throwing low shots from what I've seen. So those guys tend to shoot great on courses where they can throw far, or throw over top of obstacles. But I'd take someone who throws low finesse shots anyday on many woods courses.

I stand corrected. But I got that info from a reliable source, I guess not so much reliable now. He is a fellow course designer of yours, and lives near here.

Ok, so I would have been slightly miffed at a 350ft shot on that hole, unless it set me up for an easy second shot.

I have seen Tyler throw, and yes, he can rip them...it's my understanding he put it on the roof of one of the buildings in this picture.
http://www.onu.edu/org/discgolf/images/big18.jpg
It's been a while since I've played that course, so I'm not sure which building it was.

Dr. Disc was suffering from heatstroke and he's getting old so his memory isn't the same. Has he told you about the "silver platter" he got there? :)

Consider this, why would I take the effort to fly there on my own nickel just to make maximum drive measurements for each division on a constricted hole?

Chuck, can you give us the break down by division?

Distance really doesnt matter that much. You dont need to be able to throw 800 feet to be a great golfer.



That's good, because nobody can throw 800 feet off a tee.

But the whole "distance doesn't matter" thing is a fallacy. Look at the best pros. Yes, they can all putt. Yes, they are all very accurate. But they absolutely bomb their drives.

I got to film Brian Schweberger at this year's MSDGC while he manhandled the long, technical, difficult Maple Hill Airplanes course. After 18 holes, it was very easy to see what he has that I don't: Incredible accuracy and frightening, mind-numbing, otherworldly distance.

All the top pros at that tournament had essentially that same combo. Brinster, McCoy, Haney, Avery Jenkins ... they can all throw really far with great accuracy. Say what you want about putting, but if you can't drive, you're not going to compete with those guys.

It depends upon the course. A well designed course will offer opportunities for long throwers to gain strokes, but they may also give away strokes with loose cannons.

I loved getting to watch Dr. Rick in the 2000 Worlds. I wouldn't say he's a short thrower, but definitely not a huge gun. He made it as a 51 year old to the final 9.

Hopefully someone will emerge as the "Corey Pavin" of disc golf this year at the USDGC or Players Cup and make the lead card for the final round.

WRONG!

What place did Larry Leonard finish at that tournament? 6th. Can Avery, Schweb, and Steve outdrive him with their Roc vs. his driver? Yep. Was he right there with them? Yep. I played my 1st round there with him and Avery. I remember throwing a soft challenger on a 250-300ft uphill hole where he threw a driver. And he came up short, yet he made the putt. He missed maybe 1 or 2 putts that round(it was obvious he wasn't playing good for him, but he still putted good). Putting wins tournaments, not throwing far. And this is coming from someone who misses around 10 putts a round, and still has a 940 rating.

None of those players mentioned has a World Open Championship yet. Nate Doss might be the first bomber to have won one. Cam might have the longest arm of the others but he also putted well here in PW2001.

<table border="1"><tr><td> Longest</td><td>Shortest</td><td>Average</td><td>Div
</td></tr><tr><td>477</td><td>300</td><td>378</td><td>MPO
</td></tr><tr><td>381</td><td>276</td><td>330</td><td>MPM*
</td></tr><tr><td>393</td><td>285</td><td>348</td><td>MA1*
</td></tr><tr><td>390</td><td>279</td><td>339</td><td>MJ1-2
</td></tr><tr><td>366</td><td>282</td><td>321</td><td>MPG
</td></tr><tr><td>363</td><td>276</td><td>312</td><td>MPS
</td></tr><tr><td>363</td><td>234</td><td>298</td><td>MM1*
</td></tr><tr><td>321</td><td>231</td><td>279</td><td>FPO*
</td></tr><tr><td>324</td><td>231</td><td>281</td><td>MM2/MA2
</td></tr><tr><td>267</td><td>225</td><td>249</td><td>FPM
</td></tr><tr><td>315</td><td>171</td><td>236</td><td>FW1
</td></tr><tr><td>249</td><td>201</td><td>223</td><td>MJ3-4
</td></tr><tr><td>216</td><td>213</td><td>216</td><td>MPL
</td></tr><tr><td>213</td><td>213</td><td>213</td><td>FPS
</td></tr><tr><td>225</td><td>201</td><td>213</td><td>FJ1-2
</td></tr><tr><td>213</td><td>186</td><td>204</td><td>FW2-3
</td></tr><tr><td>183</td><td>156</td><td>171</td><td>FJ3-4
</td></tr><tr><td>135</td><td>135</td><td>135</td><td>MM3/MA3
</td></tr><tr><td> </tr></td></table>

Very interesting. Do you have the numbers for how many people were in each group?

There's a full report that's too big to put on here. Houck used to have it on his website but took it down. It's not in a form where it's ready to post without a lot of explanatory notes so what you see is all for now. Those distances in the table are only for contenders in majors. There's another chart for day-to-day distances that are appropriate for regular course design. It's available to members of our DGCD designer group. All of this information is rolled into the design guidelines in the PDGA document:
www.pdga.com/documents/2004/PDGAGuides2004.pdf (http://www.pdga.com/documents/2004/PDGAGuides2004.pdf)

I have seen Tyler throw, and yes, he can rip them...it's my understanding he put it on the roof of one of the buildings in this picture.
http://www.onu.edu/org/discgolf/images/big18.jpg
It's been a while since I've played that course, so I'm not sure which building it was.



Umm.. the building displayed is only just over 300' away. Seriously. Hell, my furthest throw for distance is about 450 and I hit the right side 75-90 feet in the air. It isn't that tough. I'm sure he has a great arm, but 18 at ONU isn't a great indicator of that. Now if he threw it OVER the athletic complex completely.........

Sorry Woj, I just remember when it happened over 2 years ago, I was impressed.

And this is coming from someone who misses around 10 putts a round, and still has a 940 rating.



So your saying if you could putt you would be tied for highest rating of all time and would be rated better then ALL of todays pros??? :confused: :eek:

Throwing far isnt everything but it sure does help to be able to have putts on most open holes 450 and under :D

And this is coming from someone who misses around 10 putts a round, and still has a 940 rating.



So your saying if you could putt you would be tied for highest rating of all time and would be rated better then ALL of todays pros??? :confused: :eek:

Throwing far isnt everything but it sure does help to be able to have putts on most open holes 450 and under :D



If I only missed 1 or 2 putts a round(similar to good pros) I would shoot 1000 golf without a doubt. I'm much better at driving than I used to be. The putting game still sucks though. It does show up every now and then, but not enough.


And I'm sure Tyler could have thrown over the building( and I say this without knowing how long the building is!).

Dr. Disc was suffering from heatstroke and he's getting old so his memory isn't the same. Has he told you about the "silver platter" he got there? :)

No, but I am sure he will now. We joke that if he actually paused to set up his shot he would forget what he is doing. He typically just walks up and throws.

Consider this, why would I take the effort to fly there on my own nickel just to make maximum drive measurements for each division on a constricted hole?

I dunno, maybe you are just weird like that? I drive 8 hours to play in a tourney on courses I never seen before. If I had the money I would go watch an event that I had to fly to.

I'm sure he could of as well..I did not see him throw, just head about it at the end of the tournament. This was 2004, at a PDGA event, so keep in mind...he wasn't attempting to throw over the building.

I would estimate the building's width at 300 feet. So... 600 feet. It is a large athletic complex with something like a weight room and two basketball courts (length wise) between where the hole is and the other side of the building. If he can keep it over 40-50 feet in the air for 600 feet, maybe a teensy less... he'd be set. Never seen him throw though so I can't say if he could or not :)

I've seen him throw at the WVO. I'm very curious as what his actual distance numbers are. I'd imagine they'd be around 575-600.

He has to be among the longest in golf distance as when he is throwing 550+ he is only using a one or two step delivery.

I was impressed with his drive on Woodshed #2 in the finals as he drove it perfectly down the center of the fairway and probably within 70' of the pin. Unfortunately I was less impressed with his upshot.(he bogeyed)

WRONG!

What place did Larry Leonard finish at that tournament? 6th. Can Avery, Schweb, and Steve outdrive him with their Roc vs. his driver? Yep. Was he right there with them? Yep. I played my 1st round there with him and Avery. I remember throwing a soft challenger on a 250-300ft uphill hole where he threw a driver. And he came up short, yet he made the putt. He missed maybe 1 or 2 putts that round(it was obvious he wasn't playing good for him, but he still putted good). Putting wins tournaments, not throwing far. And this is coming from someone who misses around 10 putts a round, and still has a 940 rating.



Not WRONG. I was wondering if anyone would bring up Larry Leonard. For one thing, he didn't win. Not real good evidence that putting wins tournaments, not throwing far. And second, Larry Leonard does throw reasonably far, just not compared to most other top pros. I almost guarantee that if his accuracy stayed the same and his distance improved, so would his scores. If his distance got worse, his scores would follow.

Here's what it comes down to: People say distance doesn't matter, and this is just plain wrong. All other things being equal, the player who can throw farther will have a better chance at winning. Period.

I've never seen the only winners of the USDGC, Barry or Kenny, competitive in the long throw across the pond at the end of event.

I saw HoF member Johhny Sias shoot last year. His rating is still close to 1000 and I can throw a challenger as far as he throws a driver.

And the MSDGC courses definitely did not favor a long thrower. Maybe you think that because you can't throw far?

And if distance is the most improtant aspect then why don't Avery or Brinster win every tournament?


When i first got into this game I thought distance was sooo important. Now that I throw far I know that putting is the most important thing. It is possible to have a 1000 rating and not throw decently far(over 400). It is impossible to have a 1000 rating and be a bad putter.

Sias is a putting machine though. I am fortunate enough to have played a few rounds with him, everytime it amazes me...he's putting from where I'm throwing more of a midrange style throw. It should also be noted that he putts over 1000 times a day, so he rarely misses within 40 feet.

It should also be noted that he putts over 1000 times a day, so he rarely misses within 40 feet.



If thats true thats amazing

Yeah, it's true....that's discipline that I wish I had. For more interesting information written by a long time friend of Johnny's look at pages 1-3 of the Spring/Summer 2005 newsletter here http://mysite.verizon.net/resohppf/id25.html

I've never seen the only winners of the USDGC, Barry or Kenny, competitive in the long throw across the pond at the end of event.



Clearly all other things were not equal between them and the other competitors. And both of those guys throw pretty far.

Here's a quote from Barry Schultz's bio in the Throw Analysis section of discgolfreview.com:

"Barry has a very smooth motion and has 500' of power."

I'm not talking about being able to throw 800 feet in the desert. And I'm definitely not saying you can win at a high level if distance is your only weapon. What I'm saying is that power is a necessary part of the balanced attack you need to compete at the top.

It should also be noted that he putts over 1000 times a day, so he rarely misses within 40 feet.



If thats true thats amazing



From what I've heard they don't just give these World Championships titles to just anyone.

He is that good.

"All other things being equal, the player who can throw farther will have a better chance at winning. Period."

or you could say, "all other things being equal, the player who can
a) putt better
b) escape from trouble better
c) throw better rollers
d) have a more positive mental attitude
will have a better chance at winning. Period."

If a course strongly favors those that routinely throw over 400ft. without any additional risk for those long drives, then in my opinion it is of poor design.

There are a few holes on The Red Hawk, site of The Players Cup (#12-#15) where players need to be able to throw a bomb or a precise roller to have a putt of 50 ft. or less for birdie, but placement matters. On 12 and 13 in particular, the longer the drive, the greater the chance of going OB. All the other holes on the course can be birdied with throws of 375 ft. or less.

Golf is a game of strategy, placement, distance, specialty shots, disc selection, narrow gaps, low ceilings, high routes, long putts, short putts, and most importantly mental toughness. Distance is important, but if it's the be-all and end-all then the game is not golf.

Larry Leonard and Johnny Sias have been mentioned in this thread as being world-class golfers that aren't huge off the tee. I've had the pleasure of playing with Mike Raley and Joel Kelly, who I'd like to add to that list.

Anyone else have candidates for the "Corey Pavin of Disc Golf" award?

And the MSDGC courses definitely did not favor a long thrower.


So the 17 strokes that separated you and Schweberger on Maple Hill Airplanes were entirely attributable to putting?

Pyramids Silver wouldn't give the longer thrower much of an advantage, although I can think of at least three holes most people can't reach from the tee. But the other three courses would all favor a long, accurate thrower over a shorter thrower with the same accuracy. In fact, I think pretty much any course would.


Maybe you think that because you can't throw far?


Maybe you're resorting to personal attacks because you have no point to make. Anyway, since you obviously seem to know, how far exactly do I throw?


And if distance is the most improtant aspect then why don't Avery or Brinster win every tournament?


Please show me where I said distance is the most important aspect.


When i first got into this game I thought distance was sooo important. Now that I throw far I know that putting is the most important thing.


So you went out and worked on distance, and consequently got much better. Now that you don't have to worry so much about distance, you've realized there are other skills you need to compete at a higher level. That doesn't mean distance isn't important. It's just not the whole picture. And I never said it was.

Look at it this way: If distance doesn't matter, why does anyone throw drivers? I mean, they're harder to control, after all.

A lot of good pros don't throw drivers often, especially when they can throw midranges 350-400ft. What will Climo be mostly throwing this week at the USDGC? Distance drivers, or Rocs?

As for 17 strokes(wow!) I would attribute quite a few of them to the last 6 holes. I threw away quite a few shots trying some crazy stuff, as it wasn't rated, and I was out of the cash already. I was only like 3 or 4 over with 6 holes to go. I think I took a 10 on #6 trying to save a 4 by going out over the wall. If I was in/near the money I would have laid up for a 5. I tried a few other goofy shots too.

Being able to throw a huge drive is totally dependent on the course. BUT, the reason I think it's important to be able to throw a far drive is because then you can be more accurate with shorter distances than with using your max throw every time. For example, if your max throw is 400ft. and your shooting on a 395ft. hole, then your most likely going to put everything into your drive and possibly lose some accuracy. Where as if you were to increase your drives about 40ft. to 440ft., then you don't have to throw as hard and can concentrate on accuracy more. I'm not saying that driving is the most important thing in the game, but it sure helps.

I agree to the extent that everyone has a point where trying to get an extra 20 ft. results in a big decrease in consistency.

On the other hand, however, I know of many big armed players that struggle when they have to throw a 280 ft. straight shot with a low ceiling.

Once again, good course design gives an advantage to controlled power, but punishes the "wild thang".

Once again, good course design gives an advantage to controlled power, but punishes the "wild thang".



I usually use the term wild thang to describe something else of mine, but I can see where you're going. :D

true. Plus those that throw far can throw super overstable discs on big hyzers to reach a 400' hole, whereas others have to throw turnover shots with distance drivers.

Chuck, I�ll have to disagree with you concerning hole #7 of the tourney course. While it is a 150 ft. wide fairway (at it�s widest point) a flipped drive is likely to hit trees and a drive that hyzers will hit the street (if it has some distance). As someone with average or slightly above average open distance, I threw about 90% power on that hole, making sure that it was straight but sacrificing a little distance in order to set up a good second shot to the hole. Another factor you need to consider when examining that hole is that the easiest upshot (for RHBH players) was from the area near the street. This allowed a hyzer approach taking the trees to the right of the basket out of play. Now if your going to try and leave your disc semi-close to the street your certainly not going to rip it. A more accurate hole to have measured probably would have been hole 6, where the street was on the left but there really weren't any obstacles to the right. I felt much more comfortable ripping a disc on this hole because if it flipped there was nothing but open field (minus one small tree) to contend with. And actually, landing way out to the right wasn�t a bad shot either.

I played in a B-tier last weekend (open division) and had some interesting observations concerning distance. Scenario 1: I was able to play with an open player who kept up with the middle of the pack until Sunday morning, when the tee-boxes moved WAY back to their longest positions. All of a sudden his 330-350 drives weren�t allowing him easy upshots and he was missing birdies that others were taking. His Sunday morning score took a beating and he dropped way back. Scenario 2: I was able to play with another open player Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning who had drives that were outdistancing the second best drive by 100 feet in some instances. However, he still in many instances took the same or worst scores on the hole because his short game did not match his distance game. And I�m not talking about the scenario�s listed earlier in the thread were a big distance thrower would be long but out of the fairway. His drives were long and perfect but he couldn�t convert.

Chuck,

I think it would be worthwhile to obtain another batch of data on the Average Pro Distance Throw. By next years Pro Worlds 2006 in Augusta, the original set of data will be four years old. Additionally, there seems to be considerable doubt as to its validity. I'm not saying that the doubt is justified, only that it exists.

Hopefully there will be a long wide open hole at Pro Worlds 2006 in Augusta to take another set of data.

I think your comment about #7 makes the point about distance for golf versus pure distance. It's quite possible that a small percentage of Open and Master players, might have had to take something off. But for the majority of players measured, they could throw all out on that hole because the OB trouble on the left was beyond 425 feet, farther than many could throw at any time. Those who who chose to throw RHBH rollers didn't have to hold back although Russell's did end up close to the road.

The two trees on the right weren't enough to impact upshots to any extent. I didn't measure a few shots that hit the trees. Some that were yanked too far right were still OK for decent but not completely open upshots. I still felt that the road on the left of #6 would cause more players to hold back than #7 where trouble started farther away.

Considering I looked at 72 holes on relatively flat, open courses and found only a few including #6 that were suitable for "wide open" driving measurements, it goes to show that wide open max power drives aren't even possible that often. Most of the time, drives less than those measured will be all that's needed or possible regardless of your power level.

I will say that where max power comes into play but is hard to quantify by any measurement is those who can throw over the top either with big hyzers or thumbers. I'm not sure how to determine those capabilities for design purposes. However those of us doing designs know it's possible and take it into consideration.

The best "proof" that any increase in length since 2002 if any hasn't made much difference is the fact that the Hole Forecaster is still accurately making scoring average predictions. Obviously length is only one factor in the equation but it is the primary factor.

At PW2006 there might be a hole that's suitable on Pete's course where I have seen the property but haven't seen the proposed layout. Riverview and Lake Olmstead don't have any suitable holes for long drive measurements. None of the holes at the new National Center will be suitable.

Now I suspect there might be a few holes at Tulsa for Am Worlds where we could do new measurements.

Riverview and Lake Olmstead don't have any suitable holes for long drive measurements. None of the holes at the new National Center will be suitable.



Yeah unless you consider a low hyzer/flip with an XL a distance throw. Except for 2 holes at Olmstead where I threw a Predator, I stuck with Buzzz's and XL's for the last tournament there. There are some long holes, but heavily guarded.


Now I suspect there might be a few holes at Tulsa for Am Worlds where we could do new measurements.



Oh yeah, I cannot wait for that one!


Is 350-400ft with a Midrange (Roc/Buzzz/Wasp) really considered far???? :confused:

not too bad for a pro

But what if your an advanced player?

A lot of good pros don't throw drivers often, especially when they can throw midranges 350-400ft.



Anyone who throws midranges 350-400 has power to spare, and can afford to dial it back a bit to get the extra accuracy. You said earlier that Larry Leonard was throwing drivers on holes where you were using your Challenger. He's making the same calculation you are, but basing it on a different skillset. Since his control is so good, he throws a driver to get the extra distance.

The wide array of successful styles you see is part of what makes this game so appealing to me. In the end, though, a balanced attack seems to win.

But what if your an advanced player?



According to PDGA guidelines, an Advanced player should be able to throw a 575-625' controlled shot with a midrange and no run-up.

i am far from an advanced player, but that sounds a little off to me. :eek:

i am far from an advanced player, but that sounds a little off to me. :eek:



I may be wrong, but I suspect the no run up statement was the joke. Everyone knows that advanced players need the run up to throw putters 800 feet, it's OPEN players who do it from a standstill.

I am a semi-pro, and my best with a putter is around 340'. And that was with a run up. I think I need to more back down to Rec with such pathetic distance.

I don't know if you could even play competitively in rec with such lousy numbers. Good luck man.

Who are you referring to?

I am a semi-pro, and my best with a putter is around 340'. And that was with a run up. I think I need to more back down to Rec with such pathetic distance.


This, and it was a joke. Ha, Ha get it?

Haha. I was going to say... By the way, got my furthest drive today with my 175g. Pro Starfire, about 475ft with a slight headwind. I'll be plenty happy when I get a 500 footer. But for now that's plenty good :D

I am a semi-pro, and my best with a putter is around 340'. And that was with a run up. I think I need to more back down to Rec with such pathetic distance.


This, and it was a joke. Ha, Ha get it?



No, I really have thrown a putter 340'. what's the joke?

No, I really have thrown a putter 340'. what's the joke?



Yeah downhill with a massive tailwind :eek:

No, I really have thrown a putter 340'. what's the joke?



Yeah downhill with a massive tailwind :eek:



Why'd you tell!

No, I really have thrown a putter 340'. what's the joke?



Yeah downhill with a massive tailwind :eek:



Why'd you tell!



Because that is the only way Pimp can throw his putter that far. #1 White Park is ~345ft long.....but it is a 15-20ft drop in elevation. :eek:

Yeah yeah I am a noodle arm. My putters only go 250ft, so I had to throw a Buzzz. :o

I've seen a semi-pro here throw putters on the first couple of holes and birdie every once and he was consistantly throwing his putter about 325ft. So I find nothing strange about 340ft. But it is pretty **** good haha.

Because that is the only way Pimp can throw his putter that far. #1 White Park is ~345ft long.....but it is a 15-20ft drop in elevation.

Yeah yeah I am a noodle arm. My putters only go 250ft, so I had to throw a Buzzz.



How about the hole at White that is like 390 downhill with the gravel road behind it??? I was the only one to get pin high and I threw my CryZtal Challenger and everyone else threw drivers :eek: Of course I missed my 25ft putt but there was a nasty headwind :D

Of course I missed my 25ft putt but there was a nasty headwind :D




Sorry Steve, but I would not consider that 10-12mph breeze we had at White the 4th round a "nasty headwind".

You missed that putt because your an Am. Definately a better Am then me, I missed about 23 25-30ft birdie putts that last day. At least now I have stopped choking when I get to the top card. So next year (2006) at the BG Am's we can do better.

Sorry Steve, but I would not consider that 10-12mph breeze we had at White the 4th round a "nasty headwind".

You missed that putt because your an Am. Definately a better Am then me, I missed about 23 25-30ft birdie putts that last day. At least now I have stopped choking when I get to the top card. So next year (2006) at the BG Am's we can do better.



There was a nasty headwind at the bottom of the hill when I was down there :mad:

If I can just shoot well at Hobson next year maybe I can break the top 5 :D

So we all know how you (Pimp) the semi-pro throws his putter down hill. How far can you throw it on level ground without a tail wind?

I'm comfortable throwing my challenger 300' straight. By comfortable I mean it will be an accurate throw, and I would not hesitate to use it during a tournament. I will throw it farther, but that is the distance I know I will at least get. And that's without turning it over at all.

Id have to agree with Luke on this one. If its an Open 300 ft hole I wont hesitate to use my putter on it. I have even been know to throw it on holes that are over 300 because I know if I hit my line it will at very least give me a putt. On tight technical holes I trust it out to about 250 or so because to get it to 300 I have to put some power behind it and I sacrifice a little bit of accuracy.

Throwing a putter >300 isnt that unusual... I am an average MA2 player and I throw a KC Aviar for approaches up to about 280' or so... I can get it out to 310' or so but I find that I'm more accurate from 280-330' if I throw a Roc. If I could only putt in tournaments....

I hear 420 alot !!!!!!! :eek: Maybe just a west coast thing !!!!! :D

I bet you could throw Hammock pretty far.

that might be a liTTle TTougher.

YOU may be a liTTle tougher to throw.

Only on Mondays

How about the hole at White that is like 390 downhill with the gravel road behind it??? I was the only one to get pin high and I threw my CryZtal Challenger and everyone else threw drivers :eek: Of course I missed my 25ft putt but there was a nasty headwind :D



wow! u must be AWESOME!!

How about the hole at White that is like 390 downhill with the gravel road behind it??? I was the only one to get pin high and I threw my CryZtal Challenger and everyone else threw drivers :eek: Of course I missed my 25ft putt but there was a nasty headwind :D



wow! u must be AWESOME!!



Quite possibly the best use of sarcasm on this discussion board. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I mean, I used a driver on that hole. But mine said Wasp - Overstable Mid Range Driver. So I must be pathetic like all the other people playing that tournament besides Mills. :D

How about the hole at White that is like 390 downhill with the gravel road behind it??? I was the only one to get pin high and I threw my CryZtal Challenger and everyone else threw drivers :eek: Of course I missed my 25ft putt but there was a nasty headwind :D



wow! u must be AWESOME!!



Quite possibly the best use of sarcasm on this discussion board. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I mean, I used a driver on that hole. But mine said Wasp - Overstable Mid Range Driver. So I must be pathetic like all the other people playing that tournament besides Mills. :D





I just threw a Teebird and parked it. No need to miss the putt or try to crank a putter as hard as I could, just for image sake. I wont lie and say I could park a 380ft hole with a putter, even in a tailwind, because it sounds unbelievable and stupid. I rarely would throw a midrange for that distance either, so I also wont say that. It doesnt matter, as most of you are full of [I'm a potty-mouth!] anyway. Go to a football field and throw and see about how far your really throwing.

I threw my Aviar 300' past on that hole. I dont get it, whats the big deal?

How about the hole at White that is like 390 downhill with the gravel road behind it??? I was the only one to get pin high and I threw my CryZtal Challenger and everyone else threw drivers :eek: Of course I missed my 25ft putt but there was a nasty headwind :D



wow! u must be AWESOME!!



Quite possibly the best use of sarcasm on this discussion board. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I mean, I used a driver on that hole. But mine said Wasp - Overstable Mid Range Driver. So I must be pathetic like all the other people playing that tournament besides Mills. :D





I just threw a Teebird and parked it. No need to miss the putt or try to crank a putter as hard as I could, just for image sake. I wont lie and say I could park a 380ft hole with a putter, even in a tailwind, because it sounds unbelievable and stupid. I rarely would throw a midrange for that distance either, so I also wont say that. It doesnt matter, as most of you are full of [I'm a potty-mouth!] anyway. Go to a football field and throw and see about how far your really throwing.



There are quite a few people who can throw thier putters really far. I have recently taken out my straight mids and replaced them with more putters because I can throw a putter farther and I do not have low ceilings in this area so height is no problem. Heck last year in Athletics I threw from one FG in between the other so it was at 360' and still in the air so i don't find it that unbelievable.

How about the hole at White that is like 390 downhill with the gravel road behind it??? I was the only one to get pin high and I threw my CryZtal Challenger and everyone else threw drivers :eek: Of course I missed my 25ft putt but there was a nasty headwind :D



wow! u must be AWESOME!!



Quite possibly the best use of sarcasm on this discussion board. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I mean, I used a driver on that hole. But mine said Wasp - Overstable Mid Range Driver. So I must be pathetic like all the other people playing that tournament besides Mills. :D





I just threw a Teebird and parked it. No need to miss the putt or try to crank a putter as hard as I could, just for image sake. I wont lie and say I could park a 380ft hole with a putter, even in a tailwind, because it sounds unbelievable and stupid. I rarely would throw a midrange for that distance either, so I also wont say that. It doesnt matter, as most of you are full of [I'm a potty-mouth!] anyway. Go to a football field and throw and see about how far your really throwing.



There are quite a few people who can throw thier putters really far. I have recently taken out my straight mids and replaced them with more putters because I can throw a putter farther and I do not have low ceilings in this area so height is no problem. Heck last year in Athletics I threw from one FG in between the other so it was at 360' and still in the air so i don't find it that unbelievable.



In my opinion (which probably doesn't matter anyhow), it doesn't matter what disc you use to get to the basket. Some people drive with their putters because it may be more predictable for them, and if you can comfortably reach the distance with a putter, that might be your best bet for many reasons. Other people don't feel nearly as comfortable throwing their putter on a 320' hole, and they probably shouldn't drive a putter in that instance. There are advantages to staying with what you are good and comfortable with, and someone who can park a 300'+ hole consistently with a putter is no better in my opinion than someone who can consistently park a 300'+ hole with a teebird.

Also, give mills a break, if he still feels a need to gloat about his ability over others, let him. We all know he tends to exaggerate and get excited easily, he's just really excited about his place in this sport.

All I have to say about millz is that I'm rated higher than he is! muhaha


wootah :o

What ??? :eek: :D "There are advantages to staying with what you are good and comfortable with, and someone who can park a 300'+ hole consistently with a putter is no better in my opinion than someone who can consistently park a 300'+ hole with a teebird." C'mon Ryan.................you like Teebirds too...................don't ya ? :D

Consistently with a mid-range disc for me. Not many hole in ones with a putter from 360 !!!!
/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I better bust out the Aerobee !!!!! :o
Just kidding !!!! :D

I threw my Aviar 300' past on that hole. I dont get it, whats the big deal?



Exactly, this hole in particular is no big deal. Yes it is 390ft if you take a wheel and go down the hill to the basket. But is nearly a 30-40ft drop in elevation I believe, you are almost looking at the top of the tree that is next to the pin. A 30-40ft drop in elevation takes 90-120ft of distance off the drive. Now is a 280-300ft putter shot anything to brag about? Nope.

It is like Ryan said, it does not matter what you threw to get it there, all that matters is that it gets there. At a tournament, during a round where I beat everyone in advanced by three strokes, and had the third best score that round even compared to the open players, one of the guys on my card asked me what I threw when I parked a 370ft hole. Another player leaned over and said to him before I could answer "it doesn't matter what he threw, he would of gotten anything there".

So to Millz and everyone in awe of him, it is the indian and not the arrow. Steve and I got the same score on that hole using different discs.

It is way to easy to make fun of Millz, anyone know where he has been lately?

You need to study your trigonometry dude.

390 = hypoteneus
30-40 = leg

Other leg is (390 ^2) - (30 or 40 ^2) = 388

You lose 2 feet!!!!!!!

It is way to easy to make fun of Millz, anyone know where he has been lately?



Practicing probably.

You need to study your trigonometry dude.

390 = hypoteneus
30-40 = leg

Other leg is (390 ^2) - (30 or 40 ^2) = 388

You lose 2 feet!!!!!!!



You've never thrown down hill have you??

Back to measuring 101!

You need to study your trigonometry dude.

390 = hypoteneus
30-40 = leg

Other leg is (390 ^2) - (30 or 40 ^2) = 388

You lose 2 feet!!!!!!!



You've never thrown down hill have you??

Back to measuring 101!



I am using an established number and estimator used by well known course designers in measuring effective lenght. Chuck Kennedy came up with the ratio 1-3 for elevation changes. While it is not always perfect, it is a good estimate and is true in most cases.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious though.

You need to study your trigonometry dude.

390 = hypoteneus
30-40 = leg

Other leg is (390 ^2) - (30 or 40 ^2) = 388

You lose 2 feet!!!!!!!


Give the kid a break! Afterall, he is from Alabama! :eek:

You need to study your trigonometry dude.

390 = hypoteneus
30-40 = leg

Other leg is (390 ^2) - (30 or 40 ^2) = 388

You lose 2 feet!!!!!!!


Give the kid a break! Afterall, he is from Alabama! :eek:



Hey man! I am highly offended. While I may unfortunately live in the state of Alabama, I am from Michigan. My wifes job brought us here, and in the next 6 months after I graduate with my MBA we will move out of this state.

your last comment may not be a good way to endear yourself to the locals /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

your last comment may not be a good way to endear yourself to the locals /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



I will move out of here in the next 4-6 months anyways.

Hey man! I am highly offended. While I may unfortunately live in the state of Alabama , I am from Michigan. My wifes job brought us here, and in the next 6 months after I graduate with my MBA we will move out of this state.



I don't think Alabama is all that bad to me!

Now, now Deano.

I never said I did not like the people I was friends with. All of you will truly be missed by me when I leave, but I will eventually see you at some NT events, maybe Pro Worlds in a few years.

Deano has witnessed me throw a teebird 420ft three times. That is because I almost hit him where he was standing that day trying to warm up. ;)

Deano has witnessed me throw a teebird 420ft three times. That is because I almost hit him where he was standing that day trying to warm up. ;)



i am glad i know more guys from Michigan than you and Mills or i might mistakenly think that all guys from Michigan brag about their D when it's really not that impressive :eek: /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Work on that accuracy! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Distance usually comes in time,accuracy and consistency is what most folks need.

Deano...

swearing deleted

Deano has witnessed me throw a teebird 420ft three times. That is because I almost hit him where he was standing that day trying to warm up. ;)



i am glad i know more guys from Michigan than you and Mills or i might mistakenly think that all guys from Michigan brag about their D when it's really not that impressive :eek: /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif




I have had lots of compliments about my "D" :eek:
/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :p

So what are you trying to say?

Deano has witnessed me throw a teebird 420ft three times. That is because I almost hit him where he was standing that day trying to warm up. ;)



i am glad i know more guys from Michigan than you and Mills or i might mistakenly think that all guys from Michigan brag about their D when it's really not that impressive :eek: /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif




I have had lots of compliments about my "D" :eek:
/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :p

So what are you trying to say?



reading the title -- just that a lot of us have heard compliments about our distance. big freaking deal.
i don't hear Sandstrom or Sinclair or Schweb or Horne brag about their D -- it speaks for itself ;)

I do have a hidden agenda posting about my distance on a "Pro Distance Throw Thread"

Here it is....

Drum roll please....


Distance does not matter, accuracy, course management, and consistency matter. I know a sponsored player who cannot throw much over 400ft on his longest throws. Like Deano said before, working on accuracy is the most important aspect of this game. That is why it is called disc golf, and not disc huck.

I know my D, is not spectacular. It was spectacular when I could break 400ft after only 3 months of playing. However now that I have been playing for almost 2 years, throwing 460max and 410avg is not that special.

Maybe someday you will be listing me with those players you mentioned just now. Or maybe I will be a career Amateur. But regardless I still hit the putting green at least 3 times a week to make myself better.

Average pro distance throw in my house...'0' ft.

your passion for the sport is appreciated. i sometimes hear people compliment my D too but i know there are guys throwing much farther and that i need to practice my putting a lot more than the almost not-at-all that i presently do.

maybe some day you'll win Open in a NT event and i'll win Masters at the same event... it never hurts to dream :D

Distance does not matter



Actually distance does matter. I can be as accurate as I wanna be, but if there's a hole that I can't reach and my opponent can, then that's another Big D. Big Disadvantage.

I find it funny that people that can throw fairly far are the people that say distance doesn't matter.

The Girls are always complimenting me on my big D.

Distance does not matter



Actually distance does matter. I can be as accurate as I wanna be, but if there's a hole that I can't reach and my opponent can, then that's another Big D. Big Disadvantage.

I find it funny that people that can throw fairly far are the people that say distance doesn't matter.


I can throw real far, and I'd say it is much more important that putting!

I do have a hidden agenda posting about my distance on a "Pro Distance Throw Thread"

Here it is....

Drum roll please....


Distance does not matter, accuracy, course management, and consistency matter. I know a sponsored player who cannot throw much over 400ft on his longest throws. Like Deano said before, working on accuracy is the most important aspect of this game. That is why it is called disc golf, and not disc huck.

I know my D, is not spectacular. It was spectacular when I could break 400ft after only 3 months of playing. However now that I have been playing for almost 2 years, throwing 460max and 410avg is not that special.

Maybe someday you will be listing me with those players you mentioned just now. Or maybe I will be a career Amateur. But regardless I still hit the putting green at least 3 times a week to make myself better.

Average pro distance throw in my house...'0' ft.



this is a great observation, I also know a sponsored player 1000+ rated who has been one of the top pros here for the last 5-8 years, he can not throw over 400, what he can do is hit sic lines and put a roc on a thread from 300 in, oh yea and hit 35-50 footers all day like butter.

I can consistantly throw well over 400 but I have never beaten him in a sanctioned event...

DISTANCE IS OVERRATED

If I drive 425 on a 450 foot hole and missed the line a little I will usually miss the 30+ footer where someone that cant hit the D will be left with a 45-55 footer and can it I still loose. Depending on the course Accuracy and putting are usualy trump to the ability to drop a bomb off the tee.

I didn't say distance was the most important, but you can't say it's not important. I don't know if you can say it's overrated anymore since it seems everyone knows accuracy and putting is important.

Anyways, I'd much rather be putting from 30' as opposed to putting from 45'-55'. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I'm making the 30 footer at a higher percentage.

Distance is everything. I can throw really far, I average 320', and max out around 350'.

I agree on the closer is better for me anyway but you have to factor accuracy in too. Lets assume that you are 99% from 10 feet 80% from 20feet and 70% from 30 feet. for the sake of argument lets say you are playing against someone who is 99% from 20 feet 80 % from 40 feet and 70% from 50 feet.

what happens is that your putting percentage breaks down like this your have landing zone and percentage are:
62sq feet for 99% your oponent 125 sq ft 99%
125 sq feet for 80% 251 sq ft for 80%
188 sq ft for 70% 314 sq ft for 70%

I think this shows that the better your putting is the less you have to rely on your accuracy, and vice versa. The Distance factor off the tee is somewhat negated when you get into scoring area. I know that I will get beaten badly on duce or die courses where average holes are 350 or less becuase I have to get into 15-20 feet to be in the 90-100% range for me, and my accuracy does not always get that done, However on a course where the average distance is 400+ I will have a much better chance more becuase I will have a shorter approach than the opponents that can not get off the tee as far. so in summary all three components of the game work in conjunction and you can overcome deficiancy in one area by beefing up others. I really do think that driving distance is overrated, look at the PGA how many majors have the distance leaders won over the years compared to the fairway and greens in reg leaders... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Distance does not matter



Actually distance does matter. I can be as accurate as I wanna be, but if there's a hole that I can't reach and my opponent can, then that's another Big D. Big Disadvantage.

I find it funny that people that can throw fairly far are the people that say distance doesn't matter.


I can throw real far, and I'd say it is much more important that putting!



I throw fairly far, but I can't make a 20 foot putt. My 949 rating is made up of rounds that probably have an average of 10 missed putts per round.

Distance is really becoming less important as course designers focus more on "golf" courses because these will often limit the ability to throw far.I would trade my accurate 450' drive for a consistent putt inside 30ft any day.

And besides, what good is throwing far on a wooded course where you need to throw a Roc 250' on a tight line?

http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=5478&year=2005&include_ratings=1#Advanced

Take a look at that, and notice the jump in round ratings. It was almost 100 points on a nice calm sunny day.

The first course was a short tight wooded course that averages maybe 250ft per hole and has a SSA near 43-44. The second course was a difficult long course where the holes average 400ft and has an SSA ~55.

This blantantly shows my weakness in short wooded tight shots. However I do possess accuracy with distance. Given a fairly open 450ft hole or less, I am putting for a duece 75% of the time. But give me a 250ft hole that only has a 6ft wide fairway and doglegs right, watch me go wack wack wack.

At the first course, distance does not matter. At the second course distance is key.

Accuracy with distance is an important aspect. At UAH, the second course, there is a 385ft hole, that hyzers over water. Total distance across water is 350ft. A buddy of mine up there, has a max throw of 375ft, there is the possibilty of him parking the hole, but just as easily shanking it right into the water trying to throw at 100% power. Where I can throw 460ft max, so throwing a 385ft shot, I can take out a wider hyzer line with a good amount of control, lower my power percentage and gain accuracy on the shot in order to putt for a birdie.

Distance only matters when you have to be accurate at it. A wide open 600ft hole will be scored the same by the guy who can throw 450, and the guy that can only throw 325.

Hey mine only jumped three points! :D

Deano...

VILIN: distance isn't everything and 350ft isn't far either.

Seems like most of us males seem to have an infatuation with length..

I can usually throw over 400 when i need to, but i'd rather be able to hit a tight fairway and park a 260foot hole than get 40 feet closer than my opponent on a 500ft hole.

-Scott Lewis

The Girls are always complimenting me on my big D.



And yet you still have a sub 950 rating. :o

VILIN: distance isn't everything and 350ft isn't far either.

Seems like most of us males seem to have an infatuation with length..

I can usually throw over 400 when i need to, but i'd rather be able to hit a tight fairway and park a 260foot hole than get 40 feet closer than my opponent on a 500ft hole.

-Scott Lewis



350' is my max with a 360� turn-around. I average like 320' out on the course. I think that's ultra far...

VILIN: distance isn't everything and 350ft isn't far either.

Seems like most of us males seem to have an infatuation with length..

I can usually throw over 400 when i need to, but i'd rather be able to hit a tight fairway and park a 260foot hole than get 40 feet closer than my opponent on a 500ft hole.

-Scott Lewis



350' is my max with a 360� turn-around. I average like 320' out on the course. I think that's ultra far...



Can you teach me to throw that far? I think I must be doing something wrong.

You have a cannon. I've seen you throw like 380'.

You have a cannon. I've seen you throw like 380'.


With a bloody Comet, no less!

I have thrown a Comet almost that far (prob was around 365'). They go so far!! I don;t understand why more people don't use them for drives.

It is a very cool feeling to step up to a tee and be throwing a Comet when everyone else has to throw dong distance turnover drivers.

when everyone else has to throw dong distance turnover drivers.



I would definitely watch out for these guy's turbo backside putts. :eek:

when everyone else has to throw dong distance turnover drivers.



I would definitely watch out for these guy's turbo backside putts. :eek:



Long distance tunover driver + turbo backside (twist) putts

You must be talking about the Grandmaster Bagger himself PDGA #033.

Don't ever brag about being ahead of him, I did that once and then he went 12 holes in a row where he parked every single one. It was nuts.

I sometimes throw good upshots from 100. :D

I have thrown a Comet almost that far (prob was around 365'). They go so far!! I don;t understand why more people don't use them for drives.

It is a very cool feeling to step up to a tee and be throwing a Comet when everyone else has to throw dong distance turnover drivers.


I step up to almost every hole and watch people throw their roc's and putters while I'm throwing my driver . . . that's also a cool feeling . . . .

All you throw is freakin drivers though. :D

hence the reason I would be stepping up to the tee with a driver when everyone else has a putter or midrange . . . and I was being sarcastic, it's NOT a good feeling :p

You have a cannon. I've seen you throw like 380'.


With a bloody Comet, no less!



You guys must be thinking of the pre- house/marriage little erik wilson. This new guy has lost distance, but gotten better at putting. It's kind of a wash.

If you both come to the Beaver State Fling, I'll donate money to you both in a distance comp. :D

You have a cannon. I've seen you throw like 380'.


With a bloody Comet, no less!



You guys must be thinking of the pre- house/marriage little erik wilson. This new guy has lost distance, but gotten better at putting. It's kind of a wash.

If you both come to the Beaver State Fling, I'll donate money to you both in a distance comp. :D


A Comet distance comp. ? :o

I don't think Dave throws them, so it wouldn't be fair for him.

I don't think Dave throws them, so it wouldn't be fair for him.


He can throw a buzzz then, although that still wouldn't be fair since they don't fly as far as a Comet.

Dave's not going to go to BSF, though, so it don't matter, it's u and me baby! I'm throwing my comet 437' now, watchout!

I don't think Dave throws them, so it wouldn't be fair for him.


He can throw a buzzz then, although that still wouldn't be fair since they don't fly as far as a Comet.

Dave's not going to go to BSF, though, so it don't matter, it's u and me baby! I'm throwing my comet 437' now, watchout!



I might go...Depending on airfare.

A Comet distance comp. ? :o



I'm in! :D

I don't think Dave throws them, so it wouldn't be fair for him.


He can throw a buzzz then, although that still wouldn't be fair since they don't fly as far as a Comet.

Dave's not going to go to BSF, though, so it don't matter, it's u and me baby! I'm throwing my comet 437' now, watchout!



I might go...Depending on airfare.


It'd be hecka cheaper if four of us drive up together!

How many days would I need to take off from work?

How many days would I need to take off from work?


Three, leave thursday, get there friday, play saturday and sunday, drive home sunday night and get there monday.

Or we could fly, it'd be about $200 each for tickets, then we have to get a rental car.

So if you are on salary at work it'd be much cheaper to drive. If you aren't on salary, it probably be cheaper to fly.

Either way, we are going to want to get one round in at each of the courses.

Dave:

You'd need four days. You're playing Open (right?) and the tourney starts friday for the big kids.

I'll post a link somewhere sometime to the BSF webpage, but for now, back to your regularly scheduled thread.

Ok, back to the topic... ;)

I just finished completing the 2005 statistics from all sanctioned distance events here in Sweden.
Cutting out the lowest results since I don't think everyone really should count as "pro" ;) ,
we have the following numbers:

Mens Open, Longest: 185.64m (609 ft) (14 of top 50 players over 500ft, 7 over 550..)
Mens Open, Average: 135.65m (445 ft) (counting top 50 of 56)

Women, Longest: 132.00m (433 ft)
Women, Average: (93.20m) (305 ft) (counting top 10 of 13)

Mens Master, Longest: 161.46m (529 ft)
Mens Master, Average: 122.9m (403 ft) (counting top 12 of 15)

Juniors (-18), Longest: 172.00m (564 ft)
Juniors (-18), Average: 146.15m (479 ft) (counting top 10 of 13)

Girl Juniors (-15), Longest: 118.00m (387 ft)
Girl Juniors (-15), Average: 84.20m (276 ft) (counting top 5 of 7)

So there it is, average swedish male pro distance throw is 445ft :D

Note that this is pure downwind distance on flat open ground at, or near, sea level. As many have stated before,
not to confuse with golf D on the course, but I think the stats are interesting anyway. Since
these events mostly were part of flying disc overall tournaments, there are many players who
only play disc golf that hasn't entered a distance event during the year. Many of the top cannons are in,
but I'm absolutely positive the average should increase given more golfers attended.
Each player got to count his/hers longest throw of the season for these statistics. I didn't
break it down into calculating all players every result. Yeah, I know, I'm a lazy bum... ;)

are the stats for girls under 15 really supposed to say under 18 :confused:

looks like there are some young Swedish distance boomers in both genders. Is Sandstrom Swedish?

also, what is your favorite disc to use when going for D?

are the stats for s under 15 really supposed to say under 18 :confused:

looks like their are some young Swedish distance boomers in both genders. Is Sandstrom Swedish? :eek: I hear he has a tatoo of himself , on his arm , throwing a disc. :o

also, what is your favorite disc to use when going for D?

Is Sandstrom Swedish?

:eek: I hear he has a tatoo of himself , on his arm , throwing a disc. :o



:eek: does he have a tattoo on the other arm showing him making the required one-handed catch to set the www.wfdf.org (http://www.wfdf.org/index.php?page=records/index.htm#fieldevents)
World Record of 94 meters for ThrowRunCatch with an MTA weight Condor? :eek:

edit:
Distance
Outdoor Distance:
Open: 250.00 m Christian Sandstrom (SWE) 4/26/02 El Mirage, CA

Throw, Run &amp; Catch (TRC)
Outdoor TRC:
Open: 94.00 m Christian Sandstrom (SWE) 7/9/03 Santa Cruz, CA
www.wfdf.org (http://www.wfdf.org/index.php?page=records/index.htm#fieldevents)

are the stats for girls under 15 really supposed to say under 18 :confused:


Nope, that's not a typo...
Actually, there were no girls aged 16-18 that entered any Swedish distance competitions last year. :confused:
so all results in the girl junior division was by younger players.

It's really great to see the kids throwing far, skinny and small, but hey, can they throw a disc!

Me, I used Pro Starfires 168-170g for distance events last year, will probably get a distance set of five 170g Pro Wraiths to experiment with to next season. Before 2005 I've used 9x KC Teebirds since they were released. My own best result in 2005 was 155m (508ft), which placed me 2nd in the master division top ten list.

okay, looks like some good discers at your latitude :D did Sandstrom participate?

thanks in part to your advice about keeping the nose down (i used to drop my back shoulder like i was throwing a lid and i didn't have the right wrist angle either) i was laser measured at 495ft last year with a (171g) Pro Orc, but it wasn't a formal competition.
now i am trying to learn to putt :eek:

Yes, Christian Sandstr�m is Swedish, and yes he's got a nice big tattoo. He got it made after winning the WFDF Overall Worlds the first time in 2001 (He also won the title in 2003 and 2005 making it three in a row.)

There's a pic of his tattoo at the top of the page http://www.algonet.se/~area46/svenska/nyheter/n020429.shtml

Actually Christian was only second on the swedish distance list of 2005 with his best result of 183m (just over 600ft). Best result was by Skellefte� player (you know those guys up at latitude 64 ;) ) Nils Lindqvist. But Christian did win the Swedish Championships.

He has since then also ventured into fitness competitions, see a picture at http://www.muscle.se/gallery/gal_data/dc05/afherr_p180/_smal_DC05_AF_HerrL_1595.jpg
(Christian to the far left), to see what it really takes to throw 800ft ;)

Glad to hear you improved your D aviarX. Putting is probably more valuable, but distance is definitely more fun!

Yes, Christian Sandstr�m is Swedish, and yes he's got a nice big tattoo. He got it made after winning the WFDF Overall Worlds the first time in 2001 (He also won the title in 2003 and 2005 making it three in a row.)

There's a pic of his tattoo at the top of the page http://www.algonet.se/~area46/svenska/nyheter/n020429.shtml

Actually Christian was only second on the swedish distance list of 2005 with his best result of 183m (just over 600ft). Best result was by Skellefte� player (you know those guys up at latitude 64 ;) ) Nils Lindqvist. But Christian did win the Swedish Championships.

He has since then also ventured into fitness competitions, see a picture at http://www.muscle.se/gallery/gal_data/dc05/afherr_p180/_smal_DC05_AF_HerrL_1595.jpg
(Christian to the far left), to see what it really takes to throw 800ft ;)

Glad to hear you improved your D aviarX. Putting is probably more valuable, but distance is definitely more fun!



thanks for the link -- i remember you shared the SCF page from area 46 and it was really good (and i could read it to --
it was in english :D )

was Birgitta participating too in your stats? (i believe she too is Swedish?)

yeah, distance and especially MTA are so much fun it's almost surreal :D

He has since then also ventured into fitness competitions, see a picture at http://www.muscle.se/gallery/gal_data/dc05/afherr_p180/_smal_DC05_AF_HerrL_1595.jpg
(Christian to the far left), to see what it really takes to throw 800ft ;)



That's my problem, not enough time in the tanning booth.

LOL i hope that is lotion that makes you look tan -- aren't tanning booths carcinogenic?

Seen something like that in the James Bond movie " Goldfinger".

thanks for the link -- i remember you shared the SCF page from area 46 and it was really good (and i could read it to -- it was in english :D )

was Birgitta participating too in your stats? (i believe she too is Swedish?)



Rob, so far I have the news sections in swedish only, too much work to translate everything. All resources exists in an english version though. Choose your language at the new domain main page www.area46.se (http://www.area46.se)
I'm also in the process of a major rework of the whole site, which I hope will be done 'til the 2006 season starts off for real.

Birgitta is certainly Swedish, but she did not enter any distance competitions. In the early to mid-season she concentrated on golf and her "civil" business, and in the autumn medical reasons hindered her participating. I think she's definitely good for throws around 400 ft in distance competition...

holy s**t ...is that chick wearing a bra...haha....whatever course that is...I'm there!



Looks a little too old to me :)

Sweden Rocs :D

....whatever course that is...I'm there!


You're welcome to Sweden :D
The Course is J�rva Disc Golf Park in northern Stockholm. The "chick" is my girlfriend Kicki Dahlstr�m, not always golfing in bikini top though, but it was exceptionally hot that day ;)

Ive been playing for 3 years on the east coast in the flat land. i average around 450 to 475 average distance and max out at about 510. But like someone else said distance is a key asset but you really want to key in on putting thats your most important shot. why get on green in one if your putting at it twice.

If getting to 800' means I have to start working out, then I'm joining a gym tomorrow. ;)

I average around 400 feet, I've maxed at 450' forehand, and 415' sidearm. It's taken me quite some time to get there, so I wonder if progress after this point is slower or faster. I'm practicing my turnaround drive, concentrating on just getting a controlled drive out of it for now.

The big question:

Does it take longer to get to the initial 450 feet mark, or to get from 450' to 600'+ ?

If getting to 800' means I have to start working out, then I'm joining a gym tomorrow. ;)

I average around 400 feet, I've maxed at 450' forehand, and 415' sidearm. It's taken me quite some time to get there, so I wonder if progress after this point is slower or faster. I'm practicing my turnaround drive, concentrating on just getting a controlled drive out of it for now.

The big question:

Does it take longer to get to the initial 450 feet mark, or to get from 450' to 600'+ ?



:eek: 450 - 600 ' is crank'n the plastic. Getting to 450 maybe just correct technique. 600 is the same , but steroids / mutant golf !!!!! ;)

Yea, I agree . . . almost anyone has the ability to get to 450' it just takes practice and good form, but to go from 450' to 600' you have to have something else going for you, not everyone can get there, no matter how much you practice.

I average around 400 feet, I've maxed at 450' forehand, and 415' sidearm.



FYI, forehand and sidearm are the same thing.

450' is all you need. If you can throw 500-600 thats just dandy, but you better make that 20 footer even if you do somehow park the hole.

Yea, I agree . . . almost anyone has the ability to get to 450' it just takes practice and good form, but to go from 450' to 600' you have to have something else going for you, not everyone can get there, no matter how much you practice.



Metal Firebirds?

FYI, forehand and sidearm are the same thing.



I meant backhand, not forehand.