Doping and Disc Golf (and all disc sports for that matter)

It has been a hotly debated topic for the past 2 years in WFDF [World Flying Disc Federation], as WFDF is a signatore to the WADA code. As the sport of disc golf grows internationally, the issue of doping has become a valid topic for discussion. Our Ultimate brethren are dealing with the issue as well.

Where this could come into play in the future is at World Championship events, especially hosted overseas; also it definitely will come into play at any future World Games competition.

The question is: "Is the PDGA membership ready for the possible implementation and ramifications of a doping control program at its Pro, Am and Jr World Championships" If so, how will it affect attendence, results, host availability, etc.? If not, what do we need to do if we do need to implement? Or is it the overwhelming consensus that we don't want to comply with WADA?

An open discussion to gauge both domestic and international viewpoints. Please keep the wild, off topic posts to some other forum.

Is the PDGA a part of the WFDF, or is it a separate organization ?

Huh, i don't know if the PDGA is ready for that.

Nez, What i do know is that i ran into one of your old GUTS friends. His name is Mark, i think, and he's from the Queen's City flyers? Make sense?

He told me to tell you and Kay hi. He also said that he reads your articles in the Guts literature that he still receives. Very cool guy, but i already knew that since he was a friend of yours.

john

Is marijuana a banned substance under the WADA thing? If it is you will have a hard time with it for disc golf. Just walking the halls of the host hotel at am worlds this year was probably enough for you to fail a drug test. And that was pretty much any time of the day or night.

Let's start immediate testing. Then I'll be able to finish better in events. But will there be anyone left to play with?

i could still play, a hookie vs a hoo

Best thread ever.

Bring it on!

Yes, marijuana is banned under WADA regs. But, you can get all loaded up on Vicodin as that is allowed. Pseudo-ephedrine (Sudafed and stuff) has recently been allowed, but if you let it metabolize in your body, you can be found guilty of having norpseudo-ephedrine (what it metabolizes into) in your blood. I think it's all pretty screwy. And if we start testing our numbers WILL plummet. I think it'd be suicide for our sport.

what a stupid thread; I think this would probably put an end to the sport as we know it. Since we have reached a peak in terms of current members I think that everyone should just let things keep flowing.

Everyone seems to want the sport to grow. This is part of growing.

And how is this part of the sport growing? I really dont care if someone smokes while on my card or not, I never have, however the majority of the disc golf population are smokers or so it seems. So who would pay for these tests? The reason why golf has such high prize values is because of corporate sponsorship not for any other reason. Thats why their hole in one prize is a brand new Volvo or Chrysler and not 1,000 dollars.

I think alot of people do smoke, however, I think that should be done in your own time, and not during a PDGA tournament. It is, technically, illegal and I think we are doing ourselves a disfavor by making it look like a stoner sport. It takes a lot of talent and skill, and if you are serious about your game, don't do it on the course. I don't think we should be testing, however, if someone gets caught with paraphernalia dq them.If you don't want to get dq'ed, don't bring it on the course.

If the PDGA doesn't take some sort of measures to make sure its top tournaments aren't tainted, I do believe there is a ceiling that we have almost hit. I mean, I guess you could go out and try and get sponsorship from a glass blower or a paper company.

The top tournaments will not receive large sponsorship from outside disc golf until the stoner image is cleaned up a bit.

For recreational/joe disc golf, the idea of drug testing will not fly. If the PDGA tried to institute a policy for all tournaments along the lines of WADA regulations, the PDGA would disappear. The testing is expensive, intruisive, and divisive.

However, I would argue the same for the pot smokers that feel as though they need to light up during the rounds or in the parking lot between rounds. If what Rhett says is true about the AM Worlds hotel, I am disgusted and disturbed. People smoking out in the host hotel? A disgrace.

I know there are other sports that are more mainstream now that do have a similar sort of pot culture, but there are examples of sports that did have a pot culture and have cleaned up. I will point to snowboarding. Ross Powers being stripped of a gold medal I am sure had an impact on pot use among top riders. I know it had no effect on how much pot recreational riders use, but I think it sure cleaned up the overall image of the sport.

I think we are doing ourselves a disfavor by making it look like a stoner sport.




BINGO!!!

One thing that also needs to happen is Wholesalers/Manufacturers need to QUIT selling to HEAD SHOPS!

The top tournaments will not receive large sponsorship from outside disc golf until the stoner image is cleaned up a bit.



Based on what data?




If what Rhett says is true about the AM Worlds hotel, I am disgusted and disturbed. People smoking out in the host hotel? A disgrace.



I spent the entire week in the host hotel and didn't observe any smoking or smell any pot, anywhere, host hotel, course etc.

I spent the entire week in the host hotel and didn't observe any smoking or smell any pot, anywhere, host hotel, course etc.


I didn't observe any of it, but it was thick like a broccoli fart all week long everywhere that I went in the hotel. Okay, not everywhere. I didn't smell it in the main lodge or the restaurant. But up and down the hallways pretty much everytime I walked anywhere. People were "being discreet" in their rooms, I guess.

we don't even have the flying car's they said we'd have by the year 2000 so what make you think this sport will ever grow any further than it has

i would guess that 75% of all disc golfers get high ( smoke pot ) i would even guess that that includes some of the top player's in our sport,i would even go as far as saying that probably includes some of the people who run the pdga.it would be my guess that those poeple don't see anything wrong with smoking pot and don't plan on quiting anytime soon.so untill these people from the top on down are ready to take a hard stance on this issue i don't see this sport going to much further than it already has.

i say we have two choices on the table:

1) we can rage against the machine

2) we can grow up and put aside whats holding us back

everyone's talking the talk but are we ready to walk the walk ?

i dont smoke anymore because of the threat of a random test at the job. i wish i could smoke. and if the company policy changes or i find a new job that is less repressive, you can bet i will be smoking again. but not on the course.

if however this sport officially empowers itself with the "right" to test me, the only thing i'm gonna be pissing on is my membership card. lets face it, we 're playing for plastic and chump change. if i was playing for a million bux it would be different.

and its NOT a case of "stop smoking and the money will come". thats utter nonsense.

just keep it clean on the course and the money will come.

Nice pat. :D

I'm really not convinced that the money will ever come. But that's okay, too.

It probably won't come. We'll continue to play for each other's money until there is more corporate incentive. There won't be corporate money until there is corporate incentive.

If that 75% of all disc golfers smoke pot stat is true, I would be very surprised. Maybe in your region that might be true, but in other regions you would be hard pressed to find 25% of all disc golfers getting high.

If this truly is the overall view of the sport: people getting high, it's okay everyone's doing it, people in the PDGA office smoke pot, top pros smoke pot...why would anyone really want to sponsor an event? Sponsoring an event is the same as sponsoring someone's drug habit. Think about it.

I don't think the PDGA should test players in all tournaments, but why not a few of the top major tournaments? Or, if they don't test, why not institute a hard line drug policy?

I guess I am lucky to live in a conservative area. If I had started playing disc golf in an area that was a pot smoking haven, I probably never would've started playing. I really don't feel like being associated with pot smokers. If I move to an area that does have a problem with people smoking pot on the course, I might set aside my discs until I can move somewhere else. I will not pass judgement on people that smoke pot. But, I will not hang out with people or have my name associated with a sport that condones pot smoking.

It has been a hotly debated topic for the past 2 years in WFDF [World Flying Disc Federation], as WFDF is a signatore to the WADA code.



Really, how can you take an organization seriously who's leader is named Dick Pound? :)

I think that may have been the first time in mess bored history when Pat, Rhett and My-Hero may have all been right at the same time. :)

If that 75% of all disc golfers smoke pot stat is true, I would be very surprised. Maybe in your region that might be true, but in other regions you would be hard pressed to find 25% of all disc golfers getting high. [QUOTE]
<font color="blue"> as someone who used to travel all over the usa in the late 90's and early 2000's to play tourniments i can only speak about what i saw first hand</font>
[QUOTE]


If this truly is the overall view of the sport: people getting high, it's okay everyone's doing it, people in the PDGA office smoke pot, top pros smoke pot...why would anyone really want to sponsor an event? Sponsoring an event is the same as sponsoring someone's drug habit. Think about it. [QUOTE]

<font color="blue"> i don't see any big name sponser's stepping up to sponser discgolf tourny's on a regular basis, i.e. Redbull,Nike,Footlocker,Starbucks and i don't see networks like ESPN or ABC or Foxsports lining up to put discgolf on TV either /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font>

[QUOTE]
I don't think the PDGA should test players in all tournaments, but why not a few of the top major tournaments? Or, if they don't test, why not institute a hard line drug policy? [QUOTE]
<font color="blue"> i don't either because it would shut down discgolf as we know it. ;) </font>

[QUOTE]
I guess I am lucky to live in a conservative area. If I had started playing disc golf in an area that was a pot smoking haven, I probably never would've started playing. I really don't feel like being associated with pot smokers. If I move to an area that does have a problem with people smoking pot on the course, I might set aside my discs until I can move somewhere else. I will not pass judgement on people that smoke pot. But, I will not hang out with people or have my name associated with a sport that condones pot smoking.

<font color="blue"> i wish i could say the same you are truely lucky,on any given day i can go to a local course and find a group of discgolfer's hanging out in the parking lot openly getting high and drinking beer :mad::(

No real comment on this thread (my sig line should speak for itself), but I would like to read the thoughts of True North.

It's pretty funny that your tag line is "....anti-dopin" and your location is a Brave New World. Isn't that the place where the government controls everything, brain washes everyone, and a drug called Soma is used to keep the population suppressed?

No real comment on this thread (my sig line should speak for itself), but I would like to read the thoughts of True North.



Isn't it Perfect North? and doesn't he sound like Caker?

Let's adopt the NFL or NBA policies on this subject.

My bad. PERFECT_NORTH is the poster, True North is a punk band.

Now that that is cleared up, WADA already has a penalty in place for athletes who test positive for performance-enhancing drugs: a 2-year ban for the first offense and a lifetime ban thereafter.

Yeah, that should go over well.

"Here's your first place A tier payout of $50. It would have been $1250, but it cost us $300 per person for the drug test that we won't have the results of for 5 weeks. If we find out that you tested positive we will request our $50 back. Thank you."

most people I know play disc golf because they can get away and smoke freely. Heck didn't golf arrive because of the freestylers needed to go into the woods for a bit to take a break. Throwing at a tree made it look like you were doing something else. Testing would be silly. Perhaps we should all quit being so scared and take the lead in legalizing it in our country. that would make the most sense to me. Its a tough call when nearly everyone from the top of the pdga down to the local kid at the course all pretty much partake. Higher Flyers Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If we had this in effect, there would be no more World Champions!!! Look back to 1990, who has won the title since who doesn't smoke???? Maybe Nate, but I don't know him at all. Im just wondering when we will have a non-stoner World Champion.

if we had this in effect, who would our World Champions be???????

Yeah, that should go over well.

"Here's your first place A tier payout of $50. It would have been $1250, but it cost us $300 per person for the drug test that we won't have the results of for 5 weeks. If we find out that you tested positive we will request our $50 back. Thank you."



thats exactly what would happen too, low turnouts and low payouts. thats my only fear, it sucks to play an ADV tournament with only 2 cards :(. I played a B-tier this year with only 9 players in ADV. There is already a rule in place governing the use of alcohol and drugs during tournaments so whats the big fuss about noone is condoning the use of drugs or alcohol on the course. We just dont want to see attendance drop to nothing; and if you really are going to proceed with this please rename the agency - World Anti-Doping Agency - what a joke :D:D:D.

I don't think you can get disc golf into the World Games or the Olympics without signing on to this thing.

That's part of the dream of "making disc golf bigger". There's a downside to bigger, too.

Maybe a prudent course of action would be testing for NTs and Majors only. I don't think any other sport tests at all level of competition. Just at the elite level, and that's the NT and Majors for us.

and thats your opinion and you are only 1 of over 9,000 members; I would rather see disc golf on about half the scale and payout of ball golf.

Lets take a vote who is really playing this sport to get into the olympics?

my .02

not me but i agree with rhett so thats 2 of 9000 :o:D

correct me if I am wrong but I dont think that ball golf is at the Olympics so why would you want Disc golf to be.In ball golf people play for each others money and so should we, in time we will get sponsorship. Its kinda funny I talked to a marketing rep from Nike at a restaurant in Austin about 6 months ago and she said that she would be very interested in sponsoring or supporting but that no one has ever contacted her.

I actually don't mind where we're at, as long as we keep certain things off the course during sanctioned tourney play.

There are a lot of people who complain about "only playing for each other's entry fees". I don't think we'll get past that level without some major growing pains. "Half the size of ball golf" would be humongous change in size, complete with many major changes to how things currently are.

Getting that kind of money into the payout won't help me any, because I ain't anywhere good enough at this game to cash in on that. It won't hurt me in the short run either, because I don't have lifestyle issues that would come to light from testing. In the long run it would hurt, because I wouldn't be able to qualify to play in the best tourneys or Worlds if we get really big. But that's okay.

So the bottom line for me personally is that it doesn't matter one way or another. But for those who want big money.....that will include big changes.

Is marijuana a banned substance under the WADA thing? If it is you will have a hard time with it for disc golf. Just walking the halls of the host hotel at am worlds this year was probably enough for you to fail a drug test. And that was pretty much any time of the day or night.



So that's why I was feeling funny. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I don't have lifestyle issues that would come to light from testing.

neither do I :confused:; you are missing the big picture here. Its so hard to talk to closed minded people, the main reason why this sport hasnt got near the size of skateboarding. And I watched skateboarding grow from nothing to something.

my last post on this thread.

if we had this in effect, who would our World Champions be???????

Hopefully me. Wait does CrAcK count? If so Not me. :D

What's the big picture? What's the "closed mind" thing you make vague reference to and then say you will not post anymore about ?

Play for each other's entry fees until the sponsorship somehow arrives? I'm okay with that. That's what we've been doing all along. But there sure are a lot folks who yell and scream at "the PDGA" because all we do is play for each other's entry fees.

I don't have lifestyle issues that would come to light from testing.

neither do I :confused:; you are missing the big picture here. Its so hard to talk to closed minded people, the main reason why this sport hasnt got near the size of skateboarding. And I watched skateboarding grow from nothing to something.

my last post on this thread.


i don't think rhett ever said you have lifestyle issue's but there are some people who make a living playing discgolf that do.

you obviously don't know rhett if you did you wouldn't have called him close minded,rhett and his family have done more for our sport locally as far as growth and change than anyone i now

rhett i think he's refer to the fact he made in his last post (my last post on this thread. ) about the nike lady in marketing

if we had this in effect, who would our World Champions be???????



I'm almost 100% sure it'd be Nate Doss.

if we had this in effect, who would our World Champions be???????



I'm almost 100% sure it'd be Nate Doss.


I agree 100%.

I don't have lifestyle issues that would come to light from testing.

neither do I :confused:; you are missing the big picture here. Its so hard to talk to closed minded people, the main reason why this sport hasnt got near the size of skateboarding. And I watched skateboarding grow from nothing to something.

my last post on this thread.


i don't think rhett ever said you have lifestyle issue's but there are some people who make a living playing discgolf that do.

you obviously don't know rhett if you did you wouldn't have called him close minded,rhett and his family have done more for our sport locally as far as growth and change than anyone i now

rhett i think he's refer to the fact he made in his last post (my last post on this thread. ) about the nike lady in marketing




your right I dont know Rhett, nor was I directly pointing the finger at him,nor do I have anything against him.We were merely discussing the topic, this is a discussion board.Like I have said in just about every post, I just think that it would hurt attendance. That pretty much sums it up.

tru dat ,attendance would most certinly drop.i don't think anyone has anything to worry about thou because the pdga doesn't have the resorces to incorperate such a move as that.
have a great weekend ;)

From the �Disc Golf in Sweden 2004� DGWN Winter 2005 article by Peter Henriksson:

�The Swedish Frisbeesport Federation has been a recognized member of the Swedish Federation of Sports since 1983 and has always followed all national guidelines, regarding performance enhancing drugs, i.e. doping. During the summer WFDF also adopted the WADA (World Anti Doping Agency) code, which I feel is a big step forward for the general acceptance of our sport. I don�t know if the WFDF decision actually was the reason, but during the 2004 National Overall Championships, we got an unannounced visit from the Swedish branch of the Anti Doping Agency, and some selected flying disc players were in fact tested for illegal substances. As far as I know, this was the first doping test ever for individual flying disc sports worldwide. Of course, all tests proved negative.�

From the same DGWN Winter issue, �Getting Closer to the Future, A Report on German Disc Golf� by Frank Neitzel:

�The governing body of German disc golf is the disc golf branch of the Deutscher Frisbeesport Verband (DFV), a member of the WFDF.�

So it appears Swedish and German disc golfers are leading the way.

"leading the way" down the path of conformity and repression.

steroids and other performance enhancers have no place in this or any sport. but plants that God Himself gave us?

"leading the way" down the path of conformity and repression.

steroids and other performance enhancers have no place in this or any sport. but plants that God Himself gave us?



Are you sure that He's a He?

no, but i was afraid that if i said "It" i would pis someone off :D

I don't have lifestyle issues that would come to light from testing.

neither do I :confused:; you are missing the big picture here. Its so hard to talk to closed minded people, the main reason why this sport hasnt got near the size of skateboarding. And I watched skateboarding grow from nothing to something.

my last post on this thread.


i don't think rhett ever said you have lifestyle issue's but there are some people who make a living playing discgolf that do.

you obviously don't know rhett if you did you wouldn't have called him close minded,rhett and his family have done more for our sport locally as far as growth and change than anyone i now

rhett i think he's refer to the fact he made in his last post (my last post on this thread. ) about the nike lady in marketing




your right I dont know Rhett, nor was I directly pointing the finger at him,nor do I have anything against him.We were merely discussing the topic, this is a discussion board.Like I have said in just about every post, I just think that it would hurt attendance. That pretty much sums it up.



Irony.

"leading the way" down the path of conformity and repression.

steroids and other performance enhancers have no place in this or any sport. but plants that God Himself gave us?



Are you sure that He's a He?




Don't change the subject :{

BLAHBLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

lmao :D:D:D:D. About time some of my fellow Hill Country golfers spoke up.I think that these bitter fellas need to take up Horseshoes,Washers, Badminton, or some other sport. It'd be hard to hurt the attendance of those sport,leave our sport that we love alone.

W A D A Joke :D:D:D

"leading the way" down the path of conformity and repression.

steroids and other performance enhancers have no place in this or any sport. but plants that God Himself gave us?


Technically, God gave us the stuff to make steroids and the mental capacity and physical ability to make them. God also gave us the mental capacity to Choose to use them.
I doubt any disc golfers use steroids. And if some do, that's retarded and counterproductive. As far as pot, its already illegal, so why make it double illegal?
I have never understood this, let's say an NFL player tests positive for marijuana. He gets suspended. Therefore, our laws mean nothing.
If an NFL player kills someone, he gets high priced lawyers to speak lawspeak and get him acquitted. No suspension.

So here's what the NFL,NBA,WADA,etc. is saying. Break anyone else's laws, and that's ok, break our laws and you're suspended. IE- Our laws superseed everyone else's laws.

If we conform to WADA guidelines, we are just introducing another setback to our sport. There are already alot of people [I'm a potty-mouth!] at the PDGA. There are alot of people [I'm a potty-mouth!] off at disc golf manufacturers, too. Why should we introduce on more thing to [I'm a potty-mouth!] people off? It won't affect me either way.
I disagree with the PDGA alot, but I'm still 100% committed because we have to be to get anywhere. I disagree with the presidents, all of them, whoever it is, but I support them 100%, because I'm an american and he is our leader. I supported bush #1, clinton, bush #2, and I will support the next one because I am proud of my country even when they start a war, even when the pres gets a BJ.
The point is if we want to crash other things like world games, olympics, etc. we have to conform to there rules. If we don't want to get into those events, then our sport won't grow. Either way, its fine with me, I'll still be out at the course on saturday because I love to play.

Some very interesting posts and thoughts for sure on this subject. Let me provide a couple clarifications:

- In the scenerio that I started the thread, the application of the WADA code rules would only realistically apply to the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS, not the remainder of the PDGA tour. Many of the rest of the disc golf world is required by their national sports associations (under which their national disc golf associations are formed) to conform to WADA code. We the N. Americans are realistically the only competitive disc golfers not presently conforming.

- Any international disc golf competitions sanctioned by WFDF, such as world championships, may require WADA code compliance. The rest of the int'l disc golf community is clamoring for legitimacy of the disc golf world championships, which includes recognition by WFDF as the recognized governing body for disc sports by the GAISF and IGWA, includes holding the world championships in places other than the USA, and includes reformatting the qualification stds.

So the original question again: ARE WE READY TO HAVE THE PDGA PRO/AM/JR WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS BE SUBJECT TO WADA TESTING? Not the remainder of the PDGA tour, etc. etc.

Also, if someone out there has LEGITIMATE qualifications and expertise in the area of WADA code and compliance, please PM me.

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/list_2005.pdf

very interesting last paragraph. it could be interpreted as an escape clause for casual use of innocuous substances such as cannabis and alcohol. after all, smoking with your friends at the christmas party could give you a dirty test in mid-january, but obviously the substance had zero effect on performance.

IF a statement was offered by the WADA that clarified how they differentiate "In-competition" results for substances with long term positive tests, i would be far more inclined to support becoming a signatory.

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/list_2005.pdf

very interesting last paragraph. it could be interpreted as an escape clause for casual use of innocuous substances such as cannabis and alcohol. after all, smoking with your friends at the christmas party could give you a dirty test in mid-january, but obviously the substance had zero effect on performance.

IF a statement was offered by the WADA that clarified how they differentiate "In-competition" results for substances with long term positive tests, i would be far more inclined to support becoming a signatory.


HAHA! Alcohol is not prohibited in competition for swimming, chess, bobsledding or SHOOTING! LMAO!
Timmy don't use that bow and arrow, you're drunk! Here, take this rifle! Now we're legal.
Drunk bobsledding would be awesome. Drunk diving, YES! CANNONBALL!

We can have drunk people shooting guns, but i'll be damned if we're gonna let those snowboarders get high! This is the olympics for God's sake.

We can have drunk people shooting guns, but i'll be damned if we're gonna let those snowboarders get high! This is the olympics for God's sake.



Sounds more like Texas...

We're one of several sports (running, tennis, and ?) that has divisions at Worlds for ages into the 80s. Do any of our geriatric drugs show up as WADA problem substances? Cholesterol control, heart medications and some might feel Ibuprofen might be performance enhancing, and in fact, some might not be able to play at all without it.

WADA testing focuses on drugs that tend to be used to increase strength by building muscle mass, blood boosting drugs that increase endurance by increasing the amount of ozygen that can be carried to the muscles, non-drug methods that increase the blood supply to the same effect, some stimulants improve mental focus, those beta-2 agonists increase oxygen flow for asthmatics but can be used to enhance athletic performance. I may have missed something but who's counting ? And the only one that is currently of interest here, as there isn't enough cash in the sport to justify the dangerous nature of much less pay for the expensive performance enhancing varieties is the long list of typically illegal, recreational substances.

Use of drugs not specifically banned that can be justifed by prescription from a physician are not included (heart medications).

Ibuprofen, cough medicines that don't contain prohibited substances, cigarettes, etc. are yours to enjoy.

Just what we need . . . more money into the pockets of doctors and lawyers - oh well.

WADA testing focuses on drugs that tend to be used to increase strength by building muscle mass, blood boosting drugs that increase endurance by increasing the amount of ozygen that can be carried to the muscles, non-drug methods that increase the blood supply to the same effect, some stimulants improve mental focus, those beta-2 agonists increase oxygen flow for asthmatics but can be used to enhance athletic performance. I may have missed something but who's counting ? And the only one that is currently of interest here, as there isn't enough cash in the sport to justify the dangerous nature of much less pay for the expensive performance enhancing varieties is the long list of typically illegal, recreational substances.

Use of drugs not specifically banned that can be justifed by prescription from a physician are not included (heart medications).

Ibuprofen, cough medicines that don't contain prohibited substances, cigarettes, etc. are yours to enjoy.

Just what we need . . . more money into the pockets of doctors and lawyers - oh well.

Someone should post a poll, this seems like a good controlled group... to see how many golfers really do smoke the funny cigarettes.
If I knew how to do one, I would. But I don't post much.

Whether you do or not isn't the real question, the question is whether you do on the course or not.

Neither side really wants to know.
Both sides like to claim a majority.

Whether you do or not isn't the real question, the question is whether you do on the course or not.

Neither side really wants to know.
Both sides like to claim a majority.


Actually, the question is whether the pro's do or not. When I was in high school about one-thrid of the guys on my football team used steroids. I would venture to say that number is higher now across the nation. I know alot of guys on the baseball team did too.
But how many NFL players use steroids or any other banned substance? Maybe 2% because they have a very strict drug policy
How many MLB players use steroids? Maybe 50% because the drug policies are a joke in baseball
How many AAA baseball players use steroids? Probably 90%, because there is virtually no drug policy.

The numbers directly correlate to the testing policies, IMO. So, if you test the pro's, the numbers will go down. If you don't test at casual tourny's, the numbers will remain the same. No surprise here.

How many AAA baseball players use steroids? Probably 90%, because there is virtually no drug policy.



Untrue. MLB controls the Minors much more stringently than the Majors. There is no Minor League Union to "protect" them. Steroid usage in the minors is probably much, much less than in the Majors.

True, i forgot baseball did decide to start testing for steroids. I googled searched for steroids in AAA baseball and got about a million hits. From my estimation 4 players from EVERY AAA BASEBALL TEAM have been suspended this year for steroids alone. So they are using, and now they are getting caught. But baseball's standards are still a joke compared to WADA.

Just a quick question. If someone plays disc golf and they are from,,oh,,,say,, Amsterdam where pot smoking is legal, then how can they be tested accurately? Especially when the drug stays in your system for much longer than what the desired effects are, and it's perfectly legal there. Just my 2 on this topic /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Aren't most banned performance enhancing substances legal outside of sports ?

Why would this be any different ?

I didn't realize that marijuana was performance enhancing /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Maybe if you think disc golf has reached its limit, you should move to say practically anywhere outside of the US and see what it is really like. (No wait at the first tee! No, wait, there is no first tee!)
Try then going to councils and schools with a game/sport with this image and see how far it will get you in trying to promote & develop disc golf or any disc sports in that area.
Also try & get funding from State & National Government sport associations without a drug free/doping policy.
As for getting sponsorship from nationals & multi-nationals you can pretty much forget it.
(Sound familiar?)

This isn't about money, its about giving people everywhere the opportunity to play disc golf & enjoy throwing a disc like we do.

Is voting for this going to wipe out drug use in the sport? No.
So what is the point? - To ensure the public perception of the sport & Assn is not of condoning or promoting drug use, and enabling further growth and development of disc golf and other disc sports.
Is this going to be the one thing that changes it all? - No but it would be another small step.

This isn't just about one player or another, its about the sport & everyone as a whole. And if all you do is go to the local course & play then what are you really doing for disc golf?

Now, I think I've given everyone enough ammo to last a while, (which may just prove my point), but if you really think I have no idea, get a passport & airfares to Australia, come over and find out for yourself. I'll be happy to show you around.


OK, flak jacket on.....Check.
You were saying?

Tim.

If PDGA signed on to WADA then you would most likely have to agree, when you become a member, to abide by WADA rules including DQ and suspension from any events sanctioned by any WADA signatory bodies. It doesn't matter what laws a person is subject to at home since they are also subject to WADA rules. There may be an exception if the drug was prescribed by a doctor for medical reasons. The athlete is responsible to know what is banned or permitted and is also fully responsible for what is in their body.

Beat the rush to avoid WADA scrutiny ! Join United Disc Golf NOW !!!


Just a quick question. If someone plays disc golf and they are from,,oh,,,say,, Amsterdam where pot smoking is legal, then how can they be tested accurately? Especially when the drug stays in your system for much longer than what the desired effects are, and it's perfectly legal there. Just my 2 on this topic /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Just a quick question. If someone plays disc golf and they are from,,oh,,,say,, Amsterdam where pot smoking is legal, then how can they be tested accurately? Especially when the drug stays in your system for much longer than what the desired effects are, and it's perfectly legal there. Just my 2 on this topic /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

that last paragraph of the WADA list of banned substances indicates that some consideration MAY be given for intent of use and other factors. i have no idea if they actually apply this to weed, but...

another point... pot is not legal in holland. it is 100% decriminalized. further, it is not mandatory. i know MANY holland natives who have never lit up.

Beat the rush to avoid WADA scrutiny ! Join United Disc Golf NOW !!!

[
Now that is funny!! :D:D

United Disc Golf now that real funny :Dtalk about embarassing :o:D

Want to post but not a PDGA memeber? Drop by www. uniteddisc golf.com (no space) of course.

I want to see how long it takes these "free speech", "no censorship" "open forum" folks to ban me...

Should be rich.

depends on how big an [I'm a potty-mouth!] you make of yourself over there. if its as big as here then it won't take too long.

WADA Schmada. This is a very silly thread. There are sports where doping is a very big issue because athletes seek competitive advantage over others by taking drugs some of which can be very harmful. I am a big fan of bicycle racing and doping is a huge issue both for the dopers and the problems with fair testing and enforcement. With disc golf I find it very difficult to determine whether any drugs help or hurt or do both or do neither. Are you a better or worse player if you smoke dope? Will you throw farther if you take steroids but will that make you a lousy putter? I can see where doping issues would pertain to ultimate where one's ability to run all day makes him or her a better player. There are drugs that help with that (and you don't smoke those drugs). Its irrelevant to disc golf and this thread seems to me to be a bunch of wanking. Oh, I see my computer is a mess... I'm done..

So "memebers" aren't welcome ? Oh wait, now I remember, anyone with anything to contribute is welcome . . . That's actually the exact reason you're not welcome in so many places you visit - nothing to contribute :/


Want to post but not a PDGA memeber? Drop by www. uniteddisc golf.com (no space) of course.

Pot is not a preforming enhancing drug the NBA doesn't test there players for pot, now they might get busted with it.So whats the issue here on pot? Relax people that is not the drug to be testing for.

Doesn't pot "unfocus" a person? If so, then they have fewer perceived distractions while putting (for example). I'd say that is a performance enhancement for our sport if your state of consciencenous (sp) is altered to the point of "ignoring" the surroundings.

Wrong do you see Tiger Woods smoking pot it's all in your head. You don't see John Daley looking for a beer. Relax on the pot it's not gonna make your game any better, but it might get non users upset. ;) Now if I was using some kind of steroid or oxegen blood booster that is doping.

Bender you could always use ear plugs, to keep you focused on your putting, that will block out some of the noise, you could use blinders too. :DBut pot will not improve your game.

8:57! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ;) /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Beer30!! :D

Rhett 0

Cheech or Chong would be World Champs if pot is gonna make your game better :D

or you would be!!! :D :p :cool: drive safe to Tyler.

Cheech and Chong = El Chile and PDP :D

Chinger what's up? are you of those players that think smoking pot is gonna make your game better? your I'm done here. :D;) and put down the crack pipe :D

If it was true you would be the 10 time world champ and not Climo :D

Test for performance enhancing drugs. That is fine with me. I don't want to have to compete with someone who is on steroids.

Drug tests are very specific. You don't just take a sample and find every drug, chemical, etc. that a person has in their system. You have to test individually for each substance. In other words you find only what you are looking for. So if we do this someday, let's limit it to relevant substances. This will keep costs down (and payouts up :-)).

If pot is performance enhancing, I'd like to see some science that shows this. Personally, I wasn't able to find any. Consensus seems to be that it has no positive effect, and a proven detrimental effect on athletes. It may be enhancing in the same way that drinking coffee or chewing bubble gum or eating your favorite breakfast before a round is enhancing. So what. That just means it's mental! Please don't take my coffee away!

I searched for some info and according to ESPN.com (http://espn.go.com/special/s/drugsandsports/mari.html)...


What are the effects of marijuana on performance?

* Impairs skills requiring eye-hand coordination and a fast reaction time
* Reduces motor coordination, tracking ability and perceptual accuracy
* Impairs concentration, and time appears to move more slowly
* Skill impairment may last up to 24 to 36 hours after usage
* Reduces maximal exercise capacity resulting in increased fatiguability
* Marijuana has no performance-enhancing potential



Maybe some of you should be encouraging your opponents to smoke during rounds!

And an interesting point in another article (http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2239115) relating to ball golf directly (also espn.com)...


In golf, the risk of detection is almost zero. No professional tour � or the USGA � has specific language in its rules prohibiting performance-enhancing substances. The PGA and LPGA tours' professional conduct rules prohibit players from using or selling illegal substances � rules originally tailored to warn players off recreational drugs like cocaine and marijuana � but neither tour has a testing procedure in place to detect any kind of illegal drug, recreational or otherwise. USGA executive director David Fay says he not only has no comment about the USGA's position on steroids, but he won't comment on whether the subject has even come up in the organisation's policy meetings.



If we test, let's test for performance enhancing drugs. Leave what people do off the course, to them.

And to ajones...

I guess I am lucky to live in a conservative area. If I had started playing disc golf in an area that was a pot smoking haven, I probably never would've started playing. I really don't feel like being associated with pot smokers. If I move to an area that does have a problem with people smoking pot on the course, I might set aside my discs until I can move somewhere else. I will not pass judgement on people that smoke pot. But, I will not hang out with people or have my name associated with a sport that condones pot smoking.



Wow, that is really close-minded. You seem to have a skewed view of people who smoke pot. Chances are, there are many people in your life you respect, and would never suspect, who smoke marijuana. The fact that you live in a conservative area means people have more incentive to hide it (and rightfully so). These are bold statements to make, and if your dedication to this sport hinges on such a small factor, then why even involve yourself in this discussion? There are many things I dislike about others, however it is their right to do what they like with their lives. I am not going to quit doing something I love because of other peoples lifestyle differences!

Looks like you've already passed judgement to me...

Test for performance enhancing drugs. That is fine with me. I don't want to have to compete with someone who is on steroids.

Drug tests are very specific. You don't just take a sample and find every drug, chemical, etc. that a person has in their system. You have to test individually for each substance. In other words you find only what you are looking for. So if we do this someday, let's limit it to relevant substances. This will keep costs down (and payouts up :-)).

If pot is performance enhancing, I'd like to see some science that shows this. Personally, I wasn't able to find any. Consensus seems to be that it has no positive effect, and a proven detrimental effect on athletes. It may be enhancing in the same way that drinking coffee or chewing bubble gum or eating your favorite breakfast before a round is enhancing. So what. That just means it's mental! Please don't take my coffee away!

I searched for some info and according to ESPN.com (http://espn.go.com/special/s/drugsandsports/mari.html)...


What are the effects of marijuana on performance?

* Impairs skills requiring eye-hand coordination and a fast reaction time
* Reduces motor coordination, tracking ability and perceptual accuracy
* Impairs concentration, and time appears to move more slowly
* Skill impairment may last up to 24 to 36 hours after usage
* Reduces maximal exercise capacity resulting in increased fatiguability
* Marijuana has no performance-enhancing potential



Maybe some of you should be encouraging your opponents to smoke during rounds!

And an interesting point in another article (http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2239115) relating to ball golf directly (also espn.com)...


In golf, the risk of detection is almost zero. No professional tour � or the USGA � has specific language in its rules prohibiting performance-enhancing substances. The PGA and LPGA tours' professional conduct rules prohibit players from using or selling illegal substances � rules originally tailored to warn players off recreational drugs like cocaine and marijuana � but neither tour has a testing procedure in place to detect any kind of illegal drug, recreational or otherwise. USGA executive director David Fay says he not only has no comment about the USGA's position on steroids, but he won't comment on whether the subject has even come up in the organisation's policy meetings.



If we test, let's test for performance enhancing drugs. Leave what people do off the course, to them.

And to ajones...

I guess I am lucky to live in a conservative area. If I had started playing disc golf in an area that was a pot smoking haven, I probably never would've started playing. I really don't feel like being associated with pot smokers. If I move to an area that does have a problem with people smoking pot on the course, I might set aside my discs until I can move somewhere else. I will not pass judgement on people that smoke pot. But, I will not hang out with people or have my name associated with a sport that condones pot smoking.



Wow, that is really close-minded. You seem to have a skewed view of people who smoke pot. Chances are, there are many people in your life you respect, and would never suspect, who smoke marijuana. The fact that you live in a conservative area means people have more incentive to hide it (and rightfully so). These are bold statements to make, and if your dedication to this sport hinges on such a small factor, then why even involve yourself in this discussion? There are many things I dislike about others, however it is their right to do what they like with their lives. I am not going to quit doing something I love because of other peoples lifestyle differences!

Looks like you've already passed judgement to me...

I doubt that there any tournament disc golfers that use peformance enhancing drugs. It seems to me that the players that are successful are the ones who practice, practice, practice. Some players may even have some level of an excersise, fitness and diet program as well. Some players may play like a machine, but I think its because they are prepared, mind and body. At this point in time, I doubt that the money involved is at a place where any player feels they must have the edge. The idea of WADA testing to add an element of legitimancy to our sport for promotional purpososes and to eliminate cheating sounds good, but I dont think it is necessary. As for pot, if its any good, I dont believe it will help your game. It will fry your concentration and your done.

Are there any specific guidelines out there on this : "Some players may even have some level of an excersise, fitness and diet program as well. "

I'm interested on diet guidelines. Health is very important to me right now.

Bender you could always use ear plugs, to keep you focused on your putting, that will block out some of the noise, you could use blinders too. :DBut pot will not improve your game.



Does Bode Miller still drink ?