At a recent PDGA event, a competitor got a disc stuck up in a tree. A few minutes later, Nick Kight's group came through the same hole. He has often intimated on the 2m threads on the Discussion Board that discs NEVER stick 40 feet up in a tree. Well, here was a classic example of that and I pointed it out to Nick. I said "Look, there's a disc 40 feet up in a tree and you said that never happens." This was during a break in the action and well before the next competitor got to his lie.

What does he do next? He says nothing, but then later complains to the Marshall and TD that I "got into his head."

Today, Nick has claimed that pointing out a disc stuck in the tree was rude behavior, and has threatened to take the matter to the PDGA Disciplinary Committee. I don't agree that it's discourteous to point something out to him during a tournament. I brought up a rules issue, and I would do the exact same thing again at another event if given the opportunity.

So what do you all think? Gross misconduct on my part, or is Nick Kight simply a crybaby?

If the way in which you pointed out that a disc got stuck in a tree 40 feet up is not an issue then I don't see how that would be different than mentioning any other notable occurance that you noticed. You might have well said that someone threw three consecutive throws OB or someone hit a skip ace, or whatever.

However, if you came up screaming about it and got in his face or something like that, then I could see why Nick might be upset by it.

http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/azcrying.gif

:cool:

http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/smiley_abxe.gif

LOL So perfect because if it weren't for the fact that Jeff and Nick are always dueling, Jeff would not have said anything. Com'n Jeff really. I think you're wrong. :p

I'm with Jon we don't have the context of the occurance to give a sound opinion.

There simply is no way to answer this without seeming overly cruel towards Jeff except to say to him to listen to his fellow staff members, the PDGA Marshal and most of all his Tournament Director who is doing his best, and has been for the past 6 or more years to build a warm professional atmosphere for events at Warwick.

Listen to them.

I am not going to stop in the middle of a round to explain to you that you are out of line, I would if you were a competitor, but it is not my job to control staff at such an event, I am only a guest.

Really it was a minor thing that I was more than willing to let drop prior to you coming on here and actually seeming "proud" about it.

http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/azcrying.gif http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/azcrying.gif http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/azcrying.gif http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/azcrying.gif http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/azcrying.gif
http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/smiley_abxe.gif

Great smilies!

Nick is a cry baby.

Annie is a coward. http://www.madisc.org/forum/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif :D

I was going to post, "It must be a slow day at the pasta salad factory," but then I remembered they move your office.

definitely a crybaby with no mental game at all if thats all it takes to get in his head. i guess there's a LOT of empty space in there if its so easy to get into.

i sincerely hope he DOES take it to the Disciplinary Committee. that will be freakin hilarious! what a waste of those poor volunteers' time! :D

definitely a crybaby with no mental game at all if thats all it takes to get in his head. i guess there's a LOT of empty space in there if its so easy to get into.

i sincerely hope he DOES take it to the Disciplinary Committee. that will be freakin hilarious! what a waste of those poor volunteers' time! :D



Things pat writes are funnier when he has me on ignore... :D

I was going to post, "It must be a slow day at the pasta salad factory," but then I remembered they move your office.



I am under a priority directive from our executive staff to make DVD copies of a wmv file that was made in memorial for a US helicopter pilot killed in Afganistan last month who was also the brother of a guy that works for us. So, after I authored the DVD using the wmv file for the content I have had lots of time to kill in between burning DVDs. I have 5 more to burn!

Jeff,
I was standing next to you when you said that you were going to say something to Nick. I believe I told you my opinion at the time. I was standing nearby when you did say something to Nick. I believe I told my opinion at that time. When the PDGA Marshall came over to say that there was a complaint, I believe you got my opinion one more time. While gross misconduct is a little overboard, your comments were definitely uncalled for due to the fact that Nick paid to play a National Tour event at Warwick and regardless of his online opinions (and lord knows there are many), he had every right to play the tournament without you hassling him during the tournament.

Now I'm about to head up to MA for some unsanctioned fun for the weekend so have a nice weekend.

Please! Let's not bother the DC with this. What Jeff did was inappropriate, he was messing with Nick during a round and he knows it. If he caught Nick in a rules violation then he could have said something, what he was doing was trying to score points.

The proper response is also obvious, "know the rules, call the rules!" This is what is known as a courtesy violation. It's well defined in your rule book (I think 801.01) and Nick would have been within his rights to call it. I might point out that Nick's response was... well on par with Jeff's action. It was meant to get optimal coverage. Why call a courtesy violation when you can get the Marshal, the TD and as many other players involved as possible... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

You know, when we meet on on the course, we're suppossed to leave the dribble that happens here behind, so as to pursue a common interest.

nonsense, lyle. what jeff said was no different than someone saying "oh wow, look, a disc is sitting OB".

big whoop.

besides... is nick to the point that a comment made to him during the round must have nothing to do with anything at all?

puhlease! he's a whinny little pouter with no mental game. he'll get over it (or not)

What Jeff neglected to mention is that he wasn't playing the event, he was staffing the event. Tough to stroke staff (insert disturbing mental images).

The irony of the whole situation is, it was Morgan's disc that got stuck up the tree.

For those wondering, my comment was made in a normal speaking tone. I did not run up to Nick and get in his face and start screaming. I simply pointed out in a calm manner that a disc was stuck up in tree.

I still disagree on 2 counts: 1) that this could be considered "hassling" him 2) that just because he paid an entry fee to play in a tournament that I must keep quiet and not say anything to him during a round (because you know he'll construe anything I say to him as mistreatment/inhospitability, and a courtesy violation)

And the bottom line is that instead of dealing with this like a man, he chose to cry to the Marshall and Tournament Director like a big sissy.

I was just thinking about the 2 meter rule. Yesterday I stuck a hook thumb in a tree. It's not the route most folks take on the hole but it is the perfect distance for me to thumb. The stroke is definately warranted.

Jeff,
...I was standing nearby when you did say something to Nick...



Jim,

Can you confirm that Jeff pointed out the stuck disc in the manner that he claims to have on here? I know that you are not un-biased in this due to your repeated statements that you were not in agreement with him pointing it out, but please give us as much of an unbiased report as you can.

If Jeff did indeed point it out in the manner that he reports here, then Nick is majorly crying over nothing. If Jeff is sugar-coating his delivery then maybe there is merit to Nick's claims.

that just because he paid an entry fee to play in a tournament that I must keep quiet and not say anything to him during a round (because you know he'll construe anything I say to him as mistreatment/inhospitability, and a courtesy violation)



Since you knew he would take it as you say "mistreatment/inhospitability' you were out of line. You knew you should wait till after the round.


And the bottom line is that instead of dealing with this like a man, he chose to cry to the Marshall and Tournament Director like a big sissy.



you also keep throwing insults to provoke. That says a lot to me about how you act. But it is Nick's MO to follow the rules, which he did, by informing the TD/marshall.


Its a real shame the only black eye from an otherwise great event comes from a tourny volunteer.

I know of someone else that likes to throw insults. :o

Yes you. :D

Since Jeff started this thread, he obviously wants this discussed. I'll oblige.

We were spotting and watching tournament central on hole 3 when Morgan throws a disc really, really high up in a tree. Several groups later Nick's group tees off and on their way to their discs Jeff points out that discs really do get stuck 40 feet up in trees to Nick who was at least 50 feet away. Nick says nothing in response but later the Disc Police come and tell us that there had been a complaint made. Now I'm sure that Nick was not thrilled to see 2 of his favorite message boarders (Jeff L & Dan H) spotting the hole with me so saying something at the time probably wasn't his best option. He should have just laughed it off as a poor attempt at humor and continued on in my opinion. In a nutshell, Jeff shouldn't have tried to get a rise out of Nick during a tournament round as a volunteer, and Nick should have just kept playing disc golf. The horse is dead, now go beat something else. :D

PS - I'm heading up to Marshall Street tomorrow for the weekend so you'll just have to believe Nick & Jeff on this if they keep discussing it.

One question for you Jeff, were you being hostile?

And what did you hope, that I would start into a lengthy discussion on the 2 meter rule with a spotter in the middle of a National Tour event? Particularly with someone who has been openly hostile towards me at every opportunity?

C'mon!

You needed to know that what you did was inappropriate. Since you wouldn't take my word for it, nor apparently any of the people warning you against such rude and uncalled for behavior, I'm not sure why I thought you would from a PDGA Marshal or National Tour Tournament Director either, but it seemed like the thing to do.

Perhaps I should have been like Pat and told you off in the middle of a round just before throwing. I didn't. That would have been rude to the players I was with.

I'm still trying to figure out what you thought you could gain by not only bringing this up here, but actually acting proud about it. Seems crazy to me.

But then again, Pat proves that there are folks that love this sort of witch hunt crudd here, so you are gaining respect from that sort of user. Whoopie!

This is more entertaining than watching TV.

Again, Nick.... an answer like....

"Jeff, let's discuss this on the PDGA board in 2 days"

with a smirk on your face could have avoided the entire situation. But no....you need to complain (something you're good at). Can't you handle a situation like this? Isn't a complaint to the Marshall more trouble than saying one sentence to Jeff and then you can discuss it here?

Sometimes I just don't understand it. My son has a 6-year old girl in his class who runs to the teacher all the time as well to tattletale.

It seems to me that Nick is the guy who wants to blow things out of proportion here.

Nick wrote:


Really it was a minor thing that I was more than willing to let drop prior to you coming on here and actually seeming "proud" about it.



Then why "file a complaint", since "...it was a minor thing"

Maybe not minor enough. And....I guess Jeff had a point to make. You apparently say things on this board that aren't true. Things that never happen...I guess happen sometimes. Hmmmmm.

NAZIS

I've already stated elsewhere that, while it goes against every fiber of my being, I agree with Nick. This was not something that should have happened during an NT. Jeff said it while Nick was walking to his disc, pretty far (more than 60 feet) away from Jeff, so Jeff had to say it loudly to be heard. It's not often that I take the high ground in this type of situation, but Jeff was wrong and Jim and I said so at the time.

I don't think it got in Nick's head, but I don't see a problem with his complaint about it. Jeff was being a tool, and got caught. End of story.

that just because he paid an entry fee to play in a tournament that I must keep quiet and not say anything to him during a round (because you know he'll construe anything I say to him as mistreatment/inhospitability, and a courtesy violation)



Since you knew he would take it as you say "mistreatment/inhospitability' you were out of line. You knew you should wait till after the round.



No, at the time, I didn't think I should wait until the end of the round. I thought it would be funny to point it out to him. Even now, I still don't think it was inappropriate, because no normal person would get all bent out of shape like that. I shouldn't need to wait until the end of the round to point out that something he says never happens actually did: a disc got stuck 40 feet up in a tree! I was shocked that he went to tattle, and my bewilderment only increases as he threatens to go to the PDGA Disciplinary Committee about this.

I'm bringing this up to show what kind of person he is, not only on the message board, but also in real life. He's a mouse, not a man.

And if we've beaten this topic to death, let me finish with this: whether I am a player, staff member or spectator, if a similar situation arises again at a tournament, I will not hesitate to take the exact same course of action with you, Nick. End of story.

What I think is being overlooked here is that Morgan was able to get a disc 40 feet in the air. I assume it was an elevated tee? :D

I've already stated elsewhere that, while it goes against every fiber of my being, I agree with Nick. This was not something that should have happened during an NT. Jeff said it while Nick was walking to his disc, pretty far (more than 60 feet) away from Jeff, so Jeff had to say it loudly to be heard. It's not often that I take the high ground in this type of situation, but Jeff was wrong and Jim and I said so at the time.

I don't think it got in Nick's head, but I don't see a problem with his complaint about it. Jeff was being a tool, and got caught. End of story.



Thank you Dan. Not liking Nick's message board style is not a logical reason to refute his opinions nor harass the man.

Jeff would you have exhibited the same behavior to Carlton Howard, Harold Duvall, or Chuck Kennedy since they all support elimination of the 2 meter penalty as a mandated rule? Where has Nick ever said discs do not stick 40 feet up in trees? If Nick felt discs don't stick in trees he would not give a fig if there were a two meter penalty. A disc sticking in a tree after hitting it is an anomaly. You would have been more correct to say: Nick, check out the anomaly!"

About 50 % of disc golfers oppose the 2 meter rule, and not for some easily refuted reason like discs don't stick 40 feet up in trees...

Here's what should have happened:

Jeff: Hey Nick, a disc just got stuck 40 feet up a tree!
Nick: Oh ya, well I just heard that someone started another Wraith tread.
Jeff: Oh ya?
Nick: Oh ya!(fisticuffs ensue)

No, at the time, I didn't think I should wait until the end of the round. I thought it would be funny to point it out to him. Even now, I still don't think it was inappropriate, because no normal person would get all bent out of shape like that. I shouldn't need to wait until the end of the round to point out that something he says never happens actually did: a disc got stuck 40 feet up in a tree! I was shocked that he went to tattle, and my bewilderment only increases as he threatens to go to the PDGA Disciplinary Committee about this.

I'm bringing this up to show what kind of person he is, not only on the message board, but also in real life. He's a mouse, not a man.

And if we've beaten this topic to death, let me finish with this: whether I am a player, staff member or spectator, if a similar situation arises again at a tournament, I will not hesitate to take the exact same course of action with you, Nick. End of story.




Sad, just sad. The TD says you were out of line, the spotter standing next to you says you acted like a "tool".

Why do I get the feeling this was all premeditated.

Thanks for the early morning laugh. :D

You know a year ago or so this would not have ended up this way.

If Jeff is a "tool" then so is Nick.

40 feet away...normal tone and volume of speaking voice...or maybe 60 feet away speaking loudly....who knows.... only a few people were there, and they can't agree on what exactly happened.

Nick is blowing this out of proportion. Let him go after Jeff. Maybe Jeff should be disciplined...even punished...for saying something to Nick (I mean - how dare you talk to Nick without having asking for permission to speak....you used to talk to him a long time ago....but these were different days way back then)....is that why Nick shot a 881 round on Saturday? No wonder he is all mad....

Hope this thread will die soon, even though it's entertaining. Come 'on...the threat of disciplianry action...

Since the "TD" keeps being brought up here, I guess I as the TD should weigh in...

I won't get into a public discussion about right or wrong, because i wasn't there when jeff made his comment, and because right or wrong is probably a perception rather than a universal truth. I also have a good relationship with both Nick and jeff (insert derisive comments here)....

As i wandered the course during play, and encountered Nick's group, Nick came up to me and told me (i'm paraphrasing here to the best of my recollection) that he was unhappy that jeff had made comments to him that he felt were inappropriate. I don't believe (again my best recollection) that Nick was complaining so much about WHAT was said but rather more about the fact that given the strained relationship between the two that he didn't feel it was appropriate for jeff to say anything to Nick during play if it could be construed in any way to be anything other than positive. Again, this is my best recollection. Nick was matter-of-fact about it but obviously not happy about it. He asked me to speak with Jeff and ask jeff to please stay away from him during play.

When I found jeff later on, he admitted to me that he had said something to Nick, understood Nick was unhappy about it, and told me he'd stay away from Nick during play for the remainder of the event. My impression was that jeff was sorry if he did anything inappropriate.

At that point i considered it a dead/handled issue, until it resurfaced again here on this site. My opinion is that it's done and over with and more a result of the dislike these 2 have for each other, rather than being an offense that a disciplinary committee should take any action on. If it had happened a second time during our event, after i had spoken with jeff, that would be a different story.

i'd suggest that nick and jeff understand they are very much alike in their passion for the sport, and also alike in that they volunteer a lot of their time to make Disc Golf a better sport. They don't have to be buddies, but public squabbles just slit their own wrists and detract from all the good they do. Neither of you can do all the good you do in a vacuum; you need to work with others. For your sake and the sake of the sport, I'd suggest you agree to disagree more responsibly....

Start fresh. Share a Brooklyn Brewery beer together. Embrace your similarities and not your differences....

Dan Doyle
TD
Skylands Classic at Warwick

the DC has exactly what options for disciplining a spectator? a spanking? tell him to take a timeout? make him eat his brussel sprouts or he wont get any dessert?

that Nicki would even consider this more than 10 seconds after it happened, let alone take it to the DC, indicates that he is completely without his senses and is hellbent on revenge.

learn to play with others, nick. your world will become so much more palatable. i promise.

Robert Zurfluh wrote:
Can't you handle a situation like this? Isn't a complaint to the Marshall more trouble than saying one sentence to Jeff and then you can discuss it here?



Yes, I can and did and yes it would have been more trouble stopping my round to explain to Jeff, who as you know (similar to you apparently) has a bone to pick with me beyond any 2 meter rule discussion. It would have been more trouble for the players in my group, it would have been more trouble to my round and it would have given Jeff what he wanted which was to make a public scene.

As it was, the folks in my group only thought, �Gee, that was a weird thing to yell out while we were playing this hole.� And little else, since I didn�t discuss it with any of them. What I did was mention it, that it was inappropriate behavior for a staff member to be doing that to a player (which is certainly true), to Bill Newman and Dan Doyle who happened to be standing near the very next tee we played. End of story for the players in my group and myself.

Tell me truthfully Robert, do you think it was all as innocent as Jeff says? Do you think that even if it was, it is appropriate for a staff person to do what he did? Your answers should clarify where you really are on this.


Sometimes I just don't understand it. My son has a 6-year old girl in his class who runs to the teacher all the time as well to tattletale.

It seems to me that Nick is the guy who wants to blow things out of proportion here.



Let me remind you Robert of the fact that it was Jeff that (unsolicited) brought this up here on the message board, not I. I was ready to let it go. I feel that I dealt with the situation appropriately. If Jeff wants to get in a shouting match in the middle of a National Tour event, as a host staff member, with a competitor in the event, he needs to find someone else, I�ve got better things to do.

Why don�t you ask Dan Doyle, the Tournament Director, if he wants to be made aware of such things?


Nick wrote:


Really it was a minor thing that I was more than willing to let drop prior to you coming on here and actually seeming "proud" about it.



Then why "file a complaint", since "...it was a minor thing"

Maybe not minor enough. And....I guess Jeff had a point to make. You apparently say things on this board that aren't true. Things that never happen...I guess happen sometimes. Hmmmmm.


First of all, I have never said that discs never get stuck in trees 40 feet up. That would be a ridiculous thing to say.

Second it was minor enough that I didn�t start a PDGA DISCussion Board Witch Hunt about it, but felt that it was worth bring to the TDs attention since he feels that �ALL� avoidable negatives at his event are worth knowing about and dealing with.

Jeff, this is the last thing I will say to you on this matter. That you see nothing wrong with what you did and are now doing (bragging about it) is all that is necessary to understand that you are out of control. You were wrong. Simple. Deal with it and move on.

Or go ahead and do it again; if as you say it was an innocent jibing, then nothing will come of it. Your fellow volunteers won�t mind it. The players in the group you are yelling at won�t mind it. The marshal and td won�t mind it. And the PDGA Disciplinary Committee won�t mind it.

If not, then you will get what you get, and that will be a resolution of sorts as well.

If you continue to avoid responsibility for your actions, ignore the advice and wishes of your fellow volunteers and tournament director, and moreover bring your misconduct up as a point of pride, while blaming the situation on your victim, then I will have no choice but to ask the PDGA Disciplinary Committee to investigate this. Your behavior at the time and after is unacceptable, you will either come to understand this or the disc golf community will speak clearly to you that it is unacceptable. Your choice.

Either way, it will remain a minor thing in my disc golf experience; while you are free to make it the foundation of your entire disc golf existence, which is apparently what you are after as concerns me. Some sad sad stuff�

Again, don�t blame anyone but yourself. You made your bed, now you need to choose if you are going to sleep in it.

I'm done with this, amusing as it might be for Robert, it is of little interest to me, I'll leave it in other more appropriate hands if you persist on this nonsense.

the DC has exactly what options for disciplining a spectator? a spanking? tell him to take a timeout? make him eat his brussel sprouts or he wont get any dessert?

that Nicki would even consider this more than 10 seconds after it happened, let alone take it to the DC, indicates that he is completely without his senses and is hellbent on revenge.

learn to play with others, nick. your world will become so much more palatable. i promise.



Well intentioned and lacking any vindictiveness as I know your advice to be Patty, you are as much an expert on me as you have direct knowledge of this incident.

I appreciate Dan coming on here and attempting to make peace. I am, and have been, more than willing to let bygones be bygones. The ball is squarely in Jeff's corner. I have no major qualms about dealing with it either way it comes out.

All I would be looking for from the DC is a statement that staff of events should not harrass players. Not sure what is so strange about such a declaration. Not sure why Jeff can't accept that that is a truism, say sorry and move on...

nonsense, lyle. what jeff said was no different than someone saying "oh wow, look, a disc is sitting OB".

big whoop.

besides... is nick to the point that a comment made to him during the round must have nothing to do with anything at all?

puhlease! he's a whinny little pouter with no mental game. he'll get over it (or not)



I know you enjoy debating with Nick and maybe that has made for some animosity but go back and read Jim's post. He told Jeff at least three times what he was doing was a bad idea.

He was having fun at Nick's expense and in the middle of a tournament that is inappropriate. It doesn't matter that Nick got stuck on his own petard, pointing that out in the middle of a round was inappropriate.

ha�rass ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h-rs, hrs)
tr.v. ha�rassed, ha�rass�ing, ha�rass�es
To irritate or torment persistently .
To wear out; exhaust.
To impede and exhaust (an enemy) by repeated attacks or raids.



Main Entry: ha�rass
Pronunciation: h&-'ras, 'har-&s
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle French harasser to exhaust, fatigue, from harer to set a dog on, from Old French hare, interjection used to incite dogs
: to subject persistently and wrongfully to annoying, offensive, or troubling behavior <a collection agency harassing a debtor> �see also SEXUAL HARASSMENT �ha�rass�er noun �ha�rass�ment noun


harass

v 1: annoy continually or chronically ; "He is known to harry his staff when he is overworked"; "This man harasses his female co-workers" [syn: hassle, harry, chivy, chivvy, chevy, chevvy, beset, plague, molest, provoke] 2: exhaust by attacking repeatedly ; "harass the enemy"



Synonyms: harass, harry, hound, badger, pester, plague
These verbs mean to trouble persistently or incessantly . Harass and harry imply systematic persecution by besieging with repeated annoyances, threats, or demands: The landlord harassed tenants who were behind in their rent. A rude customer had harried the storekeeper. Hound suggests unrelenting pursuit to gain a desired end: Reporters hounded the celebrity for an interview. To badger is to nag or tease persistently: The child badgered his parents for a new bicycle. To pester is to inflict a succession of petty annoyances: �How she would have pursued and pestered me with questions and surmises� (Charlotte Bront�). Plague refers to a problem likened to an epidemic disease: �As I have no estate, I am plagued with no tenants or stewards� (Henry Fielding).

************************************************** *********************

these are the dictionary definitions of HARASS. notice the similarities across all definitions of the word AND ITS SYNONYMS??? thats right, its the concept of REPEATED and PERSISTANT.

no, i ask you to take ONE comment and demonstrate the REPEATED or PERSISTANT nature of the alleged offense.

what i am doing on this thread IS harassment. what Jeff did on the course that day was NOT (in fact, since he specifically and consciously did NOT repeat the action, it sounds more like pre-mediatated NON-harrassment than anything else)

nick, and supporters: grow a skin. since you're lacking nads, its the only hope you've got.

I've accomplished my goal here. I've shown that Nick has just as many problems interacting with others in real life as he does on the message board. Any other person in the world would have just chuckled and ignored an innocent comment. I don't know Carlton Howard or Harold Duvall, but I know Chuck Kennedy and I'm sure he would have laughed if I brought something up from the Discussion Board like that. Instead, Nick chose to cry foul and go complain to the Disc Police. The computer screen he hides behind may as well be his momma's skirt. If you can't learn to play with others, Nick, get out of disc golf.

Nick wrote:


Let me remind you Robert of the fact that it was Jeff that (unsolicited) brought this up here on the message board, not I. I was ready to let it go





Jeff wrote in his first post:


Today, Nick has claimed that pointing out a disc stuck in the tree was rude behavior, and has threatened to take the matter to the PDGA Disciplinary Committee.






Yeah Nick, you talked to Dan, the Marshall, and then the case was closed.... and Jeff made this entire disciplinary board threat up, right?
I mean IMO, that was his (maybe not so unsolicited) reason to start this thread. I guess you did something else, or posted something else, or PM'ed something else for Jeff to bring this up.

So, are you gonna take this matter up to the next level, or not?

he would have laughed if I brought something up from the Discussion Board like that.



True dat. But hopefully I would have come up with a clever comeback. Seems to me losing the disc was enough of a penalty without an added throw...

ha�rass ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h-rs, hrs)
tr.v. ha�rassed, ha�rass�ing, ha�rass�es
To irritate or torment persistently .
To wear out; exhaust.
To impede and exhaust (an enemy) by repeated attacks or raids.



Main Entry: ha�rass
Pronunciation: h&-'ras, 'har-&s
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle French harasser to exhaust, fatigue, from harer to set a dog on, from Old French hare, interjection used to incite dogs
: to subject persistently and wrongfully to annoying, offensive, or troubling behavior <a collection agency harassing a debtor> �see also SEXUAL HARASSMENT �ha�rass�er noun �ha�rass�ment noun


harass

v 1: annoy continually or chronically ; "He is known to harry his staff when he is overworked"; "This man harasses his female co-workers" [syn: hassle, harry, chivy, chivvy, chevy, chevvy, beset, plague, molest, provoke] 2: exhaust by attacking repeatedly ; "harass the enemy"



Synonyms: harass, harry, hound, badger, pester, plague
These verbs mean to trouble persistently or incessantly . Harass and harry imply systematic persecution by besieging with repeated annoyances, threats, or demands: The landlord harassed tenants who were behind in their rent. A rude customer had harried the storekeeper. Hound suggests unrelenting pursuit to gain a desired end: Reporters hounded the celebrity for an interview. To badger is to nag or tease persistently: The child badgered his parents for a new bicycle. To pester is to inflict a succession of petty annoyances: �How she would have pursued and pestered me with questions and surmises� (Charlotte Bront�). Plague refers to a problem likened to an epidemic disease: �As I have no estate, I am plagued with no tenants or stewards� (Henry Fielding).

************************************************** *********************

these are the dictionary definitions of HARASS. notice the similarities across all definitions of the word AND ITS SYNONYMS??? thats right, its the concept of REPEATED and PERSISTANT.

no, i ask you to take ONE comment and demonstrate the REPEATED or PERSISTANT nature of the alleged offense.

what i am doing on this thread IS harassment. what Jeff did on the course that day was NOT (in fact, since he specifically and consciously did NOT repeat the action, it sounds more like pre-mediatated NON-harrassment than anything else)

nick, and supporters: grow a skin. since you're lacking nads, its the only hope you've got.



Go back and reread my post, and some of the others here.

First, nowhere in my post do I use the term harass, instead I use the term inappropriate. I stand by that!

The fact that Jeff planned out his (and I use the term in good humor) attack in a conversation with another official tells you the nature of what Jeff was doing. He didn't just call out "2M violation," he confided to Jim that he was going to say something to Nick and what ever he said was enough for Jim to think he was acting out of turn.

Look, I like Jeff, he's an avid supporter of disc golf who works harder than all but a few to further the sport. He messed up here (we all do something like this on occasion). He thinks Nick is wrong about the 2M rule (and I agree with him). He saw an opportunity to score a point and he took it.

The sad thing is that it isn't even that big of a deal. Nick should have realized what Jeff was doing, laughed at him, and went on with his game. I agree that Jeff was not trying to get into Nick's head, in terms of the round, and Nick's response was overboard. But, Nick didn't start the exchange.

I suppose one might argue that Nick's incindiary style caused this, but as me mudder use ter say.... "Two wrongs don't make a right!"

lyle, although i used your post as a lunch pad from which to make my post, i did not intend to suggest you used the word "harass". believe or not, i actually checked your post to see if you used it because i thought that misunderstanding might result. i noticed you didnt... but then i (obviously incorrectly) convinced myself that we'd all understand... since the word WAS used by other people upthread.

Pat doesn't know Nick.

Jeff LaGrassa harasses Nick Kight at ever opportunity.

Nick could care less, except during PDGA rounds at a National Tour event when he is playing and Jeff is not.

3 truisms. Anything additional is superfluous.

Pat doesn't know Nick.

Jeff LaGrassa harasses Nick Kight at ever opportunity.

Nick could care less, except during PDGA rounds at a National Tour event when he is playing and Jeff is not.

3 truisms. Anything additional is superfluous.



Those were the first words I've spoken to Nick since I saw him during a casual round at Nockamixon before Pro Worlds and said "Hello Nick. You're more than welcome to play through if you like." Such harassment on my part! :D

Nick thought he could get me in trouble by being a tattle-tale. So much for that.

Nick can't get along with the other kids in the sandbox.

3 truisms. Anything additional is superfluous.

Nick hates Jeff

Nick threatens Jeff with disciplinary action

Nick only answers what he wants to answer

Nick would make a good politician

You can harrass Nick in any other tournament other than NT and it's ok



.....and what is the point? I don't know. But I thought I should make a list as well.

he would have laughed if I brought something up from the Discussion Board like that.



True dat. But hopefully I would have come up with a clever comeback. Seems to me losing the disc was enough of a penalty without an added throw...



ah, but for you witticisms are a dime a dozen... :D

I've accomplished my goal here. I've shown that Nick has just as many problems interacting with others in real life as he does on the message board. Any other person in the world would have just chuckled and ignored an innocent comment. I don't know Carlton Howard or Harold Duvall, but I know Chuck Kennedy and I'm sure he would have laughed if I brought something up from the Discussion Board like that. Instead, Nick chose to cry foul and go complain to the Disc Police. The computer screen he hides behind may as well be his momma's skirt. If you can't learn to play with others, Nick, get out of disc golf.



So you are admitting that you expected your comment would upset Nick? and then you post the story here? nice! and then, sandalman Pat says: "see, Nick's a WITCH!!!" : well done guys, well done [insert vomiting smiley here]

whats a WITCH?

the only thing i can come up with so far is

Whiny
Insipid
Thinskinned
Childish
Hissy

Doesn't take much to upset Nick.

But I truly believe that Jeff's post started after the volunteer of the year threatened with disciplinary action for talking to him without permission at a NT event (it's ok when it's a B-tier....rules of conduct are different there...it only bothers Nick when it's a NT event, remember?)

I've accomplished my goal here. I've shown that Nick has just as many problems interacting with others in real life as he does on the message board. Any other person in the world would have just chuckled and ignored an innocent comment. I don't know Carlton Howard or Harold Duvall, but I know Chuck Kennedy and I'm sure he would have laughed if I brought something up from the Discussion Board like that. Instead, Nick chose to cry foul and go complain to the Disc Police. The computer screen he hides behind may as well be his momma's skirt. If you can't learn to play with others, Nick, get out of disc golf.



So you are admitting that you expected your comment would upset Nick? and then you post the story here? nice! and then, sandalman Pat says: "see, Nick's a WITCH!!!" : well done guys, well done http://www.madisc.org/forum/phpBB2/images/smiles/062802puke_prv.gif



Anything to help...

Doesn't take much to upset Nick.

But I truly believe that Jeff's post started after the volunteer of the year threatened with disciplinary action for talking to him without permission at a NT event (it's ok when it's a B-tier....rules of conduct are different there...it only bothers Nick when it's a NT event, remember?)



Then as per usual you are wrong again Robert.

whats a WITCH?

the only thing i can come up with so far is

Whiny
Insipid
Thinskinned
Childish
Hissy



we despise most in others that which we turn a blind eye to when it comes to ourselves :p

I don't see how taking it to the DC will do anything, Jeff doesn't play sanctioned events. A suspension will mean nothing, something I think Lagrassa was aware of before his actions towards nick.

Then as per usual you are wrong again Robert.




I am always wrong.....how can that be? Maybe I should enter the school of "Nick's always right".

Let me correct my statement then.

It takes a lot to upset Nick.
And Nick never threatened Jeff with disciplinary action

Now I got it right, sorry Nick...I am always wrong. But wait a second...I am always wrong - that means what I just wrote is wrong again. How can I end this never-ending cycle of wrongness?

unless.....I wrote something in the past few year that was correct.....than Nick's statement regarding me being wrong would be wrong. But that can not be, because Nick is never wrong.

I am in a panic now, because Nick said that I am always wrong. Quick, quick....I need to come wuth something that is correct.

Nick loves Jeff (yeah that miust be true...I said the opposite earlier, but Nick tells me I am always wrong....ohhh, the pain, the pain).

Nick, why did you tell me I am always wrong? I am very saddened by this accusation...

Q: When was Nick wrong?
A: never.

yes, it IS that simple

But sandleman,

whatever I post is wrong.

Let me try this.....

A polecat is a putter....right?

A disc stuck in a tree sucks...right?

Threatening someone with disciplinary action for saying something is an excessive action...right?

only is excessive action is right.

because if excessive action is wrong, then nick would be wrong.

and we know that cannot happen.

I've accomplished my goal here. I've shown that Nick has just as many problems interacting with others in real life as he does on the message board. Any other person in the world would have just chuckled and ignored an innocent comment. I don't know Carlton Howard or Harold Duvall, but I know Chuck Kennedy and I'm sure he would have laughed if I brought something up from the Discussion Board like that. Instead, Nick chose to cry foul and go complain to the Disc Police. The computer screen he hides behind may as well be his momma's skirt. If you can't learn to play with others, Nick, get out of disc golf.



Really Jeff, I get along with Nick just fine, on the Message Board and in real life. Are you saying that I have a problem also, if I think what you allegedly did was inappropriate? You need to find something better to do with your time rather than put other people down.

For anyone whom really cares....Mr. Kight is one of the nicest and most courageous disc golfer I know. He is one of the few disc golfers I know, that knows the rule, follows the rules and calls the rules. Even on himself.

I don't make it a habit nor enjoy putting other people down.
Just Nick. He's the only one who deserves such.

You must not spend a lot of time on here. Nick doesn't treat other people with respect, so he gets none in return.

I believe the contrary to your statement. You must treat others how you wish to be treated. Not, treat others how they treat you.

I believe in the Golden Rule, too. I treat others as I wish them to treat me.

But it's painfully obvious that it doesn't work with that guy. You don't keep giving the addict his fix.

Time for some tough love.

I assume you are a very mean-spirited person, Herr LaGrassa.

(...but then again, Nick told me I am always wrong /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif )

I heard the best joke the other day, I would have posted it on the jokes thread, but its gone.

OK here's the joke...


Nick Kight.

I don't make it a habit nor enjoy putting other people down.
Just Nick..



really?

http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Board=Equipment&Number=406244&Searchpage=0&Main=405709&Search=true&#Post406244
http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Board=Players&Number=394202&Searchpage=0&Main=394191&Search=true&#Post394202
http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Board=Course%20Design%20&%20Installation&Number=361755&Searchpage=0&Main=361252&Search=true&#Post361755


Man, that seach feature is amazing.

Yeah...out of context quotes.....great post......




Is it time to renew my membership? Oh...I am still active...good

out of context?

the whole thread is there,

whatever, I'm done.

He is one of the few disc golfers I know, that knows the rule, follows the rules and calls the rules. Even on himself.



In light of the above statement, I think it appropriate to say that Nick has admitted to not calling the rules on this message board. (It was a foot fault, right Nick?) I am not saying this to be combative, only to encourage Mr. Cordle to take Mr. Kight off the precarious pedestal he has placed him on.

On the other portion of this thread, my opinion is not valid, because I was: a) not in the group, b) not at the tournament, c) have never met Jeff or Nick (both of whom I would probably enjoy playing golf with) d) never been to Warwick, e) think that unless someone is threatening me, what comes out of thier mouth is probably incidental.

I hope you two can resolve your issues. On the other hand, it's a big world. Maybe you'll never see each other again. :D

Morgan and Underparmikey don't count. :D

And without an identity, neither do your anonymous posts.

Then as per usual you are wrong again Robert.




I am always wrong.....how can that be? Maybe I should enter the school of "Nick's always right".

Let me correct my statement then.

It takes a lot to upset Nick.
And Nick never threatened Jeff with disciplinary action

Now I got it right, sorry Nick...I am always wrong. But wait a second...I am always wrong - that means what I just wrote is wrong again. How can I end this never-ending cycle of wrongness?



When did "usual" become "always"? And where exactly is my claim to "infallability"?

Jeff, has a special thing for me. I can live with that. That does not excuse him from behaving correctly towards guests at an event he is helping to staff.

He needs to know that. Problem is he clearly won't listen to me, his fellow volunteers, the PDGA Marshal, the Tournament Director, or the more reasonable voices here.

So who will he listen to?

I am sorry wittyusername.

I see now.

Jeff resonded to this

"Don't make the mistake of designing a course like Snowbowl where every hole plays about 380. LaGrassa really showed how little he knows about course design lauding that course in the new DGWN. To take a mountain as sweet as Snowbowl and end up with no 2-shot holes is about as boneheaded as it gets. "

and this (I have no idea what it means.....but it surely is another attack on him

"I know the loon will claim to have made it, but it looks like it's got a little too much hyzer to me. what do you think?"

and this

"I knew you were going to spend your honeymoon on the PDGA message board."


I thought you came up with links where Jeff started a argument. Keep looking...

Now I am relieved. I am usually wrong. That just means more than 50% of the time (next time just tell me when I am right...so I don't have to guess...because now it's like playing roulette...you know with betting on red or black....less than 50% of winning...get it?)...


So, last question: Did you, or did you not threaten Jeff with taking this matter to the disciplinary commitee.

If you did, then you are a - you know what - because you claimed that it was no big thing. And if you did, that is one lousy thing to do, after you told Dan and the Marshall....

If you didn't, then I guess Jeff is a liar, because he claims you did in his first post. But since you seem to avoid the issue of "the disciplinary commitee", I think Jeff is right....

...and Nick,

I am sorry to disaggree. I relly think thet you triggered Jeff starting this post...I can't help it.

Why would he wait until Thursday to post if he wanted to brag how he pushed your buttons?

Nick, you are over-reacting to something that most humans would have found to be at least mildy humorous. If you can't see that....then I don't know what to say.

With the history of your anti-2MR crusade, certainly you can see the humor in Jeff pointing that stuck disc out to you? Right? I mean, I'm all for sanctimonious self-righteousness and all, but this is taking that waaaay too far.

We all know that's why he got so upset about it. He incessantly argues with everyone about the 2m rule, and very condescendingly too, and then gets stuck in a tree 40'+. How fitting that it happened in front of Jeff, and Nick says he is thick-skinned...Either Jeff found the chink in the armor, or Nick is thick-skinned in the head only. I think its the latter /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Nick didnt get stuck in the tree. Someone else did :D

Wow. I just re-read the thread, and it wasn't Nick who got stuck. That means he is a complete dotard.

Wow. I just re-read the thread, and it wasn't Nick who got stuck. That means he is a complete dotard.



If Nick were 40 feet up in a tree, this message board would be dead, unless he brought his notebook with wireless access.

Um, 54 new posts this morning on this topic!!! Holy Jeez! I have to say I stopped reading after warwickdan said this,
I won't get into a public discussion about right or wrong, because i wasn't there when jeff made his comment, and because right or wrong is probably a perception rather than a universal truth.



Ahhh...sublime...

Man, and I thought me and my little brother got into petty arguments...

Nick, you are over-reacting to something that most humans would have found to be at least mildy humorous. If you can't see that....then I don't know what to say.

With the history of your anti-2MR crusade, certainly you can see the humor in Jeff pointing that stuck disc out to you? Right? I mean, I'm all for sanctimonious self-righteousness and all, but this is taking that waaaay too far.



As atested to by all those who were actually present, and even Jeff does not deny it, his intent was not humor, unless you consider it funny for an event staff person, even after being warned by other staff members, to intentionally try to F with a competitor.

As a TD Rhett, do you find that to be an attempt at "light humor"? How about as a player? A staff person then? OK, then what about someone just there?

No one thought it was funny then. And no one but the sickos think it is funny now.

It is and was a minor thing to me, I went on to play well enough to win my last 2 groups and cash. I believe the way I handled it was exactly correct. If Dan, Bill or even you (I suspect) were standing there (particularly after warning him against such behavior) and he did precisely what he did, you would I believe at least say to yourself, "Man! That was wrong." if not confront him after our group had passed.

To make a big deal about it right there and then would have been, precisely what Jeff was hoping for.

He needs to know that his behavior is unacceptable; regardless of the spin and fun we have with it here on the mess bored.

actually Nick once told me that if i ever called a foot fault, or ever called every rules violation possible, that he would do whatever it took to get me suspended if not thrown out of the PDGA.

yes, its true.

actually Nick once told me that if i ever called a foot fault, or ever called every rules violation possible, that he would do whatever it took to get me suspended if not thrown out of the PDGA.

yes, its true.



And completely "in context". :p

You must be learning new tricks from right wing pundits...

As atested to by all those who were actually present, and even Jeff does not deny it, his intent was not humor, unless you consider it funny for an event staff person, even after being warned by other staff members, to intentionally try to F with a competitor.

As a TD Rhett, do you find that to be an attempt at "light humor"? How about as a player? A staff person then? OK, then what about someone just there?

No one thought it was funny then. And no one but the sickos think it is funny now.

It is and was a minor thing to me, I went on to play well enough to win my last 2 groups and cash. I believe the way I handled it was exactly correct. If Dan, Bill or even you (I suspect) were standing there (particularly after warning him against such behavior) and he did precisely what he did, you would I believe at least say to yourself, "Man! That was wrong." if not confront him after our group had passed.

To make a big deal about it right there and then would have been, precisely what Jeff was hoping for.

He needs to know that his behavior is unacceptable; regardless of the spin and fun we have with it here on the mess bored.



I absolutely do deny it. The three of us spotting (Dan, Jim, me) exploded in laughter when Morgan got his disc stuck in a tree. I thought you'd get a kick out of it as well. Boy, was I wrong - and you even think that anyone who finds it funny now is a "sicko."

But it figures that you'd be hungup with the behavior of others - you're still in denial on your own. Remember, the whole incident started with you being an over-sensitive wuss.

As atested to by all those who were actually present, and even Jeff does not deny it, his intent was not humor, unless you consider it funny for an event staff person, even after being warned by other staff members, to intentionally try to F with a competitor.

As a TD Rhett, do you find that to be an attempt at "light humor"? How about as a player? A staff person then? OK, then what about someone just there?

No one thought it was funny then. And no one but the sickos think it is funny now.

It is and was a minor thing to me, I went on to play well enough to win my last 2 groups and cash. I believe the way I handled it was exactly correct. If Dan, Bill or even you (I suspect) were standing there (particularly after warning him against such behavior) and he did precisely what he did, you would I believe at least say to yourself, "Man! That was wrong." if not confront him after our group had passed.

To make a big deal about it right there and then would have been, precisely what Jeff was hoping for.

He needs to know that his behavior is unacceptable; regardless of the spin and fun we have with it here on the mess bored.



I absolutely do deny it. The three of us spotting (Dan, Jim, me) exploded in laughter when Morgan got his disc stuck in a tree. I thought you'd get a kick out of it as well. Boy, was I wrong - and you even think that anyone who finds it funny now is a "sicko."

But it figures that you'd be hungup with the behavior of others - you're still in denial on your own. Remember, the whole incident started with you being an over-sensitive wuss.



Yes, you are always looking out for me. How could I misconstrue your constant good naturedness towards me? Of course you did it for my enjoyment...

Good grief! As if lying to the rest of us wasn't enough, you can't even tell the truth to yourself. C'mon Jeff.

I have a question:

Did it really get in your head, Nick? I am genuinely curious.

I have a question:

Did it really get in your head, Nick? I am genuinely curious.



That's what he told the Marshall and the TD to get sympathy from them for his cause. Of course, now he denies it. Who's the liar?

I have a question:

Did it really get in your head, Nick? I am genuinely curious.



For the moment it took me to say to myself, "Jeff LaGrassa, figures." Then to let Dan know when I saw him 2 minutes later. Other than that I didn't give it a second thought until I got on here Tuesday and saw Jeff bragging about it.

Can I count on you to paraphrase that correctly? Or are you going to say that I don't call rules, when the actual case is I do as much as most everyone else and more often than some... or that I would try to get someone dqed for calling the rules, when what I really said is that I would try to get someone dqed for vindictively and spitefully calling the rules out of revenge?

You really do gotta love this stuff. Lord of the Flies type of stuff...

Nick is still ignoring my question

Did you, or did you not threaten Jeff with taking this matter to the disciplinary commitee.

If you did, then you are a - you know what - because you claimed that it was no big thing. And if you did, that is one lousy thing to do, after you told Dan and the Marshall....

If you didn't, then I guess Jeff is a liar, because he claims you did in his first post. But since you seem to avoid the issue of "the disciplinary commitee", I think Jeff is right....




Third time I asked him this, and still no response. Oh well, so I guess you did what Jeff claimed.

Nick, you are a [insert whatever is appropriate here]for threatening to bring this to the disciplinary commitee. You had your little revenge by crying to Dan and the Marshall. I don't know why you're doing [insert whatever is appropriate here]like this.

Nick wrote:


Other than that I didn't give it a second thought until I got on here Tuesday and saw Jeff bragging about it.



I guess there is another thread out there, 'cause according to the date-stamp this one here was started yesterday and not Tuesday. Maybe Nick can provide a link to Tuesday's discussion, so that we can get a better picture.

nick engaged in revenge???

oh dear... :o

Nick, shut the F up and go crawl under your bridge.

Lord of the Flies type of stuff...



If you think your situation is akin to Piggy in Lord of the Flies, you have an option that wasn't available to him - leaving the island. :D

Robert,

As if the "truth" were a matter than could be found here...

Read the threads yourself:

http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/newreply.php?Cat=&Board=OtherPDGATopics&Number=428450&page=&view=&what=showflat&sb=5&o=&fpart=5&vc=1&q=1

Debate about disc golf (redux) (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=427684&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=13&vc=1)

Proving something to someone who bases their reality and opinion of someone on this board is lunacy.

Let's just see how it plays out in that other reality, you know, the one some of us like to call the "real" world.

I've sent you a PM. I think there was a misunderstanding here.

actually Nick once told me that if i ever called a foot fault, or ever called every rules violation possible, that he would do whatever it took to get me suspended if not thrown out of the PDGA.

yes, its true.



And completely "in context". :p

You must be learning new tricks from right wing pundits...



Uhoh...is Nick a fellow democrat? This could cause problems for the fellow democrats like me who are all for leaving the 2 meter rule the way it was. I mean geez, the 2 meter rule is MUCH (emphasis added to show sarcasm) more important than anything else in the world. I may have to start shunning politically like minded people!

nick is a democrat about most things. but when it comes to the 2MR, he becomes a Bushite, complete with the "my way or the highway" and the "anyone who doesnt think my way is a terrorist" rhetoric.

he even has a flunkie or two around to spout the same nonsense he spouts but with even less logic... kinda like the job Rumsfeld does for W.

but unfortunately he has no equivalent to Karl Rove, so sadly unlike his president, Nick remains brainless

Sometimes I get the eerie feeling that Papa Bush, Rove and Cheney are running the show. Not just Rove....But obviously this is a thread drift, so I will stop.

Oh how sad, sad it all is.

Can we have a soap opera for PDGA radio. Like a daily 5 minute broadcast of the continuing saga of he said, he said?

Yeah, RL....are you in it Nick? I mean, I mean...do you work for a living, do you have a family? Do you have a life outside the PDGA? I am starting to have doubts...

Solving a RL problem. "I can't answer him, I am in the middle of a round. I can't say one sentence to him...".

"Let me talk to other people while I am playing, 'cause I have time for that...and I can explain to them what's going on..."

"I am back in the real life...it's Monday, so I can post and post and post for hours.....just because I really don't want to talk to Jeff....it upsets me....maybe a sentence could have avoided this whole situation. I can threaten him, then say I didn't mean it...Hahahah, I am funny"

If it was so important or unimportant to you, you could have talked to Jeff maybe after your round was over. But I get the feeling you are scared. Scared that you hear something from him that you don't want to hear.


Ohhhh, it's just sooo sad. Grow up....you're how old? I think you are a "Beleidigte Leberwurst" ?


:D

It was Jeff -- not Nick -- that started this whole discussion. If you guys don't like Nick's message board behavior why do you keep egging him on? :confused:

it really isn't much different than the Salem witch trials:

is Nick a witch? Throw him in OB water, if he doesn't sink -- he's a witch! [insert vomiting smiley here]

does the right honorable gentleman concede that if Nick were on his side of the fence when it came to the 2 meter penalty -- he would be quite willing to welcome Nick into his camp and would even praise Nick for his tenacious qualities? :D:D :D

Well, we burn a witch....soooo wood burns, right? Is Nick made of wood?

But also, wood floats....and what else floats? --- A duck ---

Now if Nick weighs more than a duck...well then he must be a witch, right?

you sure seem to spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about Nick... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

It was Jeff -- not Nick -- that started this whole discussion.



True, but Jeff responded to Nick's threats...

(but then again...I am most likely wrong)

you sure seem to spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about Nick... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



just like you :D

Plus I have to prepare, since I am gonna see Spamalot on Wednesday. Gotta refresh my witch-hunt knowledge.

if you have such a big problem with Nick maybe you should dissociate yourself with this DISCussion board which he monitors :D

while my only association with Nick has been on this message board, i used to just see Nick as a tenacious, sometimes all too serious, PDGA volunteer who made himself difficult to argue against. then i found out his position on the 2 meter penalty was the same as mine, Chuck Kennedy's, Carlton Howard's and a slew of other quite sane disc golfers and he became significantly easier to appreciate and applaud :eek: That becomes a no brainer when you hear others describe his on the course behavior and the amount of time he volunteers to our sport. didn't he win some prestigious award recently? :o

he's the kind of thorough arguer you don't like when he's on the other side, but who you welcome when he is on yours.

it really might be much easier for you to just agree with him and move on :D

if you have such a big problem with Nick maybe you should dissociate yourself with this DISCussion board which he monitors :D



I don't have a problem with him. Why do you think I do? I just like like to push his buttons two or three times per year, and he knows why.

I absolutely do deny it. The three of us spotting (Dan, Jim, me) exploded in laughter when Morgan got his disc stuck in a tree. I thought you'd get a kick out of it as well. Boy, was I wrong - and you even think that anyone who finds it funny now is a "sicko."



OK, first let's clarify this one. JEFF laughed when Morgan's disc got stuck. Jim and I were spotting, Jeff was (as usual) doing nothing and just hanging out with us when Morgan's group threw. Jim and I did not laugh. Morgan threw a shot that would have been quite a bomb had it not caught the top branch of the tallest tree on the hole.

Robert, we have played a few rounds together and I think you are a pretty cool guy (well, except for the fake German accent), :D but you are on the wrong side this time. As plainly and simply as I can put it, Jeff should have kept his mouth shut. His comment was loud, and in a tone that could only be called 'provoking'(I'm not sure if there is a 'provoking' tone of voice, but if there is, he used it.) He has complained on this thread about Nick 'tattling' on him. Well, think about it, only people that do something wrong get tattled on. Little Freudian slip there, Jeff?

Jeff did it to get a rise out of Nick. He won't admit it, and I'd never be able to prove it in court, but I'd wager a week's pay on it in a heartbeat (well, not my pay, but someone's else's pay if they make a lot less than me.)

The fact that Jeff felt a need to start this thread about an incident that should have been forgotten about 17 seconds after it happened is truly sad. The Skylands Classic at Warwick was a great event and Jeff has now tainted what otherwise was a great weekend.

Hey Dan,

It's funny how my comment to Nick went from 'loud' earlier in the week to now 'loud and provoking.' Seems like it's becoming more and more exaggerated in your mind.

And spare me the 'tainted' crap - this affected nobody else at the tournament and even Nick admitted this did little to him in the grand scheme of things. Bottom line is that if Nick wasn't a such big baby and didn't get all bent out of shape, there wouldn't have been an issue, and besides - nobody really cares what happens to Nick anyway since he's lost everyone's respect with his attitude and behavior on the message boards.

Jeff, you're right the incident affected no one, not even you and Nick, but the thread and lasting conversation about the incident has had some effect on many people. Whether anyone remembers the event where it happened and associates it with the discussion probably depends on how long you kkeep it alive. I think that is the taint he is referring to.

yes it sure has a lasting effect. i havent stop laughing since it happened!

thanks Jeff!!!

Yea, Gary, you're probably right. But from the start, I was willing to bet that people would remember more what a pansy Nick was and not the specific tournament. And if the TD declines to have me back as a staff member next year, then I'll have to live with that. Right now it was worth it to expose Nick as the fraud of a man he really is.

I think I would have said the same thing to Nick in jest. But then I can laugh at myself.

I think you exposed yourself as well. This is right up there with Scooter and M. Wade posting PMs from Pimp and Rhett respectively. All of these episodes seem really silly and immature to me.
You guys need to shake hands and put this behind you. This thing is blown way out of proportion to what really matters in life.

I was already exposed long ago! :DIt's Nick's reputation that was at stake, and he showed his true colors.

Yea, Gary, you're probably right. But from the start, I was willing to bet that people would remember more what a pansy Nick was and not the specific tournament. And if the TD declines to have me back as a staff member next year, then I'll have to live with that. Right now it was worth it to expose Nick as the fraud of a man he really is.



Based upon the response of the TD upthread as well as your continued inability to let this go -- you are probably making more of a statement about yourself via this thread than you are about Nick. Those that we let get under our skin can often be our best teachers -- provided we listen to the lesson...

17 new replies, on a dumb topic that should've died, since Friday!??!??

You all should turn off your computer's walk away and go play some disc golf.

And if the TD declines to have me back as a staff member next year, then I'll have to live with that. Right now it was worth it to expose Nick as the fraud of a man he really is.



Gee, Jeff, why would the TD not ask the self-proclaimed scoring director back? I mean, maybe he'd want someone that would show up sometime BEFORE the cards come in after the first round. It's probably going to be hard for him to find someone as skilled as you are at sitting on the tee on hole 4 for the entire day that can do nothing but upload scores to the PDGA site and post made up stories on the board.

You were a deek. I know it. Jim knows it. Nick knows it. You just won't admit it.

I'm pretty sure DD can find a chihuahua that can accomplish what you did over the weekend, except the chihuahuh would drool less.

****, that's funny.

17 new replies, on a dumb topic that should've died, since Friday

<font color="blue"> don't forget to mention that a thread that is even more inane than this one has been recently started in a similar vein -- see "Kight vs. ..." </font>

You all should turn off your computer's walk away and go play some disc golf.



<font color="blue"> when you say "you" does that include yourself? :confused: :D</font>

I was a democrat. I am still registered as one. But I am ashamed of their tacit complacency in the illadvised actions going on right now in this "War on Sanity". Also of their [I'm a potty-mouth!] footing around during the last elections. Bush needed to be taken on directly over all of his blunders, blunders that did a lot more than stain a party dress. Blunders that involve tens of thousands of deaths and an increasing hatred of the United States of America (not to mention actually fostering recruitment for islamic fighters in the middle east and our back yard).

There is no other word for it than "foolishness".

"Staying the Path" when it is clearly the wrong path is just that.

(similar to, but on an incomparably smaller level, with keeping an unnecessary rule like the 2 meter rule going. Such dunderheadedness is a Bush tendency)

I came in and checked email after a recent tournament so I feel as though I am not one of the you in you should go out and play some golf

are you getting this thread via email? :confused:

as for playign disc golf -- you're preaching to the choir. i played a 4 round B tier this weekend

if you set up a thread as a "favorite" you will get email notices

if ajones has this thread listed as a favorite and has the option to receive email updates regarding this thread turned on -- me thinks he doest protest too much /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

my sentiments exactly

Yup, I have every VERY important thread turned to favorite with email updates. How did you guys guess?

*BUMP*

Only like 12 posts yesterday? is the thread dead? Is the soap opera over?


or did somone forget to post the "To Be Continued..."

*BUMP*

Only like 12 posts yesterday? is the thread dead? Is the soap opera over?

or did somone forget to post the "To Be Continued..."



I hear that Nick sent a letter to the Disciplinary Committee.

I can only imagine what spin he will put on it, but here are the facts for the Committee: At a tournament, a certified rules official pointed out a disc over 2m to Nick. I said "Look, there's a disc 40 feet up in a tree and you said that never happens."

Nothing more.

Jeff, you are projecting :D and nick predicted it :eek: not only is nick never wrong about the past, but he is never wrong about the future either :D therefore, the DC is sure to strip you of your offical's certification, fine you 10,000 and issue a lifetime ban

I hear that Nick sent a letter to the Disciplinary Committee.

I can only imagine what spin he will put on it, but here are the facts for the Committee: At a tournament, a certified rules official pointed out a disc over 2m to Nick. I said "Look, there's a disc 40 feet up in a tree and you said that never happens."

Nothing more.



Do you still not get how inappropriate that was? Nick has never said discs do not get stuck at 40 feet -- that is simply absurd. He was involved in a tournament round. If you respected that you would have let it alone. Is it true the disc that got stuck wasn't even thrown by someone on Nick's card?

Nick may have wanted to officially note what happened in case it becomes a pattern. Hopefully it won't and you two can put this behind you.

Am I not allowed to talk to anyone during a tournament round? Or just Nick Kight?

It would be impossible to try and find it with a search, but I was under the impression that Nick has previously intimated that discs don't get stuck 40 feet up in a tree. All I did was say one sentence to him. Even if I was playing in the tournament, which I wasn't, was pointing out a disc up in a tree a rules violation? A courtesy violation?

Are there rules for spectators? How about spectators who happen to be PDGA members?

Nick wants you to believe that the answer to all these questions is yes, when it's really no.

Who cares. He cried and whined like a little girl to the TD because you TALKED to him during his round. Thats the bottom line.

Maybe if you had yelled and said "Hey Nick you panzy ace [I'm a potty-mouth!]. You say disc never get stuck 40 up in a tree??? Well check this out you whiny little BIOTCH!!! Theres a disc 40 ft up in that tree. What do you have to say about that you crack head." Then maybe he would have a reason to be upset but thats not what you did or what you said so hes pretty much just acting like a toddler and crying because you made him look dumb infront of the people in his group. Atleast thats what I have gotten out of the whole situation.

I propose a new rule for 2006...no talking during disc golf rounds. No talking to TDs, officials, RCs,RAs, anyone on your card, anyone not on your card, animals, discs, trees, etc. In fact, how bout we make the rule that you can't even talk to anyone ever if it pertains to disc golf. Wait, better idea, no talking EVER, TO ANYONE, ANYWHERE, FOR ANY REASON.
I think this rule will solve all the problems with disc golf and everything else.

I'm putting it on Nick to submit this rule. Of course, he may have some trouble submitting it seeing as how trying to submit the rule would be in direct violation of the rule. What a perdicament.

thats what this board is for. the Rules Committee watches this board closely, and will jump right on it, if such a proposal is actually made.

the best way to start is to start two threads - one for discussion and one for a poll :D

Oh, and don't forget to either word the topic of the poll in such a way as to tell your own opinion or else slant the answer choices to fit your own opinion. The msgboard should be a place for non-scientific, opinion only banter. There should be no way to definitively prove your point. Only rhetoric and unfounded conclusions allowed.

-Please note: This post is to make fun of all arguing including my own forays into the debates that are most active in this community. This post was not directed at anyone in particular except for you. Yes, you, whoever is reading this post.

Whomever?

grammar be damned

...just my annoying contribution. :D

At a recent PDGA event, a competitor got a disc stuck up in a tree. A few minutes later, Nick Kight's group came through the same hole. He has often intimated on the 2m threads on the Discussion Board that discs NEVER stick 40 feet up in a tree. Well, here was a classic example of that and I pointed it out to Nick. I said "Look, there's a disc 40 feet up in a tree and you said that never happens." This was during a break in the action and well before the next competitor got to his lie.

What does he do next? He says nothing, but then later complains to the Marshall and TD that I "got into his head."

Today, Nick has claimed that pointing out a disc stuck in the tree was rude behavior, and has threatened to take the matter to the PDGA Disciplinary Committee. I don't agree that it's discourteous to point something out to him during a tournament. I brought up a rules issue, and I would do the exact same thing again at another event if given the opportunity.

So what do you all think? Gross misconduct on my part, or is Nick Kight simply a crybaby?




I say [I'm a potty-mouth!] poor etiquette. I consider you my friend Jeff and if I had the chance to speak with Nick, I am sure he would be one as well. I respect what he has to say on the boards even if I don't totally agree with all of it and the same goes for you. I feel that you are portraying things a little differently then as they were though. If you consider the middle of a round while walking to your lie a break in the action then I have to disagree with you.

What does he do next? He says nothing, but then later complains to the Marshall and TD that I "got into his head."




What did you expect him to do? Was he supposed to start discussing the 2 meter rule with you in the middle of the round and at an NT event no less? He did the mature thing by not saying anything to you. When he happened to run into Dan a few minutes later he asked him to say something to you and with every right. If someone (be it competitor, spectator, or staff) intentionally tried to rattle me during a round (which is what you did) I know I would be very upset. He didn�t go searching for Dan and may not have even said anything at all if it hadn�t been for the fact that he happened to see him within a few minutes of it happening. Would you have been just as comfortable interrupting the round of Ken Climo or any of the other players to discuss something that they may have said on a message board or in any conversation they may have had with you? Somehow I don�t think so. You said �


Alas, being a thorn in the side of Nick sometimes feels like a job, but somebody's gotta do it!



That statement sums up what all of this is about and everyone knows it. On the boards it is one thing, but during play it is wrong and from what my understanding is of the conversation Dan had with you Jeff, I suspect you know that it was wrong too. I think you should have just left it at that and that you carried it too far by creating this thread. Discussion is one thing but personal attacks are another and that is what I see as the intent of this thread. For all those that have had fun joining in, I just have to say that I can�t for a minute imagine that if someone with which you may have a strained relationship with, or of which has what seems to me to be true hate, did the same or wrote the same about you that you wouldn�t have said something to the TD or come on here to defend yourself in the same way Nick did.

Why is it so hard to disagree without taking it personally?

Because it was personal.

Wow, HEY!!!.....you kids better behave. :D

Puppies people...puppies!!

http://userpages.itis.com/hi_jinx/puppies.gif

Don't make me bring out the kittens in mittens!

What did you expect him to do?



I expected him to either chuckle, comment back something like "Well, I guess they do get stuck 40 feet up" or ignore it completely, Jeannie.

That's what anyone else in the world would do. Only fragile Nick Kight goes crying to the Disc Police and writes a letter to the Disciplinary Committee.

I guess it was just my impression that the two of you don't have a chuckling kind of relationship.

You could always twinkle your nose and MAKE them be best friends. LOL :D

I think that would be Tabithas way. Jeannie's way would be to fold the arms and nod. It tried it and it didn't work. It didn't work when I wished you away either :D

Who cares. He cried and whined like a little girl to the TD because you TALKED to him during his round. Thats the bottom line.

Maybe if you had yelled and said "Hey Nick you panzy ace [I'm a potty-mouth!]. You say disc never get stuck 40 up in a tree??? Well check this out you whiny little BIOTCH!!! Theres a disc 40 ft up in that tree. What do you have to say about that you crack head." Then maybe he would have a reason to be upset but thats not what you did or what you said so hes pretty much just acting like a toddler and crying because you made him look dumb infront of the people in his group. Atleast thats what I have gotten out of the whole situation.



given the history between these two, the impression i get is that Jeff's comments in letter may have been unobjectionable but in connotation may have been much closer to what you wrote above. Upthread, when Rhett asked the TD to weigh in, and he sided with Nick :eek:

Jeannie -- Your initial post in this silliness was about as well-crafted an argument as I've seen on this message board. Excellent effort.

Sometimes animosity rules -- hopefully it goes away quietly.

What did you expect him to do?



I expected him to either chuckle, comment back something like "Well, I guess they do get stuck 40 feet up" or ignore it completely, Jeannie.



I still prefer Chuck Kennedy's suggested response: (paraphrasing) "if you'll look at the big picture Jeff, you can see adding a penalty stroke foir this stick is double jeopardy. Plus the thrower can't retrieve his disc to use to finish the round."

I would have Nick add: "Jeff, since you have made it your personal duty to harass me, if you want to discuss the merits of the elimination of the 2 meter rule, i suggest you find someone whose perspective you can honestly listen to -- and better yet, wait until after the completion of this NT event." /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I think that would be Tabithas way. Jeannie's way would be to fold the arms and nod. It tried it and it didn't work. It didn't work when I wished you away either :D



:eek: :o:D:D:DFROTFLMAO

I think it would be really funny if Nick has only said that he sent a letter to the DC, just to eff with Jeff.

It is really sad if Nick actually sent such a thing.

I think that would be Tabithas way. Jeannie's way would be to fold the arms and nod. It tried it and it didn't work. It didn't work when I wished you away either :D



The question is, would her belly button be showing? I wager not.

I think it would be really funny if Nick has only said that he sent a letter to the DC, just to eff with Jeff.

It is really sad if Nick actually sent such a thing.



Rhett, not for the first time, your complete and total ignorance of all details having to do with this issue are showing. Not to mention your strange inclination towards believing the worst in someone you have never met or known.

Disappointing.

Jeff has said at least 5 times on here that he will do the same thing again. With dunderheads like you egging him on he will go on thinking that his behavior, of which you have no direct knowledge, is ok. This to the regret of PDGA, The National Tour, The TD, The Volunteers of those events, and to the players of those events what will have to spend even one second of time wondering if Jeff LaGrassa is going to try and show off his disrespectful arrogance again in the middle of their round.

He needs to accept that he was and is now wrong.

If he won't take my word for it, or the word of his fellow volunteers, or the event TD, or the present PDGA Marshal, then what is left? (Besides the regulars witch hunters at the PDGA Mess Bored boeying his false idea of himself.)

Who will say to him, "Dude, shut up! That is just inappropriate and wrong. And you are only making it worse on yourself and everyone else."

Who is it going to be?

not me. the only thing i'm gonna say is this:

"Nick, grow a skin!"

:D

not me. the only thing i'm gonna say is this:

"Nick, grow a skin!"

:D



Ditto for you Pat. Learn a little before you start mouthing off on something you know zero about.

i know more than zero about it.

for example, i know that disc was stuck 40' up in a tree. and i know that according to your scientific calculations, that represents an event that beat some incredibly long odds.

geez, i probably would have blurted something out myself - what a sense of wonder you must have experienced when you witnessed firsthand that very unlikely event!

"Witch hunt" is the NK Phrase of the Week. Coming to every thread near you, ad naseum...

"Witch hunt" is the NK Phrase of the Week. Coming to every thread near you, ad naseum...



Why? What would you label it? Balanced factual discussion by folks with first hand knowledge and unbiased views of those involved of which they know personally? :p

Just make it !!!!
http://www.centxdglove.com/putterman.gif http://www.centxdglove.com/putterman.gif

Just make it !!!!
http://www.centxdglove.com/putterman.gif http://www.centxdglove.com/putterman.gif



Don't DNF.............

I have a question about pdga points and ties:

If two players tie for a win in whatever division and it is played off, do they both get the same number of PDGA points for that event or does the player who won the playoff get more?

At this tournament (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=5120) the winner of the playoff in Am Master got points for first and the loser got points for second. For some reason it is the only playoff that I can think of off the top of my head.

Ties for all positions except first place share points. First place ties are played off and are no longer considered ties.

That is based on my memory since I can't really find anything in writing to back it up.

Ties for all positions except first place share points. First place ties are played off and are no longer considered ties.

That is based on my memory since I can't really find anything in writing to back it up.



PDGA Rules of Play

804.07.C

Final ties for first place must be broken by sudden death play...Final ties for other ranks shall be officially recorded as ties...

PDGA Rules of Play

804.07.C

Final ties for first place must be broken by sudden death play...Final ties for other ranks shall be officially recorded as ties...


What if there is a three-way tie for first. They play the first sudden-death hole and two people birdie while the other one pars.

Does the player who got the par end up in 3rd place or in a tie for 2nd?

PDGA Rules of Play

804.07.C

Final ties for first place must be broken by sudden death play...Final ties for other ranks shall be officially recorded as ties...


What if there is a three-way tie for first. They play the first sudden-death hole and two people birdie while the other one pars.

Does the player who got the par end up in 3rd place or in a tie for 2nd?



I've made this call before at one of my tournaments. The way I call it, based on the rule cited above, is that the person who wins the playoff is in 1st and the other two are tied for second no matter how they finished in the playoff.

^^^^That's how it has always been ruled here. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Except, where the trophies go three or four deep, like in most of our larger amateur divisions, all those tie breakers count towards the trophies.

True, it does count toward the trophies, but shouldn't count towards the reported finish.

It is usually up to the players if the prizes beyond the trophies are split or played off. Most elect to split.

I've seen open pros do a similar thing. Split the payout and playoff just for the honor of it.

OK, but back to the PDGA points, do all agree that the player who wins the playoff for first gets more points than the player they beat in the playoff?

We dont have to all agree, it is a rule, so it IS that way.

Hey, I have no axe to grind on this one, actually just looking for a model to help figure out some local "Calvert Points"

I wasnt trying to come off harsh. I was just pointing it out...guess i should have used smilies.... :D

I would say the playoff winner won the tournament and should get more points.

You could also argue that in a series setting, the playoffs are irrevelant and should not count towards series points.

If you follow the PDGA reporting guidelines, you can blame the PDGA if wnyone complains. :)

At our series we award points for the players you beat, but not the players you tie. I think the PDGA gives you points for the players you tie other than the tie for first which is broken. Not awarding points for ties turned out to be the deciding factor at the finals to decide one of the overall trophy spots in Intermediate.

My Appoligies for getting off topic here , but how much etiquette is needed , per group ?

Smoking ? Farting ? Burping ? Coughing ? Sneezing ? Talking ? Laughing ? Yelling ? :eek:

My Appoligies for getting off topic here , but how much etiquette is needed , per group ?

Smoking ? Farting ? Burping ? Coughing ? Sneezing ? Talking ? Laughing ? Yelling ? :eek:

Two cups and 3 ounces per group is usually sufficient, unless the TD is doing fivesomes.

Yea , that poor 5th man standing , has his work cut out !!!!!

Four !!!!!! Watch out for standing water !!!!!

El Dorado Park DGC.
http://www.centxdglove.com/uploads/Eldo_Flooded_thumb-217.jpg (http://www.centxdglove.com/uploads/Eldo_Flooded_Web-217.jpg)Click, etc.

Now that is alot of So.Cal. Water !!!!!