Ok, so prior to my having learned to throw correctly this past weekend, I used my Wasp(s) to control my distance. No matter how hard I'd throw the thing, it would get out to about 250-260' and stop. This was great, because I never had to worry about overshooting the basket.

However, yesterday I went out to my home course to practice my new-found driving technique. Hole 1's short tee is 333 ft. from the basket. This is a perfect distance for me, because it's close to my "new" maximum range. So I emptied my bag at this basket 6 or 7 times. The results? A little crazy...

a. My Teebird goes almost exactly 333 ft., along with several other drivers (Orc, Viking), but NOT my Valkyries, which I've always been able to throw longer than anything else in my bag. My Valks topped out at 300-310' yesterday. Now, keep in mind that this was a new throwing form for me, so even though these discs went this far, it was rarely in the exact direction that I wanted.

b. My Wasp went almost exactly 320' every single time... right where I wanted it. WTF? My Wasp now goes longer than my Valks (all of them, I have four... 170,166,175,and 146 (roller))

So, this has to say something about my technique. Problem is, I don't know what. Why is my Wasp going only 10' short of my Orc and Viking, and longer than my Valkyrie? Anybody?

BTW: There was a tailwind (10-15mph)

I appreciate any insight anyone can give me into this. Thanks!

I have a couple questions before I say anything. What flight path were all your discs taking. Flat Hyzer AnnHyzer S Shot???

Second. How were you releasing all these discs. Were you releasing them all the same or were you changing it up for every different disc???

If you can answer those questions I may be able to give you some insight into why your Wasps are going further than your Valks. I have a couple ideas but dont want to say anything without knowing the above things.

Hope I can help you

there's been about 6 threads across the past few months relating to "midranges going as far as drivers."

guessing it's nose angle/height related.

sounds like you have entered the fun part of DG where you get to learn to limit your wasp's D w/ angles, height, and grip.

Well, I was trying to throw them all the same (flat). But, like I said above, because I'm still getting used to the X-step there were some disasters... the results I posted above are averages assuming a somewhat decent throw (didn't release late and have the disc go spiraling off right and directly into the ground, etc...

Now, because I was releasing them all flat, they took different flight paths... my orc went straight then faded, the viking turned over and then faded, as did my valks (with varying degrees of turnover depending on the weight). My Wasps (170 and 177+, although the 170 was the one going 320... the 177+ was more like 300) didn't really turn over, just went straight and then faded (a harder fade for the heavier Wasp)

As far as height, I tried to throw them all the same, but the tailwind was wreaking havoc on the height. On average, I would say they all flew about 15-20 ft. off the ground at their peak.

I hope the above info helps, and I appreciate your taking the time to take a look at this. Another small question... If I can throw a Wasp 320', then that means somwhere deep inside of me I've got the potential to throw 400'+, right? I mean it may take a lot of practice, but I can't help but think that...

Well, I was trying to throw them all the same (flat). But, like I said above, because I'm still getting used to the X-step there were some disasters... the results I posted above are averages assuming a somewhat decent throw (didn't release late and have the disc go spiraling off right and directly into the ground, etc...

Now, because I was releasing them all flat, they took different flight paths... my orc went straight then faded, the viking turned over and then faded, as did my valks (with varying degrees of turnover depending on the weight). My Wasps (170 and 177+, although the 170 was the one going 320... the 177+ was more like 300) didn't really turn over, just went straight and then faded (a harder fade for the heavier Wasp) <font color="orange"> The way I see it if you throw all your discs flat and hard the Mids are going to go almost as far due to the simple fact that they are taking a DIRECT path straight at the target and they have LOTS of glide. Where as your drivers are going to start hyzering off therefore taking away from your distance. If you want to throw the Orcs for more distance your going to have to add a little height and a little annyhyzer to them on your realease. This will give the disc enough time and room to work and reach its distance potential. Its sounds like you were prolly getting the most distance out of your Vikings as they were able to turn over glide and then flex out. So I wouldnt worry about those. Maybe give them a little more height with the same release and that will result in more distance. Sounds like your Valks may have been turning over hard gliding and trying to fight back at the end which mean they werent getting any distance what so ever. This is why your Wasp were flying further then your valks. Its my expierience that to get max Distance out of a Valk you need to throw a high hyzer flip so that it flips up and over glides out for a LONG time and then starts to S Back at the end. In my expierience the more understable a disc is the HIGHER you have to throw it to get max distance out of it so that it has time to work out of the turn it will inevitably (sp?) take from the snap of our throw. </font>

As far as height, I tried to throw them all the same, but the tailwind was wreaking havoc on the height. On average, I would say they all flew about 15-20 ft. off the ground at their peak. <font color="orange"> See above statement for height tips </font>

I hope the above info helps, and I appreciate your taking the time to take a look at this. <font color="orange"> No problem man. Anytime. I know what it was like starting out and not having anyone to explain anything to me. I pretty much just watched other people and taught myself untill this year when I got some help from a few of the best pros on the planet. IE Brad Hammock, Kenny "The Champ" Climo, Dave Feldburg and Avery Jenkins. </font> Another small question... If I can throw a Wasp 320', then that means somwhere deep inside of me I've got the potential to throw 400'+, right? <font color="orange"> I would say you for sure have the potential. In my opinion almost ANYONE has the potential to throw 400+ as long as they are pretty athletic and dont have any physical ailments or problems. You just have to find the right disc and the right timing and BOOM youll all the sudden be able to throw 400. </font> I mean it may take a lot of practice, but I can't help but think that... <font color="orange"> Your right it will prolly take a bunch of practice because just like anything else I believe distance is a SKILL that can be learned and practiced so if you work hard enough at it you should be able to throw 400 no prob. Although i reccomend working on you upshots and putting before you worry about throwing over 400. I did it the opposite way and if I could start all over I would learn to putt and throw great upshots before I learned to throw 400 ft because you look alot better throwing short drives and making killer upshots and putts then you do parking a 400ft hole then missing a 20 footer </font>



I hope that helped you. Its kind of hard to tell someone something or give them advice without actually seeing them throw but I hope I was close and I hope I helped you out.

Good luck and keep up the practice :D

One other thing I did notice that might be a factor is that your midrange is Discraft and all your drivers are Innova :eek: JK JK Plastic is plastic. The better you are the better your plastic flys. No matter who makes it.

This is just an observation and an addition to Steve's advice.

Mids, like the Wasp are easier to control and will "self correct" more mistakes then a driver will. Especially pertaining to a disc that is thrown with it's nose slightly too high. A driver will be more effected by the nose up orientation then a mid range. You may be having release angle problems. BlakeT clears some confusion in another thread that, when talking about having the nose up on the disc, it is referring to the orientation of the nose of the disc and its flight path, not the orientation to the ground, after all you cannot throw a disc 20ft in the air without the nose up to the ground.

I myself was in Steve's situation when I started playing. I was able to break 400ft after 3 months of playing. However it took me over a year to start making consistent putts inside 30ft. Don't be incredibly absorbed with gaining distance. Work on putts, approaches, overhands, rollers, and trick shots like upside down skips and hook shots to get your self out of trouble. Because if you can save a three from anywhere, you will be strokes ahead of your competition.

big dg summed a lot of it up, i will add where i can.

the height you mentioned seemed to be ideal for the wasp and teebird for those distances as those are discs you can surely reach their cruise speeds at your power level.

as for the other discs, the orc especially, you need a lot more speed and/or more nose down to get them finishing nose down and in the forward direction. with those discs, you will most likely have to throw them lower as at your power level, you will not have enough speed to keep the disc nose down in the 15-20' of height range. i would be gunning for the 8-12' of height range with those discs.

the only thing i disagree w/ big dg about is that all drivers need to be turned over for good golf D. with most discs, the distance differential on a turned over drive vs. one that hits "stable" and stays straight is about 1-3%. there are a handful where the difference will be more like 5%, but turning over can be a predictability gamble to try and squeeze out a few extra feet of D.

a lot of this depends on how much nose down you get on your drives. throwing a line drive that turns will always increase the nose down as the disc turns over since the annie angle on the disc as it turns will correspond to the change in the nose of the disc with its change in trajectory. if you get enough nose down for the disc to finish nose down on a straight shot that never turns, the distance difference will be slight.

i agree that w/ 320' wasp d you have 400' potential in you right now, it has just yet to be harnessed.

the only thing i disagree w/ big dg about is that all drivers need to be turned over for good golf D. with most discs, the distance differential on a turned over drive vs. one that hits "stable" and stays straight is about 1-3%. there are a handful where the difference will be more like 5%, but turning over can be a predictability gamble to try and squeeze out a few extra feet of D.



I agree with you in terms of "golf shot distance" but for pure distance the huge stable out anny is the way to go. I will agree tha the flat stable shot is alot easier to control when trying to throw a golf shot and I would not recomend turning a disc over on a golf shot just to get a couple extra feet of D. I NEVER try to throw as far as I can on the course. I leave that for the field and Distance comps.

Hopefully what we both said will help this guy get to that 400 mark.

If Blake says im a little of on some things I would listen to him because he prolly knows more about the technical stuff then I do. I just try to lay it out in laymans terms and from what I have expierienced.

Good luck and let us know WHEN you hit 400 :D

As to throwing 400'+, with the discs out today anyone can if they are willing to learn.

If you can throw a WASP 300+ then you will be able to throw 400 once you learn the proper technuiqe.

Try throwing putters, you'll probably be suprised how far they go.

Is the wasp longer than the roc? I won a Z and am liking it.

Is the wasp longer than the roc? I won a Z and am liking it.



Can you say 12 dollar Champ Roc :eek:

Is the wasp longer than the roc? I won a Z and am liking it.



Can you say 12 dollar Champ Roc :eek:



Thats overstable! :o

Is the wasp longer than the roc? I won a Z and am liking it.



Can you say 12 dollar Champ Roc :eek:



Thats overstable! :o



The closest Innova has is the Champion Glow Roc. Personally the Wasp is further then even the Glow Roc because it is a tad more stable and you can put alot of speed behind it.

I'll let you know when I break 400' with consistancy , until then it doesn't really matter to me. I'm pretty sure I've crapped out a 385' drive before, but that's like hitting a 100' putt (approach), you can't depend on it (maybe you can, but I can't). I think I'm headed out to the course again today, I'll use hole #1 (330') for drivers and midranges and hole #2 (270') for my putters to see how far I can get them to go. I had an idea yesterday about how to get some more range out of my "fast" discs (orc, viking) so I'll let you know how it goes. Once again guys, thanks for the help. If any of you are going to be at the Michiana Open the weekend of the 4th, I'll buy you a cold one. I'll need a couple myself after getting tromped on by AM2's all day long :)