803.03 D. A player must choose the stance that will result in the least movement of any part of any obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course.

Outside of some players in Texas, does anyone ever abide by this rule? That is, do players take it into consideration when making a stance? I sure don't.

Do player's call each other on this? I would be embarrased to--unless the movement was damaging the course. But when you're stuck at the edge of an oak tree, with small branches draped down to within 50 cm of the ground, and no chance of stretching out to one side or the other, I never consider playing on my stomach. Instead, I try to stand/hunch/crouch IN the branches, making sure not to break any, and not moving any out of my way, then make my shot. I've seen this happen a lot!! But in all cases, there was a way for the player to take a stance with even "less movement", by contorting themselves in some way to avoid touching the tree.

So do you warn they guy while he's "nestling" to stop it and take a different stance? Or do you call it after the disc has been thrown?

803.03D is a waste of a rule, as currently worded.

I'd love to hear other opinions! Thanks,
Steve

I've only seen it enforced (though not really enforced, just the player was asked to take another stance) when someone is about to break a limb or is stepping on a sapling. Most people in NC I've seen do try to minimize impact on obstacles, and the most liberal I take it is backing into a tree or limb such that it will bounce back to its original position.

I have, on the other hand, seen VERY liberal interpretations of the "dead and unattached" rule that questionably violate this rule.

Don't get me started. ;)

It ain't easy, but I would always tend to, and support those who, err on the side of protecting course obstacles. It only takes a moment to break a branch, it takes months or years to grow it back.

An honest respect for the course and all of it's obstacles should be the first rule in our rulebook. It should be drilled into folks sculls that destroying or injuring any part of the course is the highest crime against disc golf.

It is in my book anyway...

Well, next to lack of courtesy here on the DISCussion board... :p :D;)

I had this rule called on me in a tournament (Blue Ridge Open)last year in the Int division. Second round, I was on the lead card 3 shots out and it was my first time at the course. I backed into the spot where my drive landed, thus pushing some smaller branches that would have altered my throw out of the way, (no branches were harmed in this action) and was ready to putt. This guy starts reciting the rule while pulling his rulebook out. Needless to say, I layed up and took a 3. He proceed to win the Int division by 12 strokes over 2nd place. I understand the rules and why we have them, but it was Int people, we were playing for plastics.

Doesn't matter if it was plastic or cash. Hope you learned something.

I is better for players to enter from behind their lie in an attempt to not move anything in front of their lie. There is never any case where it is OK to back into a lie to clear a path to throw through. You are breaking 803.03.D, 803.04.A, and 803.04.B if you back into a lie and anything that was in front of your lie is moved out of your way by your actions.

In some cases you can only reach your lie from the front, but that should be your last option, and care should be taken to ensure that everything is hanging free and not held back by your body of equipment once you reach your lie.

Mike and Gary are on the money. This "well, it doesn't really matter..." attitude is a detriment to our sport. What do you do when it really does matter? And who died and made you lord emporer of when it matters and doesn't matter?

Know, Follow and Call the rules. You are our last and only defense against those who would through malice or ignorance harm our game.

(Sorry, just saw Star Wars... Darth Vader of DGRZ's. LOL!)

Shady rule...there are times when the only way to present a lie on your disc is to "force" your way back there. Under this circumstance as long as you don't damage any branches or trees how could it be a rules infraction?

If by backing in, something that was in your way is now not in your way, you have broken the rule. Legal options include laying on your belly for the throw, or declaring an unsafe lie. Although it would more properly be an unplayable lie, we don't have that option (USGA allows you to relocate with a one stroke penalty as long as you are not in a water hazard).

well then I have been led astray.

I went into the bushes through "the path with the least resistance". I could not get to the disc from the other side.

Then if you broke off or moved anything that was between your lie and the hole (not on the same line, but anywhere closer) you violated our rules of play and you should recieve a 1 stroke penalty without warning. This need not be seconded by another player.

At the very least, you must make sure that you are not bending of holding back anything. If you are unable to take a legal stance, you can declare an "unsafe lie". I hope the name changes in the next rules release to undesirable lie since that is how the rule really reads.

I didn't make the throw from there, the guy pulled the book out before I could.

At the very least, you must make sure that you are not bending of holding back anything. If you are unable to take a legal stance, you can declare an "unsafe lie". I hope the name changes in the next rules release to undesirable lie since that is how the rule really reads.



Me too. I'm pretty sure it is...

I had this rule called on me in a tournament...


I was all set to say "this is yet another good rule that you will never see called in a tournament."

People don't call rules violations, and this one is violated badly all the time. Usually it's the "back in with your big ole butt and clear a path all the way to your disc" stance. 100% illegal, but I have never seen anyone ever call it.

I don't know the answer. The rule is a very good rule. But the culture of disc golf is such that if you ever call anyone on any rule, no matter how much of a slam-dunk violation it is, you are a giant Richard Head. And you very well might get your a<font color="black">s</font>s kicked as a result.

At the very least, you must make sure that you are not bending of holding back anything.


No, at the very least you must ensure that you have not moved anything that is between your lie and the target. The "big butt back-up" routine moves lots of things between your lie and the hole.

The rule says "take a stance" with "the least movement possible". That says that you can move stuff, but move as little as you can.

You can never move anything between the lie and hole, which many people seem to conveniently forget when taking a stance in a bush.

At the very least, you must make sure that you are not bending of holding back anything.


No, at the very least you must ensure that you have not moved anything that is between your lie and the target. The "big butt back-up" routine moves lots of things between your lie and the hole.

The rule says "take a stance" with "the least movement possible". That says that you can move stuff, but move as little as you can.

You can never move anything between the lie and hole, which many people seem to conveniently forget when taking a stance in a bush.


alright, going with this big butt routine, could one argue that the branches, whatever that they're backing into are ABOVE the lie and therefore not between the lie and the basket? or would it be that if any part of the branch, even if it's one leaf on the end, is between the lie and the basket, they're in violation of said rule? Just about everyone i've played with has told me that you're allowed to back into a bush or small tree or what have you. i'm not picturing backing up to clear a path to my disc, i'm picturing backing in maybe 6 inches into a wobbly few limbs of a young sapling to get behind the disc, or sliding in from one side and moving things with your side rather than your butt.

Just about everyone i've played with has told me that you're allowed to back into a bush or small tree or what have you.


You should read our rulebook and see what you think about that maneuver with respect to the "least movement" and "you may never move anything between your lie and the hole" rules.

I've had people tell me in a very authoritative and believable tone that when marking an OB shot, you put it "one meter in, no closer to the hole." If you had never read the rule book you would believe them. But that doesn't make it right.

You mean it's not 1 meter ? :cool:

I haven't yet read the book cover to cover, but I have read most of it. I guess that's my reading material for my flight to Denver tomorrow :cool:though as quite evident throughout the board the rules are not always straight forward. I will do my best!

In all fairness, our rules are pretty darned good. And that booklet really isn't very many pages, and the pages are small. It doesn't take long at all to read.

it was more of a gung-ho than a sarcastic attitude ;) i'll come back after the weekend with my newfound knowledge of rules and report back on if I think whether what everyone's telling me is kosher or not.

I've missed many a putt because of my (at least for central NC, it seems) fanatical adherence to this rule...

I've missed many a putt because of my (at least for central NC, it seems) fanatical adherence to this rule...



In other words you have been playing REAL disc golf rather than duffer or hack disc golf.

Good for you! Seriously.

It is one meter, but it's not always "no closer to the hole". Unless you are playing from the previous lie or the drop zone, you take a stroke and mark your lie perpendicular to the point where the disc last crossed into out-of-bounds. You may mark up to one meter, even if "perpendicular" takes you closer to the hole.

I've missed many a putt because of my (at least for central NC, it seems) fanatical adherence to this rule...


I missed one because of that at Lake Casitas last weekend, and ended the tourney one stroke out of 1st!

I've missed many a putt because of my (at least for central NC, it seems) fanatical adherence to this rule...



In other words you have been playing REAL disc golf rather than duffer or hack disc golf.

Good for you! Seriously.



And if any of these rules cause you consternation, get on the rules commitee and CHANGE THEM WHILE YOU CAN!!!

I've missed many a putt because of my (at least for central NC, it seems) fanatical adherence to this rule...



In other words you have been playing REAL disc golf rather than duffer or hack disc golf.

Good for you! Seriously.



And if any of these rules cause you consternation, get on the rules commitee and CHANGE THEM WHILE YOU CAN!!!



I've tried. I'm too radical. I prefer to offer opinion and let more conservative minds filter it into usable rulings.

Like ALL sports involving a playing feild and multiple players our rules will likely continue to change and need updating. We will get it right; we mostly have already; but there will always be some work left to do... It's not like it is a video game or something, it's REAL!