sorry if this has been addressed on another thread (Jeff L), but i did not come accross it anywhere.

my question is if there is a tie for 1st at the end of the pdga tourney and the two playoff, what is the normal protocol for official places of finish? does the winner of the playoff get 1st, and the loser get 2nd, or do both get listed as 1st? i have seen it listed both ways in official pdga results. does it have something to do with how the TD turns in the scores? it seems normal in open for the tieing players to both be listed as 1st, and the winner of the playoff listed first with the greater amount of money won. is there an official pdga method to this? shouldn't it be more consistent?

Recently at the Patapsco Open (C Tier) at the end of regulation play there were 3 people tied for First Place in Open. A play-off ensued, one person dropped out of contention and then a second. The person winning the playoff won First Place and the other two ended up Tied for Second Place.

There was a bit of controversy at the tournament as to whether the first person to drop out of the playoff should actually be in Third Place, but after consulting the PDGA, the TD affirmed that he made the correct payout/decision - that the two who did not win the playoff were indeed tied in Second Place.

:cool:

Take First this weekend Juff. ;)

Listen to girlie, she should know. She's finished 1st many more times than we have.

this example (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4037#Advanced) is what made me think of the original question. but now, looking back at results, i can't find any further examples of two 1sts. this would make me think that the correct call would be for the winner of the playoff to get 1st, and others to get 2nd, 3rd and so on.

That example is not in accordance with the rules.


804.07 Ties
C. Final ties for first place must be broken by sudden death play. Sudden death play shall begin with hole number one unless a different hole is designated by the director prior to the start of the tournament. Final ties for other ranks shall be officially recorded as ties.



Only ties for first place should be broken. It is also interesting to note that the playoff is specified as starting on hole 1 and that it is sudden death play. I think both of those restrictions are changes from what I originally learned about ties.

thanks, guess i could have looked through the rules. sudden death has always been the format i've played, of course that hasn't been that long. hole 1 is more often than not the site of the playoff, although the TD sometimes chooses an alternate hole. in the example above, we played off on hole 4.

We had to review tie procedures this weekend. Ties for first are broken and the winner of the playoff gets first cash and first trophy. Ties for other positions are not broken. They are reported as tied. The prize is split. If there is a trophy at a tied spot other than first, there is a tie-breaker for the trophy only, and not for the prize or place. See Rule 804.07

So, 1,1,3,4,5... would seem to be an incorrect way of reporting the result, or the TD failed to break the tie. 1,2,2,4,5... would be correct if there was a tie for second and they played it off for the trophy.

The NT has further tie breaking rules that are different from the PDGA rules, but not different in this regard.

Listen to girlie, she should know. She's finished 1st many more times than we have



You flatter me Vince, but if you take a close look at my stats (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=20573&year=2004) you'll see many more instances of a 2nd place finish than a first. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Kind of like my finish this weekend at the Seneca Creek Soiree! :D

So, 1,1,3,4,5... would seem to be an incorrect way of reporting the result, or the TD failed to break the tie. 1,2,2,4,5... would be correct if there was a tie for second and they played it off for the trophy.



The software will warn you in some cases to report correctly when you upload to the PDGA Tour database if you are doing it wrong. It is possible to circumvent the warnings, but they do let TD's know if they are reporting ties incorrectly for 1st and second place.

The s/w automatically assigns the place of finish correctly for all other places outside of 1st and 2nd.

Of course, what I am talking about here does not help with sorting this stuff out before the awards ceremony....which is where the confusion more often happens.

You got 2nd this weekend? Good job! You Roc! I was waiting for the results to be up.

How is it decided who has the box on these sudden death playoffs?

Best score in the last round, then the round before...

Re: Patapsco 3-way tie for first, which then results in a first place winner and a 2-way tie for second, rather than 2nd and 3rd.

That's a new one on me. Glad to know that.
I understand that 2nd+3rd will play off for the 2nd place trophy,
but do you TD's usually pay out for 2nd and 3rd, or do they simply divide the 2nd/3rd equally? I personally would give 2nd place the 2nd place $$$ and 3rd place the 3rd place money. It never occurred to me to do it differently.

According to the rules, only first is played off, all other places are reported as ties.

I was there at the Patapsco playoff and the TD's initial reaction was to award second to the guy who "survived" longest in the play off. The guy who exited the play off first said that it should be a tie for second. After a little thought and a look at the rule book the TD made the, I believe, correct ruling, second was tied, the money from second and third was added together and each got half, clearly the way to go. No trophies so that was not an issue.

That I did not know, I assumed it was a disc flip with the winner deciding when they wish to throw. If what you say is correct I guess the person with the lowest last round score must go first and deferring the tee is not an option, correct?

Deferring the tee could be an option if you strectch out the speed of play rules all the way to the tee box. It would be the same as an away player allowing a closer player to play first. I think I would decline if given the offer.