Where's the "Ban all users who start or post on a 2MR thread" option? :D

Thank Goodness I have been searching all over and waiting for someone to start a poll relating to the 2 MR rule. I somehow stumbled on to this my lifes dream has been fulfilled. Thanks shoeless one.

I (and many others I suspect) would be very grateful if some brave and intelligent soul would provide a cogent summary of all the valid arguments pro and con on this issue, as I can't even begin to find the time to wade thru all the posts on this apparently very controversial subject.

cant vouch for that this is an all-inclusive list, but...

TO GET OF THE 2MR:
1) double penalty when applied to trees with thick lower branches;
2) double penalty because the player has already lost distance anyway;
3) 2M is just an arbitrary measurement, so it should be purged;
4) because some discs stick and others fall, the rule is not fair


TO KEEP THE 2MR:
1) shots that stick in trees are not good shots. they should not be rewarded and should be punished;
2) trees are an integral part of most courses and the 2MR is an integral part of the design of those courses;
3) the 2MR prevents a disc that is stuck 40' above the basket from being treated the same as a disc that is laying next to the pole;
4) discs over 2M are unplayable and a penalty should be imposed for throwing into an unplayable lie.


that prolly just about sums it up. i'm not listing the responses to these arguments - just the argument itself.

Anti-2MR:
<ul type="square"> Too darn lucky. Almost every shot that ever hits a tree comes down, so this rule only punishes extremely unlucky shots that happen to stick Hitting a tree is penalty enough. Since no one really aims at trees on purpose (unless they are next to the basket. see OB reference below for how to handle this), hitting a tree robs you of distance and direction on your shot. This is punishment enough so no penalty is required if you stick. Double penalty: every tree in my part of the world is a Cedar, and the lie below the stuck disc when they do stick is already in "jail" with a horrible lie and at least one-stroke to get out. This is already a penalty for the bad throw. Adding another stroke and leaving the thrower in jail with the lie is a double penalty. "Anything the 2MR can do, OB can do better." This gives course designers and TDs far more freedom to establish certain trees as OB without all trees being so. Trees next to baskets should be labelled as OB so that throwers don't use the trees as backstops. [/list]


Pro-2MR
<ul type="square"> A disc stuck 20 feet high in a tree is not retrievable. Throwing your disc where it cannot be retrieved stops you from being able to play it where lies in any definition of the concept and is absolutely a penalty worthy situation. This is the main point of contention between the two camps, and all other points for and against are merely supporting points. If you believe that a disc 20 feet up in a tree where you can't get it deserves a penalty then you are pro-2MR rule. If you don't believe that not being able to retrieve your disc is penalty worthy then you are anto-2MR. Everything else is pretty irrelevant to this on both sides. Skillful shots that are properly executed don't hit trees and therefore don't stick. Poor shots that hit trees frequently don't stick, and this is good luck. Luck is not an issue because good shots don't hit trees. OB is a very poor substitute for the 2MR because this causes a lot of extra work for already overworked TDs when they have to mark OB trees and make sure the info about what trees are OB to all the players. You can duplicate the 2MR with OB only if you change the OB rule to incorporate a "vertivcal OB" section. This already exists as the 2 MR. Using OB and modifiying the OB rule would make TDs do a lot more work for the same effect of the current rules. The double penalty argument of the anti-2MR folks make a lot of sense. Adding relief similar to the relief offered by the Unsafe Lie Rule when a 2 meter penalty is incurred makes a lot of sense. Adding relief to the 2MR is the rule change that should be made. [/list]

Pat and Rhett,

He said, "brave and intelligent"...

:o :D ;)

yes, nick, we know why you didnt bother to attempt a real response.

you are back on ignore, where you belong.

yes, nick, we know why you didnt bother to attempt a real response.

you are back on ignore, where you belong.



Oh goodie!

The 2MR needs its own Subject Space on the DISCussion front page. These threads get started everywhere.