In the interest of helping my fellow disc golfing brethren and sisteren, I'm here to offer some tips, insight, and whatever else comes up about the wonderful game of Poker.

I'm sure all of you at one time or another over the past year or 2 have seen at least a little bit of either the World Series of Poker on ESPN, or World Poker Tour on the Travel Channel. Maybe even some Celbrity Poker (which, interestingly enough, is comprised of neither real Celebrities, nor real Poker). Before you get too gung ho and start thinking, "Hey, that person who just guest starred on a rerun of Felicity went all in with J7 offsuit and won, maybe I should too!", you should check this discussion for some do's, don'ts, and maybes.

Or read a book, it's up to you.

Dan's first tip:

While there are Poker rooms and casinos popping up all over the place, the majority of players are online. It's safe (usually), easy, and convenient. You don't even need a broadband internet connection to play several tables at a time if you want. You just need a PC running some version of Windows (unfortunately, none of the major sites offer Linux-based poker clients as of yet), and a method of getting money to an account at the site of your choice.

Most of the major sites (and by major sites I mean Party Poker, Poker Stars, Ultimate Bet, Planet Poker, and the sites the comprise the Prima Poker Network) accept credit cards, but what I recommend is opening up an account at Neteller (www.neteller.com). Neteller is a paypal-like service that functions as an ordinary bank account. You deposit funds via an ACH transfer from your regular bank, and from there you can transfer them to the poker site of your choice. The advantage of Neteller is when you want to cash out of the Poker site it will be faster and easier than having that site send you a check. I regularly move funds back and forth from site to site this way, and the fees are minimal (and often waived by the Poker site).

Many sites will offer deposit bonuses to new players (generally a percentage, like 25% or more of what you deposit). You deposit $100 to Party Poker, and they'll give you an extra $25. Sounds good, right? Well....not always. You can't 'free up' the bonus money until you play a certain number of hands, and oftentimes it's more than it's worth (especially if you are just starting out and are prone to make mistakes). You might lose your whole wad just trying to work off the bonus. Read the fine print before jumping all over that 'great' deal.

Post any questions you might have, and stay tuned for next issue's question - What site should I put my money into, and why?

Hey Dan, how come people don't like my poker playing style?

I play reckless and with no regard for the value of money.

Oh yeah, I'm bluffing.

Or am I?

Hey Dan, how come people don't like my poker playing style?

I play reckless and with no regard for the value of money.



Chris, most players (especially newbies) absolutely HATE the 'maniac' style of play. If you choose your spots right, you can make out big playing like that, because people will call you with crap just assuming that you must be bluffing. Letting them catch you bluffing every once in a while doesn't hurt the image, either. Just be careful, as better players will pick up on you pretty quickly and trap you to death.

Obviously, if you have too much regard for money while you play it will hurt your game, so you are ok in that respect. You can't be worried about not making the mortgage when deciding whether to call a bet or not. Don't play above a reasonable limit and you'll be fine. The basic advice is to have 300 times the BB (big bet, i.e. if you're playing $1/$2 Limit Holdem, a BB is $2) in your starting bankroll.

Top pros base their game on trying to average 1-2 BBs per hour. They don't worry about today's bad run of cards, or yesterday's good one. They look long term, and so should you.

I and several DG buddies of mine have been trying to find a site to play private games on, for real money.

We would like to play no-limit single-table tournament style. Essentially, a $5 sit-and-go, but just with people you know.

Software-wise, one would think this would be *simple*. However, our search has been nearly fruitless.

Here's what we've found:
- UltimateBet - No private tables. Yet?
- PartyPoker - Private tables are LIMIT only, and no tournaments.
- PlanetPoker - Offering private tables/tournaments on a trial basis to a small group of established social clubs. Will monitor for success and allegedly keep me posted.
- ParadisePoker - Private tournaments only for *minimum* of 20 players.
- YahooPoker - Terrible software, no tournaments, no apparent control of game parameters (limit/blinds/etc.).
- Pokertropolis - Actually seems to have what we need. However, three small problems that add up to a medium hassle: 1. The gameplay software is terrible. 2. They don't accept CitadelCommerce (which is what I use, but I suppose I could switch to NetTeller). 3. There is *nobody* at this site. There were maybe 30 real-money tables of Hold-Em when I was there. Total. There was one (1) sit-and-go waiting to start, with nobody sitting down. That tends to make one a little nervous.

The remaining question with Pokertropolis is that you have to specify a time for your private tournament. It is unknown whether it starts dealing at that time, or if there is some type of "start" button that you can hit once you're all there. The problem being, if it starts exactly at the given time, it's hard to play multiple games consecutively, since we assume the setup isn't instantaneous (though I don't know why it shouldn't be, just guessing).

It's pretty amazing to me that the major sites don't have private tables and tournaments as a standard, common, and highly customizable feature. Standard rakes and fees would apply, and I'm sure there are thousands that would use it.

If anyone (Dan!) has additional info, please share.

Rodney, I have played in a few private tourneys at Planet, but it was for one of the forums I belong to that they sponsor. Their support is excellent (best of all the sites, IMO), so it might be worth it to give them another call about it. Their software is pretty dated, however they are in beta on an upgrade that is very 'Party-like'.

PokerStars will run private tourneys as well, and that might be your best bet. Their software is excellent (my personal favorite), and you can choose whatever game you like, with parameters like payout and blind schedules that you can customize. I think you need to have a certain number of frequent player points, however, for them to let you do that, but it doesn't hurt to give them a call. If one of your playing buddies is a regular there, he might already qualify. If not, maybe they will let you know how many you need, in which case I might have enough to set it up for you.

The recklessness is a great act. I find it works better than the cautious approach that I have tried in the past. If you only stay in when you have a good hand, people are leary of you when you stay in. I would rather keep my opponents guessing. I know of three weekly tournaments in my area. I like to show up at random. It keeps them guessing. No limit is the way to go.

I'm all in.

Chris, another reason this works so often is that many times you'll be playing with people that are playing at a limit higher than they can afford. Because they are so cautious, they will lay down hands better than yours when you put the pressure on them. I see this all the time in NL and PL games (especially Pot Limit Omaha).

A tip off that someone is playing above their limit (and thus can easily be pushed off a hand) is when they buy in for the minimum at the table. If you can buy in for anywhere from $10 to $50, always buy in for the full amount. If you're gonna hit that monster hand and double up, you want to do it for the most $$ possible. Guys that buy in for $10 are almost always going to be weak/tight. If you can't afford to risk $50, then find a lower limit table.

Have you ever played TruePoker...?

I have actually dabbled a few times with real money but tend to play too tight. I seem to do better playing sit and goes, but you have to place at a very high rate to keep that going. While I have played 1000's of limit and NL $50 table hands, I can never seem to get over the hump.

When there is a possible better hand out there (say you have pocket KK and the 5 on the table are AAA35 I ALWAYS seem to hit the hand where someone is sitting on the Ace (and I have bet pre-flop in these situations).

What is your advice for someone who can tread water in these rooms (when I say 1000's of hands on two $50 deposits I mean it), but can't seem to get over the hump?

I try to be tight aggressive, but usually run up against good hands when I try to �buy� or simi-bluff. I am a little scared to put a TRUE bankroll in (are suggesting $600 as 300 x�s the BB in $1/$2 limit?)

I also would not mind trying a different site even though I have �status� at true poker through their rewards program. The graphics are great, but the card dealing program seems very set up for house advantage (more hands than there should be with 4 or 5 people having huge hands etc.).

Have you ever played TruePoker...?

I have actually dabbled a few times with real money but tend to play too tight. I seem to do better playing sit and goes, but you have to place at a very high rate to keep that going. While I have played 1000's of limit and NL $50 table hands, I can never seem to get over the hump.

When there is a possible better hand out there (say you have pocket KK and the 5 on the table are AAA35 I ALWAYS seem to hit the hand where someone is sitting on the Ace (and I have bet pre-flop in these situations).

What is your advice for someone who can tread water in these rooms (when I say 1000's of hands on two $50 deposits I mean it), but can't seem to get over the hump?

I try to be tight aggressive, but usually run up against good hands when I try to �buy� or simi-bluff. I am a little scared to put a TRUE bankroll in (are suggesting $600 as 300 x�s the BB in $1/$2 limit?)

I also would not mind trying a different site even though I have �status� at true poker through their rewards program. The graphics are great, but the card dealing program seems very set up for house advantage (more hands than there should be with 4 or 5 people having huge hands etc.).



John, I didn't care for TruePoker's interface that much. It wasn't horrible, but I didn't see enough that I liked to make it worth my while to switch away from PokerStars and Planet (my 2 main sites right now, with a little Party mixed in when I want to play like a monkey).

You are correct about the $600 needed to play $1/$2 (limit). I know a lot of people don't have that much, and if you are normally a tight player you can get away with less, but that is the standard number everyone throws out there. If you are playing mostly NL, then most people say to have 20 buyins ($1000 if you play the $50 tables).

If you are trying to play the $50 tables with just $100 or $150 in your bankroll you may be falling into the 'weak/tight' mode too often. For instance, if you are regularly losing with KK then it might be because you aren't raising enough preflop to shrink the field. I will almost always raise 4x or 5x the BB, and often push in with KK, unless I am in early position. Yes, you will get cracked once in a while by someone with an Ace that gets their lucky flop, but keep the faith by knowing you have a huge advantage to any hand except AA (of course, you are almost always dead meat against AA, but thems the breaks sometimes). This is where having a bigger bankroll helps, as it can absorb the swings that are a normal occurence in all games.

Another thing I will try is playing more positionally, i.e. playing only monsters (AA or KK) from early position, and only playing top 10 hands from late position, almost always with a raise. You will fold 90% or more of your hands, but you'll get paid off on the other 10%.

Does Truepoker offer $10 or $25 tables? I know Planet, Party and Stars do. If so, it might be worth it to try those out. Even though the blinds on a $10 table are .05/.10, the pots will escalate pretty quickly. Solid, tight/aggressive play at these tables will really pay off.

I have had a terrible run lately at Sit N Go's, so any advice I'd give on those would be along the lines of "Don't play Sit N Go's". :D

In the interest of helping my fellow disc golfing brethren and sisteren, I'm here to offer some tips, insight, and whatever else comes up about the wonderful game of Poker.



While so far you've provided a few basic but helpful tips on getting started, I'm expecting that eventually you'll get into strategy issues and tips on how to win.

Before you do, and without trying to come off as overtly challenging, what qualifications do you have? How long have you been playing? What books have YOU read? What tournaments have you placed highly in or won? What would you estimate your lifetime earnings from Poker are? Basically, how do we know you are any good and can trust your advice? Otherwise, this thread might be like taking disc golf advice from Morgan.

In the interest of helping my fellow disc golfing brethren and sisteren, I'm here to offer some tips, insight, and whatever else comes up about the wonderful game of Poker.



BWAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! - - Disc golf advice from MORGAN ***snicker***

So if you HAD to pick a site to recommend to a tight aggressive player who is treading water, you would recommend...?

While so far you've provided a few basic but helpful tips on getting started, I'm expecting that eventually you'll get into strategy issues and tips on how to win.

Before you do, and without trying to come off as overtly challenging, what qualifications do you have? How long have you been playing? What books have YOU read? What tournaments have you placed highly in or won? What would you estimate your lifetime earnings from Poker are? Basically, how do we know you are any good and can trust your advice? Otherwise, this thread might be like taking disc golf advice from Morgan.

So if you HAD to pick a site to recommend to a tight aggressive player who is treading water, you would recommend...?




I was going to delve into the pros and cons of the major sites eventually. Here's a brief synopsis, however.

Ultimate Bet - for the most part, UB has the best overall players (on average). They have a nice interface as well, and cashouts are pretty quick. Customer support is ok.

PokerStars - close to UB in player level, but with more players on average there is a better chance at finding a table make up that you want. Great interface, cashouts are quick, support is ok.

Planet Poker - the smallest and least populated, but a pretty high percentage of weak players. A lot of calling stations play Planet, for some reason. Very dated, unimpressive interface, but as I said earlier, a beta is in testing for a replacement. My most profitable site, mostly thanks to the Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo tables. Support is excellent, and cashouts are pretty quick.

Party Poker - the biggest site of the bunch, with such a high percentage of bad players it's almost comical. Be prepared to get your good hands busted more than normal, but at the same time, you will win a lot more when they don't get cracked. Support is horrible, but cashouts move pretty quickly. Interface is ok. Multi table tourneys are the biggest crapshoot of the bunch, mainly because the blind structure gets too high, too soon.

John, if you are a patient, tight/aggressive player then Party might be the site for you. Start with the $25 NL tables if that's your game, there are usually dozens running at a time. Don't be surprised if you get AA, push your entire stack in, and get 3 or 4 callers, the players are that loose. The times you get sucked out by the guy who called you with 67 suited will occur more frequently, but you are going to triple up more often than not to make up for it. I know a few guys who play nothing but AA, KK, QQ, and AK on Party's $25 NL tables and regularly turn a profit.

While so far you've provided a few basic but helpful tips on getting started, I'm expecting that eventually you'll get into strategy issues and tips on how to win.



That's the problem with expectations, Jeff, if you don't have any, you won't be disappointed.



Before you do, and without trying to come off as overtly challenging, what qualifications do you have? How long have you been playing? What books have YOU read? What tournaments have you placed highly in or won? What would you estimate your lifetime earnings from Poker are? Basically, how do we know you are any good and can trust your advice?



When did I say I was any good?



Otherwise, this thread might be like taking disc golf advice from Morgan.



Well, since he throws farther than I do, that might not be a bad idea. Now that I think of it, he throws farther than you do as well, so maybe you should consider asking for a lesson too. :D

Calm down, dude. Everything's going to be ok. Take a deep breath. Feel free to skip the thread if you'd like, I won't be offended.

When did I say I was any good?




Feel free to skip the thread if you'd like, I won't be offended.



Well, I'd like to get better at Poker. But if you're basically saying that you're not any good, then this thread is pointless and I guess I will ignore it.

I mean, WTF? I've played tennis twice in my life, when I was 17 years old. But I wouldn't start a tennis thread on an internet discussion board offering tips and insight!

Well, I'd like to get better at Poker. But if you're basically saying that you're not any good, then this thread is pointless and I guess I will ignore it.



The majority of the threads on any discussion board are pointless, but that's a subject for another day. If it will make you feel better, here's a brief bio....

I started playing poker when I was a kid, probably 8 or so. Our family played a little bit of everything, 7 card stud, draw, no peek, you name it. Mostly penny/2 penny, with some nickel/dime thrown in when it was Dad's payday. At that time, no one knew of the current crop of games like Holdem and Omaha.

I've been to Atlantic City and played at the Taj a few times. 7 card stud mostly, and did pretty well. Considering how much more I know now, I'm surprised at how bad everyone else must have been. :D

I have been playing online for about 6 months maybe and have turned $50 into almost a grand, and that was playing mostly micro limits for the first few months. I've won 2 Holdem tournaments, one Omaha Hi/Lo, and took 5th in a Stud Hi/Lo the other day, even tho it was only the 3rd or 4th time I'd ever played the game. While each game has it's own quirks, there are a lot of basic fundamentals that apply throughout (kinda like DG with regard to driving, approaching, and putting).

...to be continued, gotta get dinner

I am successful at Poker, but by no means an 'expert'. If I was an 'expert' at Poker, I'd be doing that for a living. If you'd like a more expert opinion on the game, here's a couple of starting points:

Winning Low Limit Holdem - by Lee Jones. This is the bible for the limit player. Not a terribly long book, but if you take his advice, you will win more, no questions about it.

How to Win at Omaha Hi Low Poker - by Mike Cappelletti. The bible for Omaha Hi Low (often called Omaha 8, or O8) players. O8 is my most profitable game, mainly because a huge majority of the people playing it just don't know what they are doing. If you like a lot of action and don't have the patience to fold 85-90% of your holdem hands, then learn O8, you'll love it.

Play Poker Like the Pros - by Phil Hellmuth. While not totally useless, there is a lot to be desired with this one. I like Phil, and his skills as a NL tournament player are without question. His writing style is a bit flaky (umm...kinda like him) and his ring game advice is a bit odd, to say the least. His tournament advice, however, is very good. Borrow it from a buddy, or pick it up used.

If it will make you feel better, here's a brief bio....

I have been playing online for about 6 months maybe and have turned $50 into almost a grand, and that was playing mostly micro limits for the first few months. I've won 2 Holdem tournaments, one Omaha Hi/Lo, and took 5th in a Stud Hi/Lo the other day, even tho it was only the 3rd or 4th time I'd ever played the game. While each game has it's own quirks, there are a lot of basic fundamentals that apply throughout (kinda like DG with regard to driving, approaching, and putting).

I am successful at Poker, but by no means an 'expert'. If I was an 'expert' at Poker, I'd be doing that for a living. If you'd like a more expert opinion on the game, here's a couple of starting points:

Winning Low Limit Holdem - by Lee Jones. This is the bible for the limit player. Not a terribly long book, but if you take his advice, you will win more, no questions about it.

How to Win at Omaha Hi Low Poker - by Mike Cappelletti. The bible for Omaha Hi Low (often called Omaha 8, or O8) players. O8 is my most profitable game, mainly because a huge majority of the people playing it just don't know what they are doing. If you like a lot of action and don't have the patience to fold 85-90% of your holdem hands, then learn O8, you'll love it.

Play Poker Like the Pros - by Phil Hellmuth. While not totally useless, there is a lot to be desired with this one. I like Phil, and his skills as a NL tournament player are without question. His writing style is a bit flaky (umm...kinda like him) and his ring game advice is a bit odd, to say the least. His tournament advice, however, is very good. Borrow it from a buddy, or pick it up used.



Now see this is what I'm talking about - this shows me you're not just some hack job. I look forward to future posts on this thread and thank you for taking the time to share your insights.

Thanks, Jeff. Are you playing on PokerStars? Let me know when you're usually on and we can hook up if you want.

Today's Tip: How to gain valuable experience without losing your shirt.

I know a lot of people that aren't ready to risk their hard earned cash, but want to get better. You can read the books, but just like throwing a disc, you need to get out there and play a few hands before you will improve. By a few hands, I mean several thousand.

Every site out there has a section of play money tables. They start you out with a couple thousand or so in play money and let you have at it. It's not a bad idea to get your feet wet, but there is a big asterisk next to any success you might have with play money. The problem is, your opponents don't care if they lose. It's not real money, so if they bust out, no biggie, they just reload. Because of this, the tables become what is commonly referred to as a poo flinging contest. Everyone sees every flop and your raises mean nothing.

What I'd recommend is this; use the play money tables to see if you like the site - the interface, connection reliability, etc. Once you decide that you like the site, deposit the minimum amount. On most sites it's $50, some (like Planet Poker) it's only $30. Use that $50 to enter the cheapest tournaments they have. PokerStars has $1, $2 and $3 NL Holdem, Omaha Hi/Lo and Stud Hi/Lo tourneys every day, usually 3 or 4 times a day in fact. For a single $1 entry into a NL Holdem Tourney you might get to play a couple of hundred hands or so of real poker. Ok, maybe less if you bust out early, but it's much better than using play money. Early on in these cheap tourneys it gets a little crazy, as people will play pretty loose, but if you survive the first hour, the monkeys will be gone (or have huge chip stacks, if they are getting lucky). Either way, the excitement is there, and usually you just need to last until the 3rd hour to make the cash. You won't win much unless you make the top 20, but the experience you'll be able to gain will be worth it even if you blow you're whole $50 before winning anything.

If you limit yourself to $1 entry tourneys, and play conservatively (as anyone starting out should be playing), you will probably average at least 100 hands per tourney. That's 5000 hands of quality poker you'll have under your belt, and that sure beats playing for imaginary pennies!

I love to poker. One of my favorite things is to poker. My fiancee loves it when I poker. She like when I pucker before I poker.

Ahh....but does she like it when you poker in the pucker?

I take her to church and poker in the pews

^^^^^ Avatar Thief!!! ^^^^^

Morgan, that is a very frightening picture. Shouldn't you be holding up a sign with the letters "PD" and a bunch of numbers on it.

Oh, I'm sorry Dan, please teach me more about poker so that if we do go to Vegas I can spend my time at the slots.

Dan's Tip of The Day

Poker, a wife that wants to talk about, umm, whatever the hell she wanted to talk about, and Sapporo don't mix.

Last night I blew almost my entire $25 buyin on one hand of Omaha H/L due to the above distractions. Now, it's entirely possible that I could have made the same foolish call without them, but I doubt it. I was on PokerStars at a $25 PL Omaha H/L table and 2 hands in I get A24K. An excellent starting hand for Omaha, to say the least. With a flop of 67J I am in good shape for at least half the pot. A guy bet the pot and someone else called before it got to me. I called (that call was ok), but when a 2 came on the turn it changed the complexion of my hand completely. Now I have no high possibility, and my nut low draw becomes a 2nd nut low draw. This might be worth calling a minimum bet, but nothing more than that. Certainly not worth calling the pot sized bet that the first player through out there. 9 times out of 10 I fold that hand and wait for a better spot. 9 times out of 10, I am not trying to have a conversation with my wife about whatever the hell she was talking about while working on a nice plum sake/Sapporo induced buzz. Needless to say, I made the call, then had to call the small river bet when a 9 hit the board. First player showed A38T and scooped the whole pot.

Now, it wasn't the end of the world there, and the fact that I was up almost $150 in the last 3 days took some of the sting off it. Mickey said in the first Rocky movie that women weaken legs. I'm here to tell you that women plus alcohol weaken your bankroll. If you can't concentrate on your game, log off and save your money!

Oh, I'm sorry Dan, please teach me more about poker so that if we do go to Vegas I can spend my time at the slots.



Jim, they are called 'female companions'. Please show some respect.

Oh, I'm sorry Dan, please teach me more about poker so that if we do go to Vegas I can spend my time at the slots.



Jim, they are called 'female companions'. Please show some respect.



Just remember, that is legal in the state of Nevada but not within the city limits of Las Vegas. ;)

Dan, what are your thoughts on a 3/6 hold em table at the casino, can you make some pretty decent money if you stick with it or should you be playing the 6/12?

It's gonna vary from casino to casino, but lately the monkey factor is the same at both levels. No longer is the higher limit populated with better players. If you can play smart poker, you'll pull down more at the $6/12 table. You need a bigger roll to cover the variance factor, but the level of play is generally pretty bad at both. Just try not to get too cute, because most tricky play is lost on the average "Hey I watched Vince Van Patten say that AJ offsuit is a monster, I guess I'll reraise" kind of player. Bet your hands for value and rarely check raise. Slow play nothing but the absolute nuts. Play positionally as much as possible. Pay attention to the other players on every hand, especially the ones you've folded. You will be shocked at how many obvious tells you'll catch.

Morgan i have to agree that pic. is kinda scary looks like 1 of the "Heavens Gate" year book photo's.

;) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Dan, how often do you muck after winning a big pot? Do you think showing on big wins pays off if you have a small roll (in tourneys) or just keep everyone wondering? This is something that I have not quite figured out yet. Also, I have won over $400 in the last month on PStars, but over the last week I have seen more crap that I thought was possible. Losing on AA and AK to usual crap is sometimes fishy, but I realize they don't have a reason to risk that on $12 or $35 tourneys....cool thread by the way!

Dan, I was playing a no limit hold'em sit-n-go last night.

I got KK in fairly early position with 9 people at the table, one caller in front of me so far.

I raised about 4x the BB, and everybody folded.

I almost always play LIMIT (because I do *way* better at it than no-limit). I play super-tight until there are 4 or 5 people left, and I never mind if I only pick up the blinds and a couple callers when I have a good hand.

But as I'm playing NO LIMIT last night, I realize I really have no idea how to play that hand at a NO LIMIT table. Especially with my underlying thought that I'm just there to have fun and maybe cash, and it's not much fun for me to get out-drawn for all my chips.

I found myself asking WWDD?

Schick, I muck 99% of the time. Why give away any more information than you have to? Perceptive players will pick up on any consistencies you might have which could be used against you in later rounds. That's another reason I like the 4x or 5x BB raise, as opposed to big raises with monsters and smaller ones with good drawing hands like KQ or whatever.

I generally will only show if I make a raise in late position that seems like it might be a blind steal attempt. If the blinds fold I will show my big hands and sometimes even throw a comment out like 'just wanted you to know I wasn't stealing'. Sometimes that will let me get away with a steal in later rounds, when I need the extra chips.

Rodney, IMO you played your KK perfectly. While it's the 2nd best starting hand you can have, it's vulnerable to anyone that wants to play their A6o on the cheap. I'd prefer to take down the blinds, and if someone wants to call then I'll roll the dice if I have to, knowing I most likely have the advantage. It's just not as big an advantage as some would think.

Think of it this way, what if you just minimum raised and an ace hit the flop? When someone bets into you what would you do? I'd rather take the small pot and move on. Of course, if someone calls and the flop comes without an ace, then you have better options. If it's not a coordinated flop you can consider slowplaying them, or just pushing in your chips and trust that you have a much bigger advantage. Sure, occasionally someone will hit 2 pair, but you still will have outs with 2 cards to come.

BTW, I have only a little over 1000 player points on Stars, not enough to set up that tourney. I will see if there are other options, tho.

Yeah, as tight as I am, if I let people see the flop with me having KK, *any* subsequent action pretty much scares me off (that's a big reason I play limit -- I'm chicken), obviously especially if there is an A on the flop.

Thanks for keeping an eye open for options for private tournaments. Let me know if you hear of any.

Schick, I muck 99% of the time. Why give away any more information than you have to? Perceptive players will pick up on any consistencies you might have which could be used against you in later rounds. That's another reason I like the 4x or 5x BB raise, as opposed to big raises with monsters and smaller ones with good drawing hands like KQ or whatever.

I generally will only show if I make a raise in late position that seems like it might be a blind steal attempt. If the blinds fold I will show my big hands and sometimes even throw a comment out like 'just wanted you to know I wasn't stealing'. Sometimes that will let me get away with a steal in later rounds, when I need the extra chips.



On Poker Stars you can set it to "Auto Muck" which I have done. I can't imagine any reason you would ever want to show people your cards and give them an advantage. I'm amazed the guys on WSOP don't always muck. I would be adverse to showing a good hand after stealing, because you might fool some people later on, but you might also lead people to fold right away and never call your good hands.

How do like your Sake...warmed or iced? I've never tried the Plum/Pear...any recommendations?

What Dan said is usually what I do. If it's late in the game and the blinds are big, I sometimes think its beneficail to show them I am not stealing them on junk. Later on it may pay off like he said....thanks dan..

Circle2,
I always thought warm sake tasted kinda like the beer that is left over in the cups out on your porch the day after an all night party. The plum stuff was iced and really good, but I don't remember the brand.

On Poker Stars you can set it to "Auto Muck" which I have done. I can't imagine any reason you would ever want to show people your cards and give them an advantage. I'm amazed the guys on WSOP don't always muck. I would be adverse to showing a good hand after stealing, because you might fool some people later on, but you might also lead people to fold right away and never call your good hands.




As I said Jeff, I only will do it on occasion to present a good 'table image'. You want players to respect your raises more often than not, since ideally you would take every pot down without a showdown. When you have the absolute nuts it's different, but it is very rare that you have that perfect hand. You also have to consider that the better hand doesn't always win.

For example, you have AKo and your opponent has QJo - seems like a lock for you, right? Not quite, you will win only 65% of the time. In a tournament situation, you usually don't want to take that many chances, and you'd rather pull down the pot when you can.

In ring games it's different, because there you'd be happy to get your money in anytime you have favorable pot odds. Of course, if you bust out in a ring game you can just reload, but in a tourney it's sayonara.

As far as the WSOP guys go, they tend to play the situation, position, and player a lot more than they play the cards, so showing hands is more of a mind game than anything else.

<font color="red"> ALL IN!! </font>

I guess I was a little prophetic in my last post.

Just this evening, 48 hands in to a $3 NL Holdem tourney on Pokerstars, I have about 1450 chips (started with 1500) and am in the small blind. I have AK offsuit. There are 4 limpers to me (blinds were 50/100) and I raise to 800, hoping to just take it down there, but feeling I'm probably ok if someone calls since any big pairs would have raised already.

One guy pushes all in, and he has me covered, so I'm all in if I call. Since there is over 2k in chips in the pot and it's 600 for me to call it's a no brainer, I have to. I do and he shows AT offsuit. I have him dominated in a big way. Ummm, until a 10 spikes on the flop and I don't get a king to make up for it. He had 3 outs in the whole deck and hit one. The fact that I made the right play doesn't mean anything when I'm out of chips.

BTW, the poker odds calculator at www.twodimes.net (http://www.twodimes.net) says I was a 71% to his 24% favorite.

That's just poker! :D

Thanks, Jeff. Are you playing on PokerStars? Let me know when you're usually on and we can hook up if you want.




Dan, I usually play most weeknights from 10-12 after the wife has gone to sleep. You can find me in Hold 'Em Play Money 5/10 NL rooms. Even though I have $35K, I choose the 5/10 rooms over the 100/200 rooms because you can only bring a maximum of $2,000 to the table and there are usually a lot of rookies who go all in with their $1,000 even though they have crap because they know they can get another $1,000 refilled up to three times per hour.

My handle is 'DiscGolfNut' :D

"The wife" he says. That's a good one. You aren't even married. Must be an internet wife

Was I talking to you, freak boy?

What an assjack

Can't we all just get along?

Ah, where's the fun in that. Morgan, I'm real close to complaining about that avatar. My wife (I have a real one ;)) thought I was hanging out at a serial killer discussion page when she saw it.

I'm no big poker player, but I occasionally play and watch it on tv. Dan's comment (and it's reporting on TV) on the % advantage (or whatever it's called) before the flop brought up a question. Is the % advantage before the flop all that meaningful? I mean, unless you have a really strong hand, the % advantage seems like a weak stat with all the uncertainty before the flop. I'm probably demonstrating my ignorance of probabilities, but that particular stat seems like weak information to support a big investment.

I'm no big poker player, but I occasionally play and watch it on tv. Dan's comment (and it's reporting on TV) on the % advantage (or whatever it's called) before the flop brought up a question. Is the % advantage before the flop all that meaningful? I mean, unless you have a really strong hand, the % advantage seems like a weak stat with all the uncertainty before the flop. I'm probably demonstrating my ignorance of probabilities, but that particular stat seems like weak information to support a big investment.



James, the thing that separates poker from pure games of chance like roulette or the lottery are numbers like those. Granted, sometimes they don't work out exactly as planned, but in the long run the person that makes those bets will be ahead. It's all based on probability theory.

Here's another example. You have a pair of 3s and I have an Ace and a King. Statistically, you are a slight favorite to win heads up against me (54% to 46%). If you we each bet an equal amount on those hands, over time you will take all of my money. I might win the first time, or even the 2nd or 3rd, but eventually the numbers will work out in your favor. The top poker pros know these numbers and will use that info, combined with the odds they are getting from the pot to determine if they fold or call. The ability to put their opponent on a hand or type of hand is the other major thing that separates the men from the boys.

Here's an example from last night, when I was playing on a free money table with JeffL at Pokerstars. I had a pair of jacks in the hole. 3 or 4 players had limped to me, so I made a pretty big raise. While I most likely had the best hand preflop, the odds of my winning go way down if 4 others see the flop with me. The raise made most everyone fold, except for one player that reraised me. At this point there was probably 1500 or so in the pot, and I had 1000 chips left. I pushed all my chips in, since I had pot odds to justify it, (only aa, kk, and qq would be better). I was betting 1000 to win 2500 (the existing 1500, plus his 1000 if he calls). I am getting 2.5:1 on my bet, and unless he has a bigger pair, I am a big favorite anyway. The other reason I pushed in was I didn't want anyone else to call. Those kinds of hands I want to be heads up. If he has overcards (let's say Ace-Queen) and he gets an ace or queen on the flop, then I can live with that, since I know that over time that will be a profitable bet for me.

As it was the board was all junk and I took down the pot, almost tripling up my stack.

Here's an example from last night, when I was playing on a free money table with JeffL at Pokerstars.



Don't forget the other lesson to be learned. I got dealt 84 suited, and called on some small bet before the flop. After the river card and some small betting, there weren't many people still in and I had made my flush with a queen high, and I think a ten of that suit out. There were only three suited cards on the table, which meant that someone else would also need to have two suited cards in their pocket to also have flush. The odds of this happening, along with the odds that one of those cards was higher than an 8 (9,J,K or A) was pretty low, imo. I bet about one third of my stack and lost it to someone else with Jack and a low card, suited. :(

Watch out on those low flushs is the lesson to be learned. Bet conservatively unless you are nutted with the ace.

Point taken. The interplay between the calculated winning %s, the player's ability to influence those %s (in my mind, at least) through betting strategy and the guidance given by payoff rewards makes it all sound complex and interesting. I can see from your description that you are playing a different game than I am when I sit at a table with my buddies.

While they probably don't have the exact statistics memorized, most professional poker players have an intuitive sense for these playing percentages and use them accordingly.

However, only WSOP finalist Josh Arieh publicly whines like a ***** when people bet out of line with commonly accepted practice! :D

Jeff, you should never see a flop with something as weak as 8-4 suited, unless you are in the BB and it's free, or you're in the SB and there are 6 or 7 limpers. That is a horribly weak hand since, as you realized, it makes a weak flush when it hits (and that is only around 5% of the time) and it won't give you much of anything else. Even if you get a flop of 567, your straight is not to the nuts (89 beats you).

89 suited is a much better hand, since it has multiple straight possiblities as well as flush potential. Not that it's a really GOOD hand, but it's much better than 84 or any other low 3-gapper.

And Josh Arieh is a total dillhole, everyone I know wanted to strangle him after seeing how he acted during the WSOP. Not that it matters, you won't be seeing much of him on the WPT or any other major tourney program (Fox Sports Net has some good stuff as well).

Jim, my avatar is my attempt to shock and awe the disc golf community. It's me about 20 yrs ago

Here's a question: What is a Bad Beat Jackpot?

On an unrelated note, I saw my first Royal Flush last night. I was not in the hand. The guy had K3 of clubs. TJQc on the flop. Ac on the turn. He checked the turn and one guy bet behind him, which of course he called. Then he actually bet on the river, and was called. I probably wouldn't have bet the river, just so I would be assured of getting to show my Royal.

A bad beat jackpot is a fund that online sites (and b&m casinos) create that will pay off the loser of a hand in a case where the loser had 4 of a kind or better. The qualifying hand differs from site to site, but is usually something like 4 7s or better. The kicker is that it also pays anyone else that was either in the hand, or at the table, but most of the money goes to the loser. They usually will put in a caveat that you have to use both of your hole cards to qualify (which means if the board on a holdem table has 4 aces there won't be a jackpot). Generally what happens is 2 players each have a pocket pair, and the other 2 of each card come up on the board.

Party poker had a humonguous jackpot pay off not too long ago, I think it was over $100k.

The value of suited connectors

Here's a quiz for you. Let's say you're at a holdem table and can see everyone's cards (maybe with those xray glasses that you get from the Bazooka gum folks). This is what you see:

Player 1 - AA
Player 2 - AA
Player 3 - KK
Player 4 - KK
Player 5 - QQ

You check your cards and you have the 6 and 5 of spades.

Do you call a bet? Do you call an all-in bet?

Believe it or not, you are the odds on favorite to win this hand, so yes, you call.

Suited connectors are a great hand in holdem with a couple of exceptions. If you are going to play them you want to be in late position, and have several limpers already in the pot (at least 4). You want to get paid off when you hit your straight or flush, and heads up they are not very strong.

Here's the numbers from the twodimes.net poker calculator:

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Ah 15159 2.30 334954 50.90 307895 46.79 0.256
As Ad 10449 1.59 339664 51.62 307895 46.79 0.248
Ks Kh 0 0.00 652227 99.12 5781 0.88 0.003
Kc Kd 72 0.01 652155 99.11 5781 0.88 0.003
Qs Qh 140114 21.29 515093 78.28 2801 0.43 0.214
6s 5s 181339 27.56 473868 72.02 2801 0.43 0.276

Yeah, but now calculate the odds of that actually happening.

Yes, that is an extreme example, and won't occur all too often. :)

However, heads up against pocket aces, 65 suited has the highest win percentage of any hand.

I was just trying to point out that calling with 56s in that situation is not a good play. In reality we play poker with the cards face down and unless you were UTG, you would likely be facing some hefty raises. When I see a hefty raise I fold that crap, especially with people to act behind me. The real value of suited connectors is getting in cheap on multi way pots. There's no way that happens in that scenario. More than likely, someone goes all in after the first or second raise. The Queens even fold if he's a good player and is fortunate enough to see three raises in front of him. However, if you've found a game that passive, please contact me. I'll fly up.

M, good points, but before automatically folding you'd have to look at the pot odds you're getting. If it's a limit game (let's say $1/$2) and you are in the BB with the 65s here's what you might be looking at:

SB posts .50
BB posts 1.00 (1.50 in pot)
EP calls 1.00 and raises 1.00 (3.50 in pot)
EP+1 calls 2 and raises 1.00 (6.50 in pot)
MP calls 3.00 and caps 1.00 (10.50 in pot)
LP calls 3.00 (13.50 in pot)
SB folds (we'll assume)
Now it's $3 to you with 13.50 in the pot, so you are getting better than 4:1 on your call. You almost always have to call that, especially since there are the EP players to act behind you, giving you even better implied odds. Yes, it's 3 bets to you, but with the pot paying you that much it's a bargain.

I said above that you generally want to play suited connectors in late position with a lot of callers, for sure. If I'm in the BB and there is one raiser to me with everyone else folding I'm folding my 65s without question. But with multiple callers, even with a raise or 2, it's a smart call. I'd say the same thing about small pocket pairs. If you can get good enough odds, it's worth it to play them since you will make out the times you hit your set and get paid off handsomely.

btw, if my numbers are off there it's due to an overly high abundance of sudafed in my system. Sorry.

Dan,

PM...

Good points, I've been playing a lot more no-limit recently and wasn't really thinking about a limit game. I still like that play much better with the pair in the hole though. It's easier to get away from if you don't hit your set and you're less likely to run into a higher straight/flush if you do hit.There's nothing worse than flopping a draw and not getting there or getting there and still being beat. Although set-over-set will suck a lot of money away as well.

Let me have your thoughts on a live action hand I experienced recently. This is from a WSOP super satellite(really a one table tourney to a 60-handed WSOP satellite). 10 players, 1500 in chips, blinds starting at 25-50.

sb:p25
bb:p50
UTG:r100
p4:r500
p5:fold
p6:c500
p7:c500
p8:fold
p9(me): looks down to see JJ

What do you do? I'll give the ridiculous result of this hand after you answer. I'd also like to point out that this was the very first hand played.

Wow, I wish I had read your post 10 minutes ago. I just lost 2/3 of my stack with JJ (unfortunately for me, I was up against QQ) on a $25 NL table.

I am not a big fan of JJ (especially not now, lol), and I think I'd have a hard time dropping 1/3 of my stack just to see a flop with it. However, in a single table tourney, the guy that takes down this pot (which I'd have to assume will have at least 2 players all in by the river) is going to be in pretty good shape the rest of the way.

I think you have 2 options there. You either fold, or push your stack in. Pushing in will do 1 of 3 things;

1) you may take the pot right there.
2) you may get a caller that you are better than a coinflip against (an AQ or AK); or dominate (1010, 99) and triple up
3) you may get called by QQ, KK, or AA and get busted.

I think the worst thing to do is call, since you have the original raiser left to act, and he might push in behind you.

As much as I hate JJ, I think I'd push in. If it is a single seat payout, then I definitely do. Winning this hand gives you at least 30% of the chips on the table and puts you in good shape.

Of course, I'd probably have my eyes closed when I do it!

You're right, there are two options:fold or all-in. I had a hard tie making my decision. Ultimately, I really thought he had AK at best, he just did not have a look that made me put him on AA or KK. When noone elsed raised hin I thought there were probably a lot of Aces and kings already out so I pushed it all. There was also a 5-10 game one table over populated by morons so going broke there would have still paid off. Anyway, I pushed and p4 called. Everyone else folds. He proceeds to trun over K9 of diamonds. I gape, stunned at his stupidity... and win a huge pot.

Great read. That's where being at a B&M definitely pays off. Trying to read that kind of weakness online is tough if you haven't played a bunch of hands with the player already.

How did you do the rest of the way...

Keeping Stats

While keeping track of your winnings in the most basic manner is pretty easy if you only play at one site, or one casino, ideally you should have a better idea of what your strengths or weaknesses are. Are you a winner at Holdem but way down at Stud8? Do you play better on weekends, or weeknights? What hands are the most profitable for you? Least profitable?

If you don't want to invest any money, you can at least know some of the above. All you need is a spreadsheet and a few minutes to set up the fields you need. Excel is fine for this kind of thing, but if you are pretty good with Access or some other database app then that would be even better. Here's what you want to track:

Date
Day
Time started (if it's a ring game, the time you sat down)
Game (holdem, omaha, etc)
Stakes (no limit, pot limit, fixed)
Blinds/bet amounts
Buyin
(I fill the above fields out as soon as I sit down at a table, then when I'm done I fill in these:)
# of hands played (hopefully the site you play keeps track)
Time finished
Amount of $$$ left

Then you just need to set up some calculations/queries to keep track of:

Total time played
Total won/lost
Win/loss by game
Win/loss by limit
Win/loss by day (Saturdays are the most profitable for me)
BB(big bets)/100 hands (NL or PL)
BB/Hr (fixed)
The last 2 are what top pros judge themselves by. At the high limits a top pro is happy to make 1-2 BB/Hr. Online they make more than that.

Calculating some of this might be tough if you aren't an excel freak, but it's not horrible.

Of course, you can also spend $60 and take the easy way out and buy Pokertracker (www.pokertracker.com). This Access-based piece of software will give you all the above, plus more, PLUS keep track of every hand you've ever played. It will give you every stat you could ever think of, and many you've never heard of. Do you think it's wise to play AJo from early position? Check pokertracker and see if it's a winner or a loser (it will almost certainly be a loser). Without a doubt, pokertracker is da shizzle for online poker stats.

You need to have your hand histories emailed to you for it to track everything, but that isn't terrible to set up. It will even check your POP3 email accounts for you and automatically import any hand history messages. The only downside of it is it doesn't work with many of the smaller sites. Party, Pokerstars, and Ultimate Bet are fine, play outside of those and it's iffy. Check their website to see if your site will work or not. They do have a trial version you can download that's good for 1000 hands max. The only problem I've seen with the software is the database gets really big because it tracks not only your stats, but also the stats of everyone you've ever played. That's right, you can sit at a table on Party, then check pokertracker to see what kind of numbers you have on the people that are there. Hmm.... bigfeesh likes to raise with junk like Q9 and J8? Good to know. Senorshark only raises with QQ, KK, or AA? Good to know.

You need to have several thousand hands in the database before you can really rely on the statistical significance of the numbers, but even a small amount of hands might be helpful to you.

If you play online a lot and don't have pokertracker you really should spend the $60, it's well worth it. At the very least, set up something in Excel to track your money, it will save you some in the long run.

If you are playing a significant amount of poker you probably know by now that you'll have some good days and bad days. In my case, it's been good weeks and bad weeks lately, with the bad weeks being REALLY bad of late. I had a very profitable September, pretty much broke even in October, a little better in November, and December started out horribly. I was down about $200 in just the first week and a half, and if not for a couple of huge sessions it would have been worse.

When things started going bad I made a very big mistake - I didn't look at the overall 'big picture'. After getting good hands beaten by incredibly lucky breaks (well, unlucky for me) over and over again I started pressing, trying to make up for it by playing an overly loose game. Sure, sometimes marginal hands will pay off, but in the long run you will be most profitable by simply playing good cards.

Without a doubt, 'In the long run' is how you have to look at things. This is why it's important to have enough of a bankroll in play to support the inevitable swings that a game like poker will subject you to.

In DG terms, think of it as sticking to the high percentage shot that guarantees the par, rather than the risky, works once in a while shot at a bird. In the world of poker, pars are where your bread and butter should be.

Since then I have rebounded pretty well. I've cashed in 4 of the last 5 tourneys I entered, and have cashed in 3 of the last 4 Sit n Go's. My ring game has evened out and since Pokerstars has started giving out big amounts to cash to players in their 'countdown to one billion hands' celebration, the action on the tables is better than ever. I love it when people sit down at an Omaha hi/lo table that have never played the game before. :D

Dan

P.S. - My excel tracking worksheet is almost completely done, with tons of new stats added. If anyone is interested just PM me and I'll send you a copy.

Dan, I know what you mean. I lost a $927 pot with AA against JJ. All in pre-flop and the board came 3 A Q K 10. I love poker!

Dan, do you play on Pokerroom.com at all? I have made almost $900 in real money since i started there with $5 last month. I would like to play against you.

Aaron, no I haven't played pokerroom, but my brother in law was just telling me today that he likes it there. I'll probably check it out this weekend. I will let you know if I sign up for sure.

Kidroc - a guy I know has a great theory on big pairs like AA and KK. He says when he wins with them he doesn't count the full value of what he's won. In a case like yours, you were probably a 3:1 favorite, so if he wins $100 there, he only considers it a win of $75, and when he gets boned and loses $100, he only lost $25. If you can look at it that way (and it isn't easy when you are such a big favorite and lose), it can take some of the sting out of it.

yeah need to play more!!

Wow, I love poker! It has been a good week. :)

Dan, do you only play online or have you found some poker clubs? There are a few here in the DFW area and they are a ton of fun to go to.

Unfortunately, the only clubs in this area (semi-upstate NY) are, well, let's say, just a bit illegal. I'm 3+ hours from Atlantic City and Foxwoods, so we don't get out that way much (although the wife is planning a trip for February, now that she has the poker bug).

At this point, 99% of my play is online, with it normally split between Planet Poker for ring games and PokerStars for tourneys. I have cashed in one of the regular Omaha8 tourneys 5 out of the last 6 times now, but haven't made a final table in forever it seems.

Oh yeah, the clubs we go to are very illegal. It is crazy how much they look like the Chesterfield in Rounders. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The disc golfers around here are hooked on poker so there are some cheap home games 3-4 times a week. Those are very "luck based" games though. I usually don't win much there.

There was a pretty big tourney going on at a local golf club over the early winter, by the time they got busted it was something like 5 tables full of guys with a $100 buyin. I would have been all over that, so I guess I'm glad I didn't hear about it until after the fact.


Why is it fine to go to OTB and waste your social security check (heck, they'll even cash it there for you), and fine to drop $50 a week on the lottery, but they make poker (which is NOT a game of luck, but a game of skill) out to be like it's worse than crack dealing? Could it be because the states are making millions on OTB and the lottery (what I prefer to call the 'moron tax')?

All online casinos are based overseas because it's illegal to run one from within the U.S. If the gov't got wise they could actually make some tax $$ from online poker, instead of losing it. I won't get a 1099 from PokerStars, but I sure as heck would from TrumpOnlinePoker.com if there was one. I also would feel more comfortable knowing that a U.S. based online casino was regulated and audited, and that I had an avenue for retribution if something funny happened.

Heh, most of the people who play poker still think it is mostly luck. lol

/my rant
I have have been playing a lot of NLH lately and I have noticed a few things. I am starting to figure out why Phil Ivey says he doesn't enjoy tournaments. He says there is more luck involved in them than in live games. (He was the king of bad beats at the 03 WSOP and still finished in the top 10).

Especially, the small 10-15 people disc golfer game that we have 2-3 times a week. We start with 4-5k in chips. Blinds start at 25-50 and they double every 20 minutes. It isn't for much money and to me it is more about hanging out with my dg buddies, so I am not complaining, but I see a ton more luck in that game than the live games I play and the Sit-n-go tables at party poker. It is partially because it is cheap and people will run you down when there isn't much cash at stake and the blinds do eat you up fast if you don't catch cards at that 200-400 level. Usually, I get real aggressive there and bluff a lot. That way I know I will either get a lot of chips or be out quick. I hate being blinded out.

Dan, I agree with some of your rant. The lotto is pure luck, but the OTB/horse racing is not.

By the way, I only wish that horseracing was like poker in that you could find a bunch of saps to congregate every night on-line or in the living room and take their money. As it is, the takeout in horseracing is so high that only the very best players can make money (because not only do you have to be better than your competition, you have to be so much better to overcome the take).

I agree with you on the tourney luck factor. One way to remove some of it is to slow down the blind escalation. Doubling every 20 from 25/50 is not too bad early on, since you're at 100/200 after an hour, but when you are at 800/1600 after 2:20 it's gonna be rough.

In the smaller buyin online tourneys I usually use the same strategery that you do - try and double up quickly, and if it fails then find a ring game to make up for what I lost on the buyin. The difference is online there are plenty of 'customers' that are clueless enough to give you a good shot at hitting some big pots early on. When you don't get decent cards in the first hour and miss all those opportunities is when it really hurts.

speaking of saps :D...I am planning a poker night
Saturday after the gccs at the ROCK..
Would you like to join?

I take the oppisite approach. I let everyone else try to double up early(and either kill themselves or get caught into a loose play pattern). I wait out for the unlucky ones to drop and the now overly loose chip leaders to bully at the wrong times.

Kidroc,

IMO, blinding out should not be an option when you are trying to win. 7x's the big blind is where you should make your move by going allin preflop (start looking for your hand around 10x the bb). 7x the BB is enough chips to push anything but premium hands out preflop, and more times then not buys you the pot and pays for another round around the table(or a limp in or 2). If you are careful in selecting the right cards and moment to push in, then at worst you should be in a coin toss to doubleup. Doubling up with 7xBB puts you in a very good position as apposed to 2-3 BB allin which if you double up doesnt do all that much good and forces you to have to do it all over again wihtin another orbit around the table.

The one exception to this imo would be if you are near cash and are satisfied with just making the cash, then you could sit and hope to cash and hope you can get lucky on the BB allin.

When I started studying poker I was pretty good at tournaments. Now, I am SUCKING in the Sit-n-go's but making it all up plus a lot more in live games. I think it is because I have become a much more aggressive player from reading Super System.

Went to the poker club friday night and lost $150 on a terrible bad beat. Then, last night, I played a $50 NL live game on Party Poker and about an hour into it (I was playing tight and sitting about even), I got A9. The board came 299. I bet out and a guy put me all in. I immediately called and he was on a stone cold bluff. He only had KQ. The turn came a Q. The river came a Q. Did anyone hear any cuss words in the wind last night? I think I woke the neighbors up with mine. lol

So, I was ******. But I took a couple hours off and got back in another room and turned $50 into $180. Then went to bed. I just got in another room, got pocket aces on the first hand and got an all in call from a guy with pocket 10's. I just doubled up and not I am $25 behind after 2 of the worst beats I have ever seen.

No limit has some FUN SWINGS!!!! :p

Man, thats horrible luck! Party Poker can get way too addicting and costly. I usually sit at the $50NL tables for a couple hours when I feel like it. I've found out that there are a lot of idiots who are on those tables who aren't that good and like to give away their money. :cool:I usually can turn my 50 into 100 bux in less than an hour, if I don't get terrible breaks like you described. QQ...OUCH!

I dont trust too many online poker sites, even though i usually always end up ahead in any given night. Ive found that most sites, other than pokerstars, are set up by betting patterns, not card randomization. I believe the key to a good night of online poker is to stay on one site for at least a month and get used to the hands that come out, but id say you have to see at least a couple thousand hands before getting used to it. I use pokerroom.com, and have gotten used to it, because it seems predictable after a while. THere is a flush about every 4 hands, a straight every 10 hands, and 4 of a kinds are fairly common.

I think the key to avoiding bad beats on these sites is to trust what the opponent is betting. If its a big bet, he almost always has it. If you have to think for more than 5 seconds after he bets large, he has it. Ive seen too much crazy stuff, such as what Kid Roc described, to try and think my set of Aces or any paint cards are good, before the flop or after. In Kid Roc's case however, that is just ridiculous.

Well, bad beats happen. I am up $420 on Party Poker since the first of the year, so I can take a bad beat here and there. :)

420?

coincidence! :o

it must be a sign! :D

Flopped a boat last night on Party... Held K-4 in the BB no pre-flop raise. Flop K-44 - 4th 6, 5th x - dude with pp6 stayed in. Luckily for me I drew this sucker boat in the 1/2 limit room instead of the NL room lol...

Brutal.

Brutal indeed...

Playing a PL Omaha Hi/Lo SitNGo last night I get AK44 in the big blind on the 2nd hand. 4 people limp and the flop comes 944 with 2 hearts. Me likey that one! I check it around and one guy minimum bets, the button raises the pot to me and I just call. Turn is an 8 of hearts, I minimum bet and the button raises the pot again. I reraise and go all in, he calls with AA2J with 2 hearts. Turn is a 10 (no low possible) and I double up on the 2nd hand. Me really likey that!

Unfortunately, after that I had the worst cards possible and only saw one more hand (not including the BBs when I got a free look) out of the next 35. We are 4 handed (SnGs pay the top 3), I am the short stack, and I finally get a hand - AA22 suited. I raise, big stack on the button calls and the flop is about the worst one I can ask for - JQK. It does have 2 of my suit, so I bet out but the button then raises me all in. It's a call of 300 for a pot of 3000 so I can't fold and sure enough, he had KK. I don't get the flush and I am out.

I guess I used up all my luck in the first hand. :(

freakin addicting isn't it!!

I got into a $50 NL side table today and lost it all in 3 hands. But I felt confident against the other players and re-bought in. Turned that 2nd $50 into $260. BOOM BABY!

you did this today?? where do you work?? are you guys hiring??

Well, I go to school. But I guess lately, I have been working for PARTY POKER!!!!

sounds good!! what are you studying statistics!!

Ha..i work for a poker website also, Pokerroom.com. Its funny, because sometimes they pay me, and other times i pay them...

Ok, I got a sweet, 2 part story about a couple hands I played Thursday night.

I went to a buddie's house to play a little $10 tournament with about a dozen or so disc golf buddies. These are more about hanging out with the guys than the money involved (for me a least). There is more luck involved in these because the blinds go up really fast and most people are loose and play off their luck. 5th hand into the night, I get kings. It was raised in front of me and I decided to act like I was buying the pot by overbetting and going all in. I sensed strength in the raiser and figured he may call with AK or AQ. Well, he had AK suited and called. Ace came on the turn and I am OUT! I was pretty sore about that hand for the next few minutes until the host said he has Party Poker too.

So, I get into a $50 NL live game and I find a good table with a seat open to the left of the big stack. I love that seat! I played for about 10 minutes and finally got K 10 offsuit. Raised a little and got called. Flop came 10 10 J (2 spades). I didn't want to get busted by the flush, so I overbet the pot. $15 into a $11 pot. He called me really quickly, but just called. I had a good guess that he was on the draw, so I was gonna make him pay. Turn came a 7 of hearts, he checked to me and I bet $25. He thought about it for like a second and called. Now, I am 99% sure he has 2 spades. River comes and it is a spade, but OOPS it is the 7 of spades. Full house to his flush and this time he didn't check. He went all in and I doubled up. I was in the room for under a half hour and made like $125.

I saw a private table on PartyPoker tonight called discgolfer10. It was password protected though... :(

If anyone wants to pm me with the password, I'd like to play a little.

Here's a weird one. I'm playing a Pot Limit Omaha hi/low Sit n Go on Pokerstars last night. I absolutely love these games, especially at the $20 limit and below, since at least half the table is filled with people that never play Omaha hi/low and just wanted to get in a SnG. The rest of the players are usually semi decent and more often than not there is one guy that I have to worry about.

Anyway, the last one I played last night had 3 straight flushes occur, out of 102 hands played. I had the first one pretty early on, but had to split it since I didn't make a low (yeah, that sucked). Second one was a Royal flush and came to the guy that ended up in 4th, but luckily for the rest of us he knocked out 2 guys with it. One guy had a low draw that didn't come, and the other guy had Aces full of Kings. That is just a brutal beat, to say the least.

The 3rd one came when I was heads up with the eventual 2nd place finisher. He had it, but luckily I didn't have anything worth calling his bet on, so all he got was my blind. He he.

I have a pretty good story.

Playing 4 handed with my sister, my buddy Josh and out other buddy Damon.

I was dealing and Josh is on my left and my sister is on my right. I deal myself AK suited. My sister calls the big blind. I then call the big blind and raise 5 bucks (we play low money cuz all my friends are broke bums) Josh thinks abour it for a minute then calls. Damon folds so now its just us three. Flop comes J 10 5. Josh checks and my sister also checks. I push all in. We flip them over. I have AK suited as you all know. My sister has pocket queens and josh has AQ off suit. I still have a good chance at this pot. Turn is a 9. Then the river comes and its a 8. They both hit the straight to the queen and i lose 20 bucks. I rebuy in. About a half hour later i get AK againg. This time its unsuited. Im on the big blind. Everybody calls around so i take my option and raise again. This time only my sister calls and she just calls. Flop comes low again. Something like 10 5 2. All rags. She checks it to me. So i push all in again figuring shes got nothing or she would have raised pre flop and on the flop. She turns over pocket Kings. I lose another 20 bucks. About an hour later i get dealt AK suited again. and im on the small blind this time. Gets around to me with just calls and no bets so i raise. Josh folds to the left of me and damon folds 2 to the left of me. My sister again just calls. So i figure she has something worth keeping but nothing to great. Flop comes K 10 5. I paired my kings with my ace kicker. The action comes around to me again. So again i rais. My sister thinks about if for a couple minutes and then calls me. The turn comes Q. She just checks so i go all in. She again thinks about it for an exstended period of time and then just calls. This time she flips over POCKET FREAKIN ROCKETS. FREAKIN AMERICAN AIRLINES. So again i freakin lose 20 more dollars. All of this happened in a 4 handed game in a matter of 2 hours. I was just blown away by the fact that every time i had AK she had a high pocket pair in a FREAKIN FOUR HANDED GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh well. Given the same situation again i would have bet it and played it the exact same way.

Its ok cuz i went to the casino last night and won 130 bucks playing blackjack :D

Well, you know what they say Steve, that non-internet poker stuff is rigged. :D

Yeah right. I heard about that. Oh well im going to Vegas in Feb and then ill really be able to see if im as good as i think i am. Im going to get in some tournaments at some of the casinos and see how i do. Maybe if i do well ill be able to pay for my trip :D

That's the danger of being too aggressive.Other players will let you do the betting for their good hand. I'm guessing you were also betting out of position. Don't underestimate the importance of position when betting. You would have lost those hands but not as much money.

Its ok man. They can let me do the betting for them because i only do it when I have a good hand as well. Every time except for the last all i had to do was catch one of my 2 cards to win. Ill take those odd all day long. Plus i steal alot of pots being aggressive like that so it makes up for the post i lose when i get beat like that. You cant make money if you just sit back and not play aggresive. After that hit i made 70 one nite and then 50 the next nite then 45 the nite after that. Ill play the same hands the same way every time. In each bet i was the last to act and it was checked to me so i wasnt betting in early postition and even if i was i had Big Slick and NO ONE was betting.

I've heard Pimp can throw a poker chip 500'.

Ughh...here we go again..

:)

I hear Pimp can throw a poker chip 500'



<font size=5>LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</font>

You guys crack me up. :D:D:D:p

Its ok man. They can let me do the betting for them because i only do it when I have a good hand as well. Every time except for the last all i had to do was catch one of my 2 cards to win. Ill take those odd all day long. Plus i steal alot of pots being aggressive like that so it makes up for the post i lose when i get beat like that. You cant make money if you just sit back and not play aggresive. After that hit i made 70 one nite and then 50 the next nite then 45 the nite after that. Ill play the same hands the same way every time. In each bet i was the last to act and it was checked to me so i wasnt betting in early postition and even if i was i had Big Slick and NO ONE was betting.



I'm not looking to start anything, but I'll take any pocket pair over 'big slick' any day of the week. While slick is a good hand multiway, it's still a dog to any pair.

Ok, I need to rephrase that, I'll take any pocket pair except jacks over big slick. Jacks are the poker gods way of saying 'bend over'.

Its ok man. They can let me do the betting for them because i only do it when I have a good hand as well. Every time except for the last all i had to do was catch one of my 2 cards to win. Ill take those odd all day long. Plus i steal alot of pots being aggressive like that so it makes up for the post i lose when i get beat like that. You cant make money if you just sit back and not play aggresive. After that hit i made 70 one nite and then 50 the next nite then 45 the nite after that. Ill play the same hands the same way every time. In each bet i was the last to act and it was checked to me so i wasnt betting in early postition and even if i was i had Big Slick and NO ONE was betting.



I'm not looking to start anything, but I'll take any pocket pair over 'big slick' any day of the week. While slick is a good hand multiway, it's still a dog to any pair.

Ok, I need to rephrase that, I'll take any pocket pair except jacks over big slick. Jacks are the poker gods way of saying 'bend over'.



I couldnt agree more!!! Jacks have cost me tons of cash.

I like how he says he plays the same way every time. I love playing guys like that. ;) :D

You wont like playing guys like me. Ill take big SLICK any day over pocket pairs except KK and AA. You can make a TON of money with big slick and its also an EASY hand to get away from. I would never reraise with big slick but in a 4 handed game when no one is raising they are just calling then ill make them PAY to see the flop and if they just check of call again then im going to go all in a make them pay to draw. Do you know what the chances of gettin a pocket pair are in a 4 handed game???

We will have to play sometime if i ever run into you guys. Ill let you know how i do in the tournaments in Vegas :D

it was the first hand in an easy $10 buy-in, 10 person, no limit tourney table on pacific poker. everyone started with 1000 in chips and i started on the big blind (sweet). looking at A3 unsuited i just check to see what flops, i believe it was 38A or something very similar. i call the suckers ahead of me, and what do you know A comes on the turn. i reraise, doubling the high bet knowing at least 1 will stay in. 2 end up staying in and on to the river we go. the river was some card (doesn't matter), 1st guy raises, 2nd calls, and i reraise all-in (my raise is about $500). instead of 1 calling, both call again and i triple up on the first hand while ousting 2 players. $$$$

Yet another thread where Steve has to defend himself. It must be hard when all you care about is what other people think of you. LOL! :p

Just speaking my mind. Not really defending myself cuz i could care less if you guys think im good or not. By the way did i tell you i can throw a Plastic playing card 550' :eek: Its hard though cuz they are so flippy :D

anyone watch the WTP last night? **** that was some good cards!! what a great read!! laying down AJ pre-flop versus AA!! wow

Ive laid down AJ preflop before. Its depends on the situation and how many players there are and what the position is. What was the situation. Heads up?? 4 Man game 5 man game 9 man game???

I didnt get to see it so i just want to know what you consider a good read???

Every once in a while those guys show why they make the big $$$. It's not always Gus Hansen and Daniel Negreanu playing 36 offsuit and getting a 245 flop.

BTW, I just got knocked out of a tourney with AJ on a flop of AA3. Other guy had AQ. Remind me to add AJ to the list with JJ of hands that suck.

Oh wait, it's already on the list, I just never read down that far. :D

2 in action aj raises 100K raise aa call raise 400K and acts a bit too excited ! aj folds preflop! you had too see it!! great cards!!

Laying down AJ is not a hard decision. Easy hand to raise with and an easy hand to fold.

even preflop? :D

As Roy Cooke likes to say, it depends. But, yes, laying down AJ vs a raise is not a bad idea. I can't tell you the number of times I've seen someone get all riled up after calling a raise with AJ and then getting busted when their Ace is outkicked. That or they flop the J only to lose to AA, KK or QQ. It cracks me up everytime. Playing AJ agressively is a good way to go broke.

hhmmmm thanks for the insight!! i have only played 5 times , keep the lessons coming!! i am even though!! made last play twice!! :D:D

I agree. :cool:

As Roy Cooke likes to say, it depends. But, yes, laying down AJ vs a raise is not a bad idea. I can't tell you the number of times I've seen someone get all riled up after calling a raise with AJ and then getting busted when their Ace is outkicked. That or they flop the J only to lose to AA, KK or QQ. It cracks me up everytime. Playing AJ agressively is a good way to go broke.



M - are you a UPFer by any chance? Or do you get your Cooke'isms from cardplayer?

AJ is kinda weird - against the average dolt that plays A6 or A9 against a raise you're doing pretty well. Against anyone halfway decent (who will toss weak aces without a second thought) you are toast.

In my case from last night, I was the BB and got AJ suited. There were 3 limpers to me and I made the standard 5x BB raise hoping to take the limpers out and move on. Only the button called me. Since he limped I put him on a small pair, or a weak ace. This was very early in the tourney, so I had no reads on anyone.

When the flop came AAx I was in one of those happy/sad modes. Happy that I flopped trips, sad that if he raised me I'd be potentially screwed. Sure enough, I bet the pot and he pushed in. Common sense told me to fold. Sure, he could (and most likely was) be playing a weaker ace, but for all I know he flopped a made boat already.

The fact that this was very early in a tourney and since it was only a $5 buyin (1300+ players), I had to use the 'any monkey' logic and figure I had him outkicked.

The 'any monkey' logic is not perfect. He showed AQ and I didn't hit one of the remaining Jacks. Why he limped with AQ (which in all reality is about (well, almost) as weak as AJ) I'm not sure. Makes him look like a genius, but it's not a spectacular play if you ask me. Most any other flop and he'd almost have to fold to whatever I bet, but c'est la vie.

AJ is kinda weird - against the average dolt that plays A6 or A9 against a raise you're doing pretty well. Against anyone halfway decent (who will toss weak aces without a second thought) you are toast.



Totally agree. Online against shmucks it's pretty nice. Against good players, it's weak.


Why he limped with AQ (which in all reality is about (well, almost) as weak as AJ) I'm not sure. Makes him look like a genius, but it's not a spectacular play if you ask me. Most any other flop and he'd almost have to fold to whatever I bet, but c'est la vie.



Why he originally limped is not the question. The question is why he called your 5x BB raise from the BB. Maybe that's what you meant. Limping is fine, in case you get to see the flop for the price of the limp and it happens to be AAx. But even on the button, AQ is pretty weak to be calling that raise, given what we know of the circumstance.

I can understand the call of the raise (5BB call in a pot that has 9BB already = odds of just a bit less than 2:1).

If he puts me on a pocket pair, he is only a 13:10 dog. Where he is screwed is against AK or AA, but I guess he felt lucky.

I just think you have to try to limit the field preflop with that hand (why I raised in the first place). Heads up, AQ plays much better than it does 5 way.

anyone here play on pokerroom.com?? you can catch me there late nights kcrhyno is my handle

I can understand the call of the raise (5BB call in a pot that has 9BB already = odds of just a bit less than 2:1).

If he puts me on a pocket pair, he is only a 13:10 dog. Where he is screwed is against AK or AA, but I guess he felt lucky.

I just think you have to try to limit the field preflop with that hand (why I raised in the first place). Heads up, AQ plays much better than it does 5 way.



Good points.

Have any of you guys read Super System by Doyle Brunson???

I read it and i just oredered Super System 2.

Super System is the BIBLE of poker. Must read for every card player.

Ill let you know how #2 is once i get it in the mail.

Dan,
Mostly from cardplayer. I don't get to read as much as I used to but I always find time for his column.

The only problem with your raise(that I see) is you were getting a free look with a good hand. Just checking there gives you a great play. First, you avoid any trappers with high pairs or dominating hands, we've all heard the saying "beware the limper". Basically, if anyone comes over top you should fold. Second, you have a great opportunity to check raise if you hit you ace or jack without an over. Unfortunately, that probably wouldn't have helped you with this hand, not much you could have done there. Finally, you're out of position to anyone but the small blind. You miss and check then you have good reason to fold to any bets behind you.

Yup, you are 100% on the money with that one. I knew I was toast when he pushed in, and would have had about 550 left had I folded, still plenty of time to get to work with blinds at 15/30, but I must have been slightly tilty at that point. Or tired. Or just plain lazy.

I have been playing mostly single table SnGs this month, and figured I'd jump in the tourney since it was starting just as I signed on. Probably a lesson in there about not getting into a multi unless you are prepared to play it at 100%.

Right now, my most prized poker-related possession is a stack of planetpoker.com $25 chips with Roy's picture on them. I use them to practice shuffling while I play (they were a player points bonus prize deal). Roy's articles on cardplayer are great (see them in the 'magazine' section of cardplayer.com). The other authors are all good as well, including Daniel Negreanu, Mike Cappilletti, Rolf Slotbloom, etc.

Westa, I'll be trying out pokerroom this weekend I think, so I'll look for ya.

While I dislike internet poker(way too big an opportunity of collusion), I do play from time to time. I was wondering what people would think of a disc golf match play tournamnet. It would work like this. We get 8 or 16(or more) people and play heads-up in one of the rooms on pokerstars. We could assign brackets and work unitl we were heads -up for a champion. We could start at the $5 table and double it everytime you win. Last person standing get the cash.

We could randomly assign participants and play it out over a resaonablee amount of time. Anbody game?

anyone here play on pokerroom.com?? you can catch me there late nights kcrhyno is my handle



Yeah, i do. My handle is Norhas99...i usually play the $5 and $10 single table tournaments at night, and sometimes the $20+$2 two tables.

Had a pretty good night last night. Got 1st in a 10 person $20 buy in w/ some friends. There were three of us left, and i get pocket 8's, and i was last to act. Got a decent raise from the first guy (about half his chip stack), the second guy called (again about half his stack), and i had the big stack so with the 8's i just call for the fun of it. Flop comes A K 8. Suits didnt matter. First guy raises about half what he has left, the second guy calls. I go all in, get calls from both. My friend to the left had AK, friend to the right had AQ. Got another 8 and it was all over.

lol, 8s did the same for me today basically, but one guy got a flush when i triped on the flop then the board paird i boated it got 2 others to go all in i more than tripled my stack and went on to win it finally....theres ALOT of cheezers on this site though, more than anyother ive seen. this jackass went all in late in a tourny last night with 7 people to act after him and i knew he was full of sh*t, i had pckt 10s so i called him and of course his Q9 off suit go triped up and demolished me. ive had more bad beats on here in 12 hourse than i have in a month playn anywhere else, be it online or brick and morter

Well, I tried Pokerroom tonight and I'm not sure if I like it or not. Fridays are probably not the best times to judge the players of any site, since the weekends bring out the monkey in everyone it seems.

But..... what a bunch of calling station wackos! I played for 3 1/2 hours on a limit Omaha hi/low table and there were at least 6 guys seeing the flop each time, with probably 3 or 4 going all the way to the river. Granted, this wasn't high stakes (.50/1), but that is ridiculously loose. I ended up 8BB, but it probably could have gone either way. My good hands got boned, but the sloppy stuff paid off.

I also tried a $5.50 10 person tourney. It was limit holdem (not my choice, must have read it wrong), and if I thought the Omaha table was loose, ha! Unbelieveable how bad the players were. I got AA on about the 7th or 8th hand, capped every street and only won because the board paired on the river giving me 2 pair. I would have lost to a guy that called 3 bets cold with J2 (and hit 2pr on the turn after he called 3 more bets with a pair of 2s on the flop).

I can't complain too much, I ended up winning it and pocketing a tidy $25, and worked off 2/3 of what I need to unlock the 20% deposit bonus. I think I'll try some no limit this weekend and see how badly the poo gets flung there.

Anyone wants to look me up, I'm JDLush17 there (JDLush everywhere else).

Oh, I like the heads up tourney idea, anyone else interested? Any site is fine with me, pokerstars, planet, pokerroom, I'll even redeposit on Party if that's the consensus.

Hey Dan. Do you ever feel like the percentages and the luck are just not with you at all?

I have been losing tons of even money races and some that I have been slight advantages in. I feel that all I can do is get my money in the pot when I have the best hand and see what happens. Lately, I have been playing some really great poker but losing badly.

I was in a $50 NL live game tonight and after about 2 hours of up and down, I was sitting at around $100. I get Aces and raise to 3x the BB. The guy to my left was on the luckiest streak I have ever seen. He tripled up 2 times in 5 minutes and after being at the table for 30 minutes, he went from $50 to $300. Anyways, he called me and the big blind went all in for about $60. I wanted to force everyone else out so I didnt just call, I went all in as well. He called with KK and hit 2 kings! That pot was about $275. I really hate poker sometimes.

Thanks for letting me vent. :(

Sweet, I just got in a $10 Sit-n-Go. Got trash for about the first 10 hands and got KK on the button. There was a raise and a call so I re-raised to about 5 times the original raise. got called by 3 people. Flop came J54 all offsuit. One guy goes all in and I call. He had AA. I am getting killed tonight. Time to stop for sure. :(

Pokerroom is all about bad beats. The key to winning on the site is about reading them or waiting til they come to beat others. If you have pocket of the same suit and two of those come on the flop, you 99.9 percent WILL get the flush and beat up whoever calls you. A very fun site once you get into it...

im glads im not the only one who feels this way about pokerroom, and yes Dan the NL games are just as bad at the Limit ones acually worse..you get morons goin all in all the time pre flop and alot even with middle or bottom pair

Have any of you guys read Super System by Doyle Brunson???

I read it and i just oredered Super System 2.

Super System is the BIBLE of poker. Must read for every card player.

Ill let you know how #2 is once i get it in the mail.



Where did you order Super System 2? I thought it was only available as a bonus if you played a certain number of raked hands on Doyle's website. I have seen it on Ebay but don't tell me you paid $100 for it. That is what most were going for on there.

Sweet, I just got in a $10 Sit-n-Go. Got trash for about the first 10 hands and got KK on the button. There was a raise and a call so I re-raised to about 5 times the original raise. got called by 3 people. Flop came J54 all offsuit. One guy goes all in and I call. He had AA. I am getting killed tonight. Time to stop for sure. :(



You are in the midst of what the pros call a 'variance period'. Others call it a run of [*****] luck. It happens to everyone, mine happened in December. Just try to stay cool and keep playing smart, the odds will work themselves out eventually. Of course, taking a break isn't a bad idea either, even if it's just for a few days. Read, or re-read a decent poker book and you'll get back into it feeling better.

Or you could do what I sometimes do, and go to the .01/.02 tables and play like a total maniac. It's a pretty good way to relieve stress and only costs you like $5 or so.

Well, I went to a game tonight and banked pretty good (quadrupled my money). 5 hours of great poker with NO BAD BEATS! It is amazing how my feelings towards the game can change in one good or bad session.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the dealer at this game was Texas's best disc golfer. I think I tipped Nolan like $40-50 over the course of the night for all the hands he was giving me. :D

i did well last night on a 5 dollar buy in multi tourny on pokerroom, i took second and won 280, not bad for only 5 bucks eh?

How long did that take?

I did that in my second tournament on pokerroom.com. It also was a $5 buy in multitable and i took 2nd outta 262 and won $283. Mine took just under 4 and a half hours. Worth the wait though. Have played 6-7 $5 multis since and havent gotten anywhere close.

mine took roughly 4 and ahalf hours

Yet another night of poker............bad beat free! Whew! I definetly do better in non-online games. I love playing poker!

what is the best beginner friendly book on texas hold-em?

ES, for a real beginner, I'd recommend Ken Warren Teaches Texas Holdem (not 100% sure of the title, but it's written by Ken Warren). It is not going to go as in depth as some of the other, more expensive books out there, but for the money it's definitely worth it.

My wife has read that book (and only that one) and she is now playing on Pokerstars (maybe a couple of nights a week) and has been turning a pretty regular profit.

Once you get a few thousand hands under your belt you can move on to other books, I'd recommend Winning Low Limit Holdem by Lee Jones next, but read the Ken Warren book at least a couple of times before you move up.

dan , thanx!! i have played texas no limit hold em 5 times!! first 2 times i was too enebriated and inexperienced to realize what was going on!! the last 3 times have really been fun however!! all 3 being 20-25 buy in!! 6-12-16 number of players!! i made it too the last play on 2 of those games , so i am positive a few dollars!!

I am sure Dan knows more about which books are the best for beginners but the first book I read was Phil Hellmuth's book, Play poker like the Pros. I liked it because it teaches you to play really tight and slowly progresses you to play more hands and more agressive as your talents go up. Now I am in the process of reading Super System (3rd time through it) and I am loving it. Last night I was definetly playing the hands like Doyle would. I was so freaking agressive, it was amazing (and it worked like a charm).

I think as soon as I get done reading it again, I am going to get Dan Harrington's new book, Harrington on Holdem.

Super System is the way to go. I would say that it doubled the number of pots that i would win in a night after reading it just one time. I have since read it again and i am winning a few more pots then the first time i read it. Its definatley not a book for newbies though thats for sure. It will only work wonders in the hands of someone who has been playing for a while and knows all of the basics and a little bit more.

I just ordered Super System 2 off of ebay. This book features Johnny Chan and Dan Negraudo (sp) and some other worlds class players advice in it. Should be at my house when i go home today. Ill let you guys know how that one works out and if its worth the money.

How much did you spend on it?

I liked Phil Hellmuth's book as well. It also is nice because it goes over some of the basics on other games like Omaha and Stud. You have to weed through a few 'look at how great I played this hand' stories from Phil, but I find those pretty entertaining. Like the guy or not, he is a great poker player.

I'd be very interested in reading Super System 2. I read Super System once and then loaned it out to someone, never to be seen again. I think I read it too soon tho, since a lot of the concepts were above my head at the time (like, why the hell would I raise with a draw?).

Another good source of info is cardplayer mag (I think I mentioned this before maybe). They are kind enough to post a lot of the articles online, it's well worth the cost to read them, hehe.

I crunched my numbers for January last night. I ended the month up $530. I think that's pretty good considering the majority of my play was in $5 and $10 single table tourneys. I wanted to hone my tourney skills some since I have not been able to make the final table in a multi in a while. I also discovered that I make more $$ playing Pot Limit Omaha hi/lo than every other game combined. I think I need to play more Holdem to even that out a bit, so that's one of my next goals.

I don't know anyone who likes Phil Hellmuth as much as I do. Not that I like him to a great extent, but everyone just can't stand him. To tell you the truth, he and I have way different personalities, but if I was at the level he is (or playing at the stakes he is) I would be super cocky. It is great for intimidating the players at the table. Like him or not, he is FEARED at the table, which (IMO) is the biggest advantage you can have in poker.

It is great for intimidating the players at the table. Like him or not, he is FEARED at the table, which (IMO) is the biggest advantage you can have in poker.



I second that. Hard to be feared online tho, lol.

It is great for intimidating the players at the table. Like him or not, he is FEARED at the table, which (IMO) is the biggest advantage you can have in poker.



I second that. Hard to be feared online tho, lol.



I have very mixed feelings of online poker. Fortunately, living in DFW, there are so many live games, I could play everyday 12 hours a day and never have to go online. Of course, I would never do that, but it is nice to not rely on online poker as my only way to play for big bucks.

I agree. I personally can't stand online poker. It is just a totally different concept and feel to it. Plus, if I play online for very long, and then go to live game, I dont feel as mentally strong....

When I am really "on" I can pick up betting patterns and timing patterns in my online opponents to figure out what their cards are. But that is very hard and it takes a long time at one particular table to learn them like that. Much easier live.

then you are better then me.
better.
get it?
lol

It is great for intimidating the players at the table. Like him or not, he is FEARED at the table, which (IMO) is the biggest advantage you can have in poker.




I completely agree with you on this. Being feared at a poker table is the biggest advantage you can have. Its more important then your cards and chips put together.

Thats why i like playing like Super System so much. Its VERY VERY aggressive. I throw in a little of my own style but pretty much use the core of super system. When we play our home games we dont usually draw for seats we just sit where we want and all you hear is "Im not sitting to the right of Mills i want to sit to the left of him. This is because I play VERY VERY AGGRESIVE and dont hesitate to re raise and go all in. I have no problem putting someone to a decision for all of their chips at any time during the game. From the first hand dealt to the end of the session.

If you can get your oppenents to FEAR you then you will make ALOT more money then you are right now :D


How much did you spend on it?



I think i paid a little under 30. That included shipping.

then you are better then me.
better.
get it?
lol



I don't know about that. I am still learning. That was just an example of when I am "on."

kewl thanx!!! :D

Thats why i like playing like Super System so much. Its VERY VERY aggressive. I throw in a little of my own style but pretty much use the core of super system.



Just don't ever forget to change gears. Even the man (Doyle) had to change his play up after he wrote the book. Everyone knew how he played. If you are playing against a good player, that has also read super system, you are actually going to be at a disadvantage. He will know what you are going to do and that isn't what you want.

I think I know the type of game you talk about (with your friends). That type of game, you could play for years and never change it up and still do fine. They don't pay enough attention to catch on. But be careful when you get to the bigger, less familiar games.

Just don't ever forget to change gears. Even the man (Doyle) had to change his play up after he wrote the book. Everyone knew how he played. If you are playing against a good player, that has also read super system, you are actually going to be at a disadvantage. He will know what you are going to do and that isn't what you want.

I think I know the type of game you talk about (with your friends). That type of game, you could play for years and never change it up and still do fine. They don't pay enough attention to catch on. But be careful when you get to the bigger, less familiar games



Oh i always remember to change it up. I change it up ALL THE TIME. I always am using the core basics of Super System for my starting hands and what not. I throw a little of my own style in there though. I play in a way that the guys that i play with pretty much NEVER know what my hole cards are. I have people try and put me on hands all the time. Then i flip up something not even close to what they thought.

I think im going to get into some tournaments in the vegas casinos and see how i do there. This will be the true test if i am a good player or not. Ill let you know how those tournaments work out for me.

Steve, please definitely post how you do, where you played, etc.

I will be in Vegas the first weekend in May for the wife's 40th bday. We are staying at the MonteCarlo (they say they have a nice, reasonably sized poker room there), but I'm sure I'll be wanting to hit a few others, Bellagio being the holy grail of course.

We'll be in Atlantic City the last weekend of this month, probably playing at the Bellagio most of the time. It doesn't look like they have tourneys there on the weekends (at least not regularly scheduled ones like they do Mon thru Fri), but I'm hoping to find something other than just a ring game or 2. Or 6.

BTW, I'd rather sit on your right if you were that aggressive. Sure, sitting on your left would allow me to see some cheaper flops, but it's easier to trap the people in between that call your raises when I'm on your right. :D

I think im going to get into some tournaments in the vegas casinos and see how i do there. This will be the true test if i am a good player or not. Ill let you know how those tournaments work out for me.



When are you going to Vegas? That is a pretty big step from the friendly game at home. Maybe you should find some card clubs near your home to play. Definetly good middle ground.

Im going to Vegas at the end of this month. These tournaments are only 40 or 50 dollar buy ins. Not that big of a deal if i get whooped up on real fast. Plus if i go the distance i can pay for my 11 day trip and the 2 Disc Golf tournaments im going to be playing out there.

I consider myself a pretty good card player but i want to see how i fair with the big dogs out in Vegas. Its kinda like playing pro in a tournament when your an am just to see where you stand and maybe find out what you have to work on. Thats why im playing in these tournaments. To see where i stand and see what i need to work on.

My poker story:

We have a weekly game for $5 buy in and $1 goes to the pot that builds up for about 10 to 12 weeks and then we have a $25 + $1 for each miss session. I typically went out first during the weekly games, we would start at 9;00 pm and around 12:30, I would look at my watch and say time to go all in, it worked a few times, but not many. I would have to call it a night because would have to get up at 6:30 for work. So during the big game I get Pocket QQ Spade and club and on the flop comes AQ3 all hearts. The guy next to me ( was a little better playing and more experienced) was betting big and I called, What the hell I have QQQ. next card was Q and the river was something irrelavent, anyways I was betting big and so was he. We layed our card He had the nut Flush With K10 and He said if you have the full house you've won, I told him I didnt have the full house, but I had 4 ladies and plopped down my QQ. He then said I didnt see that comming. I did have 7777 earlier that night too. by the end of the night I ended up taking 1st and winning $150,

I was in Vegas this last weekend and stayed at the Bellagio...got to watch a lot of Hold'Em and wanted to get it, but decided not to. They didn't have any tournies going, but you could put your name on a list and get in for as long as you wanted. They had $2/$4 and maybe like $5/$10 blinds going on the lower floor and then the big dogs were up higher, not sure what they were playing for. I did see Phil Ivey up there throwing some chips around, that was pretty cool. There are a lot of good players waiting for rookies with money in there. I talked to a lot of the Black Jack dealers and they said go to some of the smaller casinos, but I never got a chance. If you play out there Millz, you will need a $200/$300 stack to start most likely. Most of the guys playing had at least $300 and some over $1000 from what I could tell. They will easily bulley you, that is why I decided to watch. I wanted to though, it only takes a few good hands to get some loot! :D

Yeah, and do not play 2/4 limit. From what I hear, the rake in those games is so large that it is near impossible to make any money. Even if you have to play 5/10 short stacked, at least you have a chance at making some money there and worst case, other players get your money instead of the casino.

Just wanted to let everyone know that the first 3 episodes of TILT will be re-broadcasted tomorrow night (Thursday) at 9pm eastern time.

Watch it! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The lowest stakes limit hold'em game Bellagio spreads is 4/8 and 8/16. They have a $200 NL game with 2/4 blinds. The 4/8 game isn't exceptional, the NL game is tough.

Bellagio's tournament's are 1pm Wednsday($500+40) and 5pm Friday($1000+60). I don't have an opinion on those games yet.

You know, when I get my money in with 99 against JQ (pre-flop with 5 people left and blinds getting big), I don't mind so much if they pair up to beat me.

But when he makes an A-high straight by catching a K on the river, it just stings a little more than usual.

I should just close my eyes and just look later to see if I won or lost the hand.

Thank you for indulging this not so bad beat story.

My KK just lost to K10. Ouch! :p

hey mills, i doubt youll be playing against the big dogs if the tourny is only a 50 dollar buy in, you better be ready to fork up a grand to play with the real big dogs in vegas, 50 dollar tourny is like playing pro2, theyre prolly better than you but with a little luck you may cash :) since your so close to D-Town you oughtta check out the metro poker club, they have tournies all the time sattalites for WSOP and WPT events. if you want more info on it lemme know

Oh well, at least my goal of making another final table is still out there.

Last night, $11 Pot Limit Omaha hi/lo tourney on Pokerstars. 275 entrants, pays top 27.

I was in good shape, 12th in chips in the middle of the 2nd hour (there were about 110 guys left) and make a colossally bad call that cost about half my chips. It was probably a semi tilt situation for me, because I laid down a hand that I almost certainly should have called just before that, and had I called it I would have been the chip leader. So, somehow believing that 2 wrongs make a right, I called when I was almost sure to be way behind.

After that, a couple of bad breaks (great draws that didn't pan out, got 1/4d twice in a row) put me down near what you Texas boys call the terlet. I scrounge my way up from 40th out of 40 (with 785 chips and blinds of 400/800) to 20th when we hit the bubble (I had about 8800 by then).

I made the cash, so at least I had something for my efforts, but then made a poor judgement call when trying to move up some more. Here's the scenario, tell me what you would have done:

I am in the BB, with 8800. The SB is a girl (or at least has a girl's handle) that appears to be on total tilt. She has played the last 5 or 6 hands and called with VERY questionable cards. She has about 13k in chips, down from 20k just a few hands ago. It folds around to the cutoff, the table chip leader with 33k. He has been very aggressive and has raised the blinds of almost every short stack when he could. I am the short stack on the table, but not by much, there are 3 or 4 of us under 11k. Blinds are 600/1200 at this point. He raises the pot, making it 2400 for me to call. I plan on folding, although I have 34JQ double suited, I think the big stack will put me all in on just about any flop if I call. But then the chick in the SB calls. Based on her play of late, I think she could very possibly have a total crap hand, so now there's dead money to be considered. I will call 2400 into a pot of 8400, meaning I am getting almost 2:1 if I can grab just half. I call.

Flop comes AK8, with 2 hearts. I have 3rd best low draw, and a jack high flush draw. 2 handed, that actually isn't that bad. SB checks, I check, big stack (as predicted) bets the pot, putting me all in and the SB almost all in if we call. I decide to see what she will do first. When she calls I have a major dilemma.

I have to assume that one of them has me beat at least one way. Either a higher flush draw or maybe trips for high. But does anyone have 23 for a nut low draw? I think if the SB did, she would have bet out and not checked the flop. Based on that, the fact that she is semi-tilty, and the fact that there is a huge amount of chips out there (17k or so) for what is only roughly a 5000 chip call, I call.

Big stack has KK for the flopped set, but no hearts and no low draw, so my flush draw and low draw are good against him. Great, this is what I wanted. Unfortunately, I was right about the SB as well, she didn't have 23. She did, however, have 24, so the only way I can take low from her is if a 2 falls.

I get my flush on the turn and the temporary joy is lost when the board pairs on the river, giving big stack a boat. Hasta la vista, tourney.

Hindsight being 20/20, I should have waited. My desire to go up against the tilty SB chick was probably correct, but I should have considered the big stack's potential more before doing so. Oh well, that's poker. There's always next week. :D

Just wanted to let everyone know that the first 3 episodes of TILT will be re-broadcasted tomorrow night (Thursday) at 9pm eastern time.

Watch it! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



That show wasn't even tolerable after half a bottle of bourbon. I can't believe its from the same people that made Rounders.

half a bottle, your slackin'

That show is a CLASSIC car wreck. So nasty but I can't stop watching it! :p

I'm just waiting for the scene with the two chicks making out and the guy walks in and says "i'm all in", then I'll quit watchin.

After my dry spell, which ended 7 days ago, I made 3x the amount that I lost in it over 3 nights this week.

If you can keep your head on during the crazy swings, you can definetly come out on top.

i just got introduced to a bad run of it last night... i have been making good consistent $$$$ on NL $10 open tables recently, so i ventured back last night. after 2nd hand i was up around $5 and feeling good. i get K6 in the hand and throw down the measly $0.10 to see what good fortunes the flop will bring. something like 458. the raise is small enough for me to chase the straight. 7 comes on the turn, and i am hoping someone raises in front of me. one person raises (higher than i expected), im guessing to push out anyone chasing a straight, but it would seem he should have done that on the flop. there is no flush draw, so i call. river comes down a 9. i have a straight through 9 now and the only other player pushes me all in. i call feeling confident... and he turns an unsuited J10. i was tilted the rest of the night. i should have re-raised on the turn... but what was he doing chasing a 9?

Kid, glad to see your 'variance phase' has passed!

Jefferson, did you really think your str8 was still good after the river card? I won't get into the call with K6 in the first place, but that's not a move that will pay off that often.

Don't think of it as just paying a dime to see a card. It's one big bet, regardless of the monetary value. This doesn't excuse the guy with J10 of taking the hand that far, but 2 wrongs usually won't make a right.

You can play a little looser at the micro limits than normal and still be profitable, but beware the 'oh well, it's just a dime' mentality, it will cost you.

BTW, I got knocked out of a SnG in 4th yesterday when my A9 lost to A2 after the board came 33495. The guy with the A2 then told me I that I sucked. Pretty funny.

i had doubts obviously, but had to call at that point. if a call remains at 0.10, then i will see almost every flop (only on these tables), because on these tables its not about having the best hand preflop. too many callers stay in with crap, and someone (who shouldn't be in the hand) pulls something out almost every hand. the flop is A58, and you have the high pair, guess what, someone probably called 0.10 to flop 2 pair 5's and 8's. i usually win by playing good hands after the flop. its not good poker, but play only good hands and you can make $$$$.


BTW, I got knocked out of a SnG in 4th yesterday when my A9 lost to A2 after the board came 33495. The guy with the A2 then told me I that I sucked. Pretty funny.

i saw an A10 split with an AA last night

Jefferson,

I would suggest taking that $10 and playing in a 6 person tourney.....you will not have that crap happen as often, people are more likely to fold those bad hands and not take you out on *********. The $5 turbo seem to have those idiots who play every hand, but you have to be patient. I think the tourneys are the way to go...just my opinion though...good luck!

Tough losses on those hands Dan...oooof, I have seen a lot of that on Pokerstars lately...kinda fishy if you ask me!

i am aware of the crap, just wasn't expecting how it went down last night. i like the six persons better for playing poker, but the lowest risk with the highest reward for making $$$ has been these $10 opens.

It happens everywhere, Schick, I usually don't get too upset about it. Saying that I suck afterward, however, ..... LOL.

Last weekend the wife and I were playing some NL with friends (just 4 of us) at their house and the same guy hit a 2 outer on the river almost back to back to knock out his wife, and then to stay alive against me when I had him all in. In the first hand his wife had J6 and the flop came something like JJ6, she went all in and he called with QQ - Q falls on the river. Second time I had AK to his KK and I got an A on the flop, I bet, he calls. Turn is a blank, I bet, he calls. K falls on the river, giving me top 2 pr, I bet small hoping for a raise, he pushes in, of course I call. Next time I'll bring the KY, thanks.

So 3 handed we had QQ vs JJ once, and AK vs KK. If that happened online guys would be yelling 'fix' bigtime.

Jealous Dan? :D

I have just been getting KILLED lately on PartyPoker. Do you guys play the same way you guys play home games or do you just wait and wait till you get a monster and only play then??? Do you guys play draws past the turn??? I just cant really get the hang of playing online. Even in the 25 dollar no limit games it seems like guys just stay in with NOTHING and hit on the river. Lost 100 dollar to river beats last night. Any help would be greatly appreciated even if the help is online poker sucks dont play it anymore.

Hey Jim.

Bleaux me. :)

Millz,
Party is an aquarium at almost every level (at least, every level I can afford). There are good things and bad things about that. In the long run, having guys call you down with nothing but a 3 outer will pay you off handsomely. When those guys hit their hands, however, it sucks.

If you have enough of a bankroll to absord those rough beats, (I'd say at least 400BB if you play limit, and 30-40 buyins for NL/PL) you can do well playing tight aggressive poker there. If you'd prefer to play with more skilled opponents, I'd recommend PokerStars, Ultimate Bet, or FullTiltPoker. The Prima sites aren't bad either, prolly somewhere in between.

If you like the 'Party-style' action, then you can also try Pokerroom. A word of caution, tho, I just quit Pokerroom after I cleared my deposit bonus because I was having connection issues and they have a nasty habit of kicking you off the table when you time out. You can't get your seat back when this happens either, which I think is total B.S.

Go to a $50 or $100 NL table. You will find better players there.

I may try that tonight. I have been on a streak of real bad beats. Im down 400 in the last 3 weeks and about 300 of that is from bad beats. The other hundred is drunk stupid party poker at like early hours in the morning.

does anyone have any recomendations or tips on purchasing a chip set!! e-bay seems like a good place to find them reasonably priced.i am more curious about the specifics of the chips etc.

I'd rather be able to put my hands on them than buy a set from Ebay, but what you probably want are casino style, 11.5 gram clay or composite chips. I think some of the actual casino chips are a little lighter, but the 11.5 feel and sound nice (the light ones are easier to shuffle tho).

I'd make sure you get a good case, and if you can afford it, get a larger set (the briefcase sized one), this way you won't have to get a 2nd set down the road if you want to have a regular game at your house. The small, 200 chip sets aren't really enough for that, and there's nothing worse than having 2 different style/size of chips to play with.

Try here:http://poker-wholesale.com

I'd recommend the wood case.

there are a huge variety on ebay at very good prices!! i was definately thinking 500 minimum up to 1000! 11.5 g most likely! is there a down fall to heavier than 11.5 i have seen some metal in lay type that look real nice .i was thinking there may be a tarnishing issue!! you can get a 500 piece 11.5 g ,2 decks,5 dice,and aluminum case delivered for around $50. i saw a set of brass in lay 500+ for about 100 delivered!!

I have 2 500 chip sets of the 11.5 Composites with a metal insert to make them heavy. They sound and feel great. I am in search of a try color set though. My buddy has a really sweet set of try colored chips that are off the hook. I like the aluminum cases alot. Ebay is fine. All the 11.5 gram chips pretty much feel the same so just buy the ones with the design that you like.

Also over the weekend my friends and i built a sweet ***** poker table. We are in the process of wrapping and installing the armrests with white Vinyl. If anyone has any questions or wants to see pictures of our table when its finished i would be happy to post some. We are going to start making and selling them also if anyone is interested in purchacing one.

Pic's would be sweet

I have the black Budweiser poker table ($120), and teh 500 set of Budweiser chips ($120). I also bought eight Budweiser Steins to fill the drink holders as well! Awesome table, and awesome chips. Comes with two packs of Budweiser cards also. I would recommend these - go to Budweiser.com and visit the BudShop.

Ill take some tonight. It doesnt have the arm rails yet but ill take a few tonight. Its real sweet but the felt i bought was kinda crap so i have to find a better quality felt or a good fabric that wont ball up.

Its 90 inches by 48 inches. Can sit 12 people if needed but real comfy with 10 people. I think we will be trying to sell them for around 350 with the handrails and 250 without. Then whatever shipping costs.

what are you making the tables out of? seems kind of steep!!

Thats pretty reasonable as far as poker tables go. The pre made 84 by 40 inch tables in the store go for 500 dollars and the tables we are goig to build are bigger and higher quality then that table. My friends buddy has one that he bought for 500 and my friend says that our table is alot better quality then the 500 dollar table.

We will see how its goes. Maybe we will make a special discount if you have a pdga number ;)

A poker table over $120????? Are you serious??? I dont think so. Unless I win every hand...

A poker table over $120????? Are you serious??? I dont think so. Unless I win every hand...



I hope your kidding. If you want a table with any amount of quality then your going to have to spend between 300 and 500 dollars and really good ones can cost up to 2000 or more. What kind of tables are you buying for 120 bucks???

www.budweiser.com (http://www.budweiser.com) , then go to the BudShop. Thats all you need.

This table is 90 inches by 48 inches. I cant go to that site cuz im at work so how big is it and what does it look like???

Well, i cant tell you right now because im at my girlfriends place right now and my table is at my place and her "AdZapper" thing wont let me into the site, but it is your standard octogon table w/ black felt, drink and chip holders, if that helps.

Does it have legs and a cushion pad under the felt and vinyle padded armrests the entire way around it??? The table im in the process of building does.

Uhhh, no, its a table-top table. Were not playing $1000-$2000 high stakes games here, just casual $10-$20 buy-in games between friends, where none of us has the money to buy a nice table or even mine, as it was a Christmas gift.

You drive a 2004 Navi with Sprewells and a custom paint job but you cant afford a 350 dollar poker table???

Thats doesnt seem right to me. Oh well. We arent playing high stakes either but its great to have a nice table to play on all the time and they are pretty inexspensive going for 350 bucks.

Uhhh, no, its a table-top table. Were not playing $1000-$2000 high stakes games here, just casual $10-$20 buy-in games between friends, where none of us has the money to buy a nice table or even mine, as it was a Christmas gift.



Isn't there some sort of law in Iowa City where you have to spend more on booze for a night than you can for poker?

Actually, maybe that was just our policy...that summer there is pretty hazy. ;)

Yes , its hazy every night here for me. Actually, i spend ridiculous amounts on both...almost every night...

Just got Super System 2. It looks good. I hope to read it soon, if I ever find time. :p

Mills try pokerroom out i think youll like it and hit me up if u decide to try it, im up just as much as your down from there.. theres alot of bad beats in the cheap seats, but at the higher level its better play. And the multi table tournies are the bomb, ive cashed well in a few of em ive taken 2ns for 280, 6th for 80, and today i took 3rd (shoulda won) and made 130, plus the ring games are full of idiots that will dbl you up all day. ive walked in the 1-2 NL games with 25 bucks and walked out with over 200. ive only been on the site for roughly 2 weeks but its been pretty good to me and its alot of fun. I want to check out full tilt poker next, what do you think of that site Dan? you ever play against any of the full tilt team and get the bounty on em?

by the way, those were all 5 dollar entry fee tournies, so not bad payouts for only risking 5 measly bucks

I will play you anytime on Pokerroom.com. Dont be scared. My name is Norhas99, i play in all these tourneys youve talked about and ive never seen your name/handle, PM me.

You also have not entered a 1-2 dollar ring game and walked out with "over 200" and you know it, unless you were on that particular table for over 6 hours. PM me , we will go heads up.

I agree about the bad play at Pokerroom, westa. I didn't like the site because of their disconnect policy. I got disconnected and couldn't get back on and when it finally did reconnect me (within maybe 1 minute), I had lost my seat at the table. Since there was a waiting list, I couldn't get back, which is BS in my book. I cleared my bonus and bailed. Never tried any multis.

Hey flying high, I have seen guys with over $3000 at a $1/2 $200 buyin NL table, so a couple hundred is most definitely possible.

What is the minimum buy in for the $1/2 tables. You should start with $200 minimum!

We have a No Limit game here at our casino that is 1 and 2 dollar blinds and the max buy in is 100 dollars. Does anyone know what kind of tables they have in vegas??? What kind of stakes and if they have no limit tables for like 500 dollar of less buy ins???

If anyone knows and can point me in the right direction that would be great. I have never been to Vegas and i want to play some No Limit Hold Em out there but i dont want to spend all my time looking for the good games in the casinos.

Thanks in advance

Steve, go to www.lasvegasadvisor.com (http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com) for a lot of good info, especially on tournaments and such. They have links to info by casino, maps, you name it. There is a discussion forum with free and pay sections. They also have a good article on internet gambling and what the gov't is trying to do to stop it (since it must be taking away from their lotto windfalls).

We expect a 10 page, double spaced report on everything when you get back!! Good luck!

How's this for info?

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/referenceguide-tournaments.cfm?Filterby=Poker

I will come back with a full detailed report of how it goes out there. Last night i got the sweetest flop i have seen in a while. The best part about it was someone else caught a huge piece of it also. Things is my piece was just a little bit bigger then his.

Here the situation. I went to the bar to just drink and chill. I saw a bunch of guys i dont know playing hold em so i walked over and asked if i could get in on there game. Mind you by this time im already 2 pitchers down and looking pretty drunk even though im not. I was real tired. So they go sure come join our next game.

So they come get me for the next game. 10 dollar tournaments with 5 people. I do my normal sit down and play super aggressive right off the bat and play with [*****] hand because what i want to do in a game with new people is to get them thinking im a sucker right off the bat. So i just raise every pot with just about anything. That way i can complish 2 things at once. I can either steal a bunch of pots which is good and usually i will have a caller which is what i really want because that way ill bet it down to the river and show with nothing. Im laying the ground work for later hands. So i do that and it works PERFECTLY.

I lose 2 pots on crap cards and get them thinking that i suck. Then i tighten up and play my aggressive tight style and win 3 huge pots and become chip leader real fast. Then i get the MONEY hand. Kings in the pocket with 3 people left. Im first to act so i make it 10 dollars to go. I get both guys to call. Flop comes K 6 6 Best possible flop there could be. I have the Nuts at that point so i push all in. Guy on my left folds and the guy on my right looks at me and says. "Your have been going all in with jack ***** all night so im going to call you" Then he flips over the 1 of the other 6s. I go thats good but i flopped Kings full of Sixes.

That was the best hand i have had in a LONG LONG time.

the max buy in for the 1-2 NL games i play is 100, and Flyn 2 of the times that i made 200 after starting with 25 only took me an hour the first time and an hour anda half the second, talk all the trash you want man, your probaly one of the guys that dbles me up in there with sumthn stupid like middle pair. Also, who says weve played in multis together? I play at odd times during the day and night and ive only played in a few multis, me we havent been in the same tourny yet. Ill be playn this saturday for the $6000 free roll that i qualified for. kcRhyno is my handle play with me anytime man, itll be fun

hey Fly, i sat down again at a 1-2 NL game for an just a lil over an hour and bought in for 25 and i now i have my stack at 212 and now i have to go to work, kinda dissapointing but i did it again so it is possible man, its not hard when u catch a nich rush and hit the nuts every time and have people dbling and tripling you up. see you at the table :D

Westa,

Untill yesterday i was on the coldest streak of cards Ive ever had. Bad beats left and right. Down 500 this month. 200 on party poker and 300 at home games and such. Its ok though because last month i was up 500 and i think my cold card streak has come to an end. I dont think i have quite figured out how to play online yet. I dont think i like Party Poker that much. I think im going to try DoylesRoom tonight for a little bit and see how that goes. Did anyone else find that they werent very good when they first started buyin in online???

Kings are not the nuts. Sixes are the nuts.

You are right. 66s are the nuts. I had the second best hand possible at that point. The chances of him having a pocket pair of 6s to my pocket pair of Kings in a 3 handed game are next to nothing.

But you are right. 6s are the nuts in that situation

I was looking through the contents of Super System 2 and this chapter interested me.

Holdem is, in my opinion, the best poker game out there when you factor in the community cards and the complexity of the game. It is also becoming so popular with the TV coverage that if someone says they are playing poker, it is understood that Holdem is the game.

Dan, do you think that learning all games of poker will make one a better all around player or could one just only study and play Holdem and stay successful at it?

Also, I would assume that the Omaha and stud players are generally better than the Holdem players (with all the new players only playing Holdem).

Any thoughts???

I myself am going to concentrate ONLY on No Limit Hold Em as the game i want to get VERY VERY GOOD at. I am also going to try and learn to atleast be decent at Omaha and 7 Card Stud as well. All the other games really dont interest me that much and they seem to be based more on luck then anything else.

So i would say you dont HAVE to learn all the games but to know a few pretty well and 1 REALLY well would be the way to go.

How is Omaha and Stud based on luck?

I am also going to try and learn to atleast be decent at Omaha and 7 Card Stud as well. All the other games really dont interest me that much and they seem to be based more on luck then anything else.




Does that look like it says Omaha and Stud are based on luck???

Its says I want to learn Omaha and Stud and im not interested in learning the others because they are more luck based then skill based.

RAZZ!!!!!
It's on in AZ!!!

Sheesh, would you answer my question? How are they based on luck more than skill?

I actually wasn't getting onto you this time, just trying to understand what you mean.

I was looking through the contents of Super System 2 and this chapter interested me.

Holdem is, in my opinion, the best poker game out there when you factor in the community cards and the complexity of the game. It is also becoming so popular with the TV coverage that if someone says they are playing poker, it is understood that Holdem is the game.

Dan, do you think that learning all games of poker will make one a better all around player or could one just only study and play Holdem and stay successful at it?

Also, I would assume that the Omaha and stud players are generally better than the Holdem players (with all the new players only playing Holdem).

Any thoughts???



I can only speak from personal experience, but I know that as I have learned a new game it has increased my skills at the others that I already played.

While the basics for many games are similar, each has it's own little hidden secrets to master. Plays that I'll make in Holdem won't work if I'm playing Omaha hi/lo. How you play 4th street in stud hi/lo is an animal unto itself. Things like that.

Knowing a little more than just the basics of each game is important for other reasons. If all the holdem tables are full but there's a spot at a juicy pot limit Omaha table it would be nice to know Omaha pretty well, wouldn't it?

I think you could focus on nothing but holdem and be successful, but if knowledge really is power, then the guy that plays them all will have an advantage.

Razz is pretty cool, btw.

And from what I've seen online, the Stud and Omaha players are generally pretty bad, but I think that's because they are normally holdem players that just grabbed a seat 'out of curiosity'.

I was watching Greg 'fossilman' Raymer on PokerStars the other night, he was playing $75/150 Omaha hi/lo. He knows what he's doing, that's for sure. Had a stack of about $7000 when I left. Of course, for all I know he started with $12000, haha.

The Arlington disc golfers have 2 or 3 $10 tournaments a week for Holdem. I am going to suggest that we play Omaha once in a while. I think everyone would like it.

Omaha and 7 Card Stud arent based on luck. Those are the only other games that i think are good true poker games. I think there are WAY to many games that just dont make scence and dont have as much phsycology or skill involved in them as Omaha Texas Hold Em and 7 Card stud.

For home games do you guys prefer tournaments or cash games???

I only like tournaments if there is going to be atleast 18 people and the buy in is going to be 20 dollars or more because its not worth my time to sit in on a 5 person 10 dollar game and play for 5 hours or so only to make 50 bucks on the deal.

All the home games we play our here are cash games. Buy in for anything from 10-50 dollars and you can rebuy as many times as you want but only when you go broke. Also if you are going to cash out you have to cash out the full amount and if you want back in the table you have to buy back in for what you cashed out for. That way all the money that was on the table stays on the table untill we decide the game is over.

Just wanted to know how you guys run your home games and what you like better???

Millz, i want in on one of your cash games next time im down there for a tourny. we usually do tourny style here, which is fun, but id rather play for cash each hand.

I have only played 2 Stud single table tournaments and cashed in both, but it takes FOREVER and it bores me. I will never play it again unless i have to, i and have a strong understanding of the game. I love to play Omaha, almost as much as No Limit Hold-em. I like pot-limit Omaha the best, because you can get a better read off of what the guy has as how he bets to the pot. I am fairly good at H/L Omaha also, but its a little more confusing, and not as fun. All poker games are based on a combination of luck and skill, and no game has more of either.
I have recently switched to PokerStars from Pokerroom. It is a much, much better online site if you are into online games. Much better players also, and much more choices of games, tourneys, freerolls, and sit-n-go's to play. I would highly recommend this site to everybody.

Tournament style sucks for home games because if you get one bad beat your out for the entire night. Its just a stupid way to play home games and its not a great way to make money unless the tournament have like 20 people and over a 20 dollar buy in. 10 person tournaments just arent worth it.

yeah i agree Millz, the only good thing we do when we have tournis is when we have mini-sattalites for tournies at Soaring Eagle. However we do have a bar that does tournies every sun and mon for 10 bucks a game and usually over 20 people show up