I'm a newer player in Frisbee golf. I have played off and on for about 3 years. I throw sidearmed because i cannot get the power with the backhand throw. However, I have seeen some insanely long drives with the backhand and not many with the sidearm. If anyone has any tips on getting the power (and accuracy with it would be nice) if you would please reply I would really appreciate the tips. Thanks.

Throw the right disc and get your entire body involved. Shoulders, hips and legs. Throw a lot. Practice keeping it low. Did I mention throwing a lot? I throw farther now than I did when I was younger (and without pain) for two reasons. Disc technology and better technique.

Check out these articles:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/articles.shtml

Specifically the "Driving Form and Technique,"Distance Secrets" and "Grip It to Rip It: The Ins and Outs of Grip" articles for learning the correct technique. Those should keep you going for a few months at least.

Ditto on the discgolfreview website. Read those articles, go throw, re-read the articles and throw some more. I recently switched to backhand as well and have probably doubled my distance this summer with that info. Ken Climo's website has some good stuff too, and check out disclife.com for articles on terminology if you're not familiar.

You could buy Scott Stokely's book. I believe he holds the record for distance with a sidearm throw. My son throws sidearm over 300', and that was when he was 12.

meet chrishysell

Stokely set the world's sidearm record in 2001 with a Discraft XS.
521 feet!
I'm not sure if this record still stands as I believe I read somewhere that somebody threw sidearm over 600 feet(?).

In any case, it shows what's possible.
:)

...and that's just a scant 299' feet behind the backhand record of 820' = 250m.
Learn both...as these skills should help lower your score!

Hey Hysell,
Have you tried the Flick yet for forehand/sidearm/ FLICK?????
WOW!!!! Super fast and super overstable!!!!! My Z Xtreme is now my X girlfriend that I only visit once in a while ;)!!!!!!!
I still want Moss you dog!!!
TG

I haven't received my Flick yet. I don't throw overstable discs. I prefer to rely on technique which results in better accuracy.

Still hung up on Moss? I need a running back but I'm not begging.

When you see people throw flicks they throw very overstable discs. When you see people throw for distance they throw distance discs like orcs, valks, flashes, etc. They dont throw overstable discs. Try throwing an Orc or flash forehand for distance. If you cant control it, try a Tsunami they seem to be overstable and very long.

When you see people throw flicks they throw very overstable discs. When you see people throw for distance they throw distance discs like orcs, valks, flashes, etc. They dont throw overstable discs. Try throwing an Orc or flash forehand for distance. If you cant control it, try a Tsunami they seem to be overstable and very long.



Very interesting Willie. I assume you mean when "you" see people. Most of the players from my area don't use overstable discs for sidearms. They have listened to me and learned to throw properly with middle-stability rated discs. Typically discs like z-wildcats and z-xs's. Of the forehand throwers around here, the longer throwers use ce valks and z-xpresses. Overstable discs aren't always the answer. Learn both.

Chris and I have disagreed on this for a couple of years now. I like overstable discs because they are more predictable. They always go right. Windy they finish right. Calm they finish right. Throw them anhyzer and they finish straight. I have discs that I throw forehand neg shots with and they are usefull. But my bread and butter driver is a flat 171G Monster that I can throw full out every time with predictable results. And to me predictability means confidence. I used to throw XSs and such but my game jumped up in quality when I learned how to handle FireBird Xs and Monsters.

One of the best sidearm throwers I've seen at my local swears by the Teebird TLs. I asked him if it was over or understable. He said "neither, I can curve it either way."
The angle of release (plus power, of course) seems to have more to do with the flight than the disc used.
Stokely leans over to his right when he throws and achieves 400 foot gentle hyzers that appear effortless.

Pardon Me. I wish I could throw a understable disc forehand while still in control. For all you "power" forehander's out there, the Flick is a great disc in my opinion.
TG

On a similar note, the Illusion is also very VERY fast and a great FH disc for those who throw more overstable discs.
(IE Timmy_Gill's philosophy)

I can only throw sidearm about 220 feet at the moment, so maybe I'm missing something here, but I can throw most discs hyzer or anhyzer for nearly the whole flight just by changing the angle of the throw. The overstable discs just flex back to hyzer more sharply than the understable discs, which don't flex back at all if I throw them that way.

If you're talking about a monster power forehand that turns over too much then:
A: You're not getting enough spin on it or,
B: You need more of a hyzer release, which is achieved by leaning over to your right (if you throw righty).
C. Yeah, go ahead and try a Flick or other very overstable disc.

P.S.
I think some people in here may be confused by the word 'flick.' It's the name of a disc, but is also what some discers call a sidearm throw...'a flick.'
P.P.S.
Somebody should come out with a disc called a 'Throw.'
Then we could ask 'How do you throw your throw?'
:p :D

i have video and stills of TG's sidearm form (which is quite good imo) on my website:
http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/analysis/timmygill2.shtml

Blake_T:

As usual, GREAT info at your site!
I have the Stokely videos and his throw (sidarm) is similar to the film (geez, I almost said flick!) you have posted.
The pictures perfectly illustrate what I was saying about 'leaning over' to throw the big sidearms.

My brain is damaged such that my sidearm is lefty and my backhand is righty so I don't use the sidearm so much (pobly why it won't clear 220 feet) as it is the same flight pattern(s) as RHBH. :confused:

P.S.
If TG were throwing a Flick on your website you could tell people to: 'Check out the Flick flick flick on my webpage!'
:D:D:D:p

Yeah, go ahead and try a Flick or other very overstable disc.



Two main factors influence my choice of forehand drivers. First, I have plenty of power. I'm much more likely to overthrow than to underthrow. Second, an anhyzer release comes much more naturally than a hyzer release.

So, I can use a less stable disc, back off on the power, and try to release with hyzer . . . or I can do what feels best: Crank it, flat to slightly anhyzer. This requires an overstable disc.

On flat ground, a Monster is about as understable as I like to go. I can handle a Talon, but I'll make more mistakes. The Speed Demon and Z Xtreme are also great for shots where I don't need quite the distance, but want to go very hard right or extremely low.

My forehand works out very well for me. If you want to throw hard, overstable is the way to go. If, on the other hand, you've got fantastic touch, you might be better off using the Hysell style. Or make your own.

I, for one, can't wait to add another fast, overstable disc to my arsenal. Bring on the Flick!

I'm surprised other people throw distance discs sidearm. Around here (new england) the most understable thing I have seen thrown is a banshee.

Ok, I want to take back all the mean, nasty things I've said in the past about the Champion Beast. I threw it for the first time in ages yesterday on a wide open course, and it flew farther, more consistently, than either the Flash or the Crush.

I also figured out how to reliably get more distance out of those discs than my standards like the Monster. The trick is to throw high with a bit of hyzer, a ton of speed, and as much snap as you possibly can. Duh. You knew that already, but I'm afraid I can't be much more specific after only one day.

All I can say for now is to grab a stack of discs and go practice until you get it. Aim about 20 feet up and 40 feet to the right of your target. If it works properly, the disc will climb for maybe half a second towards where you were aiming, then abruptly snap over and glide down and left until it either hits the ground or fades. Oh yeah, and throw HARD.

There's a ratio between air speed and spin. Someday someone will figure out how to express this equation in words.
The reality is, when you throw a disc flat with a lot of speed, but not much spin, it will turn over (with any throw). For a righthand sidearm shot this means the disc will turn left or 'dive' into the ground. This seems to be more of a problem with sidearm shots than with backhand shots, as backhand shots seem more condusive to the application of spin (snap).
If you can really 'snap' it sidearm, it will hold a level flight plane for awhile before falling back to the right.

Yesterday I decided to begin learning a sidearm throw...after 7 years and 3 months of 99.9% backhand DG'ing. (I'm nursing a sore right forearm that has taken me out of commission for nearly 6 weeks now.) I warmed up with putters and midranges, then moved up to drivers. Things went pretty well seeing as how I retired my over/side-arm with softball when I was 29...am currently 41. I don't believe I've ever thrown more than 8 or 10 sidearms in one day.
I was practicing with a Monster, 11x KC T'Bird, X-Talon, Champ Beast. Once I got my release smoothed out I was consistently throwing 270-290' with pretty good accuracy...and even had one go 320'!

The thing I noticed that really astounded me was the flight-path my throws would take...they were flexing out from a mild hyzer release angle and really gliding well with the predictable right fade at the end.

My backhand throws 'had' evolved into a very flat release throw with occasional anhyzer release. Anyways, the sidearm flight-paths looked like a good lefty BH flight-path right off the bat. I don't think I'm capable of adding any significant spin at this time...so disc speed must be the culprit...?

My question is, 'What is up with this?' I had a pretty good arm as a kid and was an outfielder in softball...and I read here how some folks have more potential with sidearm than backhand...?

Are there others out there learning a sidearm (second) and having similar results?

I hope this is just the tip of the iceberg...because after 7+ years of refining my backhand I've only reached 380' on flat ground a few times...and it "wasn't" on my first day of practicing.
Comments?

My question is, 'What is up with this?' I had a pretty good arm as a kid and was an outfielder in softball...and I read here how some folks have more potential with sidearm than backhand...?




backhand always has more potential distance than sidearm. what people are actually able to execute is a different story. the sidearm is definitely a good shot to have in your bag.

from what i can tell by your description of the flight path, it seems you are not accustomed to this type of flight backhand?

I don't think I'm capable of adding any significant spin at this time...so disc speed must be the culprit...?



Disc speed is a huge factor in a power forehand. Rather than compensate for this, I try to use it to my advantage. With the proper discs, it's easy to throw, and control, very dramatic S-curves.

Of course, if you want to do anything but throw S-curves with your Z Xtreme, you'll need to add snap. I've found the best way to do this is to keep your wrist loose. Also, try to make your throwing motion as compact as possible, really unloading everything into it at once.

Just like backhand, you'll find a point at which you can rip pretty much any disc as hard as you want and not flip it. Well, not any disc, but you know what I mean.

One warning: When you're throwing hard, be sure to follow through. Generally, I think the forehand is a safe throw, but it's easy to stop your arm short when you're trying to snap it hard. I haven't actually hurt my elbow this way, but I've had some funky pops come out of it. Following through properly seems to reduce or eliminate this problem.

Hope this helps. If you have any specific questions, I'll do my best to answer them. Good luck!

circle_2
From your description, it sounds as though you are already getting pretty good spin on the disc :).
If you overpower forehand shots (too much airspeed vs. spin),
they will just turnover and dive left.

Hey Circ-2,

I started working on my forehand about 6 months ago. I throw between 240 and 320. I have had arm pain only when I overwork the shot. I have even gotten away from using a full throwing motion. That is where I get most of my problems. Instead, I hold the disc in front of me and simply flick it hard. It is incredible to me how much distance I can get with so little effort as compared to a backhand. I do not use the forehand as a primary drive since the extra effort required to add more distance is too hard on my arm (tendonitis in my shoulder). On the other hand (pun intended), it gets me out of a lot of tight spots and it is great for those 240 to 280 foot anny holes.

My experience was that if I worked the disc flat (I use Beasts and Orcs) and focused on what I thought would be a 200 ft throw (i.e. I put a little less snap on the disc) I got a nice flat run that only fell out (to the right, I'm right handed) over the last 30 feet of the throw. This is good for up to 250 ft. When I go for the 300 foot throws then I see what you see, my disc tends to flex left and fall out to the right. I do find that if I focus on a lower throw with more snap I get a longer run that is truer and more accurate. Go to Blake T's discgolf resources site. He has several vids of guys throwing forehand. They use a full windup but there is at least one that throws flat and low and he gets a straight run that is beautiful.

[Just a thought on] On the otherhand, I can throw a 420 ft roller and am able to hit 360 regularly with my BH. When I limited out at 320 on my BH I went back to Dave Dunipace's stuff and Blake T's stuff and reread it all. I added a few perks to my throw and changed my grip and shazam, I hit a 405 ft drive (slight down hill probably 5 ft over the distance). I am not able to get over 380 other than on occassion, but I can. Personnally, I think a lot of players limiting out in the 320 to 350 range may be limited by their grip. Look at Blake's new grip article. It is very sweet. On the long drives I'm now hitting I can take a lot off and still pop it 360 feet primarily because a flatter better grip puts the disc on the right flight path and gives it so much more torque. BTW - I'm 44. [just a thought off/]

Thanks for the feedback!
Blake, can you recommend any of your archived forehand throwers who you feel have excellent technique? As far as my backhand throws, I never felt comfortable/enough-power throwing from a moderate (or more) hyzer angle. I don't like the risk of turning a disc over 'too much' in order to get good distance...so I gravitated to the lighter 11x T'Birds that love to fly low and flat with little high speed turn and not much low speed fade.

Boru, Blarg, and Lyle: today, 2 days later, I feel like I've been hit by a truck! I'm sore from my midback up into my neck...but it's a good 'sore' feeling! I earned it!! I'll need to learn better follow-thru/technique and better footwork. Due to my backhand/forearm injury I believe that time will be needed to gradually break-in my forehand/sidearm. The injured backhand muscles are now being asked to decelerate my flicks...and they're sore'r as well. TIME heals all wounds, dammit!

One other thing,

You can help with the soreness by stretching. I stretch every day and do Yoga three times a week. I highly recommend it! Even in the case where you are injured, stretching does wonders in healing.

Very good advice, no doubt! I used to do Iyengar yoga prior to taking up DG...and am now quite intrigued by the Bikram method...the one done in 100+ degree environment. I love to sweat!

I usually get sore after throwing a lot of forehand. Similar to pitching a game of baseball, I guess. I don't really know the physiology of it, but I figure it has to do with the smaller muscles used compared to the backhand throw.

Despite that, I have a lot more endurance throwing forehand. I think this is because the backhand form is more complex. With the right discs and a good understanding of the shot, you can keep throwing good forehand drives until your arm falls off. Once my core muscles get tired, my backhand is finished.

I don't know if I have good form, but I can get 400+ feet of useable distance out of my forehand on a good day. And my longest shots always ground out while they're still turning, so I think I can get more if I add some height. I'm planning to take up Blake's challenge of putting together some instructional material on the forehand. I've been too busy lately, but hopefully soon . . .

Stretching before throwing is vital! If I don't do it I always suffer.
I also would recommend checking out Scott Stokely's videos.
He throws over 400 feet forehand and makes it look easy, and he's a pretty good teacher.
I think he's thrown 600 feet forehand.

The World Flying Disc Federation [WFDF] keeps track of world records; I can't find mention of sidearm at their site: WFDF Distance Records (http://www.wfdf.org/index.php?page=records/index.htm) ...but I have 586 feet in my headbone. Don't quote me!

I find 75% to be a roughly accurate expectation of sidearm-to-backhand distance, max-wise. Personnaly. At present, I believe it's even a smaller percentage, Big-Boy-wise.

Blarg, for your 55+ agegroup, the male backhand record is 168 meters, by John Kirkland. Converted into feet, that comes out to...far! :D

Wow are there any good instructional articles out there on forehand distance? I can throw them about 250 on a good day. I may have to switch in the near future because of a right knee injury. Either that or go lefty. My right knee is stressed because it was seriously broken and redesigned about 10 years ago. It's strong but the twisting involved in the backhand throw puts too much stress on it!

No, I don't think there's anything about forehand that gets beyond the basics. I'd like to put something together, but I haven't had time recently.

For now, here (http://www.prosecreations.com/FlyinHawaiian/fhpics.html) are a couple pictures of me driving at a tournament last month. You've got a before, a during, and an after (not from the same throw). If nothing else, they show that a power forehand is definitely not a "flick".

slo:

for your 55+ agegroup, the male backhand record is 168 meters, by John Kirkland. Converted into feet, that comes out to...far!



Well, for me, that comes out to...depressing! :(
But I've only been playing for a year and I've hit 100 meters, so who knows?
Another fifteen years or so and I may give Kirkland a run for his money! :D

DiscGraham:
Check out Scott Stokely's video. He threw 521 feet sidearm in 2001 for a world's record.
He can pretty much throw 400 feet sidearm at will.
He's also a pretty good teacher.
Wish he were posting in here. :p

From what I've seen, the really long sidearm throwers do the following:

Face the target.
Hold the disc deeply ensconced in the webbing between your thumb and forefinger.
Make sure the pad of the finger that is touching the rim is on the rim, as opposed to on the flight plate.
**** the hell out of your wrist.
Take a step or two forward (you don't need an X-step for sidearm) while drawing the disc back as far as you can while still leading with your elbow (brings in the shoulder muscles and torso).
Lead with your chest and elbow as much as possible.
Flick the disc forward while unloading your cocked wrist and follow through across your chest.
Release the disc flat or with a bit of hyzer once you have learned to throw with some power (200-250 feet or more).
To get big distance, do all of the above while leaning to the right if you're right-handed.

From what I've seen, the really long sidearm throwers do the following:



Good observations, Blarg. My own experience is a little different. The truth is probably somewhere in between.


Face the target.



If you have a baseball background, it's a lot easier to start with your non-throwing shoulder towards the target - like pitching from the stretch.


Hold the disc deeply ensconced in the webbing between your thumb and forefinger.



Yes, otherwise it's very difficult to keep the proper nose orientation.


Make sure the pad of the finger that is touching the rim is on the rim, as opposed to on the flight plate.



Everyone says this, but it's not necessary. My throw improved immensely when I stopped concentrating on this and focused on using my thumb to press the rim into the first knuckle of my ring finger. The reason? I am now able to keep the disc from wobbling around in my hand during the release, and have all but eliminated flutter and nose-up throws.


**** the hell out of your wrist.



Yes, but only to a point. My wrist only bends back about 90 degrees, and this seems to be plenty.


Take a step or two forward (you don't need an X-step for sidearm) while drawing the disc back as far as you can while still leading with your elbow (brings in the shoulder muscles and torso).
Lead with your chest and elbow as much as possible.



I've tried this, and I think it puts a lot of stress on your elbow. Instead, I try to focus on the hit, and getting maximum power from a compact motion. You're right though, you don't need any kind of run up. Even if you do an X-step, one or two small steps is plenty.


Flick the disc forward while unloading your cocked wrist and follow through across your chest.



Better yet, plant your left foot (for righties) and follow through by spinning on it - just like backhand. This isn't easy, but when I've done it, I've been rewarded with a powerful, painless throw.


Release the disc flat or with a bit of hyzer once you have learned to throw with some power (200-250 feet or more).



I'd say this depends on what disc you use.


To get big distance, do all of the above while leaning to the right if you're right-handed.



Yes, otherwise it's very difficult to release with hyzer and still get power. But when you lean over, make sure your throw goes out, not just up.

Started throwing a forehand last year, and this year have been able to downground the stability rating and take advantage of more glide.

...What?...

Last year I always threw the Xtra and Reaper, now I've got enough control to flick a Wildcat and get better glide/distance before it fades. It took a long time to realize that throwing at 80% power with a flick can get you more distance.

Throwing a forehand spike hyzer is a lot of fun, and you can amaze your friends with that shot.

Started throwing a forehand last year, and this year have been able to downground the stability rating and take advantage of more glide.

...What?...

Last year I always threw the Xtra and Reaper, now I've got enough control to flick a Wildcat and get better glide/distance before it fades. It took a long time to realize that throwing at 80% power with a flick can get you more distance.

Throwing a forehand spike hyzer is a lot of fun, and you can amaze your friends with that shot.



Forehand is really sensitive to technique. I usually FH Speed Demons and Spirits, virtually guaranteering that end right, but lately I've been able to acuratly FH my Sabres and my Wizards.

Throwing a forehand spike hyzer is a lot of fun, and you can amaze your friends with that shot.



If you throw something like a Monster very high and very hard, with a lot of snap, it'll climb, then turn over and glide for a bit before falling back to the right. Maybe that's still a spike hyzer . . . I dunno, but it sure does confound your enemies.

boru:


Everyone says this, but it's not necessary. My throw improved immensely when I stopped concentrating on this and focused on using my thumb to press the rim into the first knuckle of my ring finger. The reason? I am now able to keep the disc from wobbling around in my hand during the release, and have all but eliminated flutter and nose-up throws.




That part about the 'ring finger' is fairly unique, as far as what I've seen. With most sidearm throwers, the ring finger is barely touching the disc, if at all. Stokely advises tucking it in out of the way to reduce friction on the disc. Still, I can see how that might add stability. Everybody has to find what works for them. I pinch the disc against the first joint and pad of my middle finger.
I should mention that I'm not great at sidearm. I've just done virtually nothing this year except study and practice disc golf techniques from every source there is. I can throw sidearm about 220 feet. I throw RHBH and LHFH, so I rarely use the sidearm as it provides identical flight patterns to my backhand. Comes in handy for shorter annie shots and pronounced medium helixes.

I'll have to try that ring finger thing. :D

Throwing a forehand spike hyzer is a lot of fun, and you can amaze your friends with that shot.



If you throw something like a Monster very high and very hard, with a lot of snap, it'll climb, then turn over and glide for a bit before falling back to the right. Maybe that's still a spike hyzer . . . I dunno, but it sure does confound your enemies.



I think he literally means throwing a spike hyzer with the disc starting vertically. Same as a spike hyzer BH, just FH.

Sounds like a tomahawk throw. Yes? :p

I think he literally means throwing a spike hyzer with the disc starting vertically. Same as a spike hyzer BH, just FH.



Yeah, you start the disc with a lot of hyzer, but if you throw it hard enough, it turns for a bit after it reaches its peak, then falls very hard right. Pretty much a spike hyzer with some glide in the middle.

I'm familiar with the standard spike hyzer shot, and use it sometimes. I just find the middle turn part useful for getting over/past stuff.

I'll have to try that ring finger thing. :D



I have small, bony hands, so I may just need to do it to compensate for that. In any case, it certainly doesn't hurt my distance. Let me know if it works for you.

**** the hell out of your wrist.



Yes, but only to a point. My wrist only bends back about 90 degrees, and this seems to be plenty.




Woah, you **** your wrist back 90 degrees? (as oppossed to cocking it to the side, there's no way anyones wrist goes 90 degrees to the side, right??) When I throw sidearm i keep my wrist and hand fairly level with my forearm, am I doing something totally wrong?

:confused:

Well, to sorta answer both of you, I meant **** your wrist as much as you can. Some throwers (Stokely, Stork) **** their wrist back 90 degrees to get a really big power flick. This takes considerable skill to execute as you must reallign your hand to the proper angle at release. To throw flat, for example the wrist must be somewhat hyper-supinated so your palm is facing upwards.
Soooooo...man, I do go on...If you throw hyper-supinated just **** your wrist as much to the left as you can.

That's what I meant. **** the heck out of it. :p :D

Soooooo...man, I do go on...If you throw hyper-supinated just **** your wrist as much to the left as you can.

That's what I meant. **** the heck out of it. :p :D



When did this forum get perverted? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Sounds like a tomahawk throw. Yes? :p



Disc vertical with your grip "under" so your like undercutting...with your arm extend down as opposed to overhand. If that makes any sense!

Aha! I begin to see the light. Sorta underhand forehand.
Guys at my local call it 'knife hyzer,' but I think it's the same throw.

Aha! I begin to see the light. Sorta underhand forehand.
Guys at my local call it 'knife hyzer,' but I think it's the same throw.



Yep!

From what I've seen, the really long sidearm throwers do the following:

Face the target.
Hold the disc deeply ensconced in the webbing between your thumb and forefinger.
Make sure the pad of the finger that is touching the rim is on the rim, as opposed to on the flight plate.
**** the hell out of your wrist.
Take a step or two forward (you don't need an X-step for sidearm) while drawing the disc back as far as you can while still leading with your elbow (brings in the shoulder muscles and torso).
Lead with your chest and elbow as much as possible.
Flick the disc forward while unloading your cocked wrist and follow through across your chest.
Release the disc flat or with a bit of hyzer once you have learned to throw with some power (200-250 feet or more).
To get big distance, do all of the above while leaning to the right if you're right-handed.


OK, so I'm quoting somebody who's only throwing 40% as far as Stokley...but it's viable to me; I uncorked my longest sidearm ever yesterday; 342 1/2 feet, give or take a yard. Things which helped:
*I 'toned down' the stability [used 'less' disc]; rather than a Firebird I used a Beast; this allowed for a more hyzer attitude at release.
*I used a bit of backswing, rather than just holding it out to the side and flicking at the last minute. What did this do? More speed might be a factor, but what I think what's happening is: This aids in 'cocking' the wrist like a spring...Dave Dunipace is always advising to use the wrist like a spring, not a hinge...I can feel the spring being "compressed" when I do this.
*LEAN! If I don't, I'm getting enough power [remember this is relative!] to turn the thing over. And leaning is a lot easier than the way I first was told to deliver the thing, almost straight-up-and-down [the most extreme hyzer position possible]. I got away from that because it was hard for me to execute.
*Throw hard! This might be anathema for a backhand, but with the lean, it works.
...since I'm a lefty, I use the sidearm on roughly 14 drives per round. Even at a 'lefty-biased' course like Oak Grove, I'll use it a lot, since I can face the target, and not have to do a turnaround on lumpy, slippery tees.

Slo:
Hey! I resent that 40% thing! I can throw 42% as far as Stokely!
;)

Sorry friend; it wasn't my intention to point out, er, insinuate you have a weenie arm! :o

...so, let me go on record here as saying: Scott Stokley can NOT out-sidearm Blarg by an entire football field, including both endzones...no, he'd come up 12 feet short of that! :D

Just threw some sidearms today. I never use it for distance since I throw RHBH and LHFH which makes the throw pretty much useless :eek:.
Only got about 39% Stokelys. :(
If I were only a foot taller and 20 years younger...

I throw RHBH and LHFH which makes the throw pretty much useless

Well, maybe for STRICTLY, wide-open distance...but on shorter, technical holes [any of those @ OG?], you're FACING the target with a sidearm, and where accuracy counts, it counts to be accurate [can you say, 'tautology'?...sure you can...:D].

Also, in my instance, I have some difficulty delivering the disc backhanded any way but plain ol' FLAT, due to weak grippage. That was even BEFORE I smashed my hand up! I'm noticably better in the 'angle' department with the sidearm grip.

Sidearm is something I've worked at...well, relative for my warm-up/practice-avoiding self. I'm p.d. comfortable with it; enough to where I can throw a turnover shot with a hyser release. "S" shot? Simple, with an overstable disc, and an anhyser release...I can't say the same for the mirror-image [reverse-S], B/H/anhyser.

KEEP IT UP! Not just Blarg, but "y'all". :cool:

slo:

You make a good point. I do use the lefty sidearm a few times a round for approach shots. Since I can't throw that way much farther than 200 feet, I don't drive with it.
I can get very cool-looking helixes at will with that throw too.
It does come in very handy at O.G. with all the giant bushes and trees that seem to end up right in my face. :D

Hey, I find those too; we must have similar faces!

...they say O.G. is a Lefty paradise; Sweeney and I say it's a Righty-sidearm paradise! :D

slo:
Agreed.
At least 10 holes are great for left to right (annie for rhbh) shots.
The course must have been designed by a lefty backhander or a righty forehander.
I can't, at the moment, do either. :confused:

I don't know if I have good form, but I can get 400+ feet of useable distance out of my forehand on a good day. And my longest shots always ground out while they're still turning, so I think I can get more if I add some height. I'm planning to take up Blake's challenge of putting together some instructional material on the forehand. I've been too busy lately, but hopefully soon . . .



So.. have you gotten around tp puting together that instructional material yet? :DA good sidearm technique section is about all that's really missing from Blake's site.

It would be a most usefull addition.

So.. have you gotten around tp puting together that instructional material yet? :DA good sidearm technique section is about all that's really missing from Blake's site.



A could months ago I said I was too busy at the moment � well, it turns out I didn't even know the meaning of busy back then. So unfortunately, I haven't done anything yet.

I have, however, been refining and observing my own technique. Here's my latest insight: On my longest throws, I release with my shoulders square to the target and my hand almost out in front of my body. There's some combination of weight shift and staying loose that allows me to pull through REALLY hard - like throwing a baseball. If I don't get the windup right though, throwing too hard is a recipe for disaster. Hopefully I'll be able to get someone to shoot video of me soon.

On my longest throws, I release with my shoulders square to the target and my hand almost out in front of my body. There's some combination of weight shift and staying loose that allows me to pull through REALLY hard - like throwing a baseball. If I don't get the windup right though, throwing too hard is a recipe for disaster. Hopefully I'll be able to get someone to shoot video of me soon.



sorry your so busy, and thanks for responding. i look forward to your video/analysis in the future. in the meantime, i think i will just order Stokeley's videos, and work from there.

i'm not that great of a sidearm thrower, but fwiw, i notice that my best throws also occur with my shoulders square to the target, though i'm not sure how far in front of my body my hand is. my main problem is getting the wind up to go smoothly; getting my shoulders to lead my elbow, to lead my wrist, and then timing the snap, and "flick" just right. not even to mention angle of release!

My best sidearm throws happen when I make sure that I get my hips rotated through the shot. ie: not blocking it out.

how deep do you really need to hold the disc in the crook between your thumb and index finger? it seems like the farther you get it in there, and thus the farther you get your middle finger up the rim, the more spin you can potentially impart on the disc at release. but that may be an oversimplification, and it kind of hurts when i really push it up there.

my main problem is getting the wind up to go smoothly; getting my shoulders to lead my elbow, to lead my wrist, and then timing the snap, and "flick" just right. not even to mention angle of release!



To keep your angle of release consistent:

Use a two finger "pistol" grip, with your ring and pinkie fingers curled up. Make sure the disc is seated all the way back in your hand, so the rim is pushing into the webbing between your thumb and forefinger. Push down with your thumb to press the rim against the middle knuckle of your ring finger. This serves as a base to keep the disc flat in your hand.

The progression of your throw should go hips --> shoulders --> arm --> hand. So if you're a righty, step with your left foot to turn your hips forward, keeping everything else loose. Your shoulders will follow by themselves, and then you come to the pull, which works a lot like backhand. For a smoother shot with a less overstable disc, you can just sort of let it happen. When you're trying for max distance, you'll really need to crank it with your arm.

Whatever you do, don't lock your wrist!

Use a two finger "pistol" grip, with your ring and pinkie fingers curled up. ... Push down with your thumb to press the rim against the middle knuckle of your ring finger.




Just to clarify; do you actually have your ring finger middle knuckle beneath the rim of the disc? or is it on the side of the rim? i see more people doing the latter, but i read this post as advicating the former, and it felt very comfortable on a wide rimmed disc, and made my grip more solid.

on a side note, since we were talking about getting a smooth release, i wanted to share something i stumbled upon. i was on a hike the other day, absent-mindedly flinging a stick around, and i started trying to get it to stay in the air longer by spinning it as much as possible. Then I realized that this was the same principle, and almost the exact same motion, used to throw a smooth sidearm. Strange how it came so natural when playing with a stick, but I had to completely relearn it for throwing a disc. With a stick, you can gauge the spin not only by time aloft, but when it is spinning really fast it creates the optical illusion of a cross, or a plus sign (+) in the air.

Just to clarify; do you actually have your ring finger middle knuckle beneath the rim of the disc? or is it on the side of the rim?



I keep my ring finger curled up with the knuckle supporting what I would consider to be the underside of the rim. On a wide-rimmed disc, I can't figure out another possible place that finger would go. To clarify, I took a couple pictures:

http://www.prosecreations.com/HDGA/fhgrip1.jpg

The reddish areas indicate where I apply pressure.

http://www.prosecreations.com/HDGA/fhgrip2.jpg

So there actually is a use for cell phone cameras.


i was on a hike the other day, absent-mindedly flinging a stick around, and i started trying to get it to stay in the air longer by spinning it as much as possible. Then I realized that this was the same principle, and almost the exact same motion, used to throw a smooth sidearm.



Yeah, seems like a good whipping motion would work for both of them.

Keep you elbow close to your hip, and don't raise the disc higher than your mid-torso on the backswing. Keep the disc flat like you are serving hors d'oeuvres...And go to a field to practice, not the course.