I just started playing disc golf, and I really enjoy it, however, I have an irritated disc in my lower back, and after about 7-8 holes I have to stop. I have tried both backhand and sidearm, and neither seem to be better for me. The most problematic part of the game is the initial drive; I simply can't twist my torso enough to generate sufficient power for a nice drive. I'm wondering if there are other people who play disc golf in spite of their back problems, and if there are techniques I can employ--altering my mechanics, different throwing styles--to make disc golf more playable for me. Can the tomahawk be used for driving/long approach? I am not looking to be an expert at the game, in fact, my friends generously give me at least one extra shot for par, I just want to be able to play longer.

thanks,
Mad Cow

Sorry about your back.
Yes, a tomahawk can be used for a drive and I've seen it done
by somebody or other during almost every round I've played.
I've also seen guys throw a mile with almost no torso rotation.
They are usually heavy guys with big fat arms and they just stand there and snap the crap out of the disc with a very short reach back.
There is another throw I've seen (very rare) where the thrower faces the target with the disc held pointing downwards alongside the thigh. I used to call it the 'suitcase throw,' because the disc is held just as you would hold a suitcase.
Take a step or two forward, bring the disc up while turning it more or less to a level plane and then flicking it out in front of you. No spinal rotation required.
It's a common throw for Ultimate or playing catch, but it's rare in disc golf. The guy I played with who used it (only seen one person do this so far) could throw at least 400' with this method and it looked effortless. Older guy (45?) who'd been playing for many years.
Overall, I'd say work on 'snap' without rotating your back if you can. :)

Well, I don't know what your doctor says on how severe your back issues are. If it hurts, it's probably not good for your back. I know myself, about 10 years ago, I was diagnosed with 2 ruptured discs in my lower back. Severe pain was the norm for me. Through rehibilitation, I was able to get it reasonable, but, never 100%. I've noticed for me. The thing that helps the most is a lot of sit-ups. I do them every night. The stronger stomach muscles really help out the weak lower back. I almost always have some kind of back pain. I have noticed though, in the last year, a lot less pain. Probably the best my back has felt in 8 years. I attribute this to the sit-ups, and playing disc golf at least 5 times a week. I think the constant workout actually helps streangthen my back. I've kind of resigned myself to the fact I probably will never throw 400, probably not even 350 because I just don't have the mobility. I try to work accuracy more than power. Also, try working a good cross-over/scissor technique with a backhand throw. The nice fluid motion is actually easier on my back than any other form. Make sure you have a nice easy follow through. The less jerky, the easier it is on your back. And still allows for power. The worst throw for me is a side-arm shot. I think it's harder for me to follow through in a nice easy motion. Every once in a while I'll throw side-arm, and go "Ouch that wasn't good." So, if you are just looking to have fun, as I do, stick with it, take it easy, accuracy before power, and try a good sit-up routine.

I hope this helps.

I also have back problems. They aren't anywhere near as severe as yours but nonetheless...

I have a physical therapist that has me do a number of back, ab and oblique strengthening exercises. I rarely do situps but I do a lot of crunches and other exercises that focus on the abs and obliques without stressing my back too much. I highly recommend seeing a physical therapist or an exercise guru. They will help to make sure you do it right. You can do more damage exercising incorrectly than by doing nothing at all. Also, stretch out. I do yoga stretches and they really help too.

Another throw to try is the forehand roller. The motion is similar to the forehand throw but the arm position puts less stess on your back.

Make sure you stretch and warm up the muscles in your legs and back before you start a round. Once you have back problems you'll have it for life. All you can do is try to minimize the risk of blowing out your back. If you are open to chiropractic I would suggest you consult one of them. Ask them for stretching exercises that will reduce the risk of further irritation. I personally will not start a round without stretching first. I'll skip practicing on the putting basket before I'll skip my stretching routine. I can't afford the copays and pain of having my back go out.

Good Luck.

I think that what you do off the course will help you as much as what you do on the course. I highly recomend a good chiropractor. I had back pain every day up until I went to see mine, and now my back feels great. I agree with Cap'n sit ups too, good strong abs will always help your back.

madcow, if you try the tomahawk and you feel no pain, work on that. you can get 300+ feet on a tomahawk if you keep practicing it. if you do throw tomahawks i would recommend getting an Epic by Aerobie, these are great for tomahawks.

when you say "irritated back" do you know exactly what is wrong with your back? don't waste your time with chiropractors until you have an MRI done. i made the mistake of playing in pain for 6 months after a back injury because my chiropractors weren't smart enough to send me to get an MRI. when i finally went to see a neurosurgeon, he sent me to get the MRI and found i have a ruptured disc in my back. he then shot me up with what is called an epidural steroid injection to relieve the inflammation on my spinal cord, and a couple weeks later my back feels good as new.

so, if you haven't, go see a neurosurgeon. hope you can get some pain relief!

Do you carry your bag or do you have a pull cart? If you carry your bag than get a pull cart. Having a cart helps make back a bunch

Best, best, best remedy for back problems: Massage and Chiropractic together. If you've got misalignments in your spine, the chiro can knock those babies back into place, but if you've got lots of muscle tension in the low back area, you'll also need massage to allow the chiro adjustments to hold. DO NOT believe the guy who said that once you've got back problems, you've got them for life - and I wouldn't recommend playing through the pain by changing your throw or your style or whatever. First, check your arches....if you've got really high arches, or especially really flat feet, that's most likely the source of your back pain. Orthotics inserts in your shoes will rebalance your body and get it ready for the next step in healing - go to a podiatrist for inserts if that's what your issue is. Also, look to your lifestyle in general to see how you can minimize the daily irritation - get a lumbar support for your car if you drive a lot, sleep only on your back with a pillow or two under your knees and start to lose weight if that's an issue as well. Back pain sucks more than anything - as a massage therapist, I work on people all day long with back pain and you must take an active role in your life to get yourself away from the danger of living a life of inactivity. If you're already going down that road, it's going to take some investment of time and money on your part, but it's worth it. I started down that road in 2002 when I started school for massage and it killed my already messed up back. Weekly hour massages, visits to the chiropractor, orthotics and tons of exercise and most importantly TWO YEARS OF DEDICATED PATIENCE has me in better shape than any other time in my life and I can quite honestly say I feel 18 again. Don't resign yourself to pain and limited throwing styles, man, fight the good natural fight! (which doesn't really involve steroid injections into your spine - I would do a lot of reading on that first and reserve it as a very, very last option).

Come see me if you live in Michigan....

Ivy knows what's up...she hooked my ***** up several times.

Thanks everyone for the great responses. I swear I posted a reply the other day, but it looks like it did not post. All your suggestions have been very helpful. I worked on the wrist 'snap' on my side-arm and it added about 50 feet to my throw, and gave me better control. I started using a "cross-over/scissor technique" for my backhand, and now I can get similar distance without much torque at all. I *tried* working on the tomahawk, and forehand roller, and while they go far, they usually go far the wrong way. I'll be working on those more.

As for the health stuff, I have a partially ruptured disc in my lower back (L4-L5); a work injury. I need to work on it, but I've had trouble finding a program that works for me. To the person who said "you must take an active role in your life to get yourself away from the danger of living a life of inactivity", you're absolutely right. I just started realizing that, unfortunately, after spending a couple years just trying to avoid discomfort by not doing anything. I'm ready to find things I can do, and to get myself back in shape to do the things I can't. Unfortunately, I don't live in Michigan, I live in the SF Bay. Thanks again everyone!

A physical therapist trained in McKenzie Exercises may provide you with some valuble insights and knowledge... Try a Google search for McKenzie Exercises.
Doc

If you have back problems just throw sidearm. Uses no back at all. Just stand there and flick, good for tee shots and midrange. Good for 300 foot drives, easy.

Lousy for putting though. For that I use a chicken wing.

dont want to get to far off subject but how do you putt chicken wing? i'm fairly decent when it comes to using the wing but i could never figure out how to putt like that. mind explaining alittle

: ) :

thanks for the tip morgan, I am working on getting my sidearm motion fluid enough that I don't need use any torso rotation. can you really get 300 ft with just arm/wrist motion? now that i'm doing ok with sidearm, i've realized that crouching over during putts was a major source of back pain, so i was going to switch to using a turbo putt., however, what's a chicken wing??

Although I have seen exceptions, most holes over 400 ft. have a decent sized fairway, so if you are having troubles going over 300 ft. I suggest rollers for those ultra-long, wide-open holes. All the masters players around here (not trying to suggest that you are old) roll every hole over 300 ft. Sounds like the Forearm is working for you, so maybe use that for approaches, and short drives, but if you can really start to work a good roller in, you will find you don't have to put half the effort into your long drives. If you can get someone to teach you the "throwler" with a really understable disc (where you throw the disc anhyzer and get it to flip up into a roller) then you'll be set.

hope that helps :D

I know how you feel! I've had two major back surgeries and I still play with pain. :(
I use an over-the-counter strong back brace. I wear a shirt under the brace to reduce irritation.
STRETCH! It helps alot! Then spend 15-20 min. throwing a putter at about 100' to 200'. If it bothers you to putt, learn to putt on your knees! It works!! :)

Learn to drive using your arm and wrist! You can decrease the "torso twist" this way. Do a "three step" approach to your drive and do it about 80%. Follow thru more and pivot on your lead foot. DO NOT WEAR CLEATS!!
Understand your limitations. Don't try to drive 300+. Rely more on your approaches at the 250' distance.

I still hurt after a round but I've learned to listen to my body. It'll tell you if you're overdoin' it! This works for me, so good luck. Hope it works for you too :D

As said LOTS of stretching..and a handfull of SOMA doesnt hurt either :D

MadCow:

This may be encouraging for you. I've seen two players who can barely use their legs throw sidearms 350-400.' One is a young guy with some sort of 'fused-hip' birth defect. The other was a bit older and had to wear leg braces, apparently all his life. They both just stand there and fire.

So, yes it's possible!
:D

Hey Blarg,

I just dissed La Mirada over on the East vs West thread, but I'm with you on this one.

I've got "severely degenerated spinal structure" and "significant degeneration" of the L4 L5 discs. Been dealing with this condition for about 15 years. Only recourse is fusion surgery which I've refused several times due to a severe lack of faith in surgeons. I've had two major surgeries: twice each. The first attempt failed both times. I don't think I get two chances at back surgery.

My point. I throw 300-350 and sometimes even 375-400. I've learned to rotate my entire body with the scissor step and make sure I follow through freely. Got to pull the arm through close to the body and follow through to get the snap. It's a relatively slow throw but it works. Course you couldn't tell by my player rating :D

All the stuff about chiropractors and stretching may or may not be useful. For me a chiropractor, no matter how good, is poison. If my L4-L5-S1 move at all I'm in severe pain for weeks. Stretching is out too. And yes I actively work with a physical therapist. There is a whole series of exercises that work the abdominals and lower back muscles (whatever they're called) sort of around the edges. TENS units are great devices too. Ten sit-ups and I'm out for a month.

Good luck. And take it easy.