I've been working on adding the tomahawk throw into my game some, and here is what I have found concerning discs and wind and how they tomahawk.

1) The greater the stability of the disc, the faster it executes the spiral.

For instance, a Banshee will execute the spiral more quickly than a Stingray. The net result of this is that the understable discs spend more time flying upside-down than the overstable discs.

2) Throwing into the wind causes the disc to execute the spiral more quickly.

3) Throwing with the wind causes the disc to execute the spiral more slowly.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar to this? I haven't really had a chance to see how crosswinds affect tomahawks.

btl.
PDGA#17404

Brian, your stability observations do not always hold true. There must be other factors than stability (glide? dome? speed?). I find that My whippetX which is the most overstable disc I have takes its time in turning over and therefore I can throw it farther than any other disc UD as it is gliding during its flight. For me, discs that turn quickly (I use a beat eagle if I want a quick spiral) do not go as far as the flip and dive. When a disc gets too beat (understable?) I have actually flipped them so hard and fast that they actually start to level out and fly 90 degrees from my original throw after they flip completely around.

Keep experimenting and look at factors other then stability as you find what works best for you.

Terry

I don't think there's a way that you can just look at a disc and know how fast it's going to flip. A #1 hyzer, which is very overstable, takes a long time to flip, but then again, so does my beat putter. I tend to think that the smaller the disc and the domier the top, the faster it will flip. But there are exceptions to that, too. Plus, there's more than one way to throw a upside-down shot and that affects flip speed also. If there is a tried and true method for looking at a disc and knowing how fast it flips, I'd like to hear about it. -- kurt from Seattle.

Ditto, size of disc and amount of dome are the best predictors. Beating up the disc increases dome so it flips faster. The most flip-resistant disc I know is the Rhyno.

It also depends on how you throw, the angle, velocity, ect... I can usualy control an overhand throw so it flips between two trees and makes a tough shot look easy. (although I hold my breath whenever I shoot one and watch it twist and turn around the trees) I take an Eagle and work with it a bit until its a little beat up. Then it becomes a tomohawk throwing disc for me.

But thats just my opinion, I am no world champion.

I think that much of this is directly related to release angle and grip. If you agree, let's get everyone on the same page by including this info.

If talking in clock terminology, at what o'clock are you releasing your tomahawk? Is your grip a 2finger forehand grip?

Thanks,
M.J.

P.S. Do you find that the thumber gives you a mirrored flight path...or totally different?

Good thoughts MJ, it is my contention that thummers and tomahawks are not quite the same as most people that I have observed (myself included tend to release their thummer slightly bottom side up and the tomahawk slight top side up (both between 12:30 & 1:00 on the clock - I have seeen people release their tomahawks around 11:00 on occasion though giving it the bottom up effect as well). I find that this makes most thummers flip earlier (I mean they are already slightly turned over - I will go as low as 2:30 for thummers if I want them to flip very fast) than a tomahawk. I also find that my thummer tends to dive harder than my tomahawk so if I do not care about which direction they are flipping (open shots) I will use the thummer when I am worried about the disc sticking when it hits (usually) and use the tomahawk for a little extra distance (I throw thummer extremely accurately - if I do say so myself - up to about 260 feet and tomahawks less accurately up to about 290 feet).

Any body else notice this stuff or am I really spending way too much time watching my discs fly?

Terry (I'll try to not write within ( ) marks so much in future posts) West

Terry, your thoughts sounds about right to me -- kurt from Seattle

The last shot I ever made in my life was a thumber. Courtney had just taken our little girl away, said I was a lousy father, I was hooked on methadone, the sales of our last album In Utero were down, so I tried a thumber. Pointed the barrell in my mouth and just thumbed myself up here to the netherlands.

Heaven is in Holland?

Loved the tunes, Curt. Courtney is a ho.

Morgan -- now that's funny.

Kurt (from Seattle), Thanks

Kurt "Kobayne", Not that I am with the PC police or anything, but your post was kinda tasteless (IMNSHPO - in my not so humble professional opinion) as suicide is not really something to be laughed at.

Terry (sometimes I just can't mind my own business) West

Yeah... and his music was nothing to take seriously either.... yea 3 chord crap...

You must not own a radio/tv because he just changed how program directors formatted forever.

Yeah, they all decided to stop programming grunge rock anything else from Seattle. No offense, Kurt from Seattle. (Not Curt from Seattle)

Good line of disc-ussion: Tommy's and Thumbers.

About 2 years ago at my home course (Bassett, Mpls. MN) I saw these 2 dudes just basing every hole from 325' in with thumbers. So I inquired (as every learning disc golfer should do)and they gave me the instructions for this effective weapon. It turns out that they were the imfamous "Thumber-Brothers-Gatlin". Who better to learn from?

What I gleaned from their tutelage was:
1: Throw it at 12:00 (release)
2: Throw it like your heaving a football on a deep post pattern.
3: For shorter throws adjust your mindset
continued...

Part II:

Well this year I started using the 2-finger tommyhawk to great success. Problem is that I can no longer throw the thumber accurately. But I love the 2-finger.

I use to use a banshee (173 gm /-). If new I could throw it 275' max.
Now I use 2 different Firebirds (174 gm.) Can almost get 300' on demand.
The Gatlin's generally use X2's. My pal Mola uses a beat Gazelle for Thumbers. Go Vikings!

I use to throw the 2 finger but since I have learned the thunber it has just disapeared. The accuracy is just gone. I guess training the muscles one way without constantly jumping in between styles factors in loss of accuracy. I think I can get more D with the thumber.

I usually throw a Talon and can crank a good 320' out of her.
Which throw do you think gives you more D, Thumber, or 2 finger?

What disc do people recomend for the most distance?

Will this throw really tear your shoulder up after a few years?

It depends on the strength of your shoulder and the way you throw the shot. If you throw it like a baseball with your arm partially extended (elbow at about 90 degrees) it puts a lot of stress on your rotator cuff. If you throw it more like a football with the disc on your shoulder or beside your ear there is very little stress on the shoulder, but it is much easier to hyper-extend the elbow.

Quick question, I have'nt been playing disc too long and want to learn to throw a good thumber. How do you properly throw one? What grip should I use? Thanks in advance for any help!

Is there more than one grip? (Thumb should be inside the lip) Just throw it like a baseball with that flick of the wrist on the end. Also if you are right handed, aim left of the target. (but not to much) You will be chunking them accurately within a week.

Thanks

Will this throw really tear your shoulder up after a few years?



I personally know 2 individuals that have totally screwed their rotator cuffs throwing thumbers. However, they threw lots of thumbers and are both in my age group 35-45, so they aren't young pups. One of these guys hasn't played a competitive round of disc golf in over a year because of the injury, but hopes to be back on the course sometime within the next year.

I have seen 2 basic grips, and 2 basic throwing styles.

The grip I use is a balled fist with the thumb locked inside the rim pressing the disc down into the index finger. Good snap and control for over the top and line drive skip shots.

The other grip has one or two fingers on the top of the disc and more of a pinch between those fingers and thumb. I haven't had much luck with this grip, but many others do.

The throws are basically the difference between baseball and football throws. With the baseball type throw, the arm is more extended and the disk starts behind the player and away from the body. This type of throw puts a lot of stress on the shoulder and rotator cuff.

The second throw is more like a football throw where the disc sits near the shoulder and ear. The elbow leads the throw. When the elbow is pointed on the desired line, the forearm snaps down that line. Much less pressure on the shoulder, but if thrown too hard, you can feel it in the elbow.

Thanks, your post is quite helpful! :)