Can anyone shed some light on the best grips for driving with putters? I have recently starting driving with my Omega softie and can usually get it out around 300'. The problem is that I can't seem to get a smooth release. I currently use the 2 finger under grip with the pointer and middle finger underneath. I have tried other grips but I just can't seem to get the same kind of snap. Is it something I'm doing wrong with my technique (not enough arm speed or something) or is it the grip? Thanks a lot for any responses.

I also drive with an omega SS often and I found the same thing occuring so i switched from a grip with all my fingers underneath to one with my index finger on the rim like a putt, I lost some distance but it is a smoother release and is accurate.

Chris/Rog

Try getting one of those Omega drivers and use your normal driving grip (a drive is a drive). Smilar shape to the other Omegas but made with stiffer millenium plastic.

John

When I crank on my putter it always turns over. Do you guys put some hyzer on the disc to get it to fly straight? Ive seen some pretty far drives woth putters and just cant seam to immatate it. Most I can get is around 250. What is the secret?

Try a Bulldog. I had the same release problem attempting to drive w/ Aviars (& a power grip), but the thicker rim of a Bulldog allow my ridiculously-sized hand to use a power grip & get a smooth, consistent release.

Like throwing beach plastic, you need to ramp up the spin and tone down the speed. The flight is a high-to-low floaty path that takes a long time to get there. If you throw a putter like a driver, it will flip from the excessive speed.

When I crank on my putter it always turns over. Do you guys put some hyzer on the disc to get it to fly straight? Ive seen some pretty far drives woth putters and just cant seam to immatate it. Most I can get is around 250. What is the secret?



Get a CE Ryhno or a CryZtal Z Challenger then they wont turn over :D

I think the secret is to be happy with 250'! :D

...I've seen Steve Rico and Joel Hall drive putters 300+, and I'd like to imitate...but, etc. ;)

Never heard of a bulldog but that sounds like part of my problem. Release and arm speed are messing it up. I will try to increase the spin and keep trying with the Aviar until I find a bulldog. Might try a challenger to but kinda weary about that putter with some stank on it.

KC aviars make great drivers as well.

When I crank on my putter it always turns over. Do you guys put some hyzer on the disc to get it to fly straight? Ive seen some pretty far drives woth putters and just cant seam to immatate it. Most I can get is around 250. What is the secret?



try throwing it with the nose up.

Might try a challenger to but kinda weary about that putter with some stank on it.



I can get my CryZtal Z Challenger out over 300ft on flat ground and i throw with ALOT of snap and armspeed. I can even get new 174 Pro D challengers out that far without problems but its doesnt matter because i just pull out a BUZZ when its gets to that range anyway. I only use putters inside 250 anyway. You dont need to throw one any farther then that ;)

Bulldog (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Board=Equipment&Number=267170&Searchpage=0&Main=254767&Search=true&#Post267170)

Will try to find a bulldog. There is a shot for every disc. One particular hole is a pain at a local park and I saw a friend chunk a putter and put it alot closer to the pin than my best shot. This particular hole just goes great with a putter natural flight characteristics. Who makes the bulldog?

innova makes the bulldog

See first sentence of above thread..."one hole" shots always sound kinda extreme, pathetic, even...what're this "particular situation" shot's particulars? Is a straight line-of-flight beneficial, essential, even? Or is it not the 'getting there' but rather the 'stopping' which is the problem? [Bulldogs are great for this, all attitudes]

E.g., What type of path is your friend's disc taking, which behooves his shot [in said situation[s]] so much?

.......but it doesnt matter because i just pull out a BUZZ when its gets to that range anyway. I only use putters inside 250 anyway. You dont need to throw one any farther then that ;)



Very true... I am trying a Champion aviar for 200-250ft drives and if that still is not stable enough I am going to Cam Todd Challengers.

But I saw Juilanna throw a JK-aviar-x 250ft. It was downhill but she threw it straight out flat, and let the fade drop it beside the basket. Made me feel insignificant when I threw an MRV on the same hole.

Well the disc takes a pretty straight line for about 150-200' then it starts dumping to the right slightly and holds the line for another 125'-150 or so before it lays down next to the basket. The problem is a huge tree that you have to go under or around. There is basically no path to the right and the path staight ahead has a tree branch hanging down kinda low. The best path is out to the left around the tree and let it turn over towards the basket. There is a water hazard next to the tree on the left. I have tried side arm for a long time but the basket is so deap that the power needed to reach the basket turn over the side arms and I land in the creek to the left of the tree.

I really like driving with Gateway Hard and Medium Wizards. They fly like slightly slower rocs with much more glide, so if you get the putter up in the air, you can get it around 275 (which is what I average). I do agree with the comment about toning down the speed and getting more spin. Slow down your stroke, and get good snap, and you should be able to put a putter out 300 no prob.

Hahaha... Heeren started this thread 4 years ago! You learned to throw a putter yet Chris???

Yeah I dug this thread out of a grave. Got tired of seeing the same questions asked and thought I would try to set an example.

I was suprised to see Chris started this thread and knew it was gonna be a good one to bring back alive. This is the Frankenstein thread.

So, the hole is 275'-350?

Sounds kinda long for a putter hole; more like a righty Roc-hole, the turnover is late. Also, perhaps your friend is a freak-of-nature? :confused:

Or a thumber, tomahawk, sidearm...

Nope thumber and Tomahawk are out of the question considering the giant tree in the way. I would say the hole is 350' Yes my friend is a freak of nature but that is besides the point. I think the advice about less arm and more spin with the lip up is the best advice I have heard yet. The side arm is possible maybe with a monster. I do not have one but any disc I have thrown side arm usually turns over and kills my fade which is needed so badly after the tree which is 200' out. This hole is #4 at Pease in Austin and the guy is Goblin. Sweetest throw I have seen with a putter in a long time.

Youve never seen me throw a putter then have you??? :eek: :p

now there is a modest disc golfer!!

Wow ,you throw a Challenger 300ft.Why dont you ask MDR 3000 how far he throws his putters? Ive seen him throw putters on a slight downhill hole 440ft away.Hole 5 at Camden Park.

Right!!!! Hey dude why dont you post some video clips of yourself driving with a putter then I can judge.

hmmmmmm,,,challenged!!! :D:D

Wow ,you throw a Challenger 300ft.Why dont you ask MDR 3000 how far he throws his putters? Ive seen him throw putters on a slight downhill hole 440ft away.Hole 5 at Camden Park.



I might want to ask him if he has every finished top 5 at an A Tier or if he finished in the top 25 at worlds. Oh wait i already know the answer to those questions so he can go right ahead and keep throwing his putters farther then me because untill he is BETTER then me its doesnt really matter now does it??? :eek:

i've seen putters thrown around 450 slightly downhill with wind by ron convers on more than one occasion, and yes he has both placed top 25 at worlds and top 5 at an A-tier. :)

Thats awesome guys, but is there any more advice for me to crank them babies on out there? How about the slow turn over after 200'? Any advice to get it to take this route rather than just straight with a left fade? RHBH of course.

i've seen putters thrown around 450 slightly downhill with wind by ron convers on more than one occasion, and yes he has both placed top 25 at worlds and top 5 at an A-tier.




We arent talking about Ron Convers here but that cool :D

grunion , play rounds only using your putter.this will not only im,prove your putter game but will increase your driver distance as well!!

Chirs, you may want to give the Fan or the pinch grip a go. For me, I find that I get a smoother release with a putter when I use much more of a bent elbow (compared to what I use for a midrange or a driver). I use the fan, pinch and or bird grip on putters for approaches and drives.

I dont get to play enough to play rounds with a putter. Would be nice and I like the approach but it is not feasable at this time. I have to make every game count and it would not be wise for me to throw a putter over and over on every hole. I would here so much crap about my score being so high. No one would want to stand and wait on me to catch up to there drives. Is a good and probably most logical way to get this down but that would be frustrating to everyone. Well maybe I could play with you efrain, you have a weenie arm right :D Maybe I need to go knock on Goblins door for some tips.

I would say the hole is 350'


Forget the putter. I once bought an XD because Ken Jarvis throw one 350 feet on a perfect left-to-right fade that landed right under the basket. The XD was a great disc for me, but I never got it to do that myself! :)

Left-to-right, 350 feet, low branch at 200 feet, and you are right handed? One word, buddy: ROLLER! :D

Chase and Whatever_my_name_is_today_Pimp,

I certainly don't want to get caught up in the smack talk between two excellent players such as yourselves; however, Hole 5 at Camden Park is neither 450 feet, nor is it "slightly downhill." According to the hole description (http://www.geocities.com/qcdiscgolf/milan.html), this shot is only 434 feet. As you can see by the picture (http://www.geocities.com/qcdiscgolf/milan/hole5.jpg), the angle of the hill is very steep.

I just wanted to clear that up. Mike did win the Amateur World Distance title this year; I think that would be proof enough that he can throw far.

Kinda scary to throw a roller. Not very good at those yet. Still got that creek on the left and 100' there is a road on the right hand side. This putter throw was a very effective shot. Gotta get this one down.

Nobody asked you what place you finished in any tournaments you played in this year. This thread is about driving distance with a putter. Mike (MDR 3000) has you beat on this as well. Period. Are you going to bring up my tournament placings this year as another drift from the thread? Or close your pie hole as you should?

I just wanted to clear that up. Mike did win the Amateur World Distance title this year; I think that would be proof enough that he can throw far



I got 5th place with 492 Ft and NONE of my own discs :eek:

If you want to throw a putter watch old school golfers play. The ones who still have the same driving style from a time before overstable plastic.

I can throw Soft Magnets in a straight line about 300ft, and I haven't tried throwing my soft challengers far yet. My style is more wrist snap, less arm. I throw my Magnets on a hyzer angle and they just flip up and stay flat during the whole flight. Very useful for straight shots where there is no room for the disc to fade or turn over too much.

When I started throwing putters this far I was using them a lot, but then switched to midranges where it was the best shot. Just cause you can throw a putter or midrange to the hole dosen't mean it's the best choice.

Nobody asked you what place you finished in any tournaments you played in this year. This thread is about driving distance with a putter. Mike (MDR 3000) has you beat on this as well. Period. Are you going to bring up my tournament placings this year as another drift from the thread? Or close your pie hole as you should?



I didnt see him throwing putters at the distance competition and come to think of it i dont think i was throwing putters either. So how would you know that he throws them further then i do. Funny how he only beat me by about 15 ft or so in the prelims of the distance and then the wind picked up and her threw 535 and my buddy McCalister DEFINATLEY threw further then he did but ended up losing. Looks like being a home town boy paid off somewhere :eek: I wasnt even throwing my own discs :mad: You should shut your pie hole though because you arent Mike are you??? If he wants to talk about his distance thats fine but im sure he doesnt need his YES MEN to do it for him. So why dont you pull your head out of Mikes ACE wipe the POOP off your nose and go learn how to play disc golf or throw far so you can come back and post for yourself on this thread instead of being someone elses YES MAN :mad:

I am not one of Mikes "yes men" or whatever your talking about, im simply stating the facts.

This thread didnt say hey anyone who knows anyone who can throw putter far come on here and post about it. It said that someone needed HELP throwing putters FAR and since you cant do that and I CAN you should prolly shut YOUR pie hole and go post on a thread where you can say something productive and not just boast about what someone you know can do.

Well Flyin' High, you certainly seem to have struck a nerve.

Well Flyin' High, you certainly seem to have struck a nerve.



He just likes to pop his mouth off about stuff that other people can do because he cant brag about anything that HE can do. Atleast i am talking about stuff that I can do and not stuff that someone else can do. :D

And talking, and talking, and TALKING, ... :p

Lol ok buddy, nobody brought up how you finished at an A-tier or at Worlds did they? Anyways enough of the crap.

I can throw a putter around 275', and i use a fairly new pr-line Avair. My trick is to release at around 6-7 (on a clock) and throw it with as much snap and spin as possible. After about 75' the putter flattens out and will hold a straight line until the last 50' of the throw. I recommend going out to a field to try different release angles w/ different putters with the SAME amount of snap and spin so you will understand the consistency of your putters.

Your way to full of yourself Pimp.Its laughable.First Mikes not from Des Moines, and he threw shots in the warm ups that wouldve made Jarvis and Sandstom take notice.He threw shots FARTHER than ANYONE in warm ups, with the exception of the farthest thrower in the WORLD. I can write in big letters,too.Yeah hes my friend and I play with him and support him like I would any friend or local.Im not doubting that you can throw your putter far, I can throw mine over 275 EASY.I will say he has as much TALENT as anyone Ive EVER played with but his consistency is poor,it is getting better and it will show this year.Im not knocking your game Mills, if you want to look at it that way go ahead.If your as good as you say,Ill be playing with you alot and I will show you the respect you obviously crave.Oh yeah, KC Aviars slight hyser.10x work the best for me.

I have an aviar and a omega supersoft. I will try them both. Is the guys that said release them at 6 or 7 oclock, is that the angle of the disc. **** that is one helluva hyzer release. I will give it all a shot. Maybe Goblin will show his face and tell me what his secret is.

Oh yeah, stop bickering guys.

Your way to full of yourself Pimp.Its laughable.First Mikes not from Des Moines, and he threw shots in the warm ups that wouldve made Jarvis and Sandstom take notice.He threw shots FARTHER than ANYONE in warm ups, with the exception of the farthest thrower in the WORLD. I can write in big letters,too.Yeah hes my friend and I play with him and support him like I would any friend or local.Im not doubting that you can throw your putter far, I can throw mine over 275 EASY.I will say he has as much TALENT as anyone Ive EVER played with but his consistency is poor,it is getting better and it will show this year.Im not knocking your game Mills, if you want to look at it that way go ahead.If your as good as you say,Ill be playing with you alot and I will show you the respect you obviously crave.



Im not full of myself. I just like to talk trash :D Hopefully you will be playing with me this year. Im working on my putting so hopefully i will be ALOT better then i was last year. I was only consistent last year from about 15 ft :mad: Hopefully I can get consistent out to 25 and 30 ft by the time the season gets going :D I dont take it as ragging on my game but im friends with Josh Romine and Scott Slater ( both members of Team Discraft) and i dont come on here and tell you all the things they can do or talk for them. I come on here and talk for myself abuot things that I can do.

Good luck next year and i hope to see you at some big tournaments because i wont be going to worlds this year unless its pro worlds.

anyone make a putt yet?? move on to the next hole please !!

I dont like it when people stand in front of the basket. FFFOOOOORRRRRR!!!!!!!

What the hell are you talking about??!!! You can't hit a putt even with someone elses putter and someone else throwing it!!! :D:D:D:D:p

The thread is driving with a putter, not putting with a putter. Geeez whats gotten into people today! Nice wannabe burn but take it where it is appropriate.

I dont like it when people stand in front of the basket. FFFOOOOORRRRRR!!!!!!!

hmmmmmmmmmmm that sounds like driving with a putter to me :p

Listen all you fools standing in the way of productivity, Move the heard to the next tee so I can drive and practice this throw with a putter.. FFFFOOOORRRR!!!!!!!!!

Minicrusher will you teach me how to putt???

Well, you aren't very good at rollers and you aren't very good at throwing putters 350 feet..... :D

My feeling on this? You very well might never be able to throw a putter 350 feet, but adding a decent roller to your game will help your overall game a lot.

Just something to think about.

:Dwhat color putter do you use? Cuz you know color can make the differance!!! I personally like blue but some people like purple,,some people like neon,,,either way,,,,I can school you! :p

Black White or Orange. White and Orange Cam Todd Challengers and Black Pro D Challengers :D

I beg to differ. Get back Mutha you dont know me like that.

grunion take the putter to bagdad!! only the putter!!

10-4 I hear you but bagdad is kinda small. Good practice for lunch.

Hahaha... Heeren started this thread 4 years ago! You learned to throw a putter yet Chris???


Holy . . . . . where did this thread come from?? I thought I just started using this discussion board 2 years ago, that must be my first post ever lol haven't even been playing for a year haha

Thanks for all your replies, I have thought them through and have learned a great deal. I can now throw my putter "fairly well" and am pleased with the results. Thanks . . . :D

Thanks for all your replies, I have thought them through and have learned a great deal. I can now throw my putter "fairly well" and am pleased with the results. . . . :D


Don't let him fool you he still can't throw them.
There are many people that I know that can throw 315+ with a putter. :D:D:D

Actually, I did some research and found out that I didn't even start this thread. I didn't know what the PDGA was until 2001 let alone a pdga discussion board. There are a few posts under my name in 00' then a 2 year gap, then I started posting under the name in 2002. Here are my first two posts ever . . . haha
http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Board=Miscellaneous&Number=47731&Sear chpage=0&Main=47710&Search=true&#Post47731
( I guess I was even more sarcastic then than I am now )
I'm just not sure how I would have logged in under his name without his password? Unless they reset the user names if it hasn't been active in a year or so.

Just get a magnet, challenger, or aviar...

Put it almost on a vertical tilt and crank it high in the air,
This will give it more time to glide, you'll get 300'+ with SOME effort...

Wow, thanks for the info. That is what I needed to hear. I can't wait to try the new advise.
Chris, I have no idea about the thread. I just found it buried way back in the grave and brought it back to life. Very interesting.

Try a Challenger...Easy 300'

I dont get to play enough to play rounds with a putter. Would be nice and I like the approach but it is not feasable at this time. I have to make every game count and it would not be wise for me to throw a putter over and over on every hole. I would here so much crap about my score being so high. No one would want to stand and wait on me to catch up to there drives. Is a good and probably most logical way to get this down but that would be frustrating to everyone. Well maybe I could play with you efrain, you have a weenie arm right :D Maybe I need to go knock on Goblins door for some tips.



I doubt that just using putters would slow your game down much. Sure it hurts you on holes over 400ft, but even I managed to squeak out a 4 on a 700ft hole using only aviars. Another AM here in town challenged me on our medium setup (~6000ft - 18 holes) He would only use Rocs and I aviars. He shot a 53 while I shot a 55, not bad considering normally he shoots 48 and I 50 in that setup with a complete bag.

If someone is complaining about your pace when it really isn't that slow, chuck a disc at them, they are obviously ignorant.

I hear people talking about them, but where can I find a Cam Todd Challenger? Or is that just a nickname for a certain line of plastic?

Where can we find the discs?

I did not start this thread but just to get the confusion out of the way I did start the thread above it :)

For those of you who could not find the Cam Todd Challengers...www.sunkingdiscs.com they have them for 11.99 plus shipping and tax if you live in Florida. If I knew that they were a limited run, and if I had money then I would of bought more then one.

Thanks for the info!

I can throw a 3 time JK Aviar about 330-50, the trick I have is starting it off with some height. I use a pinch grip with all fingers underneith, I have the crease of my index finger on the edge, and pinch between the index finger and the middle finger with the thumb. I usually know the exact path it takes right as I release it. The only problem is it will fly SOOO straight, that if its off in the beginning, it will only be off more in the end. But if released well, chainage. I find the harder thrown, the staighter it goes (assuming heighth is given in the beginning). It was fun sinking a bullet at mach speed at the Ace Race in A2 this last November. The thing I DON'T LIKE about throwing putters is trees kill all their momentum, atleast with my soft putters AND wind is NOT a putters friend.

...must have cabin fever: http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/camtoddch.jpg Challenger via sunkingdiscs (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=3121-CTSCH)

...nice selection of "Dr. Dye" there.

wind is NOT a putters friend.



Hoping to improve my form, I've been working on driving with a putter. I've gotten to the point of throwing over 300 feet by giving the putter quite a bit of height. Anyways, I haven't really thrown my putter on a windy day, and wanted to know how the wind is not the putter's friend. Is it mostly the lost distance into a headwind? How do putters do with a sidewind compared to a stable driver?

I'm thinking my putter may displace some of my midrange shots (where there is a high ceiling), but I'm trying to weigh the pros/cons

thanks in advance
-JOn

I try to use my putter whenever I feel it will reach the pin without my having to really force it. (Whenever I try to get more D from a disc than is really there, accuracy suffers -- usually griplock).

I played Ultimate for years before turning to disc golf, and for a while I got better distance out of a putter than anything else. Throwing understable frisbees and ultrastars taught me to throw nose up with height and to use hyzer and a lot of spin to keep the disc from flipping and crashing. Such a technique works better with a putter like an aviar than it does with a driver. Throw a driver nose up and high and it will stall and fall hard left. That frustrated me a lot when I first began throwing drivers. Dave D. helped me realize that old school discs and even putters to a degree will pull their own nose down when thrown high and nose up, but that modern drivers are designed to have lift and in general need to be thrown nose down and lower.

I still, get good D out of putters, but I am finally learning how to throw drivers successfully. I still use an "FU" grip (modified fan grip with middle finger slightly extended) for all drives and approaches as it gives me added control and I don't feel like I sacrifice distance.

When there is a headwind, I just use more hyzer and spin like I had to when playing Ultimate when the wind was up.
More spin = more stability provided the torque is not off-axis. That is where old school techniques come in handy. If you throw with more spin and power but the torque is off-axis the baby will flutter, flip, and crash.

If you can find Cam they might be less.

when driving with a putter i usually use a KC PRO AVIAR, but the element might be taking its place soon...The element goes straight without any turnover and since it is a midrange gives me a little more D than with the aviar.

Putters usually have next to non stability, so on a windy day, flipping one over can be quite easy. This isn't good though cause once they flip, the wind usually carries them with it. I usually throw putters for straight shots, but on our normal windy days here in Michigan something a little more stable is usually more wise.

Thanks for the info. I think I need to get an element and a tsunami. I hear alot of good about both.

I will be the first to admit that my arm is made of 99% noodle, but . . . I can throw a 150g dx Aviar up to 300ft on level ground. The float is tremendous, and it goes where you throw it. A little more snap and you'll get great controlled burns. But if it is windy, better use a 170g.

And SLO, Dr. Dyed 's discs are too good not to throw! Check out the Einstein (in my bag, baby!)
http://www.drdyed.com/gallery/album55?page=1

Thanks for the info. I think I need to get an element and a tsunami. I hear alot of good about both.



That is the common approach, but you might try practicing till you can throw a putter into a headwind hard without flipping it. That will help you eliminate a lot of off-axis torque -- the main culprit when it comes to not being able to throw understable discs hard without flipping them. It is easier to throw overstable stuff because the rim dampens out the off-axis torque and lets you get away with it. Watch how far a good Ultimate player can throw an Ultrastar and you'll see what I mean.

The only thing that I have found to keepem straight is alot of spin and lip up seams to do the trick I'd say I was getting around 250' with a 13 mph crosswind. The headwind was still eating my lunch. Maybe got out to a controlled 150' before I would start risking turn over.

i can toss my big bead stiff avair over 300. its a weird throw for me, definatly tone down the armspeed, and i usually release with a small bit of hyzer, just to let i pop up and fly straighter

I hear you about that hyzer. My putter just seams to go farther and farther now. Its funny cause now I am throwing it on drives on certain holes and getting it out further than people with alot of foot work and run up witht there drivers. Hehehe. Got me a crystal challenger now. Cant wait ti test this baby out.

hmmmm,,I wonder who you could be talking about!!! :D:o:p

Shhhhh. don't want to let any names out. Hehehehe.......hey Rob when you gonna join the board? :oAny who, I like my aviar for the 225-250' drives. It just seams to be working like a champ!

On a really windy day I threw a premie magnet about 450ft. It wouldn't stop flying.

That would be cool to see. Bet it looked like it would fade every tenth of a second but just never seamed to stop flying. Now thats spin folks!

Putters can be thrown extremely far, especially with a tailwind. In fact, with a direct tailwind a putter might be the longest disc you can throw.

I throw Qmegas up to around 350', and use them in golf on any holes up to 330'. Putters are dead stable, and with smooth release should not flip on you. I often get asked how I can throw a putter so far and there are really two keys: First, as was mentioned earlier in the thread by Pard...(who by the way was the first person I ever played with who could get serious "D" with his putter), is that you must put height on the shot. This is because putters drop rather than fade when they start to lose speed. For a longer putter shot, I throw higher rather than harder. The second important key has to do with arm mechanics and specifically grip. Most people I observe flipping their putters when they try and throw them far are not get a smooth energy transfer from their rip. A little off-axis torque on a putter equals a sure turnover. Because putters have such a deep rim configuration much more finesse is required with the grip/arm mechanics. I use the same grip now as I do with my drivers, but I had to start with more of a fan grip until I smoothed out my arm mechanics. Once I was smooth in terms of my mechanics, I could use more power and found the disc ripping out early. I pulled all four fingers down and had even better results. I now drive my putter with more confidence than any other disc. If you want to start pushing your putter further, here are some easy steps:

1. Start with an overstable putter to help you with the transition from midrange/driver to a putter. Good examples include the challenger, wizard, or big bead aviar. I would steer clear of the rhino as it does not require the finesse of the others and flies more like a midrange IMO.

2. Start out practicing with a more control oriented grip than you use with your drivers/mids. Concentrate on smoothness rather than power. Go to a field with your putters and get in some real repetition until you are getting a clean release and have found how high you need to throw to reach certain distances. If throwing higher still does not allow you to put more power on your throw without turning it over, you are still having mechanical issues.

3. Once you have gotten comfortable throwing your wizard/challenger/big bead with a control grip, try using a harder grip without changing your arm mechanics. If it adds significant power you may have to do a little more experimenting with shot height to keep it straight.

4. Once you have mastered the above steps, try a stable putter such as an Omega, Small bead, SS wizard, magnet, etc. as these discs have more glide and afford even more finesse in your shots. Now you have a long range/wind putter driver and a finesse putter/driver.

5. Watch the puzzlement on the faces of others as you throw your putter on a hole that they use a driver/mid on :D

Bravo! I love it! :cool:

that would be cool!!

I noticed in any earlier post to this topic someone said taht they can throw a putter 330, but that's their midrange distance so they'd rather throw the midrange as it's the better shot.
I guess for him that works, but in the theory of throwing your Slower disc the Putter will be the much better throw.
They are way more consistent and when you throw them well they are dead flat.

I throw my putters on average about 275 down narrow shoots and on a hyzer(champ aviar, crystal z challenger) i can get them around 300 without much effort.

wheni want to throw a putter straight i just throw it flat. don't know why everyone has a need for hyzer flipping eveyrthing.. i guess i'm new to the game still because i don't hyzer flip anything.

-"I suck" Scott

Hyzer flips can be deadly accurate, and are fairly easy to control...I never used them either for a while, but they my game just kinda naturally evolved, and now I wouldn't play a wooded course w/o it...or turnover holes anywhere w/o it!

I noticed in any earlier post to this topic someone said taht they can throw a putter 330, but that's their midrange distance so they'd rather throw the midrange as it's the better shot.
I guess for him that works, but in the theory of throwing your Slower disc the Putter will be the much better throw.
They are way more consistent and when you throw them well they are dead flat.

I throw my putters on average about 275 down narrow shoots and on a hyzer(champ aviar, crystal z challenger) i can get them around 300 without much effort.



I am pretty sure most people have to throw their putters higher to get them to go the same distance as their midrange and since they are slower discs they take more omph to get them to go the same distance as a midrange. My guess is he was saying, because the midrange can go on a straight line and cuts throw the air better than a putter, it requires less energy for him to throw it the same distance.

What exactly is the hyzer flip and how do you do it? What are the advantages of using it? I am somewhat new to this sport and don't know everything.

What exactly is the hyzer flip and how do you do it? What are the advantages of using it? I am somewhat new to this sport and don't know everything.



http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=284231&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Take a disc you can turnover. Release it at a hyzer angle. The disc will flip up and go staright. It is a great tool for tunnel shots. You get great distance with a staight finish.

So what are good discs to use for this?

Most discs that aren't WAY overstable can be flipped with enough power. Although broken in discs flip better because they become more overstable with time. The modern hi speed discs are a lot harder to flip (but some people can apparently) and the older slower drivers can start flipping easily once they get wear.

So what are good discs to use for this?



Depending on how far you throw, any of the Tier 1 or Tier 2 discs from this article:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/articles/choosingadisc.shtml

are good candidates to start learning how to throw a hyzer flip. I learned using a Leopard and thought it was perfect for it. Right now if I'm going to throw a hyzer flip (I do for most throws) I'll use one of these discs:

Short range: Wizard (I use it for all short range shots)
Mid range: Element
Long range: Teebird, Teebird-L or JLS
Distance: Viking

The sabre and element from Gateway are the best hyzer flip discs that I have thrown. You can check some out at www.GDStour.com. (http://www.GDStour.com.) The big advantage of throwing the hyzer flip are increasing your distance and becoming more accurate. Climo throws nearly every shot with a hyzer flip style shot. Becoming too reliant on overstable plastic will deteriorate your form. Play catch with a friend and use a putter. This will help you learn the hyzer flip better and improve your overall shot making skills. Where in South Dakota are you from? I have played at the course in Spearfish before. :cool:

Thanks for the advice. I am from Madison, SD, on the east side of the state. Disc golf is slowly becoming more popular here. We are up to 16 courses. I haven't played in Spearfish, but the two Rapid City courses are decent.

I would also say the Sabre is a great flip disc. I just bought two of the new clear evolution Sabres at 166 and 174 grams. When thrown with a little hyzer they both will flip, the 166 will turn over and run right a little before coming back and the 174 will just fly straight til it runs out of steam. In a headwind though the 174 acts like the turnover and the 166 will pull a long anhyzer. The elements are easily flipped and can be flipped too much. If you beat in an element and throw it in any kind of wind it will flip hard and take off right. I have had this happen a few times. Sometimes that is good though. The element runs a pretty S line in calm conditions though. The element X holds up a little better in the wind. Just my 2 cents.

Yeah, Elements can flip up flat pretty much right off the shelf. Otherwise just wait till its had the pleasure of meeting a few trees...then try at it.

Innova's "Ring of Rocs" (found on Zonedriven.com) have been the best flippers for me, although i have not tried the element or sabre.

Sidewinders work well for hyzer flips, even if you don't have a lot of power, you can flip them up flat and they'll do a nice anhyzer flex for a second before they fade. Also, a beaten Teebird works extremely well for hyzer flips as well.

I would recommend the Magnet and Challenger for Putter Drivers! I've seen some top pros crush the magnet 400 feet plus, and the challenger is rapidly approaching that mark. I can't quite get them beyone 3' or so, but I wouldn't really want to unless it was a perfect downhill alley and my Buzzz was stuck in a tree... ( Which may or may not be a stroke! )

I really like the aviar putt and approach and the soft s wizard for driving. I can throw them about 220 I'd say, which isn't close to 400, but most of the local guys are impressed, and whenever I manage to find a better way to throw my putters my driver throwing improves too, so I think its good idea to go out and drive with a putter no matter which putter you have. Its good to have a confident 200 ft putter approach shot too.

all my standstill shots are with putters. Beat Omega AP for turnover aproach, Aviar PUtt and approach for flat/gently hyzer and Crystal Z challenger for hyzers and spikes.
I probably throw from a standstill with a putter no futher out than about 200, but i usualy use it in the 100-200 area where i can't jump putt that conistently from there and a runup would be too much power...

-Scott Lewis

I use a orange 172 soft wizard. for 300ft and in.
Just got in my E-element X... It is a nice disc for in the wind, throw it hyzer and it will flatten out for you. I have on of the prototype Element X's in the S plastic it isn't as overstable and it does straighten up quick. I love them both and they will both be in my bag for the ages....

After reading this thread again, I've been able to extend my drives up to another 30 feet.

Aviar 150g, 8 to 10 mph tailwind, flat fairway, 320'-330'
These discs burned a little too much, but still controllable.

Aviar 171g, 8 to 10 mph tailwind, flat fairway, 300'-315'
These discs were slightly more stable and held the line all the way.

Here's what's weird:
I also tested two 170g really beat soft Wizards. While controllable, the max distance was only 275'.
Anyone have an idea why?

Hey Jim,

"Because Gateway sucks!" I am only kidding, of course, but it will not surprise me if someone actually says that. Not a knock on Gateway, just on the people who constantly bash Gateway.

To answer your question, assuming that all factors were equal (eg, speed, height, and angle at which the discs were thrown, amount of tailwind, etc), the shorter distance could be attributed to several factors, including the softer plastic, the fact that Wizards are more overstable than Aviars, and the degree to which the Wizards were "broken in." I hope this will help!

including the softer plastic, the fact that Wizards are more overstable than Aviars...


I'll second that about the softness. Though the SS Wizards aren't really too soft, it will affect distance, IMO. ie - My DX Rhynos are deninitely longer than my soft Rhynos.
Perhaps more height might help...

Assuming that all factors were equal (eg, speed, height, and angle at which the discs were thrown, amount of tailwind, etc) the lack of distance could be attributed to several factors, including the softer plastic, the fact that Wizards are more overstable than Aviars, and the degree to which the Wizards were "broken in." I hope this will help!



How would the softer plastic equal less distance? I'd have to test the theory to be sure, but I feel I can throw a JK Aviar-x just as far as the KC Aviar (same mold, different plastic). Does harder plastic deal better with off-axis torque?

There can/may be some distortion at the hit that could result in some off axis torque.

Thanks, John.
These SS Wizards were really beat and really floppy. I had to hyzer them MORE than the Aviars to get them to go straight. They straightened out quickly, then stuck to their line and dropped fast and hard.
Maybe this is because the battered surface/edge of the disc creates more drag - resulting in less float and glide?

I generally drive with my Black soft challengers into the wind. A little hyzer, and with a little height... i have no problems breaking 250, and it will still fade at the end. My medium wizards also can hold a simalar line for this D, but need a little more hyzer, as my challengers are more overstable.

Erick

Klem,

I am inclined to think that the extreme hyzer angle has more to do with the decrease in distance than the increased drag. Perhaps someone who knows more about aerodynamics and throwing technique (Dave D or Dave Mac?) will be able to answer this question.

I think you're right. Thanks!

I throw soft magnets 300ish and don't have a problem with soft/floppy putters. I think it depends on your release.

Does the beat up putter turn over- is that why it's not going as far?

Those beat wizards flip enough to go straight; when thrown with hyzer angle, the in-flight angle change probably creates drag, which decreases spin. The soft material and floppy top plate probably also add drag.

My release can be improved too, I'm sure!

Although Aviars rule my bag, I'd be interested in pulling out a 2003 Cam Todd Challenger just to test some of these theories.....

I'm not really understanding how driving with a putter can help you game.

I mean...My putter is one of the easier disc's to throw that I have in my bag.

It totally helps...So does putting with a driver :D

why the hell would you putt with a driver?????

skooled.
IF the putter is the easier disc to throw then you are definately doing something right.
most people can't drive with a putter.
I myself drive much better with a putter than i do with drivers. I just like the control and glide they get.

They say that if you can throw a putter you can throw any disc which i guess could be true because putters aren't meant to go far and they are usually way more understable than most mids and drivers.
I think it has to do with the whole Technique Vs. Power thing.
Throwing a putter over lets say 225 or 250 requires a decent technique and no power.
Throwing a putter 400 would require an almost perfect Technique and Technique TO power ratio. When youre technique is that good i guess you don't have to muscle anything.

In short, it teaches you how to throw Correctly.

-Scott Lewis

If you don't know...I can't tell you. It's kind of like putting with your disc upside down /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The funny thing is, what everyone now thinks of as putters used to be what we all used as drivers.

See, I told you putting with a driver is correct :D

what is the longest driving putter??

I'm not really understanding how driving with a putter can help you game.

I mean...My putter is one of the easier disc's to throw that I have in my bag.



Most of them fly very straigth, very slow and are very accurate. They don't have a lot of fade at the end of their flights and they don't skip too far. There's also a lot of room for error so as long as you are able to get to where you're trying to go with a putter, you're almost guaranteed to get a good lie. Even errant throws don't end up all that far away from where you were aiming.

I started driving with an Aviar putter a few years ago to force myself to throw farther and to improve the accuracy of my anhyzers; the idea was that this would improve my understanding of flight basics which I could later apply to driver-discs.
I began to enjoy using putters for turnover shots more and more, then added 150g putters to the mix and found that I got more distance and more extreme anhyzers with the lighter discs - without sacrificing much control.
Perhaps it is the beauty of a putter's glide, or the extra 1.2 seconds the disc remains airborne, but driving with putters is simply more fun sometimes.
It doesn't hurt that my home course is a small, flat course with only a few holes over 300'. ;)

what is the longest driving putter??



I would think the Challenger due to stability. Doesn't go that far for me though.

at the first Texas Ten in Round Rock the ace pot winner threw an Aviar for his ace...440 ft...Master age player :D

what hole was that??

Well...I can drive decent with a putter, but I still don't use drivers for most holes. Just can't seem to get anything to not fade left, other than putters and 150 class discs like a Leopard.

Any hole around 300 ft. there's basically no reason to risk using a driver for me.

i am using an Aviar exclusively on my home course, and believe me it works wonders. I think I've learned how to throw finally. i moved up to rocs this week and maybe drivers by BG time. having more fun than ever. Z

I drive with putters all the time. I have several in my trunk when I drive

what is the most stable putter??

Pro Challenger's , too bad i don't throw them!

me either!! :D

omega AP 1.3

175 ce firebird

from personal experience i'd say the most stable putter is the Crystal Z challenger.. They are sick overstable.
I've also found the Pro Aviars to be stable.. Maybe the one i have is weird(it's an x-out) but it's stable and has barely any glide like a rhyno...

I'd have to say from experience i'd go with the Crystal-z-Challenger, but i'd rather throw a slightly beat Aviar P&A for distance and accuracy...

-Scott Lewis

I would have to say that the E-wizard is more overstble than a challenger and I can throw it farther too. If you look closely you can see that the wizard has a rounded bevel compared to the aviar/challenger angled bevel which makes it more areodynamic. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I would have to say that the E-wizard is more overstble than a challenger and I can throw it farther too. If you look closely you can see that the wizard has a rounded bevel compared to the aviar/challenger angled bevel which makes it more areodynamic. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



In fact, its almost convexed versus concaved. But yeah...I agree...I've thrown both, and I too think that "E" Wizards are a little more overstable...not by much, but enough where it could make a difference some time.

175 ce firebird



That disc is a great putter it just sucks if you miss the putt :D

The extreme is a good putter in 30 mph winds.

175 ce firebird



That disc is a great putter it just sucks if you miss the putt :D



I'm much mo' accurate with a CE Firebird inside of 25' than I am with any putters ... just make sure you don't miss :p