Thoughts on Super Class

[JerryChesterson]

Is it just me or does the idea of super class a bad one? It seems analogous to setting up tournaments with tennis players to play with a wooden racket or ball golfers to play with wooden clubs. Isn't there a better use of our PDGA resources than on Super Class?

[cgkdisc]

It's more the other way around. Most of our courses are better designed for Super Class and we've allowed too powerful discs to be used on them sort of like trying to use Indy cars on Go-Kart tracks. We should be using the proper discs for the courses available and Super Class helps do that.

Until you try it, it may be more difficult to understand. Very little of any paid PDGA resources have been used (virtually all volunteers) and it's already generating participation and bringing in revenue while still winter. And manufacturers are warming to the idea with new disc models.

[johnrock]

CLAP,CLAP

DEFENSE! DEFENSE!

CLAP, CLAP

[bruce_brakel]

Is it just me or does the idea of super class a bad one? It seems analogous to setting up tournaments with tennis players to play with a wooden racket or ball golfers to play with wooden clubs.

It would be like playing baseball with vintage equipment and 1860s rules. http://wiki.vbba.org/index.php/Main/...intageBaseBall

It would be like having rifle season and muzzleloader season. http://www.wvdnr.gov/Regulations/hun...rDeerMuzz.shtm

It would be like archery with all the gizmos and archery with a bow and arrow. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archery

It would like racing koa canoes instead of modern fiberglass racing canoes. http://www.kaiopua.org/canoes.html

Get over it. It is no skin off your nose if some old hippies get together for a sanctioned round of FRISBEE golf. It is just another product the PDGA can sell.

[keithjohnson]

Bruce,
Don't you realize the PDGA is MAKING him play it and he's not happy.
It is tough to be happy when the PDGA is FORCING you to play Events you don't wish to play.
You've got to stop picking on these people Bruce, as they might start crying while being held at gunpoint on the teepad trying to throw that big oversized Frisbee towards the basket.

[JerryChesterson]

No one is forcing me to play, that isn't what I said. I'm just saying, isn't there a better use of PDGA resources than coming up with another class of events? I understand that many of the courses out there aren't designed with today's discs in mind. Just like many of today's ball golf courses aren't designed with 350' bomb shots in mind. I like frisbees too. Just seems that with the limited resources the PDGA has they should focus on promoting the sport that already exists instead of diluting the product with yet another type of event.

[johnbiscoe]

if super class were actually costing the pdga anything significant i'd agree with you. as it is it is really just volunteer time and there are much greater wastes of money like the marshall program.

[Merkaba311]

Just my two cents but I think super class is a great idea. Most people have a "frisbee" sitting around and would take it out to a course to give it a go, knowing little to nothing about disc golf itself.

Plus, with just one super class disc, people can play an entire course. It could spark the interest of people who have never tried before or are intimidated by the myriad of discs we who love the game use.

More people golfing with discs = more popularity for our passion = more competition = more fun.

That's just my opinion though .

[the_kid]

if super class were actually costing the pdga anything significant i'd agree with you. as it is it is really just volunteer time and there are much greater wastes of money like the marshall program.

I agree with that! If the PDGA was sopensding a lot of money for the program then I would feel it was kind of a waste. As long as there is little being put into it and there is some benefit because of it then I think it is nice to see the PDGA try to do something new (well OLD).

There are plenty of other programs which I feel are a lot more wasteful.

[gdstour]

Hopefully super class will eventually sway ultimate players into playing in disc golf competitions with their lids.
I would even say its worth our (the PDGA's) money, to market towards them. I keep hearing that there are more ultimate players than disc golfers, yet very few ultimate players play in pdga disc golf events.

The bright side for super class is that ANYONE that plays disc golf with that type of discs will improve their game.
The thing is a lot of newer players ( who have started since 1993 or so) cannot throw a super class disc very well.
They are so used to perimeter weighted, low profile, overstable discs, that super class will just flip on them.

EVERY club should hold a super class event this year to see what the responses are from their members.
I'm not saying it has to be pdga sanctioned, but I'm certain these events are a lot of fun and serve a more than one purpose. I had a lot of fun back in the day playing with Midnight flyers and I'm looking forward to watching new players learn how to throw super class discs and the scores that are produced on our courses here in ST Louis.

Lets start a different thread called GOOD IDEA - BAD IDEA for the future of the PDGA and see where it goes.

[gumbputt]

I know I am going to try and get our league to do Super Class at least once. Then after feedback maybe more often.

I know personally it will be nice to change things up on a course that I have played hundreds of times.

[johnbiscoe]

i think the idea that there are more ultimate players than disc golfers is bunk. it's a team sport- they're just better at measuring the actual numbers.

[cgkdisc]

The are twice as many active members of the UPA as the PDGA. No guess on overall numbers of players in either sport. And Ultimate is played in quite few more countries which is why it's still part of the World Games.

[the_kid]

I would have tyo guess that there are probably half as many people who play Ultimate on a regular basis as there are DGers. How much do they have to pay to join? Maybe that has something to do with the difference in numbers?

[cgkdisc]

About the same as our amateurs but they have more than one member level.

[the_kid]

About the same as our amateurs but they have more than one member level.

$40 for regular members and they have a $30 membership for college kids which I'm sure helps them bring in more players.

One other thing I though was funny is that the Lifetime membership is only $750 which is 1/3 of the PDGA's.

This tells me maybe we should try some of the same techniques to bring in more members.

[cgkdisc]

I think the competitive "lifetime" of ultimate players is a bit shorter than disc golf though.

[the_kid]

I think the competitive "lifetime" of ultimate players is a bit shorter than disc golf though.

Wow! So that explains why the lifetime id about 30% too high?

The guys I played with 20 years ago had a name for the new style of discs that had the highly beveled edges, "Stress-Tech". You stressed out if you didn't birdie every hole, because the holes that were designed in the early 1980s were now all reachable. But, which the "Stress-Tech" plastic, these discs would now slice through trees/brush behind the hole that would stop a Midnight Flyer or an Aero or Aviar, giving you a putt through the Schule, increase you stress once again.

I sure hope that I can play in a Super Class event soon. I am bummed out that the MF 40 mold was too big, though, that means I will have to buy some new discs to use to play.

[the_kid]

The 40-Mold was actually too small as it falls just under the Zepyhr diameter line.

[cgkdisc]

We have some controversy about the 40 mold because it appears all 40 molds are not the same. A buddy showed me his 40 mold this weekend and it was bigger than a Fastback and smaller than a Zephyr putting it around 23.9 cm (without actually measuring it). I asked Homburg about it and he checked some of his personal discs that were 40 series, some were F or G mold, and two were 23.7 cm making them right on the edge of compliance.

The big issue is fairness. If Wham-O actually went into production again with a "40 mold" that met the 23.7 minimum and labeled them something like 40SC, those could be approved but not any of the original models. With several sizes of 40 series out there and the disc apparently not being produced currently, it doesn't seem fair to approve a disc for SC that requires players to find it on eBay or have been around for 25 years to pull one out of the closet.

[evandmckee]

We just had our 1st Super Class event in Fort Smith, Arkansas.

We ran it as a seperate 1 day event on Sunday after Saturday's Ice Bowl.

We only pulled 9 players in Super Class compared to 69 for "normal" disc golf in Saturday's Ice Bowl.

That still added over $200 to Saturday's charity totals and it was WAY FUN, Super Class can and will help your "normal" disc golf game, these discs can do things that "normal" hi-tech plastic can't.

Don't knock it until you've tried it, even though we only pulled 9 people we will be scheduling another Super Class event soon

[cgkdisc]

Now that the winter weather has gotten much better, we jumped from 5-7 in earlier weeks up to 18 this past Sunday with 12 of them Open players. I expect Open will be bigger in Super Class events than regular events as a percentage of the field because Advanced players can hang and even dominate in Open. So far, two Advanced players have been winning Open all winter. Even some Open players I thought might not like it have seen the benefits for smoothing out their form and are planning to continue. We're already learning to tweak some tee positions so the holes play better in terms of scoring spread for Super Class.

[chrispfrisbee]

Copied to the Equipment>Super Class thread where further discussion on this controversy continues.

We have some controversy about the 40 mold because it appears all 40 molds are not the same. A buddy showed me his 40 mold this weekend and it was bigger than a Fastback and smaller than a Zephyr putting it around 23.9 cm (without actually measuring it). I asked Homburg about it and he checked some of his personal discs that were 40 series, some were F or G mold, and two were 23.7 cm making them right on the edge of compliance.

The big issue is fairness. If Wham-O actually went into production again with a "40 mold" that met the 23.7 minimum and labeled them something like 40SC, those could be approved but not any of the original models. With several sizes of 40 series out there and the disc apparently not being produced currently, it doesn't seem fair to approve a disc for SC that requires players to find it on eBay or have been around for 25 years to pull one out of the closet.

You can see that the diameter difference appears less than what the spec sheet says. This is a 40F resting on top of a Zephyr rim to rim.

Why does the mold have to be appoved for SC? Can't any PDGA approved disc that meets the SC spec be used?
Why can't you just measure a disc and see if it meets the spec?

[cgkdisc]

How would you measure flexibility onsite? There are enough dimensions to potentially check that TDs would need more than $100 worth of test gear just like the Tech standards team uses.

[the_kid]

How would you measure flexibility onsite? There are enough dimensions to potentially check that TDs would need more than $100 worth of test gear just like the Tech standards team uses.

How do they do it now? They don't do discs that are too hard are still used.

[cgkdisc]

But at least an approved model did pass the test at least once. And some models submitted in the past few years have failed this test at least once until they got the plastic just right until it passed.

One of the problems with "rogue" discs from the past is it would be less fair for new players who might not have access to these molds except paying collector prices on eBay. I would only want to approve a 40 mold from the past that was going back into production again where discs were submitted and met the specs plus had a new mold mark like 40SC. If a 40F made it to at least 23.7cm and was remarked 40FS, then great. No old 40 series discs would qualify, just new production in the proper spec range. That's one reason for the spec that requires at least 500 discs be available at retail.

[the_kid]

But at least an approved model did pass the test at least once. And some models submitted in the past few years have failed this test at least once until they got the plastic just right until it passed.

One of the problems with "rogue" discs from the past is it would be less fair for new players who might not have access to these molds except paying collector prices on eBay. I would only want to approve a 40 mold from the past that was going back into production again where discs were submitted and met the specs plus had a new mold mark like 40SC. If a 40F made it to at least 23.7cm and was remarked 40FS, then great. No old 40 series discs would qualify, just new production in the proper spec range. That's one reason for the spec that requires at least 500 discs be available at retail.

And why would they do that? SC will not have that much pull which is the reason no companies really plan on making special SC discs or even adding weight to current molds.

[cgkdisc]

I'm not sure you know what various manufacturers are planning.

[the_kid]

I'm not sure you know what various manufacturers are planning.

I bet they aren't thinking that this will catch on like wildfire but if it does I'm sure they will be more inclined to make SC discs.