PDGA Major Event: 2012 Pro/Am Disc Golf World Championships, Charlotte, NC

[AnotherSteve]

Originally Posted by bullmoosejam

I'll be bringing about 40 minis with Montana/inland northwest stamps to trade with people. Gawd I'm getting pumped up for this event!!!

I will have some Funkytown Flyers Minis as well.

[obiwanKaneobi]

Originally Posted by stratus1005

Just got home from a long, hot road trip to Charlotte. Played Eastway (long and short) and Nevin (short and Nightmare) and it was HOT!! I just want to confirm that the rounds the Pro Masters play at Nevin will be shorts and not the Nightmare. Anyone with inside info would be appreciated (pretty sure based on the scorecards I downloaded). Also, I know the worlds staff has thought of this so don't take this the wrong way, but I sure hope they have plenty of watering holes on the courses! I predicted that this worlds would fill back in Jan. and I'm going out on a limb and say this could be the hottest worlds ever.

I'm concerned about the heat as well. However as a surviver of the 1999 am worlds in Kansas city I doubt this will be the hottest worlds ever. In 1999 the temps hit 106 with a heat index of 118! The local news was calling it an emergency and pleading with residents to stay indoors, a record number of people in the surrounding areas literally passed away from the heat.

[Jeff_LaG]

Originally Posted by seeker

How the hell do I contact PDGA HQ? I need to drop out of the tournament and so other MG1 can get in the tourney but I've searched all over this site and can't find it. Why is this contact not in the links or someplace obvious?

On the top right of this page, AND EVERY OTHER SINGLE PAGE ON THE PDGA WEBSITE, is a search bar which looks like the following:

Search PDGA.com:

Underneath that is a link which is clearly marked "Contact" which takes you to a page with PDGA phone numbers and contact pages for every single PDGA committee, program and officer.

Again, considering that this Contact link is found on EVERY SINGLE PAGE ON THE PDGA WEBSITE, I cannot understand how anyone in their right mind could not find this. To me, nothing could be more obvious!

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by PDGA Worlds Website

Doubles Events

Saturday, July 14th - 9AM Mandatory Players Meeting, 10AM Tee Off

* 2012 PDGA Worlds Professional Mixed Doubles Registration List
* 2012 PDGA Worlds Amateur Mixed Doubles Registration List
* 2012 PDGA Worlds Junior Divisional Doubles Registration List

Format

The PDGA Worlds Doubles format is designed to ensure that the results accurately reflect a team performance by using both partner’s skills and abilities to contribute to the team’s score. Each partner’s tee shot is also used once on each hole on the course across the two rounds.

Alternate Shot:

* The format for two-thirds of the event is Alternate Shot played on the first six and last six holes of each round.
* The partners trade off each set of six holes for tee off between Round 1 and Round 2.
* Which partner tees off on each hole is designated on the scorecard.

Modified Best Disc:

* The format for the other third of the event is Modified Best Disc on the middle six holes of each round with only one partner teeing off on each hole.
* After a successful tee-off by the designated partner, both partners throw the next shot and the rest of the hole is completed using regular Best Disc format where the team determines which partner’s lie to throw from.
* Which partner tees off on each hole is designated on the scorecard.

Scorecards

* 2012 PDGA Worlds Professional Mixed Doubles Scorecards
* 2012 PDGA Worlds Amateur Mixed Doubles Scorecards
* 2012 PDGA Worlds Junior Divisional Doubles Scorecards

The Doubles Format rules quoted above are confusing because the verbiage sounds like Modified Best Shot, but the text says "Modified Best Disc". The linked scorecards are also incorrect.

[bruce_brakel]

Originally Posted by ERicJ

The Doubles Format rules quoted above are confusing because the verbiage sounds like Modified Best Shot, but the text says "Modified Best Disc". The linked scorecards are also incorrect.

Here is the scorecard for amateur mixed: http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/cours...les-scorecards

That format is pretty funky! But I like funky format doubles so it's all good.

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by bruce_brakel

Here is the scorecard for amateur mixed: http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/cours...les-scorecards

That format is pretty funky! But I like funky format doubles so it's all good.

The scorecards do not clear up any of the confusion as to how the middle six holes are played after the tee shot.

Going by just the scorecard you'd play Best DISC. Going by the text of the website format description you'd play Best SHOT.

[bruce_brakel]

I guess we'll have to pay attention at the players' meeting.

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by PDGA Worlds Website

Modified Best Disc:

* The format for the other third of the event is Modified Best Disc on the middle six holes of each round with only one partner teeing off on each hole.
* After a successful tee-off by the designated partner, both partners throw the next shot and the rest of the hole is completed using regular Best Disc format where the team determines which partner’s lie to throw from.

What is an unsuccessful tee-off?
And what happens in the event of an unsuccessful tee-off?

[Jeff_LaG]

The problem is the lingo used in ball golf and how it translates (or more accurately, doesn't translate) to the sport of disc golf. The way disc golfers normally do doubles is referred to as "scramble" in ball golf, and the other way is called Best Ball in ball golf.

Given the disc golf terminology "best shot" and "best disc" it's indeed unclear which of the above formats either is referring to. However, the stated goal is that "the PDGA Worlds Doubles format is designed to ensure that the results accurately reflect a team performance by using both partner’s skills and abilities to contribute to the team’s score." Furthermore, Modified Best Disc was defined as "After a successful tee-off by the designated partner, both partners throw the next shot and the rest of the hole is completed using regular Best Disc format where the team determines which partner’s lie to throw from." From the combination of these two, I think it can safely be deduced that the Modified Best Disc format refers to scramble. (after the tee shot)

Still, it would be best to get such a conformation from the TDs, and indeed, folks should also ask at the Players' meeting.

And I wish disc golf would just use the term "scramble" to avoid such confusion in the future.

[samhendley]

All withdrawals received after Saturday, July 14th at 8pm ET will only be back-filled off the Confirmed On-Site Waitlist. All players who are in Charlotte available to fill a Singles spot in Worlds, MUST see PDGA Memberships Manager, Sara Nicholson, IN PERSON at Player Check-in and fill out a Confirmed On-Site Waitlist form with their mobile number. If a spot becomes available due to a withdrawal or no-show at check-in, we will place two phone calls to the mobile number 30 minutes apart. If we get no response, we will move to the next name on the list. NOTE: You MUST be a current member AND a certified official in order to be placed on the Confirmed On-Site Waitlist.

I am assuming the on-site confirmed waitlist is first-come-first-serve based on the order you can track down Sara starting Sunday. Will the previous waitlist position matter at all? As an out-of-towner I'm trying to figure out if I need to be there at 9am Sunday to be near the front of the list.

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by Jeff_LaG

The problem is the lingo used in ball golf and how it translates (or more accurately, doesn't translate) to the sport of disc golf. The way disc golfers normally do doubles is referred to as "scramble" in ball golf, and the other way is called Best Ball in ball golf.

Given the disc golf terminology "best shot" and "best disc" it's indeed unclear which of the above formats either is referring to.

I'd be happy if the organizers just used the terms as the PDGA has defined them:
http://www.pdga.com/rules/rules-for-doubles

As an aside, without hundreds of years of history the terms "scramble" and "best ball" aren't exactly sufficiently descriptive either.

[Jeff_LaG]

Originally Posted by ERicJ

I'd be happy if the organizers just used the terms as the PDGA has defined them:
http://www.pdga.com/rules/rules-for-doubles

Nice find Eric! Man, you learn something new every day.

Given those definitions and what was previously specified, it looks like any reference to Best Disc (also known as Best Score) should be stricken from the PDGA Worlds Website, and replaced with Best Shot. (aka scramble)

Also, I suspect that "After a successful tee-off" refers to a tee shot which is safely in the field of play. An unsuccessful tee-off would be an OB shot, missed mando, etc., I'm guessing. An unsuccessful tee-off becomes successful after the appropriate penalties and resolution (often requiring relocation to a new lie, such as after a missed mando) have been applied.

For the record, I'm just making educated guesses and have not spoken with anyone involved in an official capacity with the 2012 PDGA Worlds Mixed Doubles events.

[steveganz]

Originally Posted by ERicJ

I'd be happy if the organizers just used the terms as the PDGA has defined them:
http://www.pdga.com/rules/rules-for-doubles

Done. Big Dog updated the doubles format information as well as the scorecards. http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/events

[ERicJ]

Originally Posted by steveganz

Done. Big Dog updated the doubles format information as well as the scorecards. http://www.pdga.com/2012worlds/events

Excellent. Thanks to all involved for the quick clarification and corrections.

[cgkdisc]

While this funky format is a great effort to keep both partners involved in the scoring, there might be backups on the middle holes as the round progresses because all teams have to make more throws than on the other 12 holes. If this Modified Best Shot seems to work well but backups occur, maybe for World next year we could tweak it and do one round completely with the every other hole male/female alternate shot and the second round using the Modified Best Shot format on at least 12 or perhaps all 18 so the flow in each round would likely be more consistent.

[wyattcoggin]

What is the reason for the format change this year? Since 2006 it has always been. Round one Captian choice. Round two Alternating shot.

[tatersak]

Originally Posted by samhendley

I am assuming the on-site confirmed waitlist is first-come-first-serve based on the order you can track down Sara starting Sunday. Will the previous waitlist position matter at all? As an out-of-towner I'm trying to figure out if I need to be there at 9am Sunday to be near the front of the list.

i am truly hopeing that somehow the waitlist we are on now just isnt thrown away and the order is maintained once a person gets there to charlotte to check in, no matter which day. What is the point of being on the list since early april and loosing your spot if you cant make it to sign up until monday versus someone coming in sunday. please someone explain. thanks

[bruce_brakel]

Originally Posted by wyattcoggin

What is the reason for the format change this year? Since 2006 it has always been. Round one Captian choice. Round two Alternating shot.

Kelsey and I slipped the TD a hundo. Only reason, pure and simple.

[bruce_brakel]

So Kelsey and I were curious, can the team designate who is the girl? Because, with the most recent ratings update, it's like I'm the girl!

[Spinthrift]

Originally Posted by tatersak

i am truly hopeing that somehow the waitlist we are on now just isnt thrown away and the order is maintained once a person gets there to charlotte to check in, no matter which day. What is the point of being on the list since early april and loosing your spot if you cant make it to sign up until monday versus someone coming in sunday. please someone explain. thanks

Here is the information posted on PDGA Worlds Wait List page:

As withdrawals are received, we will continue to call the first player on the waitlist for that division. We will call at least three times and if we don’t get a response we will move on to the next person on the waitlist in that division. (If you receive a call, but are no longer interested in playing, please kindly give us a call back to let us know so we can move on to the next player more quickly.) We will continue this process for all withdrawals received through Saturday July 14th at 8pm ET at which time the online waitlist will no longer be used.

All withdrawals received after Saturday, July 14th at 8pm ET will only be back-filled off the Confirmed On-Site Waitlist. All players who are in Charlotte available to fill a Singles spot in Worlds, MUST see PDGA Memberships Manager, Sara Nicholson, IN PERSON at Player Check-in and fill out a Confirmed On-Site Waitlist form with their mobile number. If a spot becomes available due to a withdrawal or no-show at check-in, we will place two phone calls to the mobile number 30 minutes apart. If we get no response, we will move to the next name on the list. NOTE: You MUST be a current member AND a certified official in order to be placed on the Confirmed On-Site Waitlist.

[JamesMiller]

Just noticed pools were posted and I was curious on how they were assigned? It seems not by rating.

[samhendley]

Looks like it ended up being the top 42 players by rating (down to 960) all went into K and then everyone else was evenly distributed.

Pool	K	L	M	N
Players	72	72	72	67
Average	959.75	926.60	920.56	924.07
Min	930	879	825	866
Max	997	959	957	957
StdDev	18.22	20.13	24.28	19.94

Group N has some spots open but I don't believe any of the waitlist players (that were near me anyways) had very high ratings. I think everyone is going to wish they were in K to see how they compare to the best players but such is life. Can people trade amongst themselves?

[samhendley]

Actually I take it back, there must have been something else at play since there were no players in K less than 930. I think they actually must have "binned" players by rating and then done it randomly inside those groups.

	K	L	M	N
Total	72	72	72	67
960+	42	0	0	0
930+	30	34	30	30
900+	0	32	31	29
800+	0	6	11	8

[samhendley]

Last update on this. Found they actually put top 5 players under 960 in L, bottom 5 ratings in M and then went straight down by ranking order putting one player per division until full (like dealing cards). Only kinks are with players who were added in last update so this must have been calculated before todays registration update.

[bgwvdave]

I can tell you i am ****** that i got put in the E pool of pro masters. i am actually mad at this decision. i have made almost 3 times the amount of money this year playing Pro Masters than anyone else in my division in that pool. i am not a great golfer but i feel my game is good enough/better than a lot of the people in the D pool. 72 of 96 pro masters in the D pool and 24 in the E pool. My player rating is better than 18 players in the D pool but there i am in E. oh and look at everyone from Charlotte in the D pool regardless of player rating money etc.

I am sure i am coming off like a complete egomaniac but honestly at this point i don't care. this is complete and utter BS!

[bgwvdave]

oh yeah and believe me i saw all the Am's in the D pool as well. Dudes haven't even played a professional round in their life and they are in the D pool. How in the world does the PDGA let something like this happen??????????????

[samhendley]

Originally Posted by bgwvdave

I can tell you i am ****** that i got put in the E pool of pro masters. i am actually mad at this decision. i have made almost 3 times the amount of money this year playing Pro Masters than anyone else in my division in that pool. i am not a great golfer but i feel my game is good enough/better than a lot of the people in the D pool. 72 of 96 pro masters in the D pool and 24 in the E pool. My player rating is better than 18 players in the D pool but there i am in E. oh and look at everyone from Charlotte in the D pool regardless of player rating money etc.

I am sure i am coming off like a complete egomaniac but honestly at this point i don't care. this is complete and utter BS!

I did the same analysis on the Open Masters and they look like they sorted by rating and put the top 50 in D. Then when every other one into D and E. There are no kinks so no one has been moved from D to E (or vice-versa). Same with the advanced men, they appear to have 100% done it by the ratings.

[bgwvdave]

i don't aggree with but can live with every other one if you are correct. Then i am a victim of luck of the draw. still sucks the big one but what can i do. go compete and hope to make it in D after the shuffle.

[BDHYYZ]

Looks like Kenny chose the safer money bet and managed to switch over to MPM at the last minute where he will have another battle with Mr Schultz. Which one will add a 1st MPM Worlds title to their resume? All I can say is good luck to all the other MPM contenders!: eek:

[cgkdisc]

bgwvdave - Pools for Open and Master are relatively meaningless this year because they change every day. There's no "big shuffle" for those pools because you do tee times every other day. You'll be in the big DE tee time pool on Wednesday no matter what. If you shoot well enough, you'll automatically be in the D pool on Thursday then back in the giant DE tee time pool Friday. Good luck.