Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs - Page 83

mf100forever · Sep 23 2004, 02:48 AM

Hi Dave,
except the discs you have mentioned above, which other discs are planned to be released during the next two month?

There was a run of Champion Whippets at the end of last year, how many discs did you produce, I have heard/read about figures between 500 and 10000, what is correct?

davei · Sep 23 2004, 07:17 AM

mf100, the only disc I can think we might release in the next two months would be the Pro Viking. If my memory is right, the number on the Champion Whippets would have been around 4000.

hawkgammon · Sep 23 2004, 11:37 PM

Howdy Dave,

Another Aviar question. I know you have a driver and a putter mold. Is the driver mold (KC/JK etc.) designed to fly further than the putter mold (DX/Stiffy/Champ), or barring operator error should they travel the same distance, on more or less the same line? I have an impression that the driver molds are more controllable over distance, but that could simply be in my head/technique.

Thanks.

Sep 24 2004, 02:20 AM

Isn't the JK a putter mold?

davei · Sep 24 2004, 10:41 AM

Hawk, the driver mold was designed to be very stable at high speeds and is more reliable into the wind. The putter mold has a slight turn at high speeds. The putter mold is better at short ranges, IMO, and the driver is better at long approaches and short drives. The distance is similar between the two.

davei · Sep 24 2004, 10:43 AM

Robj, the JK is the driver mold.

Sep 24 2004, 11:05 AM

Okay, it is a bit confusing though because that means I putt with a driver

Is the difference between the molds simply the JK and KC Aviars have a big bead making them more stable / high speed turn resistant? I feel like the P&A has the most glide and therefore the most distance when thrown with hyzer to compensate for being less stable. Do you find the P&A has more glide or might it have more to do with my lid-like throwing technique?

davei · Sep 24 2004, 01:24 PM

robj, the driver is shaped slightly different too. Theoretically, the putter may have a little more glide, but slightly less speed. Personally, I don't see much difference except the flight characteristic.

Sep 24 2004, 01:46 PM

Quote:

robj, the JK Aviars won't have an edition for the next run. They will just say JK Aviar. The same goes for the KC Rocs and KC Aviars.

Dave, is that new run of JK Aviars anywhere near being started? Also, do you think many will be made that are blue?

davei · Sep 24 2004, 02:08 PM

Robj, no where near the next run. No plans for blue at this time.

cromwell · Sep 24 2004, 02:54 PM

hey dave, on the topic of the aviar-x's, did they change the plastic in them anytime in the past run or two? Ive felt two different types of aviar-x's, soft and grippy like I always knew them to be and more firm ones that didnt have much "flop" to them. Were those standard deviations off the line or were they two different runs? Stamps were identical.

Plankeye · Sep 25 2004, 09:00 AM

The First run of 4x JK aviars were made incorrectly. The plastic was too stiff and when it would hit the basket it would get knicked up really badly.

So they fixed the mixture, and made them softer like the 3x JK Aviars.

Dunno about the KC Aviars

mikeP · Sep 25 2004, 12:49 PM

Dave,

I just got one of the new Pro Leopards with the improved plastic mixture and I love it! The plastic is much closer to Champion in terms of durability while still retaining some of the grippiness and flight characteristics of the original mixture. Thanks Dave! Now I just need an Orc in this plastic...

For anyone who did not like the first Pro plastic mix, you definitely need to check out the tweaked version, its considerably stiffer and almost as durable as Champion. It is very similar to the "Pro line" plastic of Leopards, etc. that was used immediately after CE was discontinued. I am amazed at how quick Dave & friends respond to issues of consumer demand and quality control when introducing new innovations.

20460chase · Sep 25 2004, 06:49 PM

Dave,would you say the newer run of Pro Orcs with added candy have more "waxy" or "greasy" feel than the first runs?

davei · Sep 27 2004, 09:24 AM

Chase, if you mean they are less grippy than the originals, yes. They are still more grippy than Champion, IMO.

20460chase · Sep 27 2004, 11:44 AM

Yes sir I agree.I just think that the newer Pro Orcs have a more Waxy feel to them and was actually trying to find out if those were the new runs or just a freak 1st run.i think these newer Orcs feel great and seem to have less give in the dome.I really didnt like the 1st runs,they felt to domey and had alot of give in the middle.

cromwell · Sep 27 2004, 11:51 AM

i think that give in the dome was part of what made them so undurable too.

dave, is there any differentiation on the stamp or anywhere else to let us know quickly whether we're looking at first-run pro line discs or newer runs with candy mixed in? thanks

20460chase · Sep 27 2004, 11:54 AM

You should easily be able to tell.The new Orcs have a waxy type feel to them and just feel more like a Orc,imo.

Sep 27 2004, 11:56 AM

Dave, I recently picked up a cool roc, and was wondering what the story on it is. I think it might be a first run. It is yellow-green, 173, and in the shape of the new classic roc. It has a discovering the world stamp of the roc standing near a basket. Is this the first roc?

jaymo · Sep 27 2004, 05:40 PM

Hey these blue Orcs that everyone is always talking about, the Opaque blue ones that Schweb uses... how opaque are we talking here? I have a blue 175 Champ Orc, flat top, opaque, with a rainbow stamp. Were there others like this, or is this it??? is there a pic anywhere?

thanks, anyone who knows what I am talking about...

20460chase · Sep 27 2004, 05:44 PM

They are totally opaque.

jaymo · Sep 28 2004, 02:02 AM

Quote:

They are totally opaque.

what does this mean exactly... you can not see anything through them... or you can see somethings but not clearly??? forget the Orc, just in a purely grammatical sense, what does this mean "opaque"

Blarg · Sep 28 2004, 02:13 AM

It literally means 'not letting light pass through.'
As an example, dx plastic is pretty much opaque.

jaymo · Sep 28 2004, 02:35 AM

sweet... well then... I guess it's not as Opaque as the old CE stuff. so it's probably not the stuff then...

ohhh well it's still a good disc!

davei · Sep 28 2004, 07:38 AM

Rendroc, that is one of the original stamps. I would assume it is an original Roc. It should have a double ring on the bottom and they were usually fairly stiff. There was an exception in stiffness. A brownish run and a dull yellow. It is probably not a first run. They were wings and rings, and I believe orange.

tafe · Sep 28 2004, 10:20 AM

I also recently acquired an old disc and am in need of some info.
It is a purple beadless Aviar. It has a patent #. It has what I'm calling a "nipple" and one ring on the underside. There may be a faint second ring, but not likely. It weighs 176 on my scale and has a blue "grid" hotstamp.
Thank you for your time and knowledge.

davei · Sep 28 2004, 12:28 PM

tafe, it is a regular run original Aviar, before we put beads on and separated into Putt and Approach and drivers. If it is what I think, it is very stifff. It is also collectable.

primetime · Sep 29 2004, 06:59 AM

Dave, Will Innova ever make a long range driver that has a high speed turn of -1? For example like an X-Xpress?

I like the Stingrays but don't get the distance that I want out of them.

Here's to hoping!

PT Woods
# 20431

vwkeepontruckin · Sep 29 2004, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Dave, Will Innova ever make a long range driver that has a high speed turn of -1? For example like an X-Xpress?

I like the Stingrays but don't get the distance that I want out of them.

Here's to hoping!

PT Woods
# 20431

Well...if you like the X-Xpress...just stick with it.

hawkgammon · Sep 29 2004, 10:42 AM

Dave,

Are the new Pro Aviars the driver mold or the putter mold? They look like drivers to me.

Thanks.

Sep 23 2004, 02:48 AM	#2461
mf100forever PDGA Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lulea Sweden Posts: 752	Re: Question for Dave D Hi Dave, except the discs you have mentioned above, which other discs are planned to be released during the next two month? There was a run of Champion Whippets at the end of last year, how many discs did you produce, I have heard/read about figures between 500 and 10000, what is correct? __________________ (Disc)-gracefully yours, MF100forever # 3418 http://www.discgolfsweden.se/english/index.aspx

Sep 23 2004, 07:17 AM	#2462
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D mf100, the only disc I can think we might release in the next two months would be the Pro Viking. If my memory is right, the number on the Champion Whippets would have been around 4000. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Sep 23 2004, 11:37 PM	#2463
hawkgammon Account Suspended Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Belgium Posts: 3,333	Re: Question for Dave D Howdy Dave, Another Aviar question. I know you have a driver and a putter mold. Is the driver mold (KC/JK etc.) designed to fly further than the putter mold (DX/Stiffy/Champ), or barring operator error should they travel the same distance, on more or less the same line? I have an impression that the driver molds are more controllable over distance, but that could simply be in my head/technique. Thanks.

Sep 24 2004, 02:20 AM	#2464
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Question for Dave D Isn't the JK a putter mold?

Sep 24 2004, 10:41 AM	#2465
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D Hawk, the driver mold was designed to be very stable at high speeds and is more reliable into the wind. The putter mold has a slight turn at high speeds. The putter mold is better at short ranges, IMO, and the driver is better at long approaches and short drives. The distance is similar between the two. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Sep 24 2004, 10:43 AM	#2466
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D Robj, the JK is the driver mold. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Sep 24 2004, 11:05 AM	#2467
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Question for Dave D Okay, it is a bit confusing though because that means I putt with a driver Is the difference between the molds simply the JK and KC Aviars have a big bead making them more stable / high speed turn resistant? I feel like the P&A has the most glide and therefore the most distance when thrown with hyzer to compensate for being less stable. Do you find the P&A has more glide or might it have more to do with my lid-like throwing technique?

Sep 24 2004, 01:24 PM	#2468
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D robj, the driver is shaped slightly different too. Theoretically, the putter may have a little more glide, but slightly less speed. Personally, I don't see much difference except the flight characteristic. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Sep 24 2004, 02:08 PM	#2470
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D Robj, no where near the next run. No plans for blue at this time. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Sep 24 2004, 02:54 PM	#2471
cromwell Community Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 142	Re: Question for Dave D hey dave, on the topic of the aviar-x's, did they change the plastic in them anytime in the past run or two? Ive felt two different types of aviar-x's, soft and grippy like I always knew them to be and more firm ones that didnt have much "flop" to them. Were those standard deviations off the line or were they two different runs? Stamps were identical.

Sep 25 2004, 09:00 AM	#2472
Plankeye PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Winston Salem, NC Posts: 1,395	Re: Question for Dave D The First run of 4x JK aviars were made incorrectly. The plastic was too stiff and when it would hit the basket it would get knicked up really badly. So they fixed the mixture, and made them softer like the 3x JK Aviars. Dunno about the KC Aviars

Sep 25 2004, 12:49 PM	#2473
mikeP Community Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 1,506	Re: Question for Dave D Dave, I just got one of the new Pro Leopards with the improved plastic mixture and I love it! The plastic is much closer to Champion in terms of durability while still retaining some of the grippiness and flight characteristics of the original mixture. Thanks Dave! Now I just need an Orc in this plastic... For anyone who did not like the first Pro plastic mix, you definitely need to check out the tweaked version, its considerably stiffer and almost as durable as Champion. It is very similar to the "Pro line" plastic of Leopards, etc. that was used immediately after CE was discontinued. I am amazed at how quick Dave & friends respond to issues of consumer demand and quality control when introducing new innovations.

Sep 25 2004, 06:49 PM	#2474
20460chase PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: 2630 16th St. Moline IL Posts: 2,086	Re: Question for Dave D Dave,would you say the newer run of Pro Orcs with added candy have more "waxy" or "greasy" feel than the first runs? __________________ www.ironliondgs.com www.iowaDG.com "I dont come to bow, I come to conquer"- Bob Marley

Sep 27 2004, 09:24 AM	#2475
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D Chase, if you mean they are less grippy than the originals, yes. They are still more grippy than Champion, IMO. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Sep 27 2004, 11:44 AM	#2476
20460chase PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: 2630 16th St. Moline IL Posts: 2,086	Re: Question for Dave D Yes sir I agree.I just think that the newer Pro Orcs have a more Waxy feel to them and was actually trying to find out if those were the new runs or just a freak 1st run.i think these newer Orcs feel great and seem to have less give in the dome.I really didnt like the 1st runs,they felt to domey and had alot of give in the middle. __________________ www.ironliondgs.com www.iowaDG.com "I dont come to bow, I come to conquer"- Bob Marley

Sep 27 2004, 11:51 AM	#2477
cromwell Community Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 142	Re: Question for Dave D i think that give in the dome was part of what made them so undurable too. dave, is there any differentiation on the stamp or anywhere else to let us know quickly whether we're looking at first-run pro line discs or newer runs with candy mixed in? thanks

Sep 27 2004, 11:54 AM	#2478
20460chase PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: 2630 16th St. Moline IL Posts: 2,086	Re: Question for Dave D You should easily be able to tell.The new Orcs have a waxy type feel to them and just feel more like a Orc,imo. __________________ www.ironliondgs.com www.iowaDG.com "I dont come to bow, I come to conquer"- Bob Marley

Sep 27 2004, 11:56 AM	#2479
Guest Posts: n/a	Question for Dave D Dave, I recently picked up a cool roc, and was wondering what the story on it is. I think it might be a first run. It is yellow-green, 173, and in the shape of the new classic roc. It has a discovering the world stamp of the roc standing near a basket. Is this the first roc?

Sep 27 2004, 05:40 PM	#2480
jaymo Membership Expired Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 458	Re: Question for Dave D Hey these blue Orcs that everyone is always talking about, the Opaque blue ones that Schweb uses... how opaque are we talking here? I have a blue 175 Champ Orc, flat top, opaque, with a rainbow stamp. Were there others like this, or is this it??? is there a pic anywhere? thanks, anyone who knows what I am talking about... __________________ You won't eat our meat, but you GLUUUUE with our feet.

Sep 27 2004, 05:44 PM	#2481
20460chase PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: 2630 16th St. Moline IL Posts: 2,086	Re: Question for Dave D They are totally opaque. __________________ www.ironliondgs.com www.iowaDG.com "I dont come to bow, I come to conquer"- Bob Marley

Sep 28 2004, 02:13 AM	#2483
Blarg Community Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 511	Re: Question for Dave D It literally means 'not letting light pass through.' As an example, dx plastic is pretty much opaque.

Sep 28 2004, 02:35 AM	#2484
jaymo Membership Expired Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 458	Re: Question for Dave D sweet... well then... I guess it's not as Opaque as the old CE stuff. so it's probably not the stuff then... ohhh well it's still a good disc! __________________ You won't eat our meat, but you GLUUUUE with our feet.

Sep 28 2004, 07:38 AM	#2485
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D Rendroc, that is one of the original stamps. I would assume it is an original Roc. It should have a double ring on the bottom and they were usually fairly stiff. There was an exception in stiffness. A brownish run and a dull yellow. It is probably not a first run. They were wings and rings, and I believe orange. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Sep 28 2004, 10:20 AM	#2486
tafe PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The card behind you and coming up STRONG! Posts: 949	Re: Question for Dave D I also recently acquired an old disc and am in need of some info. It is a purple beadless Aviar. It has a patent #. It has what I'm calling a "nipple" and one ring on the underside. There may be a faint second ring, but not likely. It weighs 176 on my scale and has a blue "grid" hotstamp. Thank you for your time and knowledge. __________________ "I wasn't born with enough middle fingers." Marilyn Manson

Sep 28 2004, 12:28 PM	#2487
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D tafe, it is a regular run original Aviar, before we put beads on and separated into Putt and Approach and drivers. If it is what I think, it is very stifff. It is also collectable. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Sep 29 2004, 06:59 AM	#2488
primetime Membership Expired Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Elk Point, SD Posts: 203	Re: Question for Dave D Dave, Will Innova ever make a long range driver that has a high speed turn of -1? For example like an X-Xpress? I like the Stingrays but don't get the distance that I want out of them. Here's to hoping! PT Woods # 20431

Sep 29 2004, 10:42 AM	#2490
hawkgammon Account Suspended Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Belgium Posts: 3,333	Re: Question for Dave D Dave, Are the new Pro Aviars the driver mold or the putter mold? They look like drivers to me. Thanks.

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