Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

Dave, when you say the best MTA throws spiral down do you mean one circle or several? My very best times (mid 12's) sort of do a circle at a slight anhyzer to almost flat angle and do this very slowly -- first penetrating hyzer to flat to slight anhyzer and then stalling and then hanging/hovering and circling on their way back down and eating up time. But that is with a Condor. The MTA Roc my MTA partner has is one he doesn't really care for (he used to throw exclusively front door) and it has a few dog tooth marks in it ) It usually knifes down for me but I'll try to get it to level off better. I can see how it has the potential to get a great time. But if a Classic Roc is more tricky like a FB, then I' d love to try one sometime...

How would you compare the MTA Roc vs. a super light Classic Roc? It sounds like the MTA Roc is easier to throw and get decent times with, but that the Classic Roc though more difficult has a much higher potential for record times. Does the Classic Roc have more dome and float? Bill -- if you want to sell yours please email me.

I can throw light plastic fairly well -- having come to disc golf rather recently. My biggest problem is trying to get the nose down and throw anyhzers with drivers -- my muscle memory seems to think throwing with my hand higher than my elbow is a big no-no. With lids, I could go from hyzer to flat to anhyzer simply by changing my wrist angle but always keeping my forearm parallel to the ground. That seems to translate very well for me with MTA. But I am still struggling to get 'all' of me into my drives. So I guess for me I am sort of backwards from a lot of golfers who can throw better backhands and forehands with heavy golf drivers... I only seem to be able to throw golf drivers decently with hyzer.

I was working on anyhzers today on a soccer field and kept getting the nose up and throwing too high. I am also used to throwing with the disc a few feet away from my chest like you have to in Ultimate to get a throw around the defender who is marking you. Thanks Dave for entertaining MTA and throwing technique talk on your thread. It's a privilege to hear your feedback.

[davei]

The spiral is mainly from the Classic. It may go around as much as twice. It is harder to throw cleanly, but is lighter and floats more. The other discs have plenty of lift, but they are heavier. As for your throw: you do want your elbow up and your wrinst tilted down. A nose down tilt of the disc is necessary to get the disc to plane out high. Having your elbow up high to start will cause it to drop through the throw and help to pull the nose down too. You can start with your elbow as high as your face. If you start your snap with your elbow low, you can induce nose up without even trying.

Thanks Dave, I may be beginning to see what I need to do. If I lead with my elbow high, then when the hit is occuring is my forearm hinging at the elbow and striking through at an angle of about 10 or 11 oclock (while maintaining wrist down like in a handshake)? I think my muscle memory wants to throw at 9 or 8 oclock like if I am throwing something very understable and which pulls its own nose down...

Back on thread -- any update on the 20th anniversary Aviars? Will they be P &A's, Champions, CFR or ...?

[davei]

robj, that's a good question. I haven't seen the art yet, and I think I need to remind someone. My preference is to do it on Pro Aviars. Black Gold and White.

I have a couple 140's or so at the house, unless I gave them away already. I found them at Mozola course in houston, on hole 6 in the drink. Had I known, had I known

Dave
I am wondering if you could tell me what happened to the pro line TL's that were supposed to be out this July? Sun King discs had them available for pre-order on their website and now indicate that production has been postponed with no future date for production set.

I got some high 11's today with a Condor without much wind -- and borrowed an MTA Roc but have to get used to it -- it definitely requires a lot more hyzer than a Condor -- almost as much as a FB.

The pro Aviar sounds like a good choice for the 20th anniversary stamp, unless you make a limited edition number of them in *all* Aviar molds

Were any premi Aviars ever made at about 100 grams? Would that make a good MTA disc?

[rickb]

Dave or anyone out there with this information.

I've seen yet another "rare" disc, a 1st run/pre 1st run GLOW CE Valkyrie show up on ebay recently. Question is, is this thing for real? I know 1st runs and the colors and such have been discussed often but this is a new claim to a "limited pre 1st run glow CE Valkyrie".

Was the CE Valkyrie ever ran in glow plastic and if so were they released before the 1st runs?

Thanks as always.

[dannyreeves]

This is an e-mail I got from My-Hero about the disc you are talking about:

This exact disc was originally the ADGA's. It was given to us for always being in the top 3 every year (Iccebowl's) when Kelly Hicks was our fearless leader. We raffled it off. I cant for the life of me remember who won it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...685509703&rd=1

JM

[davei]

colnago, production was complete. We just havent hotstamped them.

[davei]

robj, light aviars are about 105, but don't make good MTA discs

[davei]

rickb, I don't think so. We were having a hard enough time just running them in regular candy.

[davei]

rickb, I should say that it might very well be a glow CE Valk, but not likely to be a "first run".

[veganray]

I have a couple of 95g Aviars and an 89g Magnet, but have never thought to try them for MTA. I think I'll do that this afternoon & report back.

Dave, Fred Salaz and I were MTA'ing Sunday and he threw a 14.47 with an Orange Condor. The wind was strong and MTA friendly. Are you planning on MTA'ing in San Diego this weekend?

[davei]

robj, no I wasn't. Is the masters this coming weekend?

Dave, I think so. Here is a link:

World Masters and Junior Overall Flying Disc Championships

Sponsored by Discovering the World and the San Diego FreeFlyers, the tournament will take place July 12 through the 16, Monday through Friday.

http://eworldcreations.biz/2004Maste...ges/header.jpg

[veganray]

Neither the Magnet nor the Aviars wanted to plane out nicely, no matter at what angle I hucked them. I'll stick with the yellow Condor (unless Lazslo makes me throw a Fastback!)

[cantrell]

Dave,
Sorry if this has been asked already but I just noticed that the stability and fade ratings for your discs have changed on the web site. What is the reason?

Well the Roc has the same fade as the Banchee...yeah, I can believe that!


By the way, this is the last post before the new millenium. Happy post 1999!!

[davei]

We widened the scale to help differentiate between discs with respect to turnover and fade. All the discs are being reviewed to align their ratings to the new system. It won't be perfect, but it should be better.

[mikeP]

I checked out the new ratings, and yes, they are the best I've seen yet. I throw the Banshee, and though it has a whole lot of resistance to high speed turn, it does not have excessive fade, and if the Firebird is 4, then a 3 it is. I think that the 3 is right on as far as the Roc's low speed fade as well, I just think it should have a -1 in high speed turn since it is not the same in that category as a Banshee (or Firebird, or Monster) in terms of high speed stability. I think that all the ratings for the midranges assume a 300'+ shot and all the distance driver ratings assume a 400'+ shot. If you cannot get them out that far, then the ratings will not be the same for you. For example, if you put enough height on a new 180g Roc for it to go well over 300' without turning, it will fade +3, and if you only throw an Orc 350' it will most likely be a 0 in high speed stability rather than a -1.

[davei]

Yes, the long range drivers do assume a 400 ft throw. The mid range assume a 330. Putt and Approach assume 250-280.

[gokayaksteven]

great changes to the charts. my only suggestion would be to the dx beast -- turn -.5 [not -2]


great job dave

[mikeP]

Dave,

I noticed on the new disc charts that the Panther and the Cobra are not included in the Champion line. Does this mean that they have been discontinued?

[mikeP]

I'm sure you guys have someone else in charge of this, but I'll just let you know anyway that there are a couple of typo's on the new Pro Line chart.

Pro Chart--Orc listed as 1 for high speed turn instead of -1.
Cobra and KC Roc max weight listed as 175g

Hey Dave, I just got a few new Orcs and was really disapointed to find the plastic is a lot softer and gummier and they seem to be significantly less stable than the first couple of stiffer Orcs that I got. Were my first few Orcs just flukes or was this an intentional change? The stiffer ones were perfect for me and I'm very distressed that I may not be able to get more. I have one stiff one left and it's getting pretty beat but it's still more stable than the new ones I got. These are all max weight by the way so it's not a weight difference. Please make some more stiff Orcs.

[hawkgammon]

Dave,

A local store has some discs with KC Pro and Champion TeeBird stamps, but the bottom writing next to the weight says TL. Which is more likely...that they are misstamped TL's, or regular TeeBirds that are incorrectly marked? One of them also says TB? Thanks.

Well the best way to tell would be to look at the wing. The wing of the TL is smooth while the T has a little notch/bead/ledge on the tip of the wing. I would guess they are mismarked.

[hawkgammon]

Graham,

I believe you had the clue. The discs are misstamped based on your info. The disc marked TL with the Champion Stamp has no lip/bead like my Pro Teebird. It must be a real TL.