Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[jmo]

CANDY 86?

CANDY Gremlins again? why not ?

Hey Dave,

I was MTA'ing today (w/ MTA-weight Condors) and have a question for you. Do you find the best back door times generally are caught to the right from where you release or to the right *and* behind you? What I am trying to figure out is if it is better to throw with a trajectory more straight up (catch is behind and to the right) or up and out (catch is usually to the right side for RHBH) -- or does it really just depend a lot on catching a good breeze with the right throw? Any comments will be appreciated.

[davei]

robj, backdoor MTA can be done several ways, so I can't really answer your question. I personally throw at around 10 to11 o'clock, and my best throws either land in front and to the right of me, or spiral down in a circle. My 14 sec+ time (Classic Roc) was a spiral shot. With a Condor or Lynx, I was able to throw 10 sec+ without moving much at all. With a disc like the Condor, you need to find the domiest possible. Flight characteristic is less important than float.

Thanks Dave. I'll keep experimenting. I'm still trying to find 13 seconds -- and Condors seem to work best for me. If you ever re-make the Classic Roc at MTA weight, please let me know.

[xterramatt]

has anyone videotaped an MTA contest? I haven't been to one, and would love to learn the secrets of throwing for them. Never play much with the MTA discs. Wonder what a superlight Shark would do if used... they are floaty discs.

The 139g Condors work well (or are they 129g?), they penetrate wind nicely going up, and then they float fairly well from the apex down. With their rounded edge they are fairly easy to legally catch too (one handed catch required for MTA). According to Dave, the super light (103g) Classic Rocs are difficult to throw but have the best potential to break the MTA world record. unfortunately however they are no longer made

MTA is an incredible blast when you get two or more people with stopwatches out there in a decent wind.

[davei]

Matt, a superlight Shark will work well if you know how to throw it. It needs to weigh around 112 gms or less.

[flynvegas]

Dave,
What's the advantage of using say a Condor, Roc, Lynx, over an old Whamo FB? When I was doing MTA I used a FB15, think that was the mold number. It was brown with the Coppertone girl stamp. Thx

[veganray]

I had been practicing w/ Condors all spring & was dialed in for 12.5+ seconds under normal conditions. Went to VA States with a reasonable expectation of qualifying for semis or even finals. But... TD wouldn't let me use my discs. "Fastbacks only" is Laszlo's MTA policy. Needless to say, my confidence was shot & I got the big old NO CATCH.

flynvegas, I haven't been MTA'ing that long, but I would say that the problem with a Fastback is it is far more fickle than a Condor or Lynx, especially if there is a lot of wind. Plus, I think the Condor is a better MTA disc. A Fastback might have an advantage in no wind conditions...

Dave, how possible is it to find a Shark at only 112g? Do discs like the Shark and Classic Roc sometimes get made that light and it is just a matter of trying to find them -- or are batches made at those light weights?

I had been practicing w/ Condors all spring & was dialed in for 12.5+ seconds under normal conditions. Went to VA States with a reasonable expectation of qualifying for semis or even finals. But... TD wouldn't let me use my discs. "Fastbacks only" is Laszlo's MTA policy. Needless to say, my confidence was shot & I got the big old NO CATCH.

I wonder if Whamo was a sponsor and they insisted on th FB only rule? I don't know why a TD would care -- if he felt he was using the best MTA disc available why worry what other people use?

do you know what kind of time ended up winning? what were wind conditions like? (sorry Dave, I am not trying to hijack your thread, but I do love MTA talk )

[peter_h]

Wow, this suddenly turned into a MTA thread. Now that was a bit unexpected...

I would say that a premium Lynx or Condor will be safer to get you to say around 9-11s, with a good chance on 12-13s if you're good at it. But a Fastback (molds FB6 and FB3 are generally considered to be the best flyers) will probably give you a better chance at the monster times up in the 14-16s range. Especially in low/no wind situations. I personally always use a premium Lynx unless there is almost no wind at all. A Fastback is hard to handle in heavy winds.

For those unfamiliar with the Self Caught Flight events MTA and TRC, I've written a basic tutorial in the area46 flying disc academy. area46...the frisbee/flying disc zone check "scf" under "disc academy"

[mikeP]

Dave, have you guys ever considered running the floating plastic in different molds? Water seems to be popping up on more courses these days and a floating all-purpose type disc would be really helpful.

I doubt that this post of mine on 4/20/04 had any influence on the development of the Hydra, but I can tell my friends it did, can't I? Anyway, thanks for the Hydra, it is great and exactly what I have been looking for.

[flynvegas]

Can you give flight description? Thx

[mikeP]

The Hydra is a small diameter disc that has a very spider-like top with a bottom that looks like a bit like a Shark, except without the straight part at the very bottom, or a completely beadless Roc, only the wing is less rounded and more angular. It flies a lot like a spider, but is less stable. It floats in the air a bit more than the spider too and is a little slower as well it seems.

[davei]

flyn, mainly the advantage is consistent penetration. For record times, the fastback is still as good as it ever was, it is just harder to get consistent high times. A real good thrower will get consistent 9 seconds with the fastback and 10 sec with a Lynx (Condor) or Roc.

[veganray]

I wonder if Whamo was a sponsor and they insisted on th FB only rule? I don't know why a TD would care -- if he felt he was using the best MTA disc available why worry what other people use?

do you know what kind of time ended up winning? what were wind conditions like?

VA States is not a corporate-sponsored event, but the powers that be are so old school that "modern" SCF discs are disallowed. (I even got a couple of negative ractions for installing permanent baskets at the course over the last 2 years.) I don't remember specifically (it was in April), but I think the best toss was 13.5-ish. Wind was light, but steady.

[davei]

Robj, superlight Sharks do happen, but they are rare. It would be a fluke to come up with one. On the other hand, we do make superlight MTA Rocs (big mold) all the time.

Dave

What weights are you talking about when you say super light Rocs are made all the time? Lighter than 150? If so how do I get any? The lightest ones I see are 150 class.

[davei]

scoob, I believe the MTA Rocs are about 113 gms. Discovering the World or Wrightlife mail order houses carry them I believe.

Dave, I have thrown an MTA Roc -- it pentetrated wind nicely though the edge was a little sharp for the catch on throws that didn't float down. I think I like the Condor better. However, an MTA weight Classic Roc would be something I'd love to see available again, given the potential it has (though I guess it is difficult to throw). Were many under 110 grams made, and when did you stop making them? When you compete in MTA do you use a Classic Roc for light winds and a Condor for strong? Or do you get a good time in with a Condor and then pull out a 103g Classic Roc and go for a big time?

Is the Roc/Condor/Lynx legal for accuracy?

I know the Zephyr is but it isn't beveled edge..

[exczar]

I was thinking that Dave meant the premium weight Classic Roc for SCF. I have one, and if the winds are too strong for my FB3, it works just fine.

I haven't tried a premium weight beveled edge Roc for SCF; I've never even seen one.

[davei]

robj, because I don't practice at all anymore, I would use the Lynx or condor period. They are slow and easy to throw and I would expect to be able to get 10 sec plus on a regular basis. The Classic Rocs went down to 95 gms, I believe. The Classic Roc is the hardest to throw and catch without practice. The Lynx/Condor is the easiest to throw and catch. 138 gms for a light Condor. 113 gms for a light Roc. The best thing about a Classic is the spiraling flight is easier to do, than with the others. A fastback is the easiest to catch, but definitely takes practice to get consistent times.

[davei]

greg, that is controlled by WFDF. World Flying Disc Federation. I dont know offhand.

[peter_h]

Is the Roc/Condor/Lynx legal for accuracy?
I know the Zephyr is but it isn't beveled edge..

Nope, sorry, as you say they have a beveled edge, which disqualifies them from the "vintage" class specifications.

For a list of all approved discs check http://www.wfdf.org/rules/rules_approved_discs.htm all discs that have a number listed in the Max Vintage Weight column is legal for both accuracy and discathon up to the listed weight.

Hmmm, checking the list I just noticed that old 40-mold midnight flyers are legal up to 157.5g, and 100-molds up to 166.8g, interesting... Maybe I should check my old stored disc boxes, or start searching ebay...

[flynvegas]

I liked the Innova Apple for Accuracy.

Are these MTA discs the same as the "premi" discs that innova puts out?

[davei]

rocco, yes, premium usually refers to unweighted plastic.

[davei]

robj, I probably should have mentioned the usefulness of cross training in disc sports. Often times one sport disc players such as golfers learn to throw one kind of plastic such as a golf disc that tends to mask or forgive small throwing errors. Training with very light plastic can quickly reveal these errors and force concentration on better technique. Light plastic throwing requires much "cleaner" technique with respect to off axis torque, quick release, release angles, and rhythm. Sidearm is even more dramatic than backhand. It can be a fun way to improve your golf game by learning the nuances of throwing technique.