Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

discin, if you are asking me, yes the Zephyr and Apple were unweighted packaged discs. Although we don't have packages any more, the discs are still available except the Apple.

Dave,

I have several beadless, patent pending Aviars , circa 1958-1986, that are in the 105-119g weight range. (Wish I still had the original boxes they came in too. ) Were Aviars from that period made of unweighted plastic?

As always, thanks for taking the time to reply.

[idahojon]

1958?

[dannyreeves]

Dave, I have a Roc question for you. Is there only 1 Rancho mold? The different runs of KC's are different and I was just wondering if that was a mold change or just the way that the different plastic cools. Thanks.

1958?

Oops. Make that !985.

[vwkeepontruckin]

Dave,

I have several beadless, patent pending Aviars , circa 1958-1986, that are in the 105-119g weight range. (Wish I still had the original boxes they came in too. ) Were Aviars from that period made of unweighted plastic?

As always, thanks for taking the time to reply.

What do you guys mean by "Unweighted"?

There is a weighting agent added to the plastic allowing heavier discs to be made. If you have a disc mold, the discs that are produced are going to weigh "X" grams everytime (give or take a couple grams), because the same amount of plastic is going to fit into that mold. So to add weight and keep the disc the same size an "agent" is mixed in that has a heavier density than the plain plastic.

I hope thats clear as mud.

Long story short...unweighted discs don't have the aforementioned weighting "agent"

[vwkeepontruckin]

There is a weighting agent added to the plastic allowing heavier discs to be made. If you have a disc mold, the discs that are produced are going to weigh "X" grams everytime (give or take a couple grams), because the same amount of plastic is going to fit into that mold. So to add weight and keep the disc the same size an "agent" is mixed in that has a heavier density than the plain plastic.

I hope thats clear as mud.

I always wondered how heavier discs were made w/o affecting the mold. Very insightful, thanks!!

[flynvegas]

In the late 80's they gave out light weight "Premium" Aviars in the players package. These weighed about 100g. Innova used to have a old school Roc in light weight also, was great for MTA.

[dannyreeves]

I have 2 of those Rocs.

I have 2 of those Rocs.

Man, I'd like one of those babies to MTA with, but i suppose they are grounded or walled though, aren't they?

[vwkeepontruckin]

I could see why though!

In the late 80's they gave out light weight "Premium" Aviars in the players package. These weighed about 100g. Innova used to have a old school Roc in light weight also, was great for MTA.

The Aviars I'm talking about weren't Premies; they were bought off-the-shelf at a sporting goods store in Raleigh, NC.

[flynvegas]

I think you're talking about the ones that came in a blue cardboard box. On the back it had a picture of the Innova crew, Dave, Tim, .... The stamp has 6 circles and Aviar across the middle. Across the top it reads "The leading edge in flying disc technology", and "For disc sports by Innova" across the bottom. Mine is like 150g, never seen any heavier ones that came like that. They sold here like at Big 5 Sporting Stores. I've got a few, only one with the box. Nice old collectors disc's.

[davei]

felix, we did make both weighted and non weighted. Non weighted weighed about 105gms, which we referred to as premium. We also made a softer version called the Mirage. A 119gm is unusual but we made a few now and then in transition from heavy to light or vice versa.

[davei]

Kid Roc, there are three molds, but two are very similar. The different runs were due to different variations. Blunt nose are straighter flying generally, and sharper nosed are a little more overstable.

[davei]

Kid Roc, I should say three Rancho variations. There are also 9 other possible variations of Rocs we don't use, including the Ontario variations. Plus we have the Classic Roc.

[sandalbagger]

DAVE...other than for collector reasons, and assuming that the marino, and ontario roc molds still exist. Is there any reason that a run of these could not be made???? I know that there are many of us who love the old ontario rocs and san marino rocs. How about a special limited edition run as a fundrasier disc or something like that???? Im getting sick of cracking my old triple ring sani's right down the middle

[davei]

Chris, the San Marino and Ontario were the same mold, with different engraving with the center sprue area welded, whcih is why the ring disappeared. The differences in runs was due to material and molding differences rather than a different mold. There is no reason why why couldn't run an Ontario, but we feel the two main Ranchos, blunt and not blunt, takes care of most users. Add to that the material differences and there are a lot of Roc variations still out there. A special run could be made, but because the material is what produced the difference between San Marino and Ontario, I don't feel it would be appropriate. And the collector guys might think ill of it.

I think you're talking about the ones that came in a blue cardboard box. On the back it had a picture of the Innova crew, Dave, Tim, .... The stamp has 6 circles and Aviar across the middle. Across the top it reads "The leading edge in flying disc technology", and "For disc sports by Innova" across the bottom. Mine is like 150g, never seen any heavier ones that came like that. They sold here like at Big 5 Sporting Stores. I've got a few, only one with the box. Nice old collectors disc's.

Yep. That's the one. Sure wIsh I stll had one in the box, though.

OTOH, I stopped by PIAS this afternoon and dropped $4 on a Carolina blue "Wings-n'-Rings" Roc (original triple ring SM mold, not the current Ontario "Classic Roc" mold) with a NC State red "Raleign Area Disc League - Disc Golf Capital of the East Coast hotstamp that I'd rate a 7-7.5/10. And to the dummy that traded it in for $1 ... THANK YOU!!!!

[dannyreeves]

Dave, what Rocs are blunt nose and what are not?

[flynvegas]

A special run could be made, but because the material is what produced the difference between San Marino and Ontario, I don't feel it would be appropriate. And the collector guys might think ill of it.

As a collector I'd like to thank you for this statement and mind set. The new Roc's are great too.

[davei]

Kid Roc, I believe you can see the difference comparing 10x and 9x KC Rocs. Or, comparing regular Rancho, to a 10x. I believe the 10x is the blunt nose.

[dannyreeves]

okay thanks. The reason why I ask is I have seen ebay auctions for 10x Rocs in the 8x mold. I was under the impression that they used the same mold but the 10x plastic set up a little differently. Is there a mold difference between them and if so, was there a small run of 10x in the 8x mold?

Thanks.

[dannyreeves]

Chris, the San Marino and Ontario were the same mold, with different engraving with the center sprue area welded, whcih is why the ring disappeared. The differences in runs was due to material and molding differences rather than a different mold. There is no reason why why couldn't run an Ontario, but we feel the two main Ranchos, blunt and not blunt, takes care of most users. Add to that the material differences and there are a lot of Roc variations still out there. A special run could be made, but because the material is what produced the difference between San Marino and Ontario, I don't feel it would be appropriate. And the collector guys might think ill of it.

I am a collector of Rocs and I wouldn't think ill of another run of Ontarios.

Dave, have you ever considered running a small run as a fundraiser disc? Kind of like you are doing with the Super Roc for Worlds. Just a thought.

[davei]

Kid Roc, they may have set up differently or the 8x might have been an Ontario. I dont remember, sorry.

[dannyreeves]

Okay, I don't think the 8x was an Ontario. I just figured that the super stiff 10x plastic was what made it fly differently.

[Dick]

it's strange that the material caused the difference between san marinos and ontarios. the san marinos seem to have a much sharper edge and almost no bead, while the ontarios are nice and comfy. i have a couple san marinos i'll probably dump for ontarios...

[jaymo]

Hey Dave, not to be a bother or anything but... how are those Pro Orcs looking? ETA??? thanks

[sandalbagger]

what was the deal with the rough gritty surface on the bottom of ontario rocs????? I love that feel.