Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[pdiddy71]

i grabbed a couple of the new mold star gator x-outs.does the bead make them more stable than the old mold star gators? or same as a champ gator?

[John Keith]

the champ gators with bead are the best, the whole point of the gator for me is the crazy overstability for windy up shots, so i didnt like the star, cause they would flip over. im interested to knwo if these new star with bead are like champ gators??

[AWSmith]

Dave, how would you compare the OLF to the CD? also are there any innova discs that are similar to the OLF?

[tokyo]

Originally Posted by kvdiscpro

the champ gators with bead are the best, the whole point of the gator for me is the crazy overstability for windy up shots, so i didnt like the star, cause they would flip over. im interested to knwo if these new star with bead are like champ gators??

I asked this once and the bead on the gator does help it be more stable but the new mold gator x has a different mold than the orginal champ gator and has blunter nose that makes it more stable than the old.

[John Keith]

so new star gator is / will be most overstable gator to date???
if so im all about it, and will buy them asap...when where release???

[gippy]

The Asia Open Gators where the Champion GAtors with a Bead. I was unaware they had change the Gator til I pick up a Star one about 6 months ago. I was like why would you change that disc. I hate how Innova has a good thing going and they change it Stop making it ETC. Bring back the Champ Gator Regular Champion Plastic with the Bead. Someone at my Local course says to me what should I replace my flippy Gator with. I looked at him like he was speaking french. I said "Flippy Gator what? Sure your not throwing a spider?" I've had the same Gator in my bag for 3 years and it still overstable.
Make the Champ Classic Roc again Please.

WHy Dave Why does this happen? If you have a good disc why retool it? Why not make a new disc?

[davei]

Originally Posted by smyith

Dave, how would you compare the OLF to the CD? also are there any innova discs that are similar to the OLF?

I think they compare favorably. Both have a pretty straight flight with a moderate over stable finish. The CD has a little more beef in the rim, but that is mostly a grip preference. The closest Innova disc would be a FL, Viking, or Valkyrie.

[davei]

Originally Posted by gippy

The Asia Open Gators where the Champion GAtors with a Bead. I was unaware they had change the Gator til I pick up a Star one about 6 months ago. I was like why would you change that disc. I hate how Innova has a good thing going and they change it Stop making it ETC. Bring back the Champ Gator Regular Champion Plastic with the Bead. Someone at my Local course says to me what should I replace my flippy Gator with. I looked at him like he was speaking french. I said "Flippy Gator what? Sure your not throwing a spider?" I've had the same Gator in my bag for 3 years and it still overstable.
Make the Champ Classic Roc again Please.

WHy Dave Why does this happen? If you have a good disc why retool it? Why not make a new disc?

The Gator has not been retooled. Like the Roc, there are variations. Both the beaded and unbeaded regular Gator are still in existence, as well as the beaded and unbeaded X-Gator, blunt nose.

Most of the Gator fans want a non flipping Gator. The X-Gator is the most stable. Why not make a new disc? That is a good question. The answer is we only have so much warehouse space and so much molding time. We have to pick and choose what we can do. We try to pick the discs that either sell the best, or are discs we believe are classics. If we had the resources, we would mold up all the discs we ever made to have them available.

[AirMcNair]

I agree with you on this, bring back the champ classic roc!

[ishkatbible]

Originally Posted by davei

The Gator has not been retooled. Like the Roc, there are variations. Both the beaded and unbeaded regular Gator are still in existence, as well as the beaded and unbeaded X-Gator, blunt nose.

Most of the Gator fans want a non flipping Gator. The X-Gator is the most stable. Why not make a new disc? That is a good question. The answer is we only have so much warehouse space and so much molding time. We have to pick and choose what we can do. We try to pick the discs that either sell the best, or are discs we believe are classics. If we had the resources, we would mold up all the discs we ever made to have them available.

first... love your discs...especially the gator

so the beaded and unbeaded gators, along with the beaded and unbeaded x-gator are not 4 different discs? these can be sold as different new discs. gator to remain overstable and the "flippy one" can have a new name, to rid the confusion of "which one will i get when ordering online, instead of buying in person"

[davei]

One thing has been confusing for me regarding the feedback on the Star Gators. When we made the Star Gator with no bead, it was the X mold type. When we tested them, they were pretty over stable. Possibly, the lack of a bead caused them to wear more quickly and become flippy over time, but they didn't start out flippy for us at all. Also, whether a disc has a bead or not, does not dictate the flight characteristic per se. In other words, the material and molding is more of a determinant of flight characteristic than having a bead or not; especially in the case of a Gator, a Cro, or a Spider. In the past, we have had Sharks mold up more stable than Ontario Rocs. The Ontario Roc and Shark are basically differentiated by the bead.

[gokayaksteven]

so what gators are out at retailers now? what gators will regularly be available in the future? most gator fans i know prefer the beaded, overstable flat champs.

[davei]

Originally Posted by gokayaksteven

so what gators are out at retailers now? what gators will regularly be available in the future? most gator fans i know prefer the beaded, overstable flat champs.

We will not run beadless any more. Any Gators at retailers will be beaded, except possibly the one Star run. We will probably stick with the X beaded mold for future runs.

[gokayaksteven]

thanks--good to hear. we'll keep our fingers crossed for the champ version

[John Keith]

yeah, cause now Im will not buy a gator onlince cause I dont want to get a flippy one, I need the bead X champ

[smurphy29]

I would agree with the masses that the champion plastic beaded gator is what most players want. I hope Innova announces they are making another run soon of the champ beaded gators.

[20460chase]

Echo Star Teebirds are sick. Great job Dave.

[two5twosix9]

Originally Posted by 20460chase

Echo Star Teebirds are sick. Great job Dave.

Yes, yes they are.

[listen2bob]

MAn I hope these echo tbirds are as good as I hear. Been throwing glow champs for awhile. Just picked up a max weight green echo. almost recovered from a separated shoulder (ultimate is a contact sport) and ready to resume practice for the Sunshine State Shootout NT. Come down and play in the warmth

[junky]

Dave,
Did Innova make a Champ. Glow Boss?

[20460chase]

Originally Posted by listen2bob

MAn I hope these echo tbirds are as good as I hear. Been throwing glow champs for awhile. Just picked up a max weight green echo. almost recovered from a separated shoulder (ultimate is a contact sport) and ready to resume practice for the Sunshine State Shootout NT. Come down and play in the warmth

IMO, the Glo Champion is the closest you can get to original CE. These Echos, for me anyways, fly like 10x KC Teebirds until the very end of thier flight, then they get beefy. I still have about 25 left, but doubt Ill have them through the month.

[John Keith]

why is the "echo" plastic making a better disc? Its recycled plastic, is it adding glide to an already great gliding disc? is it more or less stable?
I have been real happy with the White regualr star run of Teebirds..

[DSproAVIAR]

Chase, I figure this is still on topic-

How does the echo star TB compare to a regular star or champ? More overstable? More glide?

Also, is the glow champ TB more overstable than a regular champ TB?

Thanks

[John Keith]

i hear that most Glow are more-overstable, not sure why, I think cause of the agent they add to disc?
but I could imagine a champ glow Tee is pretty overstable..

[John Keith]

i have found all white Teebirds in Star are very overstable new and have lasted atleast 6 - 8months of good throwing and still over stable

[20460chase]

Originally Posted by DSproAVIAR

Chase, I figure this is still on topic-

How does the echo star TB compare to a regular star or champ? More overstable? More glide?

Also, is the glow champ TB more overstable than a regular champ TB?

Thanks

The Echo is slightly less stable, giving it more glide. The flight line is more like a QJLS, until the end where it has some bite. On shots I wanted more distance out of I released with slight anny, and was suprised how well it took the line. Im pretty out of shape when it comes to mechanics,( havent thrown a driver since November ) and normally am a hyser release thrower- so I was actually more impressed than I can express. It just kept on going.....then bam, hyser.

Ive always thought the Glo was a little beefier, but its more in the way it ages than anything. Much like original CE or Hybrid KC Ts, they break in better and dont give up thier wind stability with age and abuse.

Last year I did a decent sized custom order with Champion Teebirds. I got a bunch of different types, some similar to the most modern release ( slightly opaque with big splashbacks visiable on the top and bottom ) and also some pearls that really remind me of the 11x KCs, but in heavier weights. These were pigs, and are actually closer to the Glos/Old CE and the more modern seemed to be a little less stable, with a flight similar to the non-hybrid KC 10x.

Star- Not much of a fan of the Stars. Had one I really liked from the first batch made, but after that, no so much. They fly similar to the Echo, but with less glide until you really beat them in, and by that time they get a little finicky.

[davei]

Originally Posted by junky

Dave,
Did Innova make a Champ. Glow Boss?

No. Too difficult to get them down to weight.

[DSproAVIAR]

Thanks Chase.

That is exactly what I was looking for and it confirmed that I need to get me some glow champ TBs for this summer. Thanks.

BTW glow champ TLs are also sweet. I just got ahold of some last fall. Very versatile. I have had great success with low-power shots where I would normally throw my rocs (250-300) but can't because of a low ceiling, wind, icy pads, etc. They also hold great full-power straight lines, gentle annies and gentle hyzers out to 350. I just need that added stability of the glow champ TB for predictable flights in heavier winds and when I really need to crank on it.

[John Keith]

wow, well i have really enjoyed the star teebirds? especially the White 175 ones, they last a long time and have great glide, but i realease very flat and with anny and I thorw pretty dang hard.

[20460chase]

Originally Posted by kvdiscpro

wow, well i have really enjoyed the star teebirds? especially the White 175 ones, they last a long time and have great glide, but i realease very flat and with anny and I thorw pretty dang hard.

Different strokes. Im not downplaying them, if it says Teebird its a quality disc.