Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[atlscott]

Dave,

I bought a beast today and it seemed to have a little more of an x-type bevel on it. Is this a new mold or an accident of some type?



It also had these bubbles at the center underneath so I didn't know if maybe this was the new plastic with the bubbles in the rim which caused some shrinkage? I haven't thrown it yet so I don't know how stable it is.



Thanks.

[davei]

Dave,

I bought a beast today and it seemed to have a little more of an x-type bevel on it. Is this a new mold or an accident of some type?



It also had these bubbles at the center underneath so I didn't know if maybe this was the new plastic with the bubbles in the rim which caused some shrinkage? I haven't thrown it yet so I don't know how stable it is.



Thanks.

It wouldn't be a new type, but it could possibly be the original type. Most likely just odd shrinkage. The center area is hotter than normal and that accounts for the bubble look. That happens from time to time.

[poisonelf]

Are there any plans to ever retool the firebird or something you can do to make them flat topped? all the champion firebirds i've picked up recently are very, very domey and will flip in the slightest of winds. i tried some of the flat top star firebirds but hey aren't what i would call overstable..the actually flew exactly like a teebird for me

[davei]

Are there any plans to ever retool the firebird or something you can do to make them flat topped? all the champion firebirds i've picked up recently are very, very domey and will flip in the slightest of winds. i tried some of the flat top star firebirds but hey aren't what i would call overstable..the actually flew exactly like a teebird for me

Yes, next run will be done more stable with a different process. This won't necessary make them flat, but it will make them more stable. We are incorporating this process with all of our stable Champion models.

[Dana]

Dave-

Can you think of any reason to throw (not putt with, throw) soft putters over harder ones? Is there a distinct advantage of one over the other? Or does it just boil down to personal preference?

Thanks

[FizzyP]

My Teerex was sweet but is now too beat to be a very trustworthy headwind disc. I am considering replacing it with a newer faster mold: a Boss or X-Caliber. X-Cal is obviously a good option. I really like the X-out Boss I have, but I wish it was more overstable. Everything on the Boss side seems confusing. I hear the light star Bosses are the most overstable. Does that definitely translate into being good in the wind? I had a light FLX Predator that was sweet into the wind... for about five rounds of golf. Then it lost that new disc, hyzer bite. Now a full power shot into a moderate headwind will slowly turn the disc all the way over (even though it still has wicked fade with no wind.) I want a disc that will stay overstable for most of its life. I like the prerelease X-out Bosss I have. However, it is somewhat speed sensitive. At low speed it has a lot of fade/skip, but at high speed it's downright flippy. In clean air I love it: slight hyzer + full power = 380+ft hyzer. But into a headwind, even on a significant hyzer the thing is practically a roller. Most of this is probably a function of my particular disc.

Anyway, I'm an am. I'm not rated very highly, but my driving game is way better than my putting game. I throw a teebird (hyzer) about 350'. I want a disc that well get me close to 400' in a moderate headwind. Somebody tell me what to get!!

[MattyInRR]

An X-caliber is a good headwind disc... After you break it in you can still throw line drives into headwind without a flip. Just a flat line. New they are stable pigs. The new star boss's are the bomb though. Any weight is good now that they worked the kinks out... Just make sure the disc is stiff, domey, and that you can actually pop the dome on it. They are awsome. I have 2 168g and 2 175g star in my bag. And I have some champion merlot boss's in my bag too... This less high speed stable version is great for huge hyzers up hill or in a tail wind. I still prefer a champion max over an X-caliber any day tho...

[AviarX]

my two cents: soft putters work to advantage on putts or approaches or drives if i want the disc to dig in rather than skip or scoot once it lands. they still skip or scoot but not as far as slicker discs. especially helps on slopes or near OB water

soft discs also seem to offer advantage in cold whether where fingers lose touch...

i also greatly prefer the feel in all conditions. i can throw soft JK Aviars 300+ ft without them flipping so i don't get the softer-equals-flippier arguments some have made... I never use the power grip though if that is part of it... if they could make gummy max weight Orcs and Destroyers and Bosses that would be great.

[rizbee]

mmmmmmmm.........gummy..........mmmmmmm

[davei]

Dave-

Can you think of any reason to throw (not putt with, throw) soft putters over harder ones? Is there a distinct advantage of one over the other? Or does it just boil down to personal preference?

Thanks

Aviar X answers this well. Many people can't throw really soft putters hard, especially on side arm shots: the disc can bend in your grip and feel different, the disc can be torqued on release more easily, and (although this can be good too), the disc can be over gripped if you're not used to it. I have dry hands and prefer the disc to be super grippy, whether it's soft or not. Grip is a very important part of any shot, as you know.

[futurecollisions]

my two cents: soft putters work to advantage on putts or approaches or drives if i want the disc to dig in rather than skip or scoot once it lands. they still skip or scoot but not as far as slicker discs. especially helps on slopes or near OB water

soft discs also seem to offer advantage in cold whether where fingers lose touch...

i also greatly prefer the feel in all conditions. i can throw soft JK Aviars 300+ ft without them flipping so i don't get the softer-equals-flippier arguments some have made... I never use the power grip though if that is part of it... if they could make gummy max weight Orcs and Destroyers and Bosses that would be great.

what grip are you using>? fan grip?
i cant do a fan grip, my fingers just wont bend like that. but i can throw a kc pro aviar around 300ft max. with a 4 finger grip.

[DSproAVIAR]

My Teerex was sweet but is now too beat to be a very trustworthy headwind disc. I am considering replacing it with a newer faster mold: a Boss or X-Caliber. X-Cal is obviously a good option. I really like the X-out Boss I have, but I wish it was more overstable. Everything on the Boss side seems confusing. I hear the light star Bosses are the most overstable. Does that definitely translate into being good in the wind? I had a light FLX Predator that was sweet into the wind... for about five rounds of golf. Then it lost that new disc, hyzer bite. Now a full power shot into a moderate headwind will slowly turn the disc all the way over (even though it still has wicked fade with no wind.) I want a disc that will stay overstable for most of its life. I like the prerelease X-out Bosss I have. However, it is somewhat speed sensitive. At low speed it has a lot of fade/skip, but at high speed it's downright flippy. In clean air I love it: slight hyzer + full power = 380+ft hyzer. But into a headwind, even on a significant hyzer the thing is practically a roller. Most of this is probably a function of my particular disc.

Anyway, I'm an am. I'm not rated very highly, but my driving game is way better than my putting game. I throw a teebird (hyzer) about 350'. I want a disc that well get me close to 400' in a moderate headwind. Somebody tell me what to get!!

I think you would be happy with the results from an Xcal. Get your hands on one and see if you like it. My Xcal has given me lots of confidence when throwing into a headwind. In a head, I put a slight annie tilt on it and aim off maybe 10-15 degrees to the right if I have room, keeping it about 6-10' off the ground. It holds an S-turn well and hyzers at the end. Also very useful for huge, wide, high hyzers. I used to use a Force for these shots but it beat up too quickly, which sounds like what happened with your Pred and TRX.

[DSproAVIAR]

Something else I noticed, an Xcal in a headwind has a very similar flight to a TB in a tailwind. That's a very useful shot, I'm glad I have it now.

[gokayaksteven]

star xcal? are they as overstable as the cfr's?

[krazyeye]

What would this marking on the under side of a disc mean? S.PD It appears to be a star destroyer to me it has a Christmas stamp by the way.

[Karma Police]

I believe that is the Star Power Driver from Discmania.

[krazyeye]

It has an Innova Christmas stamp on it. It is at an Innova distributors store.

[DSproAVIAR]

star xcal? are they as overstable as the cfr's?

Yup Star. I haven't thrown the CFR.

[Furthur]

I believe that is the Star Power Driver from Discmania.

Correct. The Power Driver is molded by Innova.

[davei]

What would this marking on the under side of a disc mean? S.PD It appears to be a star destroyer to me it has a Christmas stamp by the way.

S.PD is the mark for S.Power Driver, however, if it appears to be like a Star Destroyer, it might be a S.DD poorly written. The Distance Driver would be more like a Destroyer.

[MattyInRR]

star xcal? are they as overstable as the cfr's?

not really... the echo ones are really stable too. if you like the feel of star and the durability and stability of champion, then go with the echo star plastic. its not as durable to champion but its better than regular star plastic for sure.

[AviarX]

what grip are you using>? fan grip?
i cant do a fan grip, my fingers just wont bend like that. but i can throw a kc pro aviar around 300ft max. with a 4 finger grip.

i use the same grip i used in Ultimate for everything -- i hear it is called the FU grip (modified fan grip w/ middle 'FU' finger extended almost completely straight). the last digit of my pinky and index finger each are on and parallel to the rim and perpendicular to the flight plate (tips touch the flight plate) . my ring finger's last digit is parallel to the flight plate and perpendicular to the rim (tip touches rim). My middle finger is extended almost straight and touches the disc with the last digit (pad) under the flight plate. the thumb (top) and middle finger (underneathe) each press on the flight plate. I feel this gives me better control that the power grip (and feels more natural after throwing lids for years). I can throw 500 ft so i don't feel i lose distance...

[discchucker]

The FU grip is called the birdie grip if I remember right. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

[AviarX]

The FU grip is called the birdie grip if I remember right. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

looks like you're right:

Birdie Grip

This is an accuracy power grip. Three finger pads are pressed against the inside wall of the rim. The middle finger opposes the thumb pad on the flight plate. This grip is not quite as powerful as the Four-Finger Power Grip, but it gives the thrower a greater feel for the disc and provides additional accuracy.

source: http://www.innovadiscs.com/tips/dave....html#backhand

Birdie Grip – Bottom View


---------------

my Birdie Grip is a little different than pictured. I never consciously chose a grip -- this is just the one i fell into that works for me. It is good with Lids too The difference with mine is that all four fingers from the knuckles to the middle joints are lined up together and touching each other. I think that leads to more power... it definitely helps me get a strong grip.

[AviarX]

if anyone finds that image offensive, i apologize in advance to the PDGA leadership

please do not ban the Birdie grip!

[AviarX]

Hi Dave,

forgive me if this has been covered before but i hear the Star Bosses have two different stamps -- the ones from Innova West reportedly have slashes in between the rating numbers and read "PDGA Approved - innovadiscs.com" in the Swoosh. The ones from Innova East reportedly have boxes around the rating numbers and a solid Swoosh.

are they all the same run and will we be seeing this with other molds too?

[pdiddy71]

i have seen the difference on the discs when i was looking thru on ebay. the east coast star bosses have the flight numbers in boxes, west coast with the slashes in between.

[dgdave]

They fly exactly the same for me.

[zbiberst]

i think they are the same, just stamped at different places

[MikeG]

I found a big batch of Pro Wraiths at my local disc golf store that were labeled "P-DD". Were these just labeled incorrectly or possibly Distance Drivers with the wrong stamp?