Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[davei]

Dave,

Is there a way to see the 3rd collector's stamp for 2009 worlds. or the design for all of them. how many will there be? just the star monarch will have the stamps? when might the 3rd one be released?
thanks so much for answering all of these questions for all of us.

Steven

So far we have only had two designs that we put on Star Monarchs. Rick Rothstein has all the art and, I assume, the third design. I believe, the third will be the last. Right now, I don't know if it is going on the Star Monarch, or another disc.

[pdiddy71]

Dave, Any feedback on the test run Star Orcs? i just got one in 160g, and haven't thrown it yet. thanks

[davei]

Dave, Any feedback on the test run Star Orcs? i just got one in 160g, and haven't thrown it yet. thanks

If you mean the Night Shift type, not much at all. Most was from the other discs. I would appreciate hearing your feedback.

Thanks

[Karma Police]

I love my nightshift orcs. I'm throwing 175g and they are definitely more stable than my champion or my SB. They remind me somewhat of the SB from Tulsa but are more stiff. The Orc is still my main driver and it's a nice addition to the bag. I should probably pick up some more while they are still around!

[mikeP]

Dave,

In terms of your fairway drivers, imo they are all too stable. Even Leopards in the Star and Champ are stable to overstable when new and stay that way a long time. Same with TLs...most fly like TBs when new and there is really not short cut in the break-in process. What are the chances that you would make a disc in the Teebird speed range with a Monarch-like groove? It would be nice to have an understable fairway driver that you could buy that way. Just a wish...Thanks as always.

[citysmasher]

Dave,

In terms of your fairway drivers, imo they are all too stable. Even Leopards in the Star and Champ are stable to overstable when new and stay that way a long time. Same with TLs...most fly like TBs when new and there is really not short cut in the break-in process.

I am not going to say "too stable", because I believe the Star Leopard has nearly the perfect amount of understability to still be consistent, but I will say that the old molds that were designed for DX, sometimes appear have little to do with their premium plastic counterparts.

I said something similar about the Teebird. It would be interesting to throw a Star Teebird that was shaped like a DX Teebird. Same for the Eagle, Leopard, etc

A DX Eagle-X shaped disc in Star... now that would be Boss.

[gokayaksteven]

does the boss really have less low speed fade than the destroyer? that is what the flight ratings allege. would you agree with this?
thx

[davei]

Dave,

In terms of your fairway drivers, imo they are all too stable. Even Leopards in the Star and Champ are stable to overstable when new and stay that way a long time. Same with TLs...most fly like TBs when new and there is really not short cut in the break-in process. What are the chances that you would make a disc in the Teebird speed range with a Monarch-like groove? It would be nice to have an understable fairway driver that you could buy that way. Just a wish...Thanks as always.

I am working on it. Not the Monarch type, but a different technique. Probably going to take several months, but will be worth it if I get it right. The end game is a Leopard distance disc that flies virtually straight. Most of our older discs had some slight overstability built into them for the inevitable scuffs on the DX plastic that we used. We wanted them to have a gradual wear pattern. The urethane plastic changed this wear pattern. Our newer drivers are built with urethane as the primary plastic. Some of them don't do to well with DX.

[davei]

does the boss really have less low speed fade than the destroyer? that is what the flight ratings allege. would you agree with this?
thx

They are fairly similar now, but the first Bosses we ran were a little less low speed over stable. The hopefully, we can adjust the numbers as needed over time.

[Justin_E]

"I am working on it. Not the Monarch type, but a different technique. Probably going to take several months, but will be worth it if I get it right. The end game is a Leopard distance disc that flies virtually straight. Most of our older discs had some slight overstability built into them for the inevitable scuffs on the DX plastic that we used. We wanted them to have a gradual wear pattern. The urethane plastic changed this wear pattern. Our newer drivers are built with urethane as the primary plastic. Some of them don't do to well with DX. "

That would be sweet Dave. I was a big fan of the TL but recently had to replace my old (very straight) star TL. The new ones are overstable pigs by comparison and seem to be more overstable than my regular Teebirds.

Leopard distance....virtually straight...call it "the holy grail" or just "the grail"

[tokyo]

Dave I just got 2 champ boss's from mitch mac n town at the tourny and was wondering would these be like the 1st or the Feldberg run. I am hoping its the Feldberg cause they are stable and fast.

[davei]

Dave I just got 2 champ boss's from mitch mac n town at the tourny and was wondering would these be like the 1st or the Feldberg run. I am hoping its the Feldberg cause they are stable and fast.

The Champion Bosses have switched material from the beginning to a more stable type. The ones we are making now are pretty reliably stable. We aren't making the flippy type in Champion any more. Having said all this, you could have a stable one from the first run or most any one from the second run.

[vadiscgolf]

So how low do the star Bosses go? Still waiting for these to hit the streets.

[JackCO]

If anyone can answer this that would be great. I was wondering if there is any word on when Star Bosses and Grooves would become widely available. I couldn't find anything on here. I like the discs and think they will work for me but I can't use champion for drivers.

[shteev]

grooves are or should be "widely available" as in they have been shipped and the star bosses are sometime in march. CAN'T use champion for driving? got to know your reasoning behind that.

[Merkaba311]

Hey Dave, I'd appreciate it if you could shed some light on something I've wondered about for a long time... I tried searching everywhere in this thread for an answer but it doesn't look like this question has been asked, but I apologize if you've answered it before.

Why is it that discs made in Star plastic (or Champion for that matter) tend to be more high speed stable than the same mold in DX or Pro?

Star discs have the same flight rating characteristics of Champion discs, although some Star discs may be slightly more high-speed stable.

I have a Star Sidewinder that barely turns over but it just glides forever in essentially a straight line. It's probably my favorite driver. But compared to say, a DX Archangel, it's not nearly as easy to turn over. I realize the Archangel is more understable, but the difference is like night a day.

I can understand that over time Star plastic is going to wear down a lot less, but it seems like right out of the box, the Star plastic is more high speed stable. It doesn't make any sense to me because I assume a disc's flight is controlled by its shape, not the plastic it's made out of.

Does Star plastic have less friction with the air or something along those lines?

[davei]

So how low do the star Bosses go? Still waiting for these to hit the streets.

The Star Bosses go down to around 166 or 167gms. They will be released around the first of March.

[davei]

If anyone can answer this that would be great. I was wondering if there is any word on when Star Bosses and Grooves would become widely available. I couldn't find anything on here. I like the discs and think they will work for me but I can't use champion for drivers.

The Star Bosses are scheduled for March 1. The Star Grooves aren't scheduled yet.

[davei]

Hey Dave, I'd appreciate it if you could shed some light on something I've wondered about for a long time... I tried searching everywhere in this thread for an answer but it doesn't look like this question has been asked, but I apologize if you've answered it before.

Why is it that discs made in Star plastic (or Champion for that matter) tend to be more high speed stable than the same mold in DX or Pro?

I have a Star Sidewinder that barely turns over but it just glides forever in essentially a straight line. It's probably my favorite driver. But compared to say, a DX Archangel, it's not nearly as easy to turn over. I realize the Archangel is more understable, but the difference is like night a day.

I can understand that over time Star plastic is going to wear down a lot less, but it seems like right out of the box, the Star plastic is more high speed stable. It doesn't make any sense to me because I assume a disc's flight is controlled by its shape, not the plastic it's made out of.

Does Star plastic have less friction with the air or something along those lines?

Its not friction. Its shrink from different plastics and different molding parameters. DX plastics shrink more than the higher grades. Also within the grades as opposed to across grades, there are varying types of shrink across flow or along the flow of the plastic into the mold. Its complicated.

[AviarX]

Is a Star Cheetah out of the question? I used to throw KC Champion Cheetahs when i started playing and remember them fondly. As cheetahs are such fast animals maybe the name is obselete though... was it considered very fast when it was first released?

is there a timeline anywhere of in which years various Innova discs were first released?

[reallybadputter]

Is a Star Cheetah out of the question? I used to throw KC Champion Cheetahs when i started playing and remember them fondly. As cheetahs are such fast animals maybe the name is obselete though... was it considered very fast when it was first released?

is there a timeline anywhere of in which years various Innova discs were first released?

If you look at the PDGA list of approved discs, the date of approval is listed there. When I started playing in 97 or so, Cheetah/Gazelle/Whippet were the fast drivers. Banshee (along with Discraft's XL and X2) were approved in 98.

[rickb]

just go to PDGA approved discs and this will give you an idea of when the discs was approved. Release date should be soon after that.

And at the time the Cheetah was a fast disc. Along with the whippet, viper, gazelle, cyclone. It wouldn't be until almost 5 years later before the advent of the Thunderbird, Valkyrie, Eagle (modern mold) Firebird, XS, XL etc..

[davei]

Is a Star Cheetah out of the question? I used to throw KC Champion Cheetahs when i started playing and remember them fondly. As cheetahs are such fast animals maybe the name is obselete though... was it considered very fast when it was first released?

is there a timeline anywhere of in which years various Innova discs were first released?

Star Cheetah is not likely at this point. Closest disc to it is the S LS for Millennium.

[Dana]

Few questions-

Any chance some x-out echo grooves might pop up on discgolfvalues?

Also, is it the Discmania CD or PD that is kind of a cross between a Firebird and a Teebird?

When might we see discs with the new stabilization process? (Teebird, Leopard mainly...)

Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions!

[Drew32]

Dave,
I know you guys ran Sharks in the Omega type plastic for one limited run. Have you ever thought of running any other midrange discs in this plastic like Rocs or Classic Rocs? For one thing the grip is phenomenal and they can take alot of beating with out much wear (besides the flight plate stretching resulting in loss of glide). I know that alot of peoples response to the Shark being run in this plastic was so so but when I asked them about a Roc or another similar midrange being run in this plastic they got very excited at the concept. What are the pros and cons on your end of running a disc in this plastic besides a putter?

[davei]

Few questions-

Any chance some x-out echo grooves might pop up on discgolfvalues?

Yes.

Also, is it the Discmania CD or PD that is kind of a cross between a Firebird and a Teebird?

PD

When might we see discs with the new stabilization process? (Teebird, Leopard mainly...)

No date at this point. However, next time they are in we will give it a shot. TeeBird is scheduled for process. Don't know about the Leopard.

[davei]

Dave,
I know you guys ran Sharks in the Omega type plastic for one limited run. Have you ever thought of running any other midrange discs in this plastic like Rocs or Classic Rocs? For one thing the grip is phenomenal and they can take alot of beating with out much wear (besides the flight plate stretching resulting in loss of glide). I know that alot of peoples response to the Shark being run in this plastic was so so but when I asked them about a Roc or another similar midrange being run in this plastic they got very excited at the concept. What are the pros and cons on your end of running a disc in this plastic besides a putter?

All discs run in this plastic are difficult and slow to run. Rejects due to warping are high. We are currently testing a new plastic of this type that doesn't warp much. If we continue to have success with it, we may come out with
a mid in it. The problem with most mids in a very soft plastic is they are somewhat difficult to throw fast or in a wind and that limits what can be done with them.

[JackCO]

Champion is great material for my discs that I don't want to break down, (i.e. Firebirds, Gators) but they lack in grip compared to Star and most discs are best when they are a little broken in. I just can't rip the champion discs as well as star.

[J A B]

Dave

My "go to, most trusted disc" has been a Purple, 170g 1st run CFR Star Fire. I had two, lost one.

(not the disc fault, can't work all night, drink the morning away, then toss from a raised tee box, into a head wind and not pay attention to the landing... it's the Indian not the arrow)

My question is, now that I'm down to one, What current disc would you recommend as a replacement?

This Indian will continue to play golf after working all night, so losing the other disc remains a possibility.

Thank you for you consideration.

[dgdave]

A domey Champ orc is close, or a seasoned starfire.