Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[Birdie]

Dave,

Are there star destroyers being produced marked as S/ Ds that are supposed to be more stable?

[gokayaksteven]

Thank you Dave. I would love to see a stiff, kc-type plastic 150 boss. On another note, what is the future of the gator in star and champ plastic? Will you be able to get the x-type (with the bead) into regular production again? star or champ would be awesome. as always, thanks.
steven

[citysmasher]

We made a fourth top which fixed the problem. Some of these were referred to as Xes, but they weren't. They were just Xtra stable. We no longer use the X bevel, but we do use the enhanced top. In the future, we will use the enhanced stability method to make sure the TeeRexes don't turn over.

So, all of the CFR Star Teerex's are "improved", and none of the CFR Teerex's are the old TRX-X?

What would be the advantage to using the "less than improved" mold top at all? Why "stabilize" the old mold instead of just switching to the "improved" mold? Do you think it will have more glide?

The new mold top is pretty darn good "as is" in my opinion.

[RhynoBoy]

Thanks, Dave.

I've got another question. Will the Star Boss be production or CFR when released? I've heard rumors of both. Thanks again.
Chris

[atlscott]

Dave,

I heard Innova was doing away with the Full Color process. Is this true and why? I will miss ching rocs...

Also, I love the nightshift destroyer. It has helped my sidearm consistency tremendously. I wish I had a few more of them.

[20460chase]

Hi Dave,

I have a question about Whippet-Xs. Did you ever run the KC in CE plastic? I picked up a "CE" Whippet-X on Ebay that is white CE plastic. I think this was brought up before a few years back when it first appeared on Ebay, but cant remember the answer.
The disc is hotstamped with "Curley Discs" "Oak Grove"? and has what I think are 2 cartoonish cats throwing at an Innova basket. The gold band has an "#1 Innova Champ Discs" and there are a few trees. Its not very elaborate.
It is one of two things I can figure: Either a run of KC whippets done in the hybrid plastic or its actually CE. It has a large amount of flashing, which I guess may also date it (?), and it appears to be similar to CFR Glo plastic, only no glo. But it carries that type of look. There are visable stretch marks in the plastic when held up to light and a red swirl runs through on part. It is opaque plastic, similar to early run CE or , again, the Hybrid mixes.

Thanks, as always.

[discndat]

Dave - on the regular production TeeRex - we have a few in the shop that are definitely different from the other. Some have what looks like an "L" bottom and others have a bottom that doesn't really seem like the usual "X" but is just beefier in the rim and more concave than the "L" bottom ones. Are either of these the newer ones? It's been about 3 weeks since we received them from the East Coast. Thanks for answering all our questions.

[davei]

Dave,

Are there star destroyers being produced marked as S/ Ds that are supposed to be more stable?

Only night shift so far. The marking is irrelevant. They are marked * or S for Star.

[davei]

Thank you Dave. I would love to see a stiff, kc-type plastic 150 boss. On another note, what is the future of the gator in star and champ plastic? Will you be able to get the x-type (with the bead) into regular production again? star or champ would be awesome. as always, thanks.
steven

We will definitely produce a Star or Champion Gator with the bead.

[davei]

So, all of the CFR Star Teerex's are "improved", and none of the CFR Teerex's are the old TRX-X?

What would be the advantage to using the "less than improved" mold top at all? Why "stabilize" the old mold instead of just switching to the "improved" mold? Do you think it will have more glide?

The new mold top is pretty darn good "as is" in my opinion.

We only use the new top now. There was no advantage to using the old types.

I don't know the status of the CFR discs. Sorry.

[davei]

Thanks, Dave.

I've got another question. Will the Star Boss be production or CFR when released? I've heard rumors of both. Thanks again.
Chris

I think it will be regular production.

[davei]

Dave,

I heard Innova was doing away with the Full Color process. Is this true and why? I will miss ching rocs...

Also, I love the nightshift destroyer. It has helped my sidearm consistency tremendously. I wish I had a few more of them.

Innova East did the full color and they are unable to continue as the supplies to do them are no longer available.

[davei]

Hi Dave,

I have a question about Whippet-Xs. Did you ever run the KC in CE plastic? I picked up a "CE" Whippet-X on Ebay that is white CE plastic. I think this was brought up before a few years back when it first appeared on Ebay, but cant remember the answer.
The disc is hotstamped with "Curley Discs" "Oak Grove"? and has what I think are 2 cartoonish cats throwing at an Innova basket. The gold band has an "#1 Innova Champ Discs" and there are a few trees. Its not very elaborate.
It is one of two things I can figure: Either a run of KC whippets done in the hybrid plastic or its actually CE. It has a large amount of flashing, which I guess may also date it (?), and it appears to be similar to CFR Glo plastic, only no glo. But it carries that type of look. There are visable stretch marks in the plastic when held up to light and a red swirl runs through on part. It is opaque plastic, similar to early run CE or , again, the Hybrid mixes.

Thanks, as always.

Sorry, I can't remember for sure. I sounds like a hybrid plastic. I'm not sure which Whippet mold was used. There were three possibilities. Original with the concave bevel, regular, and Whippet X with the thicker nose.

[davei]

Dave - on the regular production TeeRex - we have a few in the shop that are definitely different from the other. Some have what looks like an "L" bottom and others have a bottom that doesn't really seem like the usual "X" but is just beefier in the rim and more concave than the "L" bottom ones. Are either of these the newer ones? It's been about 3 weeks since we received them from the East Coast. Thanks for answering all our questions.

The ones that are beefier in the rim and more concave on the bottom could be an older TeeRex version. All of the new ones have the L type bevel.

[scottcwhite]

Dave,

I just received my copy of the 2009 Innova Catalog...

BIG KUDOS TO INNOVA for the new "ECHO" plastic. This according to the catalog is 50-100% recycled material used to create the disc. WOW, awesome!!

Do you have any more details on this program you can share with us? Like, where do you get the recycled material from? Do you have any plans to collect old discs from players/retailers for even more recycling? Can't stress enough how awesome it is to see a major disc manufacturer putting in an effort to be more green. Plastics used in disc golf are primarily made of petroleum, right? The more we can recycle the better IMO.

[oklaoutlaw]

Hi Dave,

Once again, thanks in advance for taking the time to answer all the many questions. I would like to hear your take on the difference (if any) in the flight character of the Star Groove vs. Champion Groove. I have talked to a few people and heard conflicting reports about each.

Thanks!!

[Karma Police]

Hey Dave,
Just an idea if you're going to continue to make Eco Star and DX plastic. Maybe make a little stamp to put on the front that says "Eco" or even a ink stamp on the bottom like the old Roc stamp. It would be much easier for retailers and buyers to discern this from the normal Star plastic. I think it should be visible more than just the 'E' sharpie on the bottom. Just my 2 cents.

[davei]

Dave,

I just received my copy of the 2009 Innova Catalog...

BIG KUDOS TO INNOVA for the new "ECHO" plastic. This according to the catalog is 50-100% recycled material used to create the disc. WOW, awesome!!

Do you have any more details on this program you can share with us? Like, where do you get the recycled material from? Do you have any plans to collect old discs from players/retailers for even more recycling? Can't stress enough how awesome it is to see a major disc manufacturer putting in an effort to be more green. Plastics used in disc golf are primarily made of petroleum, right? The more we can recycle the better IMO.

Most all of the recycled Echo material is pre-consumer bad parts. We haven't worked out the logistics for recycling old discs other than locally. I recycle all of my old plastic as long as it's not degraded or excessively dirty. Sorting and transportation of old parts and then molding them into already finicky molds makes post consumer plastic very difficult.

[davei]

Hi Dave,

Once again, thanks in advance for taking the time to answer all the many questions. I would like to hear your take on the difference (if any) in the flight character of the Star Groove vs. Champion Groove. I have talked to a few people and heard conflicting reports about each.

Thanks!!

There are bound to be conflicting reports as the flight characteristics tend to vary some from disc to disc and weight to weight. Generally, the Champion Grooves are lower profile and slightly more stable. Generally, the Echo Star Grooves seemed to have more glide and possibly more turn.

[gokayaksteven]

will the echo and/or star grooves be a general release? if so, when? will they get down to 165/166?

[davei]

Hey Dave,
Just an idea if you're going to continue to make Eco Star and DX plastic. Maybe make a little stamp to put on the front that says "Eco" or even a ink stamp on the bottom like the old Roc stamp. It would be much easier for retailers and buyers to discern this from the normal Star plastic. I think it should be visible more than just the 'E' sharpie on the bottom. Just my 2 cents.

That's a good idea. We are currently developing an Echo logo that we can make stickers out of for that purpose.

[gokayaksteven]

will the echo and/or star grooves be regular production? if so, when? will they get down to 165/166? thx

[Roosta]

There are bound to be conflicting reports as the flight characteristics tend to vary some from disc to disc and weight to weight. Generally, the Champion Grooves are lower profile and slightly more stable. Generally, the Echo Star Grooves seemed to have more glide and possibly more turn.

not trying to be mean-spirited here but what i'm hearing is, you mold up discs, they come out as x-outs, you ship them to the distributor(or other injection molding company) to have them regrind said discs, ship them back, then remold them with new plastic? for some reason using all that fuel and energy to resell x-out discs doesn't seem all that "green" to me. i guess it's better than throwing them away though....

[RhynoBoy]

They might have their own grinding machine, many plastic companies do, I know ours does.

[davei]

will the echo and/or star grooves be regular production? if so, when? will they get down to 165/166? thx

Star will at some point I think. Echo probably will not. Stars will definitely get down to 165 or lower. Echos will be higher weight. Stars will be test run by next month, but I don't know when we can run production at this point.

[20460chase]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...bayphotohosting

Not sure if this will help or not. It does have a "WX" on the bottom. It seems to me to be similar to the Champion/Star Whippet-Xs, but theres alot of flashing so its hard to tell totally. Thanks again Dave, either way.

[scottcwhite]

Most all of the recycled Echo material is pre-consumer bad parts. We haven't worked out the logistics for recycling old discs other than locally. I recycle all of my old plastic as long as it's not degraded or excessively dirty. Sorting and transportation of old parts and then molding them into already finicky molds makes post consumer plastic very difficult.

Ahh I see the difficulty there, and thanks for the honest response. This looks to be tough to do with discs but post-consumer is probably where the most gains can be made.

Patagonia does this effectively. The main different though is that Patagonia collects used clothing that would otherwise be thrown away. How many people actually throw away discs? Not too many.. Also clothing is probably easier to recycle than "finicky" discs.

Maybe the best gains to be made are working with retailers who want to get rid of excess stock or discontinued molds. A disc retailer in Florida ordered way too much of a particular mold that has gone out of style.. He sends back his two boxes of Star SLs (sorry to rip on the SL, just an example) to Innova for some kind of credit. This retailer keeps his shelves current and Innova recycles and turns that SL into a Boss.

[zbiberst]

its not a new idea or process for plastic companies, they grind it back down and use it again. plastic is such a cheap material that many companies just throw it out instead of the pain of regrind and the hassle. it is better than throwing them away. probably saves a touch of money along the way too. discraft sites this as the process for all their factory seconds, they sell misprints, but thats only in the stamp. they never sell x-outs just regrind it and reuse it. its nice to see big companies recycle (good move dave), but its a great thing for innova because their reused product has become a new commodity and people will even pay more for the reused plastic. serendipity at its finest . marketing, ... seems funny, but it works.

my question for dave about the plastic process is, how long typically is the timeline from the idea of a disc to prototyping to actual production?

[pdiddy71]

Dave, i have a tee-rex and a teerex probably just molded with out the dash. the one with the dash seems more overstable than the regular one and my champ teerex-x. so the difference would be the tops?
My eco star groove flies very smooth, at 170g.
i was reading earlier posts, will the gator be back in retail production in champ again or stay as a CFR? thanks!

[oklaoutlaw]

There are bound to be conflicting reports as the flight characteristics tend to vary some from disc to disc and weight to weight. Generally, the Champion Grooves are lower profile and slightly more stable. Generally, the Echo Star Grooves seemed to have more glide and possibly more turn.

That is exactly the general information I was hoping to get.

Thanks.