Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[discette]

hey innova just released 500 eco star grooves!! only 500 made!!! black and orange 175,170and 172 look on ebay!! Collector alert only 500 grooves made eco star!!!!

The Echo Star Groove is being sold for the Green Country Open NT event. Collectors Alert! There were only 500 Echo Star Grooves stamped with THIS event hot stamp. This does not mean only 500 were made.

[mikeP]

Thats fine....if innova want one day someone will find the consistancy of CE and if Innova is not being a Patent Snobb will re-produce it.

There are no patents on plastic formulas with respect to the DG companies. I've thrown Z plastic Speed Demons...Also, if it were that simple another company would have made CE. The number of x-outs with that plastic would certainly discourage anyone from production even if they found the plastic. I'll bet Dave M. from Gateway has been down that avenue.

I still think CE is totally over-romanticized. I'll admit that the TLs and Leopards in the CE plastic flew very different and better than in any plastic since. I think this has to do with the density of the plastic and the shrinkage during cooling. This produced TLs and Leopards with more aerodynamic profiles. Unfortunately, the plastic density and how it cooled probably had a lot to do with the high number of X parts.

Here is the final reason I don't believe in a conspiracy on the part of Innova to purposefully quit production on CE discs because they were afraid that they were "too good" and that people would not need to keep buying them and it would hurt sales...I know myself. I, like many others on here,and thousands of others around the nation, am OCD about discs. If I believe that something is worth it, I'll insanely buy more than any contingency plan would ever suggest I need. No disc could ever be too good to form a loophole in my zany habit. People always lose discs, want to try a different color, try a different weight, try a different run, try a disc that doesn't feel quite like the rest, and on, and on, forever. No one can present me with any real logic to the contrary to make me believe for a second that CE plastic would have ever have hurt sales. So there is absolutely no motivation on the part of Innova to purposefully halt production for any reasons related to fear of loss of demand.

[dgdave]

And if it were a durability issue, why would Innova continue to make old Pro and current Champion? Stuff lasts just as long, longer than some runs of CE.

[davei]

There are no patents on plastic formulas with respect to the DG companies. I've thrown Z plastic Speed Demons...Also, if it were that simple another company would have made CE. The number of x-outs with that plastic would certainly discourage anyone from production even if they found the plastic. I'll bet Dave M. from Gateway has been down that avenue.

I still think CE is totally over-romanticized. I'll admit that the TLs and Leopards in the CE plastic flew very different and better than in any plastic since. I think this has to do with the density of the plastic and the shrinkage during cooling. This produced TLs and Leopards with more aerodynamic profiles. Unfortunately, the plastic density and how it cooled probably had a lot to do with the high number of X parts.

Here is the final reason I don't believe in a conspiracy on the part of Innova to purposefully quit production on CE discs because they were afraid that they were "too good" and that people would not need to keep buying them and it would hurt sales...I know myself. I, like many others on here,and thousands of others around the nation, am OCD about discs. If I believe that something is worth it, I'll insanely buy more than any contingency plan would ever suggest I need. No disc could ever be too good to form a loophole in my zany habit. People always lose discs, want to try a different color, try a different weight, try a different run, try a disc that doesn't feel quite like the rest, and on, and on, forever. No one can present me with any real logic to the contrary to make me believe for a second that CE plastic would have ever have hurt sales. So there is absolutely no motivation on the part of Innova to purposefully halt production for any reasons related to fear of loss of demand.

This is correct. There was some initial concern about the stiffness, and we did try different mixes to soften it up at times. There was some initial concern about repeat sales, but that went away quickly as the discs kept selling and selling. We continued to make the CE until the plastic changed. When the plastic changed we made repeated efforts to re-obtain it. We still look for new and better plastic. We have come across many plastics that look better, feel better, and run better, but we have never seen a plastic since that was as durable as the original CE. There is nothing more to the story other than fantasy.

[John Keith]

Thanks Dave for answering my questions. I love Innova they are my favorite and always will be, becuase you guys always push Technology and put out the best disc.
Sorry im upset b/c i swore to my-self not to fall in love with CE and a friend Gave me a CE Leapord.....i love it and im scared to lose it...i cant afford 75-100$ bones for a disc....
oh well Thanks guys and Discpeed!!!!!!! LOL

[Furthur]

You can get CE Leopards on Ebay for a lot less than $75 as long as you buy them used. You shouldn't fall in love with boutique plastic unless you can replace it.

Perhaps Dave can use the stabilizing process on the Leopard to make them come out flat and stable like the old CE Leopards...

[John Keith]

"Perhaps Dave can use the stabilizing process on the Leopard" ...........that would be cool?
is that an option Dave ????

[John Keith]

You shouldn't fall in love with boutique plastic unless you can replace it".......thats like telling a 'CRACk HeAd', not to like the STUFF too much cause it will cost you an arm and a leg.........one throw with the stable flat grippy leapord...i parked the second hole i threw it on...and it feelsssss nice.....

[davei]

"Perhaps Dave can use the stabilizing process on the Leopard" ...........that would be cool?
is that an option Dave ????

That is an option. Maybe not a bad idea for a special run.

[33009]

Dave I would stock up on those special run leopards.

I gotta great name in IMHO for a new disc, i was hoping for an understable destroyer type disc, and my name for this disc is a Pteradacyl. Kinda follows the dinosaur them of the t-rex. You guys came up with the name the "groove"

What do you think of that Pteradacyl for a future disc?

[mr smOOOth]

I know a Norcal Grand Master that would be stoked with that name!!!!!!!!!! KAW!!!!!!!

[AviarX]

I'm a little disappointed noone has seconded my request that the old CE hotstamp be ressurected... Would it be possible to use that hotstamp (or one with one very minor small 'update' to differentiate it from the originals) for a CFR disc if someone requested it Dave? how about if a bunch of plastic lovers all pitched in to get some made as a special run?

[davei]

Dave I would stock up on those special run leopards.

I gotta great name in IMHO for a new disc, i was hoping for an understable destroyer type disc, and my name for this disc is a Pteradacyl. Kinda follows the dinosaur them of the t-rex. You guys came up with the name the "groove"

What do you think of that Pteradacyl for a future disc?

Pteranodon and Pteradactyl would be cool.

[pterodactyl]

I know a Norcal Grand Master that would be stoked with that name!!!!!!!!!! KAW!!!!!!!

Ya, Dave's gonna make it for me if I win a world title. 3rd place isn't good enough. KaKawwwww!

[33009]

I always jokingly ask what my group member are going to use for their tee shots, I say time to pull out the Pteradactyl and most people agree that is a cool name for a disk. A long flying disc with alot of glide like the wing of a huge Pteradactyl......

[RhynoBoy]

I'm a little disappointed noone has seconded my request that the old CE hotstamp be ressurected... Would it be possible to use that hotstamp (or one with one very minor small 'update' to differentiate it from the originals) for a CFR disc if someone requested it Dave? how about if a bunch of plastic lovers all pitched in to get some made as a special run?

You're right, the CE style hotstamp is the coolest looking one I've ever seen. Also, I like how the custom stamped tournament discs left that on there and stamped it right over the middle. I've seen bowling green, Octoberfriz, and Halloween Classic like that now.

[Dana]

That is an option. Maybe not a bad idea for a special run.

Stableized Leopards would be awesome. I would buy a few.

[John Keith]

i agree i would love to try stabelized leapords...i would love to see if it works..........
and why are you guys not using the CE stamp...best stamp ever...is there a reason?

[dgdave]

Probably to aviod confusion

[davei]

Probably to aviod confusion

correct

[vadiscgolf]

Dave, I see the groove is in star and champion now, is there any difference in they're flights? Also I guess the star version is CFR? Thanks

[davei]

Dave, I see the groove is in star and champion now, is there any difference in they're flights? Also I guess the star version is CFR? Thanks

We haven't made straight Star yet. Just Echo Star, which is slightly different. The Echo Stars tested slightly longer flying than the regular Champion, with more glide and about the same turn.

[twoputtok]

I have thrown both the champ and echo star, the echo seems to be a bit less stable and does have a longer glide.

[flynvegas]

Dave,
Any thoughts on a 20th Anniv SM Roc release like was done with the Aviar gold grid stamp?

[rizbee]

Hi Dave,

I have been shopping around for Zephyrs in expectation of playing some Super Class events. So far, all I've seen are weights in the 140's or in the 190's. Have you run weights in-between? If so, what proportion of the discs do you run in these weights and if not, why not?

Thanks!!

[davei]

Dave,
Any thoughts on a 20th Anniv SM Roc release like was done with the Aviar gold grid stamp?

Not a bad idea. We hadn't thought of it. Thanks.

[davei]

Hi Dave,

I have been shopping around for Zephyrs in expectation of playing some Super Class events. So far, all I've seen are weights in the 140's or in the 190's. Have you run weights in-between? If so, what proportion of the discs do you run in these weights and if not, why not?

Thanks!!

We only ran a box or so of 180 to 189. We didn't know what the demand would be. We can always put the mold back in. The only other weight that had demand was 160 for WFDF.

[Andy_MN]

Dave,
I noticed a new special run of super soft XD's Mark was selling at DGV. Is this a plastic similar to the old SE Rhynos or 3X Aviar-x's? If it's successful what other discs may you run with the blend?

[davei]

Dave,
I noticed a new special run of super soft XD's Mark was selling at DGV. Is this a plastic similar to the old SE Rhynos or 3X Aviar-x's? If it's successful what other discs may you run with the blend?

It's not really a run yet. Just a marketing sample. He can't have more than a box. It is similar to 3X JK. He has two versions. One is even softer than the 3X JK version. If it is successful, we plan on making an Aviar Putter version and a XD version. We will also use it for JK Aviars,Rhynos, and Pigs.

[tafe]

i dont buy it. some runs of that CE stuff were more flexable than alot of the dx that comes out today. products and markets are usually driven by sales and consumption.

That's cool. Don't ever buy a 1st run red TL or FL. Just let me know when you see them! [img]/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
I'm telling you, I've seen those so scratched up that there was nothing left of the stamp and they still flew true to form.