Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[mikeP]

No, I like the Boss just as is. But imagine a disc with this kind of speed and glide, that could be thrown 400+ feet on a long anny line, big left to right. (RHBH) The question was more based on whether the same theory (wing width) could even be made to do this. I try not to pose closed questions i.e. "Whats the next big understable driver?". I was curious if it could be done. KP

My first run Boss is getting pretty broken in and is now as flippy as a mid-beat Wraith or Pro Destroyer. The large wing combined with the gummy Champion plastic and thin flight plate will probably result in a pretty flippy disc in a relatively short time with heavy use.

[mikeP]

Dave,

Are Champion XC's going to go into full production? I think this is the best incarnation of an FL-like high speed driver that you guys make.

Star Boss?

Thanks as always.

[crotts]

your boss is getting beat in? mind if i ask just what you are doing with this disc? my oldest Champion plastic disc is a original mold Starfire I have had in the bag since '04 and it has only been beat in where it will hold a anny line for about 1 year. how do you beat a disc in so quick.

: ) :

[davidtucker12345]

Ive got a few bosses that are allready beat to h-e-double hockey sticks one of them is now used for rollers

[davidtucker12345]

playing at the castle will turn an excaliber into a sand wedge in 2-3 rounds

[dgdave]

A starfire starts off a lot more stable/overstable than a Boss

[mikeP]

your boss is getting beat in? mind if i ask just what you are doing with this disc? my oldest Champion plastic disc is a original mold Starfire I have had in the bag since '04 and it has only been beat in where it will hold a anny line for about 1 year. how do you beat a disc in so quick.

: ) :

Wider rimmed discs react more dramatically to wear so that a Champion Boss and a Champion Teebird could have identical wear and the Teebird flight will have barely changed and the Boss will fly noticably different.

[davei]

Dave,

Are Champion XC's going to go into full production? I think this is the best incarnation of an FL-like high speed driver that you guys make.

Star Boss?

Thanks as always.

Champion XCals will remain in CFR for now. Star Bosses will be run as soon as we can. Not sure when that will actually be.

[stack]

can't wait for the new stuff to come out... keep it up!

[westxchef]

i may have thrown an experiment (BM) and it looks like it'll take the guys (aka... noodle arms) that normally have hard time hitting 350 well beyond 400 or more.
I tend to flip even the beefiest of discs and have a bit of D and as long as I threw w/ a lot of hyzer I was still getting decent flights out of this.

interesting addition to the line

(BM) really!?....
How do we go from the BOSS to "The Bowel Movement".
Is that a new marketing strategy?

All I know is I can't wait to throw the sh.....! out of the BM!

And can I get some extra towels please?



.

[KevinMPeterson]

Sounds cool, though this will not be the first or last time I hear someone remark that the latest greatest incarnation will add 50 feet to your D. Dave, nice to hear that things don't always work out the way you plan either. Today was def. a Monday. Keep it up. KP

[John Keith]

so disc speed, will boss still be your distance driver for you? and why do you throw Pred vs. Monster/Firebird?

[Luckymutha]

Any info about Starfires about stability versus weight/dominess? I am hoping the Starfire is the disc that I need between the Tee-birdish and Boss-ish distances (and I want something stable like a slower Tee-Rex). I bought a 175 domey Champion Starfire because it was the only max weight available.

Wierd that I just bought it today and then noticed people were talking about it on the board.

[davei]

Any info about Starfires about stability versus weight/dominess? I am hoping the Starfire is the disc that I need between the Tee-birdish and Boss-ish distances (and I want something stable like a slower Tee-Rex). I bought a 175 domey Champion Starfire because it was the only max weight available.

Wierd that I just bought it today and then noticed people were talking about it on the board.

I wouldn't characterize the Starfire to be quite as high speed stable as a TeeRex or TeeBird. It has a slightly softer stability. I have not yet noticed whether the variations in Starfire stability related to its dominess or not.

[mikeP]

so disc speed, will boss still be your distance driver for you? and why do you throw Pred vs. Monster/Firebird?

I love the Boss. I've got my first run dialed in now and I can throw it hard for huge D. It seemed squirrely while I was learning it, but now I really appreciate the -1 high speed turn because I can take a little off the throw and the disc will still work. I'm crushing my domier ones with abandon and they will fly as far as I can throw hard--each time I feel myself get a little harder throw the disc goes a little farther. This tells me that someone who throws harder than I do could be throwing 500' hyzers with this disc. I've already heard stories of GG doing this...

[Luckymutha]

I wouldn't characterize the Starfire to be quite as high speed stable as a TeeRex or TeeBird. It has a slightly softer stability. I have not yet noticed whether the variations in Starfire stability related to its dominess or not.

Thanks Dave. Mainly, I just want something more overstable than a Wraith. Probably the perfect stability would be 1/2 way between a Wraith and a TeeRex.

[Furthur]

Dave, I know you've talked about the Discmania PD before, but can you compare is stability to a Starfire? You said you replaced both your Teebird and Firebird with the PD, so I assume it's overstable enough to throw into the stiffest winds. Does it fly straight before fading hard?

[mannyd_928]

http://www.tsgnet.com/pres.php?id=35...&altl=Evojqbdf

[davei]

Dave, I know you've talked about the Discmania PD before, but can you compare is stability to a Starfire? You said you replaced both your Teebird and Firebird with the PD, so I assume it's overstable enough to throw into the stiffest winds. Does it fly straight before fading hard?

The PD is not quite as long as the Starfire, but holds up better in winds. The PD also has more torque resistance. The PD holds the angle you throw until the fade. The fade is similar to a Starfire.

[davei]

[/QUOTE]

Thanks Dave. Mainly, I just want something more overstable than a Wraith. Probably the perfect stability would be 1/2 way between a Wraith and a TeeRex.

[/QUOTE]

That sounds like the Discmania DD. Distance and stability about mid way between the two.

[vadiscgolf]

Hi, I noticed Teebirds are in a new champion plactic now and they wear alot faster than the more clear Teebirds with 11x stamp. I will say I like them both but I need some more clear overstable teebirds. Any chance of a different run?

[Furthur]

The PD is not quite as long as the Starfire, but holds up better in winds. The PD also has more torque resistance. The PD holds the angle you throw until the fade. The fade is similar to a Starfire.

Dave, if you had to compare the bottom profile to a disc, what would you compare it to? The PD sounds like what I'm looking for, but since I'm going to have to buy one to even see it, I'm trying to get an idea of how it would fly based on it's shape.

Also, how did this disk replace your Teebird? A Teebird stays very straight for a very long time for me on a variety of wing angles and velocities, and it seems like the PD would have more fade at the end.

[davei]

Hi, I noticed Teebirds are in a new champion plactic now and they wear alot faster than the more clear Teebirds with 11x stamp. I will say I like them both but I need some more clear overstable teebirds. Any chance of a different run?

Yes, we run TeeBirds fairly frequently.

[davei]

Dave, if you had to compare the bottom profile to a disc, what would you compare it to? The PD sounds like what I'm looking for, but since I'm going to have to buy one to even see it, I'm trying to get an idea of how it would fly based on it's shape.

Also, how did this disk replace your Teebird? A Teebird stays very straight for a very long time for me on a variety of wing angles and velocities, and it seems like the PD would have more fade at the end.

The bottom looks like a Firebird or TeeBird. It flies in between these two for characteristic, but longer than both. I used the TeeBird for shots between 280 and 350 when I needed to maintain a line in a breezy situation. I think the PD has a slightly higher fade than a TeeBird, but less than a Firebird. The TeeBird has more carry and less speed than the PD. The PD is a much better side arm disc for me, so it was a no brainer to have the PD for the short drive, long approach hyzers. I use it as a TeeBird, Starfire, and Firebird.

[widiscgolf]

Hello Dave,

Question...

Was the 1983 Eagle by Champion Discs Inc. Star Stamp...the first beveled edge disc made?

Any info would be appreciated. We're selling some and I just want to match up info I received from by bud Moose and yourself. I want to make sure it described correctly.
Below is a picture of it.




Thanks in advanced Dave!!

Josh

[davei]

Hello Dave,

Question...

Was the 1983 Eagle by Champion Discs Inc. Star Stamp...the first beveled edge disc made?

Any info would be appreciated. We're selling some and I just want to match up info I received from by bud Moose and yourself. I want to make sure it described correctly.
Below is a picture of it.




Thanks in advanced Dave!!

Josh

This disc appears to be the second part of the only run of original Eagles. The first part of the run was 3000 speckled orange Eagles. The second part was 7000 total of blue 130- 140 gm, yellow 150-160 gm, 160-169gm orange, and 170 to 180 gm pink magenta. This was the first triangular rimmed disc produced. It was short lived, and was retooled within a month or so to the original Aero. The Aero was later retooled to the Phoenix.

[widiscgolf]

Thanks Dave for the info.

Sorry I should of posted the bottom of the disc also...



So calling it the 1st and/or beveled edge disc would be incorrect Dave?

[davei]

Thanks Dave for the info.

Sorry I should of posted the bottom of the disc also...



So calling it the 1st and/or beveled edge disc would be incorrect Dave?

It would not be incorrect. It was our first disc and the first golf disc designed for disc golf and not catch. It was the first triangular rimmed disc that was subsequently called bevel edged.

[KevinMPeterson]

I used to throw a Phoenix when I was but a wee little tyke. Neat to hear some of the history in our sport. KP

[MarshallStreet]

Hi Dave D. Jason Southwick here and I have questions, with a prelude.

Last year I think it was, someone forwarded me your and Harold's letter you sent to the PDGA asking for some limits on wing width, and some other limits on discs, and in general a plea to define what a disc is.

It's a fascinating letter and a piece of disc golf history.

My first question: Has that letter already been posted or otherwise published?

Second question: Published already or not, may I quote from it, with a link to the complete letter, in our next Marshall Street e-column?

What I found especially fascinating about the letter, is that you were asking the PDGA to set limits on disc speed, by setting limits on, for instance, wing width. This letter also alluded to a disc that would eventually become the Destroyer, and now the Boss. The type of discs that would benefit mostly the players who already throw really far.

I'm not sure that's true, btw. I think one reason we tell beginners not to throw fast discs is that they can't yet throw the backhand anheizer.

I will say this about the Boss. We weighed dozens of them, and the weights were almost always spot on.

This letter that you and Harold wrote, though, a thing of beauty, with real thought behind it, with a big double scoop of ambivalence about the advance of disc technology.

Hey, they outlawed the super-dimpled golf ball. Maybe at some point discs will fly too far too easily, and someone should put a stop to the madness.

It was interesting how you acknowledged that faster discs further separate the strongest players from everyone else.

If this seems like a bunch of disjointed drivel consider it's three hours later here on the East Coast.

I like that letter, though. I can make a sensation out of that letter.

How about "Who's the Boss?" as a title?

Please let me know through private channels whether I can bring in the Bulgarian Mafia connection.