Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[Birdie]

That is what I suspected.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I figured that due to the nature of the product (waste of the production process) there would not be the same plastic around to be reground at all times, thus the same type of plastic would be inherently inconsistent...depending on what you guys happen to be running or grinding.

But I would call Eco (Echo I guess) a new plastic...if....the different plastics are mixed to do it.

Is Echo a mix of star, champ, pro, and Dx?

[Birdie]

I saw an orange one. Not as stiff or domey as the green XC's. I haven't thrown them, but they feel good

Exactly Dave, it's that stiffness and dome that I love about the first runs. The plastic is slightly tacky(er) than star as well.

[crgadyk]

I think there is Echo Star and Echo DX but I could be wrong.

[dgdave]

Correct

[boredatwork]

I think there is Echo Star and Echo DX but I could be wrong.

But Echo Star is always star only plastic regrind and Echo DX is always only DX regrind (I assume)

[gokayaksteven]

will xcals be run regularly in champion plastic? as a stock disc?

[John Keith]

i hope so. but Innova seems to find a disc that everybody loves then, they turn it into a limited run and charge more. good business, bad karma.

[discette]

i hope so. but Innova seems to find a disc that everybody loves then, they turn it into a limited run and charge more. good business, bad karma.

INNOVA actually charges less for CFR discs not more!!! CFR discs are priced low so that events have the opportunity to raise funds. Sounds like good karma to me.

[dgdave]

The club/TD is where the inflation come in to raise funds

[mikeP]

i hope so. but Innova seems to find a disc that everybody loves then, they turn it into a limited run and charge more. good business, bad karma.

They only really limit the run and charge more for the USDGC Rocs...and the $ helps the USDGC to be what it is. The way I've noticed things over the years, the CFR program kind of does a market test on whether an existing mold would sell in a different plastic. The other purpose is to provide a limited run of discs for the few people who are in love with discontinued models or a particular mold. With the exception of the Roc, if a CFR disc is really popular it goes into full production (Champion Wraith and I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of).

[cgkdisc]

The CFR program is not for Innova but for the TDs to raise money for the players. It's apparent that a tournament stamped disc on a regular line disc model will not sell as well or for as much as a limited run disc. The only benefit Innova gets is dodging the pressure to provide cash directly for sponsorship and instead support the TD team to earn it. And it's doubtful the loss of sales by limiting early production to CFRs offsets that benefit.

[gokayaksteven]

is the champ xcal going to be a regular production disc?

[healage]

Why was the classic aviar (grid stamp) discontinued?

[John Keith]

thanks guys good points, ill calm down....no but seriously yall explained that better than ive heard locally...

[AviarX]

were these locals Innova enthusiasts or people who throw from the Dark side?

[davei]

is the champ xcal going to be a regular production disc?

I think it will at some point. From what I have been told, it is one of the most popular cfrs right now.

[davei]

Why was the classic aviar (grid stamp) discontinued?

It hasn't.

[healage]

It hasn't.

Ahh ok -- my buddy heard a rumor they were and he's been trying to stock up like crazy; has there been a delay in production or anything?

[davei]

Ahh ok -- my buddy heard a rumor they were and he's been trying to stock up like crazy; has there been a delay in production or anything?

Yes.

[KevinMPeterson]

Dave, I am loving the Boss. I like the characteristics of this disc in the Champ plastic. It just suits this mold really well. I get a big kick out of bombing them, and so do a lot of my buddies. The glide coupled with the speed is really impressive. I was wondering about your thoughts with regards to a disc with a wide wing that was somewhat comparable to a Star SL. It seems like this large wing keeps the disc on a gliding line for a long time, which is awesome. I would love to have a disc that was flippable from hyzer, and would carry like the SL. Basically, are the forces at work with the Boss able to be de-stabilized into a really long turnover disc? I have tried the Monarch, but it doesn't seem to go anywere for me. Boss-L? KP

[citysmasher]

A Boss Monarch hybrid WOULD be awesome.

It could be run lighter too...

[dgdave]

Does the Boss need to be less stable?

[KevinMPeterson]

No, I like the Boss just as is. But imagine a disc with this kind of speed and glide, that could be thrown 400+ feet on a long anny line, big left to right. (RHBH) The question was more based on whether the same theory (wing width) could even be made to do this. I try not to pose closed questions i.e. "Whats the next big understable driver?". I was curious if it could be done. KP

[davei]

No, I like the Boss just as is. But imagine a disc with this kind of speed and glide, that could be thrown 400+ feet on a long anny line, big left to right. (RHBH) The question was more based on whether the same theory (wing width) could even be made to do this. I try not to pose closed questions i.e. "Whats the next big understable driver?". I was curious if it could be done. KP

I am researching whether it can be done right now. So far, I have developed a lighter, slightly turning disc, but I think the problem is the nose sensitivity. It would probably take a fairly skillful thrower to master it consistently. The L type technology would not be useful with a Boss sized rim as the weight would be too much.

[citysmasher]

I was thinking more of a new disc like the Boss that can be thrown easier....or higher.

The Boss is fine.

[citysmasher]

Here is a new project idea.

How about a more stable Starfire? I have been toying with replacing the Wraith with the Star Starfire. I find the Star Starfire flies nearly identically to the good domey Wraiths....but the rim is smaller.

However, there is not a Teerex equivalent at this speed for high head winds.(the Teerex is a "tweener" between the Wraith and Max).

There is not tweener between the Starfire and Monster.

Just blunt the nose a tweak.

[KevinMPeterson]

Very cool Dave, and thanks for the response. I hadn't thought of the weight problem. Has there been any experimenting with the size and shape of the Monarch "notch"? I was curious about what effects the depth and or location on the wing the notch would have. Neat stuff, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain some of the dynamics at work. KP

[citysmasher]

One other request.

Since the wing width thing is topped out, I would be interested in a Star Teebird that would match the profile of a DX Teebird.

[tokyo]

The star starfires IMO is the 2nd most consistent flying disc Innova makes next to the Teebird, and is a good sub for a Teerex in that it does not fly as far.

[davei]

Very cool Dave, and thanks for the response. I hadn't thought of the weight problem. Has there been any experimenting with the size and shape of the Monarch "notch"? I was curious about what effects the depth and or location on the wing the notch would have. Neat stuff, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain some of the dynamics at work. KP

I have been experimenting, but am not ready to say anything specific about my results. I can tell you that the proto Monarch wasn't as good as the released result. The Dolphin was the first of this type of design. It didn't fly too well.