Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[davei]

I am curious about the First Run Pro Avairs. I just picked up a few and I am liking them as a putter. Why do you think they never caught on? Around here it is either JKs or KCs. The First Run Pros Seem to be somewhere in the middle between the two in regards to flexibility. They do seem to wear a bit faster than the JKs or KCs, was that the issue? When were they produced? Was there really only one run? The flight plate does not feel as thick as the 5X JKs being produced now, is that the case?

On another note, why did the JK Avairs become medium stiff to stiff in the late 4X runs and 5X runs. Is it possible to run more flexy JKs again? If so, I would like to let you know that lots of golfers in the Pacific Northwest would love it if you would. In the mean time I will keep hoarding my small stack of flexy 4Xs and hoping that I can pick up a stack of super flexy 5Xs to practice with. Thanks for your time and for all you do Dave!

Sorry, I don't remember the Pro Aviars unless they were a prototype for the JK or actualy Pro Driver material. If they were the Pro Driver material, we went away from that in all models except drivers as they weren't very popular. The drivers, on the other hand were very popular.

As for the JKs now: we run JKs as soft as we can without incurring molding problems. Usually that means a medium soft. As we go softer, we start to get warped and sunken flight plates. We are currently running JKs in medium and they look really good. We will try a softer batch, if we can, and maybe color code it to mark it.

[davei]

I just saw that the Boss is listed on the Innova site and its rated as a -1 turn. Does that mean they wont be like an Xcaliber with more turn resistance? Were those olny the pre-releases?

Yes and no. The Boss is running with variation, like all the wide rimmed discs. The domey top version is more XCaliber like, (it was what I was originally testing), the flat version has a -2 turn and is very long, but also hard to predict in some situations. The mode variation turns out to be more Destroyer like with a -1 turn and a flight plate in between domey and flat. Probably 90 % will be the -1 type.

[gokayaksteven]

so i guess we have to ask online vendors if the ones we are ordering are domey or flat? any color clues? I just ordered 5 172 yellow from DTW, i will find out when i get them i guess.

will you be running them in dx? 150 specifically? if so, when? thx Dave

[davei]

so i guess we have to ask online vendors if the ones we are ordering are domey or flat? any color clues? I just ordered 5 172 yellow from DTW, i will find out when i get them i guess.


will you be running them in dx? 150 specifically? if so, when? thx Dave

No color clues except the Merlot have had the most domey so far. Yes, we will try to run these in DX or Pro, or both. We can potentially run 150 in KC pro type or DX. I don't know what the time frame will be. The mold is currently locked up making Champion. Possibly December.

[dgdave]

Don't always count on the merlot being the OS ones. I have 2 and they are definately the -1 type. Just ask for domey ones

[mikeP]

Yes and no. The Boss is running with variation, like all the wide rimmed discs. The domey top version is more XCaliber like, (it was what I was originally testing), the flat version has a -2 turn and is very long, but also hard to predict in some situations. The mode variation turns out to be more Destroyer like with a -1 turn and a flight plate in between domey and flat. Probably 90 % will be the -1 type.

All 4 of mine I would call -1. I think it is going to simply replace my Destroyers. The "sweet spot" or cruising speed of the Boss' flight path seems more forgiving than the Destroyer. Somehow it seems faster yet less squirrely...I know it flies better on a flat line than a Destroyer. It also has a later fade than a Destroyer. None of mine are much like an Excaliber.

I can't yet speak for the durability of the plastic, but I must say that it is some of the best feeling champion plastic yet. It is very tacky, yet fairly rigid at the same time. I know that you guys must be tinkering with the plastic blend to get these to weight, but it does not seem to be affecting the quality. Great job Dave!

PS: I must contradict Dave's early assertion that the Boss will only benefit big arms...I think anyone who throws a Wraith or a Destroyer is going to want to try the Boss. I KNOW all the greybeards down here in FL are going to be throwing this disc for 300'+ hyzers. Its that easy to throw.

[OSTERTIP]

I too agree with Mike, mine is more of the -1 turn range. I love it, it has replaced my pro destroyer. And like Mike said, it has a much later fade.

Its the only champion plastic disc I carry.....

Love it! Great Disc! Anyone can benefit from this disc.

[vinnie]

where is the number for the Bob Camp (Hottie at the Pro Shop art)spectator roc located?
Anyone?

[crotts]

bottom right of the disc. it's faded into the kids backpack

: ) :

[mejlholm]

Hi Dave and others,

I recently purchased a couple of yellow champion leopards and noticed that these are noticeably easier to find when it is getting dark.

The color is pretty close to the color of the disc on the innova page:

http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/championLeopard.html

My question is this: Is this due to the color of the disc (and could I therefore expect the same characteristic from other bright yellow champ. discs) or is there blended some kind of fluorescent material into the plastic?

Thanks,
Arne

[Karma Police]

That color yellow/green disc is always easier to find when it's getting dark. Should not matter what model you have in the color. It's definitely a safer disc to throw than many in darker conditions. Not sure if anything special is added to the disc.

[OSTERTIP]

Hi Dave and others,

I recently purchased a couple of yellow champion leopards and noticed that these are noticeably easier to find when it is getting dark.

The color is pretty close to the color of the disc on the innova page:

http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/championLeopard.html

My question is this: Is this due to the color of the disc (and could I therefore expect the same characteristic from other bright yellow champ. discs) or is there blended some kind of fluorescent material into the plastic?

Thanks,
Arne

I agree that my leopards are easy to find also, but they are usually under the basket!

Viva La Leopard!!!!!!!!!

[OSTERTIP]

Dave, I love the Leopard, its certainly my go-to disc for shots around 275-320. I have been throwing a couple Star Leopards and have a few CE Leopards also.

My friend just gave me a Pro Leopard the other day. I have never seen one before that day, nor had I heard of one. Did you guys just release the Leopard for the first time in Pro plastic?

I love the Pro version, it was exactly what I needed in my bag!

Thanks for all that you do Dave!

[mikeP]

Dave, I love the Leopard, its certainly my go-to disc for shots around 275-320. I have been throwing a couple Star Leopards and have a few CE Leopards also.

My friend just gave me a Pro Leopard the other day. I have never seen one before that day, nor had I heard of one. Did you guys just release the Leopard for the first time in Pro plastic?

I love the Pro version, it was exactly what I needed in my bag!

Thanks for all that you do Dave!

Pro-line Leopards came out soon after CE disappeared. They were of a very interesting material that was closer to Champion than Pro plastic, yet opaque. Very durable.

Pro Leopards arrived when Innova came out with their Pro plastic to simulate the old SE runs. If memory serves me right, Teebirds, Aviars, and Leopards were among the first "Pro" plastic discs. The Leopard plastic was the most durable pro plastic I've ever had.

[veganray]

Actually, the oldest "Pro" Leopards are labeled "Pro", not "Pro-line" and are a transparent CE-like material. A bit more HSS than other Leopard flavors (like a TL, kinda). I love 'em; way more useful to me than DX, Champ, STAR, or "new" Pro!

[mikeP]

Actually, the oldest "Pro" Leopards are labeled "Pro", not "Pro-line" and are a transparent CE-like material. A bit more HSS than other Leopard flavors (like a TL, kinda). I love 'em; way more useful to me than DX, Champ, STAR, or "new" Pro!

Yeah, I forgot about those...Same plastic as the early JK pro Valks, right?

[OSTERTIP]

Thanks Mike, mine is the same type plastic that is current Pro Plastic, not see through at all. And it has the updated standard "Pro" type stamp, I guess I just never saw or heard of one.

Glad I know about them now!

Thanks!

[gokayaksteven]

hey dave--any word on when you guys will be running star gators, and will they be x-type? thx again

[johnbiscoe]

Actually, the oldest "Pro" Leopards are labeled "Pro", not "Pro-line" and are a transparent CE-like material. A bit more HSS than other Leopard flavors (like a TL, kinda). I love 'em; way more useful to me than DX, Champ, STAR, or "new" Pro!

my favorite disc ever- just like a really fast aviar, almost totally neutral in flight characteristics.

[Boneman]

The Pig did take the place of the Gator for me. At first, I didn't think it had enough distance, but, like the Aviar, it goes as fast as you can throw it so you can get more than you think. We are not making Champion Cobras right now, but do have Star in CFR. The Star Whippet is also in CFR and not scheduled for main production.

Dave, I really got to use the Pig last weekend at CO States ... man, this disc saved a lot of strokes! With wind gusts 45+, I counted on the Pig to hold the line on some tough upshots ... and in very difficult putting conditions. Grabs the ground, and the chains!
Great job on this one! KUDOS!

Also ... I heard Borg was showing how the Boss flies. On the 903' hole #6, he managed a Birdie 3 ... in the high winds on Saturday! Amazing. I can't wait to try one.

[jpowell]

Any chance these will be offered in the 150 class? I have a couple of 150 dx destroyers, and the glide and distance is awesome! Not predictable in headwind, but will really fly in tailwind. Any chance of some 150 star or champ destroyers?

[davei]

hey dave--any word on when you guys will be running star gators, and will they be x-type? thx again

We won't be running any more Star Gators any time soon as we still have stock from the last run. If and when we run again, it will be the X type.

[davei]

Any chance these will be offered in the 150 class? I have a couple of 150 dx destroyers, and the glide and distance is awesome! Not predictable in headwind, but will really fly in tailwind. Any chance of some 150 star or champ destroyers?

We can only make Destroyers down to around 167-168 gms in Champion or Star. The Boss is even harder to make lighter. We will try 150 class in DX for the Boss.

[riverdog]

my favorite disc ever- just like a really fast aviar, almost totally neutral in flight characteristics.

I'll gladly jump on that bandwagon. My original two 153 CE Leopards, both clear late runs, are still in my bag and are used EVERY single round I play. Best touch flick disc ever made!!! These late run CE's are indistinquishable from the clear Pro's that Ray is talking about. Any time there's a one disc challenge it's the disc I use.

[johnbiscoe]

exactly- the later non-opaque ce's and the first "pro" were basically the same (unless dave wants to set me straight ). all other incarnations including the early ce's have a more pronounced flippiness, some more than others.

obviously good taste in discs can be correlated to liking harry crews (since i set both of you on him )

[CSharp24270]

Do you still make Champion Eagle-X? I seem to only come across EL's.

[JHBlader86]

Finally threw the Boss today and must say I'm pretty impressed. The flight was great and consistent. I borrowed it from a friend, but am considering picking one up this wknd. at a tournament. I find this to be a much better disc than the Destroyer and XCalibur, which IMO, are way overrated. I'm going to test the Boss out a little bit more this week, but if I do like the disc it'll be the first Innova disc I've had in my bag in 18 months. I must say kudos Mr. Dunipace.

[davei]

Do you still make Champion Eagle-X? I seem to only come across EL's.

Yes, that is what we have been making for the past year or so.

[riverdog]

exactly- the later non-opaque ce's and the first "pro" were basically the same (unless dave wants to set me straight ). all other incarnations including the early ce's have a more pronounced flippiness, some more than others.

obviously good taste in discs can be correlated to liking harry crews (since i set both of you on him )

Indubitably!

[junky]

Dave,
What kind of DX Roc's are this years pumpkins?