Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[davei]

i understand xouts tobe basically flight sound with slight visual imperfections

Yes, they would have to be some form of X-out. But X-outs don't sell well. Most people want the disc to look pretty. This time the X-out would not fly the same, and that would be confusing to boot.

[rickb]

Dave IMHO you have a large potential market with a fly a mile fast disc. Most players, contrary to message baord distance, don't have the arms or technique to get the full benifit out of the current high speed discs. I see them try to always with the same affect. Too stable.
As for them being x-outs I really don't think that would make that much of a difference. Currently I throw Pro Orc x-outs when I need distance. Give me a faster disc that I can actually throw and I'll snatch up as many as possible. I know of many others that feel the same way. We've got enough pretty discs. Now we want something that may make us mere mortals go WOW.

[ChrisEads]

I would prefer the fly a mile disc over the stable form just because i already have the discs that are stable like xcalibers and max's but im looking for more distance that can put me closer to the pins that I couldnt reach before. Bring on the DISTANCE!

[futurecollisions]

X-outs are great, and so are pro orcs!

[Furthur]

I hate tell the people on this board this, but we're not the target demographic for Innova. While we may play more, and buy more plastic, I'm pretty sure that the majority of their sales are to people who play under 5 rounds a week and own less than 10 discs. Trying to sell a warped disc to these people isn't a good business decision.

However, if you can figure out how to simulate the flight of the warped ones with a clean part, then you might have hit the jackpot.

[rickb]

I completely understand what Innova's target demographic is, but we're not talking about a full run of discs. Just a small batch that were used for testing. In that case there is a market for them.

[cgkdisc]

Just a small batch that were used for testing. In that case there is a market for them.

It's a borderline grey area per the tech specs let alone potentially "unfair" to have what the manufacturer indicates is a subset of their production with different flight characteristics and not have at least 500 available for sale.

[davei]

It's a borderline grey area per the tech specs let alone potentially "unfair" to have what the manufacturer indicates is a subset of their production with different flight characteristics and not have at least 500 available for sale.

Although I don't disagree with you in principle, these discs would meet the specs. The cosmetics have nothing to do with the specs. Everything that is measured by the specs is there. I agree with further that it might be a bad business decision. Also, 500 is a silly small number when it comes to qualifying for play in PDGA. Supposedly 500 is suppose to ensure everyone who wants one can get one. If people wanted these, we would make plenty. Also, it was more than a small batch. A small batch was tested. A very large batch was made. Most will be reprocessed.

The issue of one disc not flying like another is a non issue. That has been happening forever and will continue to happen. The only real issue is availability. That issue doesn't seem to matter to the PDGA, because 500 doesn't do anything to insure availability.

[ChrisEads]

So are these going to be available? PLEASE dont reprocess. SELL SELL SELL

[cgkdisc]

I fundamentally agree that as long as a disc meets the specs, it's fine. I think discovering "special" disc runs that only appear to be available to some players is just a minor PR issue for manufacturers who may be perceived as not playing fair even though there's no discernable scoring advantage. I don't see the 500 number as something that truly affects the competitive scene but the specs at least need to make it look like it's a more level playing field.

[rickb]

So are these going to be available? PLEASE dont reprocess. SELL SELL SELL

I completley agree with this. All manufacturers have had runs within a run "special discs" over the years. These have become highly coveted items and not just for collectors. Gummy Sharks, Gummy KC ROCs, 2nd run CE Valks, flat top Z-Buzzz's and the list could go on.

If for some reason you have to reprocess these fly a mile discs then could I offer a suggestion to specifically produce something that would be an equivilent. There is a large market for such an animal. Maybe a Boss-L for the 95% of golfers that don't throw over 300-350 feet.

[rickb]

Or do what someone suggested earlier. Sell them as a limited run fundraising disc and donate the money to Edge or another charity.

X-out fly a mile Boss's for $15 to $20 ea.. I'll take a dozen right now.

[davei]

Or do what someone suggested earlier. Sell them as a limited run fundraising disc and donate the money to Edge or another charity.

X-out fly a mile Boss's for $15 to $20 ea.. I'll take a dozen right now.

I think we are going to do something like that. The Masters tournament will have some prereleases. Possibly some of the X-outs will be made available too if there is any interest. SoCal has already expressed an interest.

[cgkdisc]

SoCal has already expressed an interest.

Suzette must have thrown a test model 450'...

[Spinthrift]

What about having some at USDGC (or the Doubles tourney the weekend prior)?. There's a lot of folks in and around Winthrop/Charlotte that can quickly give you a feel for the market potential.

[westxchef]

I buy X-Outs in the models I throw whenever I can find them in the weights I want. The money I've saved buying x-outs I would gladly use for some limited edition CFR "Fly-A-Mile" driver.

[davei]

I buy X-Outs in the models I throw whenever I can find them in the weights I want. The money I've saved buying x-outs I would gladly use for some limited edition CFR "Fly-A-Mile" driver.

I am getting a little nervous about the "fly a mile" thing I said. Usually I don't engage in hyperbole. It doesn't fly much farther than a good Destroyer shot, it just feels like it does and is easier for me to throw. The regular Boss doesn't fly any farther than the Destroyer and is more difficult for me to throw. The regular Boss is, for me, an excellent side arm power disc, and an into the wind or spike disc and basically takes the place of the XCaliber. The biggest problem I have with the Boss is the weight, not the rim. The weight is essentially maximum weight only at this point. I like to throw 168 gms plus or minus 4 gms.

[ChrisEads]

Well i still like the idea of a disc that flies like a destroyer but is easier to throw and is faster. I dont care if it doesnt fly any further I would still gladly take some of the deestroyer type Boss's

[pdiddy71]

i like getting x-outs. good for shots where possibly losing one is high ( over water, dense rough ). will the Boss be as reliable as far as its fade like the Max?

[mikeP]

I am getting a little nervous about the "fly a mile" thing I said. Usually I don't engage in hyperbole. It doesn't fly much farther than a good Destroyer shot, it just feels like it does and is easier for me to throw. The regular Boss doesn't fly any farther than the Destroyer and is more difficult for me to throw. The regular Boss is, for me, an excellent side arm power disc, and an into the wind or spike disc and basically takes the place of the XCaliber. The biggest problem I have with the Boss is the weight, not the rim. The weight is essentially maximum weight only at this point. I like to throw 168 gms plus or minus 4 gms.

I for one am glad that you still get excited about new discs during testing . Its easy to get pumped up when a disc does something that you didn't necessarily anticipate. That twinge of excitement is how you guys make your most your $ imo. None of us NEED more discs...

[BerserkerRush]

Dave (or anyone who knows)----I recently picked up a CFR Archangel and was wondering what to expect as far as flight characteristics. It is 174 grams and about the gummiest, grippiest champion plastic I've seen in a while. I've heard that these fly nothing like DX angels, and I am wanting to know what it is "supposed" to do before I try it out. (I think I read somewhere that they're very overstable). As always, thanks.

[20460chase]

I think we are going to do something like that. The Masters tournament will have some prereleases. Possibly some of the X-outs will be made available too if there is any interest. SoCal has already expressed an interest.

Oh great, So I can buy one off Ebay for $50 from someone that lives in California.

How about offering them to retailers?

[mikeP]

Dave (or anyone who knows)----I recently picked up a CFR Archangel and was wondering what to expect as far as flight characteristics. It is 174 grams and about the gummiest, grippiest champion plastic I've seen in a while. I've heard that these fly nothing like DX angels, and I am wanting to know what it is "supposed" to do before I try it out. (I think I read somewhere that they're very overstable). As always, thanks.

I remember those. They are quite overstable, kind of like a faster TB b/c they still glide well.. They fly pretty far if you get them turned over.

[Boneman]

Dave ... a question about disc ratings. Is the Innova disc rating supposed to be accurate when the disc is new ... or is it more accurate when the disc is broken in and in it's prime?

[gokayaksteven]

dave--i would release the "good parts" boss's that are what you want, overstable like the 1st test shot, with the regular stamp, and just sell the others that are warped as x-outs to retailers and let the buyers figure out how they fly.

[AviarX]

As you may remember i love Pro Orcs... Recently a friend had me throw his new Star Beast and the thing outflew my Pro Orc and had a very similar flight. (newer one from the more durable run of Pro Orcs)... Is that an anomaly or is that one of the reasons you kept the Pro Beast but discontinued the Pro Orc? I used to throw the old Beast -- did it get re-tooled?

I am finding my Destroyer is the bomb for headwind and long hyzer all the way shots, but still love Pro Orcs for max. D hyzer flips...

[davei]

Dave (or anyone who knows)----I recently picked up a CFR Archangel and was wondering what to expect as far as flight characteristics. It is 174 grams and about the gummiest, grippiest champion plastic I've seen in a while. I've heard that these fly nothing like DX angels, and I am wanting to know what it is "supposed" to do before I try it out. (I think I read somewhere that they're very overstable). As always, thanks.

It is true that they don't fly like DX, but I wouldn't characterize them as "very" over stable. But they are way more high speed stable than a DX. They are stable to over stable, with decent speed and a lot of glide.

[davei]

Well i still like the idea of a disc that flies like a destroyer but is easier to throw and is faster. I dont care if it doesnt fly any further I would still gladly take some of the deestroyer type Boss's

I would love to make and distribute these widely, if I could make them look good. The problem is mainly that they look bad. That doesn't reflect well on our company.

[davei]

i like getting x-outs. good for shots where possibly losing one is high ( over water, dense rough ). will the Boss be as reliable as far as its fade like the Max?

That remains to be seen and proven, but I believe so at this point. I am referring to the normal Bosses.

[davei]

Dave ... a question about disc ratings. Is the Innova disc rating supposed to be accurate when the disc is new ... or is it more accurate when the disc is broken in and in it's prime?

That's a good question. Usually, I give the discs a day old rating from play after a couple of rounds on a nice course. The discs would have a few scratches and scuffs, but nothing major like a tree slam or a street grind.