Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[AviarX]

cool: Feldberg throws the Monarch!

[cgkdisc]

I thought his discussion with the Champ regarding truly throwing hyzer versus stalls insightful and the challenge Schack threw down to throw one junk disc and learn the wind that day.

[AviarX]

thanks Chuck, i am about to check it out. I would still like to hear Dave's input as well though

edit: that is a great and informative disc golf interview. thanks Chuck!

[davei]

Hi Dave,

heretofore, coming from a frisbee background led me to avoid overstable stuff, but now i am starting to note that overstable drivers may make certain kinds of disc golf shots (landing near the pin) a lot easier. what is your strategy with regard to that? [when a hole's layout allows for it] do you find throwing the disc on a vector that enables the disc to do what it wants better than the frisbee mindset of making the disc fly the way you want it to?

also, what do you see as the greatest strengths of the Monarch?

as always -- thanks for your time, it is greatly appreciated.

I am of two minds about your first question. I almost always carry at least one over stable driver, but tend to use it sparingly. I too come from a Frisbee background. Having said that, I design discs to do certain tasks well. I prefer to throw stable rather than unstable or over stable, but many times over stable or unstable work better than stable. The Monarch would be a good example of an unstable driver that can do several tasks better for me than a stable or overstable driver. The Monarach has four strengths: turning corners with subsequent distance either hyzer or anhyzer, rolling backhand (so far it doesn't seem to work as well sidearm for me), giving good distance for fair power, and lastly doubling as a fairway driver.

My specific uses for an overstable driver would be: avoiding OB (for either backhand on the right or sidearm on the left), spike drives or long approaches, high wind management, and high speed flex shots either backhand or sidearm. A good example of a shot I would use a torque resistent overstable driver for (especially in a face wind situation) would be USDGC #5, (the lake hole). The left side of the fairway is blind and bordered by water. Accuracy is premium, but distance is needed also, to avoid making the second shot more difficult. Playing a sidearm drive flat and toward the left side of the fairway allows me to hit the entire fairway, instead of just half, if I were to throw straight up the middle. This is a common golf strategy. As the fairway slopes from right to left, the slope helps to catch the sidearm and miss the backhand. Another use for an overstable driver would be on the approach for the same hole. Spikes (or verticals) are probably the most reliable approach shots. Overstable discs tend to do these shots best.

[AviarX]

Thanks for the great read. My driver line up is now: beat Ch. Roadrunner, new Ch. RR, Ch. TL, Pro Orc, Ch. Orc, SB Orc, Star Destroyer.

I am now considering adding a Destroyer and working in the Monarch. (still haven't thrown one, but now have two after winning two non-Innova discs in CTPs yesterday and trading for new Monarchs)

I used to throw Ch. Valkyries, then Sidewinders, before settling on Ch. RoadRunners. Once my Orcs break in they overlap down in stability some and i find a new RR flies like a broken in Valk... How would you compare & contrast the Monarch to the Valk, Sidewinder or RR?

Also, does it surprise you that the QMS isn't more popular? do any of the Team Champion guys & gals throw them? what discs have you designed that are not as appreciated as you would have expected?

PS: Happy Labor Day! Your labors in the area of disc design & manufacturing have brought a lot of joy to the world.

[AviarX]

so i finally got around to reading a description of the Monarch as a faster Roadrunner with more glide... i look forward to getting to know them...

i know faster discs are a definite help when throwing into a wind which i assume is because they get further down the flight path before the wind can act upon them...(?) other than being an advantage into a headwind as well as impressive, does more speed yield other advantages too? at what times, or for what kind of shots, is a slower disc advantageous?

[davei]

Also, does it surprise you that the QMS isn't more popular? do any of the Team Champion guys & gals throw them? what discs have you designed that are not as appreciated as you would have expected?

Several discs have come and gone that were not as appreciated as I would have thought. The Aviar was in that catagory for the first year or two of its existence. The Viking has been largly unappreciated. Probably the most under appreciated driver of all time was the Python. The Python was ahead of its time. It was the sister disc of the Ram. The Python was a longer straighter flyer and was the best roller at the time too.

The most under appreciated mid range was the Shark at one time, but not now. Now, the most under appreciated certainly has to be all the incarnations of the #1 Pro. The #1 Pro we made for DGA. It became the Aurora MS. It was also marketed by Wham-0 through Discovering the World as the Apollo.

I really don't know why the Python and #1Pro/Apollo/Aurora MS didn't/haven't done well. I can only guess that they didn't get sufficient exposure.

[davei]

so i finally got around to reading a description of the Monarch as a faster Roadrunner with more glide... i look forward to getting to know them...

i know faster discs are a definite help when throwing into a wind which i assume is because they get further down the flight path before the wind can act upon them...(?) other than being an advantage into a headwind as well as impressive, does more speed yield other advantages too? at what times, or for what kind of shots, is a slower disc advantageous?

Basically, it is like club selection of ball golf. The right disc, for the right distance. Slower discs are often much more accurate than longer discs too. Putting with a fast disc is precarious. Driving with a putter isn't, but it might be too difficult to get range.

[ellswrth]

My go-to driver is a JK Signature Champ. Valk. The signature is really big, 'cuz she signed the disc for me at Am Worlds last year.

My go-to roller is the same disc - also Juliana signed it for me at Am Worlds last year.

[20460chase]

What do you feel is the closest to the Python on the market now?

[RhynoBoy]

Dave,

What disc do you like to throw that has good high speed stability without significant fade?

Thanks in advance!

Chris

[davei]

What do you feel is the closest to the Python on the market now?

I don't know that I could say. The Python was a 180 max driver, but if I had to guess I would say TL.

[davei]

Dave,

What disc do you like to throw that has good high speed stability without significant fade?

Thanks in advance!

Chris

Discmania Distance Driver.

[AviarX]

Discmania Distance Driver.

Viking?

[davei]

Viking?

Yes, but I read it wrong as "long range driver". I use the Ch Viking as a fairway driver.

[chrispfrisbee]

Dave,

In what plastic, & when do you expect "The Boss" to be available? CFR or Stock?

Thanks,
ChrisP.

[davei]

Dave,

In what plastic, & when do you expect "The Boss" to be available? CFR or Stock?

Thanks,
ChrisP.

We plan on starting the production run of the Champion Boss today or tomorrow. Regular release for Champion. Probably late Sept. for general release.

[mf100forever]

The most under appreciated mid range was the Shark at one time, but not now. Now, the most under appreciated certainly has to be all the incarnations of the #1 Pro. The #1 Pro we made for DGA. It became the Aurora MS. It was also marketed by Wham-0 through Discovering the World as the Apollo.

Hi Dave, I think the #1 Pro was sold under the name Raptor by DTW, it was included in the sereis "Great disc gold holes of the wolrd", see photo:
http://www.discgolfsweden.se/discar/...px?DiscId=1965

Are you sure that the Wham-O Apollo was the same mold? They look somewhat different?

[mikeP]

We plan on starting the production run of the Champion Boss today or tomorrow. Regular release for Champion. Probably late Sept. for general release.

Maybe I missed it some posts back, but what exactly is the Boss? Where does it fit into Innova's lineup stability and speedwise? Any unique characteristics in the mold (ie. Monarch)? Thanks as always...

[davei]

Hi Dave, I think the #1 Pro was sold under the name Raptor by DTW, it was included in the sereis "Great disc gold holes of the wolrd", see photo:
http://www.discgolfsweden.se/discar/...px?DiscId=1965

Are you sure that the Wham-O Apollo was the same mold? They look somewhat different?

The Raptor was something different. I don't remember it as a Roc derivation at all. The picture looks like a Viper derivative, but I don't recall.

[davei]

Maybe I missed it some posts back, but what exactly is the Boss? Where does it fit into Innova's lineup stability and speedwise? Any unique characteristics in the mold (ie. Monarch)? Thanks as always...

The Boss is a 13 speed XCaliberish disc. Definitely a big boy disc. Nothing unique, just fast and stable.

[ChrisEads]

Is it more high speed stable than the xcaliber or less? And are there any plans to make it in star or pro? Also is there any thought about making the xcaliber in pro plastic?

[gokayaksteven]

how wide are you guys gonna go? seriously.

[ChrisWoj]

how wide are you guys gonna go? seriously.

There is a limit in the standards for what will be approved, I imagine that would be as far as they'd bother going.

[Furthur]

how wide are you guys gonna go? seriously.

I would imagine as wide as they can make them. Dave said it's a big boy disc. So while it may be out there for the general public, probably less than 10% of the disc golfing public has any business with that disc in their bag.

[accidentalROLLER]

how wide are you guys gonna go? seriously.

Until they systematically weed out all the disc golfers with small hands.....like myself.

[colin-evans]

Until they systematically weed out all the disc golfers with small hands.....like myself.

and me i have slowly been moving to wider rimmed discs.. just as soon throw a teebird or tl

[davei]

Is it more high speed stable than the xcaliber or less? And are there any plans to make it in star or pro? Also is there any thought about making the xcaliber in pro plastic?

It is not less stable than the XCaliber. I don't think it is more stable either, but it is more torque resistent. We will eventually make the Boss in Star. I don't know about Pro though. DX, more likely.

I am not sure if we will make the XCaliber in Pro.

[davei]

I would imagine as wide as they can make them. Dave said it's a big boy disc. So while it may be out there for the general public, probably less than 10% of the disc golfing public has any business with that disc in their bag.

Yes, this is as wide as it will get. And yes, much less than 10% of the disc golfing public could use this disc to much advantage. However, Dave F. and Avery J. will probably like it. I like it in the wind myself.

[John Keith]

ok, my only question: why come out with an upgrade to the XC when the XC is so young, new. as a marketer, it sems that would only slow XC sales...doesnt seem wise...why not wait and give the XC a year or two of a run in sales...just wondering, i trust your judgement,,,just wondering?
what benefits over the XC?