Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[mikeP]

ok heres why i say that. i play with Robbie Bratten. yes he takes a pred out and bombs it 470+ high.. S shot. wow. ok he out throws me. but my 420-450 D is more controlled, lower ceiling. my scores end up better (unless the course is wide open) so i assume destroyer, more finesse get the D, but stay flat release, in control? How are Avery, Dave, You getting the distance? are you sacrificing the consistancy? or do i play to many tight fairway courses? LOL.

It sounds to me like you are on the right track...I followed Feldberg for the final round of the Player's Cup last year and he throws very smooth...I'd bet most he D drivers are not that overstable. He throws usually w/hyzer and he does not reach back very much.

I think that he likes the consistency of the XC for hyzer shots that are well within his range because he can just pop it out there and let the stability of the disc take over and do the work for him. That little "pop" he has is as powerful and controlled as anyone out there.

I can talk about Climo's game a little better because I get to play casual rounds with him (and one short round on the lead card in a tournament where I suffered from "the Climo effect"). He does not throw overstable plastic at all unless it is windy or he needs an extreme hyzer. He throws Wraiths for distance. His release is smooth, controlled, and the most consistent ever. It often seems like I'm ripping discs out faster and harder than he does, but he still out distances me most the time.

I used to be of the "throw stable and hard" mindset, but playing with Kenny and the other old school pros down here in FL has gradually changed that. Now I'm somewhere in b/w that old mindset and the "throw as smooth and consistent as possible with the disc that goes the farthest when you do" mindset. The one thing about throwing stable discs flat and hard is by the 4th round of a 2 day tournament they may not be doing so well for you. Fatigue sets it, which doesn't usually affect "smooth" throws, but it really affects my ability to throw as hard as I can w/accuracy. The players with a smooth and effortless style come out on top.

According to your description you throw in the same power range as I do. I don't throw the XC...I prefer the 12x Star Wraith for almost all distance shots b\c I can "smooth" it out there and still get 400'+. If it is more open and in the 450'+ range I will pull out a Pro Destroyer. It is much more sensitive than the Wraith, but when I throw it hard goes further and stays more stable than my Wraith. If it is windy I throw a Champion Destroyer (to me, a further flying XC). Yesterday I played on the backside of Tropical Storm Fay and my Champion Destroyer more than proved it was as stable of a distance driver as I need in my game. Bottom line, what works for Feldberg may not work for you. Accept that and trust in your field results.

[Andy_MN]

Dave, were the first run Spiders with the small star stamp current champ. plastic or CE? Thanks in advance.

[m_conners]

Hi Dave,

I've recently run low on my champion firebirds, most of these firebirds I purchased from 2004-2005. My question is why do the current run of champion firebirds have a domey top? The ones I am used to throwing are very flat on top. Will the next run of champ FB's have a flat top?

Thx,

mc

[dgdave]

Different Dave, but my guess it is just a molding variation.

[Birdie]

Molding variation

That little buzz word (phrase) is getting tossed around quite a bit...

Commish....IMO those firebirds you are talking about...of which I just purchased one for $30 on Ebay...are the way they are because they are 11X Firebirds in combination with Joe's small Twisted Flyer stamp in the center of them.

The new ones aren't usless, just not as stable.

[dionarlyn]

Dave -

What plastic type is your favorite? Do you prefer different plastic between putters and mids and drivers? From what era was your favorite plastic made?

My favorite plastic type for drivers is the 11X KC PRO opaque champion like plastic used in the banshee, gazelle and cheetah. Clear champion for most everything else circa 2004-2005.

Thanks,
Dion

[soundconcepts]

Do the ECO Green Xcalibers fly differently then the other colors? Or is it the same plastic only with recycled star material? I guess what I am asking is whats the story on these things because I noticed that the green ones seem extremely popular. It looked to me that both Feldberg and Orum were throwing these Eco Bombs at the World Finals in Michigan.

[Furthur]

I'm pretty sure the Echo XCalibers only come in green. Any other color is just normal Star.

As for flying differently, they are normally more stable, with a small amount of freak ones that came out less stable.

[jmc2442]

My favorite plastic type for drivers is the 11X KC PRO opaque champion like plastic

the best mix ever produced, ever. I have wished more than once that all the discs in my bag regardless of manufacturer, except for my putters, were made of this plastic.

those Teebirds are the best disc ever made. so grippy, so true flying, and it takes a WHOOPIN'!

if there was any way to bring it back in the exact same mix and produce a wide range of discs with it I think I would really consider ~30 bills a disc retail. no joke.

[zbiberst]

i saw a yellow echo marked e-xc on the back

[mikeP]

Different Dave, but my guess it is just a molding variation.

I think it is a cooling rate issue. A domey Firebird is just plain weird.

[mikeP]

Do the ECO Green Xcalibers fly differently then the other colors? Or is it the same plastic only with recycled star material? I guess what I am asking is whats the story on these things because I noticed that the green ones seem extremely popular. It looked to me that both Feldberg and Orum were throwing these Eco Bombs at the World Finals in Michigan.

Yes they fly differently. I threw one of the first ones Climo got and it was echo star. I was like "man I can't wait until I get one of these". I waited until they were in production and bought a couple. They flew very different, and it was more than stability. The normal ones seemed clunky. I think that the echo are faster and get more lift in their transition from turned over to flat. People that throw the echo won't touch the others...

[cgoodwin]

Different Dave, but my guess it is just a molding variation.

It may be a molding variation but it seems to be the norm lately for most drivers. I really like flatter drivers in general and all the molds I prefer are almost always domey now. At least Sidewinders, Teebirds, Valkyries, & Orcs are this way and it's in Champion or Star plastic as well. I see it in mids as well. I just like the feel of a flat disc in my hand and it seems to come out cleaner more often, especially with a forehand.

Dave, are these molds popping up more because they are cooling quicker? If that's the case is it more feasible to do this to increase disc production over the same amount of time and therefore makes it more cost effective? I'm sure there are others that like a more domey disc in certain molds but myself and many others I play with prefer a flatter molding. Either way flat discs are much less common now than in previous years.

[taydrl]

ATTENTION ALL LADY DISC GOLFERS

OK, LISTEN UP LADIES. I am trying to help here. I am beginning to wonder if the ladies of disc golf really want to promote this sport or just gripe about the low numbers of women players. I have issued a challenge on other threads to help those who want to help themselves. RESULTS, the board went quiet. My wife and I are trying to build a disc golf resort near tulsa, oklahoma. We are not disc golfers but we love the sport and the disc golf community as a whole. We are absolutely putting our money where our mouth is. We have had the honor of having our course played by some very good women players, including Courtney Peavey and Valerie Jenkins. As newcomers to the sport, I do my research by surfing other clubs discussion boards and try to ascertain needs of the sport where we might be able to fill a niche. To that end, we are willing to host an all women's tournament with some substantial added money (depending on the number of entries). All I hear from women is their concern about the lack of competition or female competitors. It is obvious to me that we need to raise the bar for women in this sport. If there is genuine concern for this sport by enough ladies, then we are here to help you, ladies, raise the bar. If it is just a venue for negative comments then, count us out. Any ladies want to do something positive and good for ladies disc golf. The ball is now in your court. Jim Taylor, owner, The Lodge in Pawhuska, Ok. 918-724-3121.

--------------------
JT

[davei]

Dave, were the first run Spiders with the small star stamp current champ. plastic or CE? Thanks in advance.

Not CE. Maybe not current either. Even when we order the exact same plastic, it is not necessarily exactly the same. Batch to batch variations occur.

[davei]

Hi Dave,

I've recently run low on my champion firebirds, most of these firebirds I purchased from 2004-2005. My question is why do the current run of champion firebirds have a domey top? The ones I am used to throwing are very flat on top. Will the next run of champ FB's have a flat top?

Thx,

mc

dgdave is correct. Just a molding variation. I can't tell you what the next run will look like exactly, but they will be stable, and not overly domey. We really don't want them extremely flat either.

[davei]

Dave -

What plastic type is your favorite? Do you prefer different plastic between putters and mids and drivers? From what era was your favorite plastic made?

My favorite plastic type for drivers is the 11X KC PRO opaque champion like plastic used in the banshee, gazelle and cheetah. Clear champion for most everything else circa 2004-2005.

Thanks,
Dion

I generally like the JK Pro putter plastic for putters and my Pig. For everything else, I prefer whatever feels the best between Star or Champion. The grippier, the better. Not too stiff and not too gummy.

[John Keith]

Thanks Florida, it sounds we are similar in driving. ill take that.
ill tweak my over stable XC, star Destoyer and keep the Pro around and even try the star wraith for others. again thanks man.

[John Keith]

What Innova setup do you guys like for your overstable game?
ie whippets and firebirds, monsters, max...?

[davei]

Do the ECO Green Xcalibers fly differently then the other colors? Or is it the same plastic only with recycled star material? I guess what I am asking is whats the story on these things because I noticed that the green ones seem extremely popular. It looked to me that both Feldberg and Orum were throwing these Eco Bombs at the World Finals in Michigan.

Each Echo color is bound to be slightly different as it is made from a mass of reprocessed discs. The Green was a particularly domey batch. Yellow, Orange, Red, and Gray all seemed normal. The Green was also made into blue, and various shades of green and teal.

[dgdave]

Are there any new types of plastics in the works? either for mass runs or TFR stuff.

[John Keith]

hey Florida does KC throw destroyer, or just stick to wraith for D.

[mikeP]

hey Florida does KC throw destroyer, or just stick to wraith for D.

Kenny throws his sig Star Wraith exclusively for D when I've played w/him. He's got stable ones, medium ones, and flippy ones that he rolls way farther than I can throw. I watched him park a 540' hole rolling that Wraith on a basket that is placed 25' in front of a lake! He can throw his Wraiths 450' on a hyzer the whole way and gets close to 500' with an "S" pattern flight...

I haven't played with the champ for a couple of months, but he does not change discs very often. I know when he first got Destroyers he gave most of them away. Domey and stiff 12x Wraiths are the cornerstone of his distance game,

[mikeP]

Dave,

Are Champion Destroyers going to go into regular production?

On a more philosophical note...Do you think the faster, wide-rimmed drivers are making the sport easier in a noticable way as evidenced by the low scores @ Worlds this year?

[cgkdisc]

We just had a Roc / Aviar Worlds. The wide rims were mostly on the marshal hats...

[mikeP]

We just had a Roc / Aviar Worlds. The wide rims were mostly on the marshal hats...

What about all the eagles on par 4's and 5's?

[cgkdisc]

What's the easiest way to increase the number of eagles on a hole without changing to wide-rimmed discs?

[rollinghedge]

We are thinking about it. We recently sent a disc in for certification that might fit the bill. We also sent some to Dave, to field test. If Dave did win the USDGC again, it would seal the deal. He is the number one player and has an impressive list of Major open victories. We have no release date set yet.

What type of disc was submitted?

Thx

[davei]

Are there any new types of plastics in the works? either for mass runs or TFR stuff.

I have been working on a new plastic, but so far, it doesn't run well.

[davei]

Dave,

Are Champion Destroyers going to go into regular production?

On a more philosophical note...Do you think the faster, wide-rimmed drivers are making the sport easier in a noticable way as evidenced by the low scores @ Worlds this year?

Yes, we will eventually make mass run Champion Destroyers.

I think the wide rimmed discs make distance easier and playing in the wind easier, but doesn't make accuracy easier at all. It might make accuracy a little harder. That being said, it depends on the design of the course as to whether or not it makes scoring easier. On a course like USDGC, it makes some of the holes riskier and rewardier. Higher risk, but higher potential reward. On a hole like 888, it makes the approach shot over the parking lot easier. I didn't go to worlds this year so I can't comment on how these discs might have affected the scores. Generally, they help on open holes where you need a lot of distance without asking for much accuracy.