Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[JHBlader86]

Hey Dave,

As much as I love the new Star Aviar Driver, I find it very difficult to do much driving with it as the Star plastic is very slick and hard to grip, esp. when its really cold outside. So, w/Discraft releasing the FLX plastic is INNOVa going to re-release several Star plastic discs that are grippier and more flexible. Not necessarily FLX style, but where we can actually grip the discs. Everytime I try to do a little driving with the Star Aviar Driver it slips out of my hand like ice. Granted, I love this disc when putting into a headwind (replaced my SS Wizard with it), but its frustrating trying to get longer putts out of it when I cant seem to even grip it.

[Boneman]

Hey Dave, it's too cold outside. Can you cancel the run of ice and snow we're having and run some sunshine instead? You da man!

[discette]

Hey Dave,

As much as I love the new Star Aviar Driver, I find it very difficult to do much driving with it as the Star plastic is very slick and hard to grip, esp. when its really cold outside. So, w/Discraft releasing the FLX plastic is INNOVa going to re-release several Star plastic discs that are grippier and more flexible. Not necessarily FLX style, but where we can actually grip the discs. Everytime I try to do a little driving with the Star Aviar Driver it slips out of my hand like ice. Granted, I love this disc when putting into a headwind (replaced my SS Wizard with it), but its frustrating trying to get longer putts out of it when I cant seem to even grip it.

This was posted on this thread by Dave on November 16, 2006:

We are running gummy Star Rhynos right now for custom hotstamping or CFR. We can make them heavy or light depending on the mold, but weight should not be much of a problem. We could, at least, put some other gummy models in the same program and see what people think.

Since Dave posted this, the Rhynos are in general release and Star Skeeters were released in a more flexible Star plastic. I believe Spiders and some Sharks were also made in softer Star and Champion plastic.

Innova has had soft plastic available for years, the JK Aviar and Pro Rhyno come to mind. For years, I threw a gummy 150 Champion Valkyrie.

[AviarX]

<----
<---- get yourself an Aviar-x for cold weather
<---- (if the Aviar-x is too stable, try an Omega SS)
<----

Hey Dave,

As much as I love the new Star Aviar Driver, I find it very difficult to do much driving with it as the Star plastic is very slick and hard to grip, esp. when its really cold outside. So, w/Discraft releasing the FLX plastic is INNOVa going to re-release several Star plastic discs that are grippier and more flexible. Not necessarily FLX style, but where we can actually grip the discs. Everytime I try to do a little driving with the Star Aviar Driver it slips out of my hand like ice. Granted, I love this disc when putting into a headwind (replaced my SS Wizard with it), but its frustrating trying to get longer putts out of it when I cant seem to even grip it.

[citysmasher]

Since Dave posted this, the Rhynos are in general release and Star Skeeters were released in a more flexible Star plastic. I believe Spiders and some Sharks were also made in softer Star and Champion plastic.

Is there some way that Innova could assign some kind of name to the soft runs of Star? Like Star Soft or something?

That way soft plastic could be asked for by name, instead of having to scrounge around trying to find it?

[davei]

Dave, as far as older Innova drivers go, what are the families of molds that share many physical traits/dimensions...though their flights are different? ie Wraith - Tee Rex - Max

Thanks for the edit. We started with sister discs like the Raven/Viper, Ram/Python, and all the way back to Roc/XD. The Whippet/Gazelle/Cheetah/Leopard was the first family of drivers followed by the Banshee/Eagle/TeeBird/EXP/Bomb. The next family in line is the largest by far including Firebird, Valyrie, Viking, Sidewinder, Roadrunner, plus others.

[davei]

Is there some way that Innova could assign some kind of name to the soft runs of Star? Like Star Soft or something?

That way soft plastic could be asked for by name, instead of having to scrounge around trying to find it?

Good question. It is really my fault that we have so many confusing varieties out there and we do have a name for Gummy Star. G-Star. In the past we just ran a variety, but we are going to try to segregate more carefully. The problem is people like a wide variety of plastic stiffness. I prefer softer and grippier, and many top pros prefer stiff as possible. We have never segregated the stiffer and softer because we had so many choices already and no room to put them. We are working on that now. I personally want to make a much wider offering of gummy Champion and Star. We started several months ago. We are concentrating on the putters and mid ranges first.

[superberry]

Teebird:___

Firebird:___

Roc:______

Those are FANTASTIC - I wish all manufacturers used them!!!

[citysmasher]

Good question. It is really my fault that we have so many confusing varieties out there and we do have a name for Gummy Star. G-Star. In the past we just ran a variety, but we are going to try to segregate more carefully. The problem is people like a wide variety of plastic stiffness. I prefer softer and grippier, and many top pros prefer stiff as possible. We have never segregated the stiffer and softer because we had so many choices already and no room to put them. We are working on that now. I personally want to make a much wider offering of gummy Champion and Star. We started several months ago. We are concentrating on the putters and mid ranges first.

Cool Dave. That will be great!

[citysmasher]

Firebird:___

Do they have the Orc? Where are these listed?

[geomy]

sorry, didn't find the orc profile. some random clicking and a little luck will get you where you need...unless you read japanese, then by all means.

Hero Disc Shop

the search box will accept english, so try there.

[JHBlader86]

<----
<---- get yourself an Aviar-x for cold weather
<---- (if the Aviar-x is too stable, try an Omega SS)
<----

The Aviar X is my main putter, but I would like to use the Star Aviar Driver in stronger wind conditions as it holds up better. Plus, the Star plastic stabilizes the disc more and it would keep the disc from turning over if I accidentally put a little too much anhyzer on it.

[veganray]

175g 3x JK Aviar-x is my go-to putter & 171g 11x KC Aviar is my go-to approach/putter. I tested the 171g STAR Aviar Driver for about a week & found that, while its hi-speed flight characteristics were much like those discs, it lacked the glide of either, instead dropping like a stone once it slowed down a bit. Some people may like that; I didn't.

My $0.02.

[the_kid]

Harder putters=more consistant release. I took me 5 years to figure this out as well as Blake_T hounding me about it until I switched but it has helped my game tremendously.

I also was using the 3x JK's.

[AviarX]

different strokes for different folks. there is more than one right way to get a thing done. i'm sticking with JK's.

pm me if you want to get rid of your old JK's

[the_kid]

different strokes for different folks. there is more than one right way to get a thing done. i'm sticking with JK's.

pm me if you want to get rid of your old JK's

The fact that I only know ONE 1000+ rated golfer who putts with SS putters is enough for me to "see the light" and use the right type of putters and that isn't SS's.

[citysmasher]

The fact that I only know ONE 1000+ rated golfer who putts with SS putters is enough for me to "see the light" and use the right type of putters and that isn't SS's.

I gotta agree with Scooter. Putting with a soft putter is like playing pool with a rope. [img]/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Although, the best putter I ever saw in person used a Gumbputt.

[davei]

You're in good company Rob. 1021 rated Micah Dorius is a JK putter. So is Dean Tannock. Steve Brinster, and at least a dozen more of our team players putt with a regular Aviar putter or some other soft putter like a SS or Soft Rhyno.

[atxdiscgolfer]

which team member putts with the soft Rhyno?

[the_kid]

You're in good company Rob. 1021 rated Micah Dorius is a JK putter. So is Dean Tannock. Steve Brinster, and at least a dozen more of our team players putt with a regular Aviar putter or some other soft putter like a SS or Soft Rhyno.

All the Innova guys I play with use KC's. Also Micah and Deano are pretty much throw putters.

[AviarX]

The fact that I only know ONE 1000+ rated golfer who putts with SS putters is enough for me to "see the light" and use the right type of putters and that isn't SS's.

oh really? is there also one kind of guitar great guitarists use or one type of baseball bat great hitters use?

or we can take your argument, but then let's apply it this way: i guess you had better start putting with Aviars fast. How many USDGC's and Open World Championships does the Aviar have verses whatever it is you putt with?

[AviarX]

You're in good company Rob. 1021 rated Micah Dorius is a JK putter. So is Dean Tannock. Steve Brinster, and at least a dozen more of our team players putt with a regular Aviar putter or some other soft putter like a SS or Soft Rhyno.

i hear the guy who created the Aero and the Aviar also putts with JK Aviars too -- and though he may not consider putting one of his strengths, i am fairly confident he has more technical knowledge about discs & throwing techniques than Blake T.

while there's nothing wrong with preferring hard putters or with a coach (Blake) trying to talk his student (Matt) into using the kind of putter he happens to prefer by stressing the advantages -- it is worth keeping in mind that hard and soft putters have their strengths and weaknesses. Al Schack pointed that out to me during the final round of the Masters at Idlewild last year (he putts with KC Aviars and i use JK's)...

Matt if you believe in hard putters then that belief will only help you when you putt, but bear in mind what is best for you may not be best for player X.

[the_kid]

oh really? is there also one kind of guitar great guitarists use or one type of baseball bat great hitters use?

or we can take your argument, but then let's apply it this way: i guess you had better start putting with Aviars fast. How many USDGC's and Open World Championships does the Aviar have verses whatever it is you putt with?

Sorry but I don't think the putter gave those guys the World Title. Also I think that "my" outter has won 2 world putting titles in the Open division.

I know it may not be better for everyone but it is better for nearly every player who plans on learning to "pitch" putt.

[AviarX]

Sorry but I don't think the putter gave those guys the World Title.

okay, now apply that same logic to your suggestion that a hard putter is best for pitch putting.
(it's a preference of yours that does not necessarily apply to others)

Matt, if and when you move up to Innova sponsorship you can use KC Aviars

...now back to your regularly scheduled Dave Dunipace Innova expertise...

[the_kid]

okay, now apply that same logic to your suggestion that a hard putter is best for pitch putting.
(it's a preference of yours that does not necessarily apply to others)

I don't think it was the putter(mold) that gave them the win. Then again they all do putt with firm putters and are all basically pitch putters.

Most really good putters are pitch putters and of all the good pitch putters 99% use firm putters.

[Drew32]

Wait a second, whats pitch putting?

[AviarX]

Wait a second, whats pitch putting?

Pitch putt vs. spin putt

check out this post too!

[scooop08]

Steve Brinster putts with classic aviar and occasionally jumps with a ss omege and never has used a jk

[AviarX]

isn't that what Dave said

Dave D:
You're in good company Rob. 1021 rated Micah Dorius is a JK putter. So is Dean Tannock. Steve Brinster, and at least a dozen more of our team players putt with a regular Aviar putter or some other soft putter like a SS or Soft Rhyno.

[JHBlader86]

When it comes to KC's and JK's it is really more of a preference. I have used both putters and I prefer the JK because I can get more control with the disc due to being able to grip it. The KC's were great for mid-shots, but I couldnt grip that thing to save my life, and if I played in cold weather then the disc would constantly bounce out. I picked up a JK and I have never looked back. I am able to do more with the JK than I ever could with the KC. But I dont knock the KC because it is more about preference, and if most prefer stiffer plastic then so be it. I'm sticking with the JK's because I feel more confident in my putting with this disc than other putter.