Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs - Page 145

Lyle O Ross · Jan 06 2006, 11:19 AM

Dave

I noticed that the Star Beast is now out. Is this the new mold or the old? I'm assuming new, but wanted to ask. Also, is it more or less stable than the Champion version (or the same

)

discndat · Jan 06 2006, 11:27 AM

"Gnarly" and "messed up" are the same - these discs were not smooth on the top - you could see and feel very clearly the spot where I guess they come out of the mold; it was kind of like spackling put on a wall and not smoothed out completely. I hope that explains it better. But as Dave said, that should have been caught at the factory. But I know we are all human and you can't catch everything. I can send them back to the East Coast, no problem.

rtinsa · Jan 06 2006, 11:28 AM

So did I read correctly that you guy's are discontinuing the pro wraith's?

seewhere · Jan 06 2006, 11:45 AM

RT I think everything is headed into the SB plastic. probably cheaper to make when you can mix plastics

davei · Jan 06 2006, 12:27 PM

R_T_we are not discontinuing the Pro Wraith. So far, the only Pro discs that have been discontinued are the Pro Birdie and Pro Orc. We will discontinue any models that don't sell this year. That may happen because of the Star plastic. If any Pro model continues to sell, we will continue to produce it.

Greatzky2 · Jan 06 2006, 12:42 PM

discndat: oh. i gotcha. all of the SB rocs that i recieved from last years fund raiser were all like that although it never effected the flight pattern. Even the Proline Gremlin and a few other discs i have have that on them...

-Scott Lewis

davei · Jan 06 2006, 02:33 PM

Lyle, sorry I missed your post earlier. The Star Beasts are the new type and are about the same as the new Champion type.

20460chase · Jan 06 2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

discndat, those should have been xed out. Yes, that sounds like operator error both in getting the disc out and marking it properly. It got by the hotstampers and shippers too, which is another concern.

Ill take that job. It wont happen again.

Jan 06 2006, 08:59 PM

Dave, what is different about the old raven's vs. the viper's (95'ish) I have a couple of each and I've made measurements all over and can't find anything they don't share, they even fly the same...

Just curious

AviarX · Jan 06 2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

discndat, those should have been xed out. Yes, that sounds like operator error both in getting the disc out and marking it properly. It got by the hotstampers and shippers too, which is another concern.

Ill take that job. It wont happen again.

i was thinking along the lines of making me the quality guy. problem is i would want to inspect each disc with a magnifying glass and test grip each one

that might slow down production to one disc per minute (not per machine either -- per the whole building)

[img]/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

plus i would want to double weigh every disc. that wouldn't work either. i wonder if they come down a conveyer belt onto a scale and then someone picks up the disc and writes the weight

also chase -- wouldn't it be hard to let any of the discs part from your company?

davei · Jan 07 2006, 07:16 AM

10up, the Raven and Viper were similar discs like the Whippet and Cheetah or Gazelle. Depending on which vintage you got of each one, they could look similar, but the lower part of each was different. The engraving might be different to reflect that. The lower out edge was different too. If those parts are not just a little different, then you have the same disc that has been mismarked.

toohigh · Jan 07 2006, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Sounds to me like they already are. Were you raised by wolves or something?

Just my opinion....sorry you felt the need to flame me. Hopefully you feel better. If not, please try again.

I was raised in Pennsyltucky...and yes, we would have eaten you alive.

riverdog · Jan 07 2006, 11:19 AM

Had you read up thread, oh maybe a page, you would have seen where Dave discussed the exact "QA" issues you zinged him on. Dave's a big boy and can take care of himself, but I found your comment rude, particularly when addressed to someone volunteering freely of their time on this very public forum. Consequently he probably didn't need me stepping in to defend any more than he needed you to advise. My apologies if I was too thin skinned. There. Now I feel better.

Pennsyltucky huh? South Georgia here. You wouldn't have been satisfied with the meal. Mostly gristle.

Plankeye · Jan 08 2006, 10:08 AM

Quick Questions

Why does the stamp on the Pro orc have "Pro line" but the other Pro discs just have the word "pro" on the stamp. Is it because there have been Pro Line(pre champion plastic) versions of these discs?

davei · Jan 08 2006, 08:27 PM

plankeye, it was a goof by a former graphic artist that got by the rest of us. Nothing intentional. I believe that mistake was made more than once.

xterramatt · Jan 08 2006, 08:58 PM

Pro Line Cobra.

I think that was it.

AviarX · Jan 08 2006, 10:04 PM

Dave, when you have a shot that you could go with the JK Aviar-x or the Coyote to reach, what are the deciding factors about which one you use? Would you rather throw a Coyote at 85% or a JK Aviar at 100% ?

davei · Jan 09 2006, 08:41 AM

Rob, the deciding factor would be whatever I felt comfortable with at the time. Usually the wind or potential obstacles would play in the decision. I had this very scenario this weekend at the NorCal SoCal challenge. There was a headwind on a less than 300 ft hole. One round I chose a Coyote, the other an Aviar. Same result. Unfortunately it was an excessively turned shot both times, but it does tend to show the interchangeability of the discs for me.

ChrisWoj · Jan 09 2006, 08:58 AM

A few comments and questions for you, Dave...

1. When will the Star Wraith's be sent out around the states to individual disc dealers? I can't wait to get my hands on one.

2. You mentioned your concern over the DX Wraith... my Pro Wraith has lasted through more trees, more signs, more everything than any Pro disc I have thrown. The rim seems denser, more compact... I can't imagine the DX Wraith being too easy to beat the hell out of.

3. Side note: My StarWinder is as smooth as a baby's skin, no issues with "spackle" so it may have just been one isolated group that was missed.

4. How are the Star Aeros throwing in comparison with the Champion Aeros? I'm a huge fan of the Aero for any time where I *must* have turnover no matter what (short range).

5. Innova is a really conservative company in terms of disc design... I've now seen three other companies go very unusual routes with their discs... You have small players like Aerobie and DiscWing doing unusual but interesting things with drivers. Now I've seen Discraft products from ace race that are just... odd... with incredible dips just inside the rim... Is Innova working on anything really far-out or different in terms of molds? Something completely different that could add new levels of speed or glide to the discs? Or would you have to kill us if you told us?

Anyway... thats all I've got! Have a nice day, sun's up time for some beautifully bitter cold disc!

ellswrth · Jan 09 2006, 10:36 AM

I have found my Pro Wraiths are a little better than most of the Pro discs I've had in the past as well. However, they do break in after hitting a number of trees.

I just received a couple of Star Wraiths from discgolfvalues.com and I can't wait to throw them! (Unfortunately I have a split in the skin of a finger on my throwing hand, so I have to wait a few days)

I like how the Champion Wraith keeps it's flight characteristics and flies just like the Pro Wraiths when they are new. Great for long, annie shots that settle nicely. Hopefully the Star Wraith will work out similarly.

================
On a different note, Dave. How was the Norcal-Socal Challenge? I didn't qualify this year, but I haven't heard any details at all. How did it go?

davei · Jan 09 2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

A few comments and questions for you, Dave...

1. When will the Star Wraith's be sent out around the states to individual disc dealers? I can't wait to get my hands on one.

They should be out now.

2. You mentioned your concern over the DX Wraith... my Pro Wraith has lasted through more trees, more signs, more everything than any Pro disc I have thrown. The rim seems denser, more compact... I can't imagine the DX Wraith being too easy to beat the hell out of.

3. Side note: My StarWinder is as smooth as a baby's skin, no issues with "spackle" so it may have just been one isolated group that was missed.

4. How are the Star Aeros throwing in comparison with the Champion Aeros? I'm a huge fan of the Aero for any time where I *must* have turnover no matter what (short range).

The Star Aeros are very straight. Point and shoot. Turnovers stay over.

5. Innova is a really conservative company in terms of disc design... I've now seen three other companies go very unusual routes with their discs... You have small players like Aerobie and DiscWing doing unusual but interesting things with drivers. Now I've seen Discraft products from ace race that are just... odd... with incredible dips just inside the rim... Is Innova working on anything really far-out or different in terms of molds? Something completely different that could add new levels of speed or glide to the discs? Or would you have to kill us if you told us?

Have to kill you.

Anyway... thats all I've got! Have a nice day, sun's up time for some beautifully bitter cold disc!

davei · Jan 09 2006, 11:51 AM

NorCal SoCal was great. The weather was perfect for a change. The course played great. The tri tip was yummy. There was a little wind to add to the challenge. I am not sure who won yet. There were two cards still out when I left. We were ahead by two points, but that is nothing with two cards left.

hawkgammon · Jan 09 2006, 12:24 PM

Dave,

I just noticed on the Innova site where the Spider and Shark are lumped together on flight chart indicating similarity. However when the numbers were expanded last year the Spider went to -1/+1 compared to the Sharks 0/2. Should the Spider be one column over to the right with the Coyote, or is this your way of saying a Spider is more Shark like than Coyoteish?

davei · Jan 09 2006, 01:32 PM

Hawk, I think the vertical is pragmatic in order to fit five discs across. The horizontal axis is from more overstable on the left to understable on the right. The discs don't always line up vertically. I would say the Spider is more Coyote-ish than Shark-like. The Coyote has more carry than the Spider.

the_kid · Jan 09 2006, 06:09 PM

I found a KC Pro Roc in my back room this weekend and it was missing the # of world titles around the edge. Do you know why this happened since it doen't look like a misstamp.

Also how much are the 1st run Starfires from the 03 usdgc going for and how do they fly?

rhett · Jan 09 2006, 06:14 PM

You should give 1st run Starfires to me.

Do you hear the little noise when you lightly drag your finger across the disc?

quickdisc · Jan 09 2006, 06:17 PM

Hey Dave , did the original Monster have a picture of Frankeinsteins monster , for the hotstamp ?

the_kid · Jan 09 2006, 06:17 PM

Yeah snnnaaapppppp!!!!!

xterramatt · Jan 09 2006, 07:04 PM

we have some of the zippers, Rhett. Waiting to be Zone Driven stamped. Not many, but a few.

davei · Jan 09 2006, 09:06 PM

Only the DX have pictures. No DX Monsters yet.

Jan 06 2006, 11:19 AM	#4321
Lyle O Ross PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Texas, where it floods, all the time Posts: 3,403	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! Dave I noticed that the Star Beast is now out. Is this the new mold or the old? I'm assuming new, but wanted to ask. Also, is it more or less stable than the Champion version (or the same )

Jan 06 2006, 11:27 AM	#4322
discndat PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 188	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! "Gnarly" and "messed up" are the same - these discs were not smooth on the top - you could see and feel very clearly the spot where I guess they come out of the mold; it was kind of like spackling put on a wall and not smoothed out completely. I hope that explains it better. But as Dave said, that should have been caught at the factory. But I know we are all human and you can't catch everything. I can send them back to the East Coast, no problem. __________________ Get all your disc golf gear at Disc 'n Dat Check out the Disc 'n Dat Tournaments

Jan 06 2006, 11:28 AM	#4323
rtinsa Membership Expired Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Braunfels, Texas Posts: 1,304	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! So did I read correctly that you guy's are discontinuing the pro wraith's? __________________ I see stupid people www.myspace.com/texasbbqrock -------------------

Jan 06 2006, 11:45 AM	#4324
seewhere PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, TX Ninja Posts: 14,043	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! RT I think everything is headed into the SB plastic. probably cheaper to make when you can mix plastics

Jan 06 2006, 12:27 PM	#4325
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! R_T_we are not discontinuing the Pro Wraith. So far, the only Pro discs that have been discontinued are the Pro Birdie and Pro Orc. We will discontinue any models that don't sell this year. That may happen because of the Star plastic. If any Pro model continues to sell, we will continue to produce it. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Jan 06 2006, 12:42 PM	#4326
Greatzky2 Community Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: South Jersey Posts: 379	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! discndat: oh. i gotcha. all of the SB rocs that i recieved from last years fund raiser were all like that although it never effected the flight pattern. Even the Proline Gremlin and a few other discs i have have that on them... -Scott Lewis

Jan 06 2006, 02:33 PM	#4327
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! Lyle, sorry I missed your post earlier. The Star Beasts are the new type and are about the same as the new Champion type. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Jan 06 2006, 08:59 PM	#4329
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! Dave, what is different about the old raven's vs. the viper's (95'ish) I have a couple of each and I've made measurements all over and can't find anything they don't share, they even fly the same... Just curious

Jan 07 2006, 07:16 AM	#4331
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! 10up, the Raven and Viper were similar discs like the Whippet and Cheetah or Gazelle. Depending on which vintage you got of each one, they could look similar, but the lower part of each was different. The engraving might be different to reflect that. The lower out edge was different too. If those parts are not just a little different, then you have the same disc that has been mismarked. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Jan 07 2006, 11:19 AM	#4333
riverdog Membership Expired Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Yadkinville, NC Posts: 2,091	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! Had you read up thread, oh maybe a page, you would have seen where Dave discussed the exact "QA" issues you zinged him on. Dave's a big boy and can take care of himself, but I found your comment rude, particularly when addressed to someone volunteering freely of their time on this very public forum. Consequently he probably didn't need me stepping in to defend any more than he needed you to advise. My apologies if I was too thin skinned. There. Now I feel better. Pennsyltucky huh? South Georgia here. You wouldn't have been satisfied with the meal. Mostly gristle. __________________ In dog we trust! 1992 - Year of the Advanced Master

Jan 08 2006, 10:08 AM	#4334
Plankeye PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Winston Salem, NC Posts: 1,395	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! Quick Questions Why does the stamp on the Pro orc have "Pro line" but the other Pro discs just have the word "pro" on the stamp. Is it because there have been Pro Line(pre champion plastic) versions of these discs?

Jan 08 2006, 08:27 PM	#4335
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! plankeye, it was a goof by a former graphic artist that got by the rest of us. Nothing intentional. I believe that mistake was made more than once. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Jan 08 2006, 08:58 PM	#4336
xterramatt PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USDGC Country Posts: 3,096	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! Pro Line Cobra. I think that was it. __________________ feeling so frustrated even antiquated 'cause you can't update me if i'm overrated

Jan 08 2006, 10:04 PM	#4337
AviarX PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: northwest of Indianapolis Posts: 2,504	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! Dave, when you have a shot that you could go with the JK Aviar-x or the Coyote to reach, what are the deciding factors about which one you use? Would you rather throw a Coyote at 85% or a JK Aviar at 100% ?

Jan 09 2006, 08:41 AM	#4338
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! Rob, the deciding factor would be whatever I felt comfortable with at the time. Usually the wind or potential obstacles would play in the decision. I had this very scenario this weekend at the NorCal SoCal challenge. There was a headwind on a less than 300 ft hole. One round I chose a Coyote, the other an Aviar. Same result. Unfortunately it was an excessively turned shot both times, but it does tend to show the interchangeability of the discs for me. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Jan 09 2006, 08:58 AM	#4339
ChrisWoj PDGA Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 2,387	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! A few comments and questions for you, Dave... 1. When will the Star Wraith's be sent out around the states to individual disc dealers? I can't wait to get my hands on one. 2. You mentioned your concern over the DX Wraith... my Pro Wraith has lasted through more trees, more signs, more everything than any Pro disc I have thrown. The rim seems denser, more compact... I can't imagine the DX Wraith being too easy to beat the hell out of. 3. Side note: My StarWinder is as smooth as a baby's skin, no issues with "spackle" so it may have just been one isolated group that was missed. 4. How are the Star Aeros throwing in comparison with the Champion Aeros? I'm a huge fan of the Aero for any time where I must have turnover no matter what (short range). 5. Innova is a really conservative company in terms of disc design... I've now seen three other companies go very unusual routes with their discs... You have small players like Aerobie and DiscWing doing unusual but interesting things with drivers. Now I've seen Discraft products from ace race that are just... odd... with incredible dips just inside the rim... Is Innova working on anything really far-out or different in terms of molds? Something completely different that could add new levels of speed or glide to the discs? Or would you have to kill us if you told us? Anyway... thats all I've got! Have a nice day, sun's up time for some beautifully bitter cold disc!

Jan 09 2006, 10:36 AM	#4340
ellswrth PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 372	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! I have found my Pro Wraiths are a little better than most of the Pro discs I've had in the past as well. However, they do break in after hitting a number of trees. I just received a couple of Star Wraiths from discgolfvalues.com and I can't wait to throw them! (Unfortunately I have a split in the skin of a finger on my throwing hand, so I have to wait a few days) I like how the Champion Wraith keeps it's flight characteristics and flies just like the Pro Wraiths when they are new. Great for long, annie shots that settle nicely. Hopefully the Star Wraith will work out similarly. ================ On a different note, Dave. How was the Norcal-Socal Challenge? I didn't qualify this year, but I haven't heard any details at all. How did it go?

Jan 09 2006, 11:51 AM	#4342
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! NorCal SoCal was great. The weather was perfect for a change. The course played great. The tri tip was yummy. There was a little wind to add to the challenge. I am not sure who won yet. There were two cards still out when I left. We were ahead by two points, but that is nothing with two cards left. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Jan 09 2006, 12:24 PM	#4343
hawkgammon Account Suspended Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Belgium Posts: 3,333	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! Dave, I just noticed on the Innova site where the Spider and Shark are lumped together on flight chart indicating similarity. However when the numbers were expanded last year the Spider went to -1/+1 compared to the Sharks 0/2. Should the Spider be one column over to the right with the Coyote, or is this your way of saying a Spider is more Shark like than Coyoteish?

Jan 09 2006, 01:32 PM	#4344
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! Hawk, I think the vertical is pragmatic in order to fit five discs across. The horizontal axis is from more overstable on the left to understable on the right. The discs don't always line up vertically. I would say the Spider is more Coyote-ish than Shark-like. The Coyote has more carry than the Spider. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Jan 09 2006, 06:09 PM	#4345
the_kid PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Livingston(Hicksville),Tx Posts: 7,285	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! I found a KC Pro Roc in my back room this weekend and it was missing the # of world titles around the edge. Do you know why this happened since it doen't look like a misstamp. Also how much are the 1st run Starfires from the 03 usdgc going for and how do they fly? __________________ Southern Nationals - best events for players who like a true "Non-profit" and a real Finale www.Discraft.com

Jan 09 2006, 06:14 PM	#4346
rhett PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ignoramusville Posts: 7,032	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! You should give 1st run Starfires to me. Do you hear the little noise when you lightly drag your finger across the disc?

Jan 09 2006, 06:17 PM	#4347
quickdisc PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: America\'s Finest City SD,CA. Posts: 6,186	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! Hey Dave , did the original Monster have a picture of Frankeinsteins monster , for the hotstamp ?

Jan 09 2006, 06:17 PM	#4348
the_kid PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Livingston(Hicksville),Tx Posts: 7,285	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! Yeah snnnaaapppppp!!!!! __________________ Southern Nationals - best events for players who like a true "Non-profit" and a real Finale www.Discraft.com

Jan 09 2006, 07:04 PM	#4349
xterramatt PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USDGC Country Posts: 3,096	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! we have some of the zippers, Rhett. Waiting to be Zone Driven stamped. Not many, but a few. __________________ feeling so frustrated even antiquated 'cause you can't update me if i'm overrated

Jan 09 2006, 09:06 PM	#4350
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D About Innova Here!!!!!!!!!! Only the DX have pictures. No DX Monsters yet. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode