Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

Dave do you draw your die on a cad program or anything of that nature?

[jaymo]

Yeah... who knows... I weighed it at school on an analytical balence and it's more ike 153g but it has an "O" on the bottom, so maybe it's just a freak

thanks anyways Dave

[davei]

matchu, yes. CAD-CAM

very interesting.....
if you ever need some drafting don't hesitate to ask. I have been for 10 years

[veganray]

I threw Champion Orcs for distance at VA States last weekend. 2 Xouts 149 & 150 & 3 non Xouts 154, 154, & 154 (all weighed on calibrated lab balance). All were factory marked 150 on the underside.

[jeterdawg]

Sounds like some more night shift Orcs to me!

[davei]

Paul sorry didn't see this post earlier. We haven't done any testing on the candy Ram as yet. Not scheduled at all at this time.

[davei]

sorry Circle 2, I didn't see this post either. To answer the question: Generally, the faster the driver, the more critical the nose angle is. The TeeBird is slightly less nose sensitive than the Valkyrie. The Orc, Beast, Starfire, Monster are the most nose sensitive, meaning: you need to get the nose down or you will exaggerate the low speed overstability and hurt your distance and accuracy. The best tip I can give you for keeping the nose down, is to whip late as possible with an open wrist. Also make sure your disc comes through your swing high under your chin so that you don't pull up at the whip.

I also have an X-out Champion Orc, marked as 150. It is a very useful disc, but not what I expected. It is as flippy as my 150 Champion Valks, but faster (and thus slightly longer).

[Kenja]

Are you planning to shift all Champion lines to the SB plastic? What molds will you be running the SB plastic in first? And, any plans on making a CFR Starfire-L? The Pro SF-L is such a sweet disc!

Thanks!

[davei]

Kenja we don't have any specific plans regarding the SB, but we are trying to get more colors that do the same thing to the mix. We already did make some CFR Ls. They will be available through the CFR program soon.

cfr-L? sign me up, my same-weight champion sidewinder is more stable now than my pro-starfire, of course i didnt smack a power pole two nites in a row with my sidewinder
the cfr starfire from last year is still going strong....

[jaymo]

Dave,

The "first run" Pro Aviars from last year, are there still a bunch kickin around? hav eyou guys made any new runs, ones that don't have the "first run" written on them?

Are you going to make a new run anytime soon, with the newer plastic?

thanks

[davei]

Jaymo, we have only made one run of Pro Aviars. There are still a bunch around, but I don't know what they have written on them. We are not scheduled to make a new run soon.

[flynvegas]

Zonedriven has some Pro Aviars with Zonedriven stamp. I'm using one now, very nice.

[hawkgammon]

Dave,

I've heard several players refer to discs like the Beast as being overstable. Is a disc considered overstable or understable based on how much low speed fade it has, or how much high speed turn it has? A Beast at -2 turn would seem understable on one hand, but the +3 fade would seem overstable.

Dave, have you guys had any SB sidewinders run? I think that is what I have.

Also -- Can you or will you re-release the gremlin?!? Granted, its hard for Innova to release a midrange that can compete with everyone's favorite, the ROC, but the Gremlin NEEDS to be around! I need some more! Even if they are CFR, please make em!

i agree. gremlins rock, it's just too bad they're so hard to find now. i think there would be a considerable demand for them in the cfr program.

[Parkntwoputt]

Hawk,

Yeah I feel the same as you do. While I try not to base my descriptions on disc by manufacturers ratings rather my own experiences. I agree that the Beast has more high speed turn and more low speed fade then lets say the Orc. I carry both in my bag. For me the go about the same distance, just that the Orc has a straighter flight path then the Beast. I say the Beast is understable. Our course pro says the Beast is overstable because of the amount of fade.

I think Dave will explain the way the discs are intended but everyone has their own interpretations. I think the fact that most of the faster throwers down here throw Orcs instead of Beasts proves their stability as being less stable.

If this helps, hopefully it did not confuse anyone else.

[davei]

Hawk, as you say there are two different stability types. High speed turn, and low speed overstability. The Beast would not be considered an overstable disc just because of the low speed overstability. Practically every disc, and certainly every driver, has some low speed over stability. The term should probably be "fade" instead of "overstable". The label "overstable driver" is usually used for discs like Monsters, Firebirds, Rams, Whippets, Vipers etc.

[davei]

aj, what type of Gremlin are you interested in? Probably the only ones we would do in a limited run would be candy. I don't remember any SB Sidewinders being run.

hi dave,
whats the difference between the plastic in the old SE valkyries, and the old early run 4x JK Pro valkyries with the 'bar stamp'?

[hawkgammon]

Thanks Dave.

Next question. Would you consider the Classic Roc more stable than the Spider? I see that the ratings for the Spider have been updated to -1/+1 while the Classic Roc is listed as 0/+2.

Thanks.

pro line/champion gremlins would be great. the dx are ok, but they beat up too quickly and lose their predictability. i'd buy a few if they came out as cfr discs

I don't know about CFR but a limited run with a cool stamp would work!

[davei]

toolniz, Sorry, I don't remember when we switched the plastic, but at some point, we went from the SE, which was a Pro type plastic, to the JK Pro Valk in candy plastic. I don't remember if we did it on the first run or not, but I think we did. Although the plastic could have been opaque, it was probably candy anyway.

[davei]

Hawk, yes the Classic is more stable, especially since the mold was cleaned up about a year ago to fly like the original release. Over the years, the Classic was becoming more and more like the XD. The clean up took care of that. They are now very distinct, like the originals. As for the low speed overstability numbers; the +2 for the Roc is probably more like a +1.5, but we don't use half numbers.

Dave, thanks for the SF info. I went and got another one. When I hold up the 2 CFR's together, one edge looks like a teebird T at the top of its rim (where the bottom rim sweeps up to meet the outer edge)-same shape/sweep, but with no tiny little bead, though. The other meets the top edge like a TL. Could you tell me which is witch? Funny, i was first noticing a possibly SLIGHT difference in the bottom edge of the rim and was thinking about what u said bout how hard it was to tell the difference, then i tryed the simple T-TL edge pinch rub test that quickly tells the diff bet T's and TL's and now its simple to tell between these. BUT, both discs are newer and i don't know. I would guess based in the line -holding qualities you gave the 2nd run that the teebird-like one is the 2nd run. Any help?

[davei]

Roc Steady, it sounds like you have it right. The TeeBird like edge is the current CFR Starfire. The other has been discontinued, however the new Pro Starfire version is more like the TL and easier to tell the difference.

[Parkntwoputt]

This must explain why the 2004 Texas Teams Starfire I have looks nothing like the 200? Birmingham Tax Tourney Starfire I also own.

When I was given the Texas Team disc, I did not know what it was and did not have the opportunity to throw it for 3 days. On the rim it looked closest to a Beast, nothing like an Orc, and not really close to my other Starfire. But it flew like a Starfire, if not it is the MOST overstable Beast I have ever thrown.

Dave, do you know if the 2004 Texas Team disc is a Starfire? I could not find any writing on the bottom.