Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs - Page 114

Mar 04 2005, 11:18 PM

Hey Dave,
When did the Starfire switch molds? I've got a first run from '03 Worlds which I like, and I'd like to try one of the new molds to compare. If I bought one from a 2004 tournament, would I be getting a new or old mold, or is there no way of telling?
Thanks

Plankeye · Mar 05 2005, 03:36 AM

The 2004 is the new mold.

Mar 05 2005, 10:55 PM

Dave,
Just to clear this up... which Sidewinders are first-runs? The star stamps? or can the regular stamped ones be first-runs too?

Thanks!

mf100forever · Mar 06 2005, 05:21 AM

Dave have answered that question a while ago (somewhere on this thread I think), but anyway:
There is only one run of Sidewinders made.. so far, most of them have regular/ generic stamps.

Mar 06 2005, 01:55 PM

and there a ton of 1st runs in existence from what i understand. also the star stamp is by far the rarer of the two.

davei · Mar 07 2005, 08:46 AM

mf100, the Phoenix was retooled from the Aero mold in 1988. I don't remember any retooling. The mold still exists, but is retired. There were only a few runs as it wasn't very popular for anything except distance and the Viper superceded it as a distance disc late 91.

davei · Mar 07 2005, 08:52 AM

DGDD, The Starfire was slightly altered to an X version after the first run. The two can be distinguished if held up next to each other, but it would be difficult otherwise. The X version is slightly more concave on the beveled edge.

Mar 07 2005, 04:16 PM

a small run of the Phoenix would be cool. i dont know if i've ever thrown one

was that the disc Sam set the distance record with years ago?

flynvegas · Mar 07 2005, 05:04 PM

Yes, the Phenix is the disc Sam set his record with. I used to throw one, got a skip ace with one in a New Years tournament. It was a larger diameter disc, sort of like a big Whippet.

jaymo · Mar 08 2005, 11:52 AM

Dave, I know this has been discussed before on the forum. Personally I really like Innova's rating systems. The only problem I see, is having the same rating for the same mold in different plastics... are we supposed to believe the Pro Orc and the Champion Orc have the same stability???

I dunno, it doesn't really matter, I usually will borrow/buy a new disc anyways to try it out, but maybe it's something that could be improved upon...

Mar 08 2005, 03:23 PM

Dave,

I apologize if you've already answered this, but I couldn't find the answer, looking through recent weeks of the thread. I recently saw what appeared to be 11-time KC Rocs without the usual line of text identifying them as such. Is this a new run of 11x rocs, or just an alternate stamp? Also, are they at all rare? Thanks.

Mar 08 2005, 03:44 PM

Those don't have the worlds champion line on them because Climo did not win Worlds that year. I think it is the batch of KC Rocs that came out after the 11x.

disclaimer: I could be wrong though.

Plankeye · Mar 08 2005, 03:46 PM

Drew...i think those came out before the 11x Stamp. They aren't too rare as I used to see a lot of them at PIAS around town.

davei · Mar 08 2005, 04:04 PM

Jaymo, we have a disclaimer for Pro drivers being less overstable and longer gliding than their DX or Champion counterparts, in the rating stystim.

davei · Mar 08 2005, 04:25 PM

Drew, if their is no signature, it is a new run.

Plankeye · Mar 08 2005, 05:04 PM

Dave,

There were some non-11x stamped rocs before the 11x stamp was out.

Are you saying that you went back to the plain stamp now or what?

davei · Mar 08 2005, 06:35 PM

The KC Pro stamp, no longer has a signature. I believe it says Eleven Time now, but there might have been some previous 11 time era KC Rocs that didn't say 11 time or have a signature.

Plankeye · Mar 08 2005, 07:03 PM

thanks

moolie · Mar 08 2005, 07:18 PM

Hey Dave

So what does the guru of Innova have in his bag these days?

NEngle · Mar 08 2005, 07:34 PM

Dave,

I just picked up an Innova/DTW disc and am looking for a little background info. The Copyright date on the top is 1987 and the stamp is from the '95 world's biggest. It lists all the cities and then numbers out to the side. I assume the numbers are attendance, and someone told me it looks like a 44 mold. Is that right?

davei · Mar 08 2005, 08:43 PM

moolie, I carry two JK Aviars, a candy Leopard, 2 candy Sidewinders, 2 candy Vikings, 1 candy Gator, 2 Pro Starfires, a CFR Starfire, a candy TeeBird, and a Pro Shark/ or Roc.

davei · Mar 08 2005, 08:46 PM

NEngle, if it has flight rings and resembles a Viper, it is a 44 mold. It could be one of several different discs.

flynvegas · Mar 08 2005, 10:35 PM

I think I've got one of these that is a Stingray.

NEngle · Mar 08 2005, 11:53 PM

Thanks Dave. Yep, has the flight rings.

Mar 09 2005, 01:50 AM

Quote:

moolie, I carry two JK Aviars, a candy Leopard, 2 candy Sidewinders, 2 candy Vikings, 1 candy Gator, 2 Pro Starfires, a CFR Starfire, a candy TeeBird, and a Pro Shark/ or Roc.

wow! no Champion, no Pro, no DX, or night-shift ... Orcs!

Just curious, what do you use when you want distance but are forced (perhaps by the lie) to throw forehand?

davei · Mar 09 2005, 08:13 AM

flynvegas, that was the 77, I think. The 78 was like a Cobra.

davei · Mar 09 2005, 08:16 AM

robj, I was throwing Orcs, but the Pro Starfires replaced them for me. I use the Starfires for sidearm distance too. The Champion Viking is my usual sidearm disc.

md21954 · Mar 09 2005, 02:35 PM

dave,

apologies if this has been addressed before. this thread is huge!

is there a neutral weight for discs? in other words, when making discs, is there a weight that you tend to work from when making them weigh more or less? if there is, i imagine it might be different for various discs-- if so, what's the variance for drivers, mids and putters (any driver, rocs and aviars)?

if not, is it more challenging to target consistency for lower or higher weights?

thanks much

davei · Mar 09 2005, 03:12 PM

md21954, there is a neutral weight for discs in each plastic type corresponding to its specific gravity. The specific gravity of DX is approximately .920 or lighter than water at 1.0 gms/cc. Champion and Pro plastics are heavier than water. It is hardest to mold at the maximum weight as the variance from disc to disc can be several grams at times and discs that go over have to be recycled. It doesn't matter if the disc is a driver, mid, or putter.

davei · Mar 09 2005, 03:23 PM

md21954, there is a neutral weight for discs in each plastic type corresponding to its specific gravity. The specific gravity of DX is approximately .920 or lighter than water at 1.0 gms/cc. Champion and Pro plastics are heavier than water. It is hardest to mold at the maximum weight as the variance from disc to disc can be several grams at times and discs that go over have to be recycled.

Mar 04 2005, 11:18 PM	#3391
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Question for Dave D Hey Dave, When did the Starfire switch molds? I've got a first run from '03 Worlds which I like, and I'd like to try one of the new molds to compare. If I bought one from a 2004 tournament, would I be getting a new or old mold, or is there no way of telling? Thanks

Mar 05 2005, 03:36 AM	#3392
Plankeye PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Winston Salem, NC Posts: 1,395	Re: Question for Dave D The 2004 is the new mold.

Mar 05 2005, 10:55 PM	#3393
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Question for Dave D Dave, Just to clear this up... which Sidewinders are first-runs? The star stamps? or can the regular stamped ones be first-runs too? Thanks!

Mar 06 2005, 05:21 AM	#3394
mf100forever PDGA Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lulea Sweden Posts: 752	Re: Question for Dave D Dave have answered that question a while ago (somewhere on this thread I think), but anyway: There is only one run of Sidewinders made.. so far, most of them have regular/ generic stamps. __________________ (Disc)-gracefully yours, MF100forever # 3418 http://www.discgolfsweden.se/english/index.aspx

Mar 06 2005, 01:55 PM	#3395
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Question for Dave D and there a ton of 1st runs in existence from what i understand. also the star stamp is by far the rarer of the two.

Mar 07 2005, 08:46 AM	#3396
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D mf100, the Phoenix was retooled from the Aero mold in 1988. I don't remember any retooling. The mold still exists, but is retired. There were only a few runs as it wasn't very popular for anything except distance and the Viper superceded it as a distance disc late 91. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Mar 07 2005, 08:52 AM	#3397
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D DGDD, The Starfire was slightly altered to an X version after the first run. The two can be distinguished if held up next to each other, but it would be difficult otherwise. The X version is slightly more concave on the beveled edge. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Mar 07 2005, 04:16 PM	#3398
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Question for Dave D a small run of the Phoenix would be cool. i dont know if i've ever thrown one was that the disc Sam set the distance record with years ago?

Mar 07 2005, 05:04 PM	#3399
flynvegas PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 1,449	Re: Question for Dave D Yes, the Phenix is the disc Sam set his record with. I used to throw one, got a skip ace with one in a New Years tournament. It was a larger diameter disc, sort of like a big Whippet.

Mar 08 2005, 11:52 AM	#3400
jaymo Membership Expired Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 458	Re: Question for Dave D Dave, I know this has been discussed before on the forum. Personally I really like Innova's rating systems. The only problem I see, is having the same rating for the same mold in different plastics... are we supposed to believe the Pro Orc and the Champion Orc have the same stability??? I dunno, it doesn't really matter, I usually will borrow/buy a new disc anyways to try it out, but maybe it's something that could be improved upon... __________________ You won't eat our meat, but you GLUUUUE with our feet.

Mar 08 2005, 03:23 PM	#3401
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Question for Dave D Dave, I apologize if you've already answered this, but I couldn't find the answer, looking through recent weeks of the thread. I recently saw what appeared to be 11-time KC Rocs without the usual line of text identifying them as such. Is this a new run of 11x rocs, or just an alternate stamp? Also, are they at all rare? Thanks.

Mar 08 2005, 03:44 PM	#3402
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Question for Dave D Those don't have the worlds champion line on them because Climo did not win Worlds that year. I think it is the batch of KC Rocs that came out after the 11x. disclaimer: I could be wrong though.

Mar 08 2005, 03:46 PM	#3403
Plankeye PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Winston Salem, NC Posts: 1,395	Re: Question for Dave D Drew...i think those came out before the 11x Stamp. They aren't too rare as I used to see a lot of them at PIAS around town.

Mar 08 2005, 04:04 PM	#3404
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D Jaymo, we have a disclaimer for Pro drivers being less overstable and longer gliding than their DX or Champion counterparts, in the rating stystim. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Mar 08 2005, 04:25 PM	#3405
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D Drew, if their is no signature, it is a new run. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Mar 08 2005, 05:04 PM	#3406
Plankeye PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Winston Salem, NC Posts: 1,395	Re: Question for Dave D Dave, There were some non-11x stamped rocs before the 11x stamp was out. Are you saying that you went back to the plain stamp now or what?

Mar 08 2005, 06:35 PM	#3407
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D The KC Pro stamp, no longer has a signature. I believe it says Eleven Time now, but there might have been some previous 11 time era KC Rocs that didn't say 11 time or have a signature. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Mar 08 2005, 07:03 PM	#3408
Plankeye PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Winston Salem, NC Posts: 1,395	Re: Question for Dave D thanks

Mar 08 2005, 07:18 PM	#3409
moolie Membership Expired Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 383	Re: Question for Dave D Hey Dave So what does the guru of Innova have in his bag these days? __________________ Team Par 72 http://www.par72discgolf.com/_Tim+Warner.html

Mar 08 2005, 07:34 PM	#3410
NEngle Community Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Harbin Park Posts: 295	Re: Question for Dave D Dave, I just picked up an Innova/DTW disc and am looking for a little background info. The Copyright date on the top is 1987 and the stamp is from the '95 world's biggest. It lists all the cities and then numbers out to the side. I assume the numbers are attendance, and someone told me it looks like a 44 mold. Is that right?

Mar 08 2005, 08:43 PM	#3411
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D moolie, I carry two JK Aviars, a candy Leopard, 2 candy Sidewinders, 2 candy Vikings, 1 candy Gator, 2 Pro Starfires, a CFR Starfire, a candy TeeBird, and a Pro Shark/ or Roc. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Mar 08 2005, 08:46 PM	#3412
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D NEngle, if it has flight rings and resembles a Viper, it is a 44 mold. It could be one of several different discs. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Mar 08 2005, 10:35 PM	#3413
flynvegas PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 1,449	Re: Question for Dave D I think I've got one of these that is a Stingray.

Mar 08 2005, 11:53 PM	#3414
NEngle Community Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Harbin Park Posts: 295	Re: Question for Dave D Thanks Dave. Yep, has the flight rings.

Mar 09 2005, 08:13 AM	#3416
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D flynvegas, that was the 77, I think. The 78 was like a Cobra. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Mar 09 2005, 08:16 AM	#3417
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D robj, I was throwing Orcs, but the Pro Starfires replaced them for me. I use the Starfires for sidearm distance too. The Champion Viking is my usual sidearm disc. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Mar 09 2005, 02:35 PM	#3418
md21954 Community Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: the land of pleasant living Posts: 1,987	Re: Question for Dave D dave, apologies if this has been addressed before. this thread is huge! is there a neutral weight for discs? in other words, when making discs, is there a weight that you tend to work from when making them weigh more or less? if there is, i imagine it might be different for various discs-- if so, what's the variance for drivers, mids and putters (any driver, rocs and aviars)? if not, is it more challenging to target consistency for lower or higher weights? thanks much

Mar 09 2005, 03:12 PM	#3419
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D md21954, there is a neutral weight for discs in each plastic type corresponding to its specific gravity. The specific gravity of DX is approximately .920 or lighter than water at 1.0 gms/cc. Champion and Pro plastics are heavier than water. It is hardest to mold at the maximum weight as the variance from disc to disc can be several grams at times and discs that go over have to be recycled. It doesn't matter if the disc is a driver, mid, or putter. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Mar 09 2005, 03:23 PM	#3420
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Question for Dave D md21954, there is a neutral weight for discs in each plastic type corresponding to its specific gravity. The specific gravity of DX is approximately .920 or lighter than water at 1.0 gms/cc. Champion and Pro plastics are heavier than water. It is hardest to mold at the maximum weight as the variance from disc to disc can be several grams at times and discs that go over have to be recycled. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

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