Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[davei]

Rob, yes, by torque resistance I mean damping out wobble of the disc at release. I would say that none of the off axis torque gets transfered into distance, but that there is an actual loss of distance due to added wind resistance. The value of torque resistance is to salvage poor throws that would otherwise crash and burn.

[davei]

robj, to your second questions: Yes, I believe the wobbling of the heavier mass takes more energy, therefore it either wobbles more slowly or adds to centrifugal energy. I don't really know. And, I find my experience and knowledge of disc flight and aerodynamics come together to provide my intuition/epiphanies, which I then experiment with to see if I am right. Not only have I heard that bumblebees can't fly, I have also heard that lift is generated by the curve on the top of a wing. Both probably not true.

[davei]

Nelly, I can't tell you the number. But they are relatively rare. Probably less than several boxes.

robj, to your second questions: Yes, I believe the wobbling of the heavier mass takes more energy, therefore it either wobbles more slowly or adds to centrifugal energy. I don't really know. And, I find my experience and knowledge of disc flight and aerodynamics come together to provide my intuition/epiphanies, which I then experiment with to see if I am right.

i'll bet serendipity often plays a role too. it sounds very cool. and of course your epiphanies are internationally appreciated

Not only have I heard that bumblebees can't fly, I have also heard that lift is generated by the curve on the top of a wing. Both probably not true.

[davei]

Robj, to be less obtuse, lift may be generated as much or more by reaction, than by the curved top. Balsa winged toy airplanes and paper airplane do fine without curves.

[tafe]

Lift is generated by the curve. Forcing the same amount of air over the longer curve of the top of a wing at a faster rate lowers the (pressure, downforce?) which lifts up on the wing. This is why you see leading edge slats and flaps extend on jets when they land, to generate more lift at a lower speed.
I don't know about discs, but toy planes need to fly nose-up to achieve any type of lift.
I'm sure someone else knows more about this and will expand.

[20460chase]

Hi Dave, I dont know if you have covered this.Why are most Innova discs clearer towards the beggining of the run? It seems like since the original Pro Line debuted the earlier runs were more clear,later runned more Pearly.I have especially noticed this in X-outs as well. I have some White X out Orcs that are nearly see through.{ a little distorted view, but can easily see through} I have also noticed this in Vikings, Valks, and from the old Pro, Beasts and Monsters.I have lots of Pro Beasts that vary form cloudy clear to almost opaque pearl.I have Orcs that are the same way.Sorry if this is something youve answered before.Thanks for your time.

I am a flight fanatic. In my studies I found that just recently, the bee mystery has been solved. Using a simple smokestream, It was found that insects create a swirling effect in the air molecules when they flap thier wings. Then they do a slight backstroke when they raise their wings up for the next stroke to put their wings attop the swirl. Then they "ride the swirl" created from thier previous stroke. passing faster air molecules over their wings' airfoils than what their actual effort would produce if not for the swirl produced from thier last stroke. Getting them more bang for thier buckin! Im working on a disc design that could produce this scavenging effect as the disc also flies with 2 edges. The leading edge and the trailing edge. (now, if i can just get a disc to backstroke!)

'nuff said!

The wings of insects aren't curved are they? How about raptors? Nature has spent a long time on flight engineering...
Can an eagle climb without flapping its wings?

Maple tree seeds helicopter well without any curve but i guess that isn't using lift(?)

Dave,l I loved your comment that the aerodynamic 'law' which suggests bumblebees cannot fly is *probably* not true

[sandalbagger]

DAve, have you guys ever thought about making a mid-range disc with a rim as wide as say a Beast or Orc???? I think alot of people would like this idea. I know a lot of people who dont throw rocs because the rim is not wide enough. Just thought it would be a great idea.

[ASulli]

Dave, I recently bought some X-Out discs and was curious about the specifications used to determine what discs get stamped x-out? Of the ones I recieved some have small bubbles in the plastic, some have black flecks in them, and some just seem to not have a uniform color but look to be perfect otherwise. Also, for future reference would these be legal for play or are they just for practice and casual golf?

Thanks in advance

DAve, have you guys ever thought about making a mid-range disc with a rim as wide as say a Beast or Orc???? I think alot of people would like this idea. I know a lot of people who dont throw rocs because the rim is not wide enough. Just thought it would be a great idea.

Try the Demon! I know it's not innova but it does have a super wide rim for a midrange. It takes a long time for them to break in though.

[davei]

chase, I don't think there is any pattern to it, but the pearly stuff is a little lighter mix and allows for lower weights down to the gummy stuff, which is the lightest. Some of the heaviest, are the most opaque, due to a weighting agent. The latest discs, Monsters, Beasts, and Orcs, don't need any weighting agent, they need the pearly lighter stuff.

[davei]

Aaron, the x outs are mostly cosmetic. If we think they won't fly properly, we scrap them. Usually, color is not a reason for an x out, but larger bubbles and specks or bad hotstamps are.

[20460chase]

Try the Demon! I know it's not innova but it does have a super wide rim for a midrange. It takes a long time for them to break in though.

Good thread jack and product placement dumb [*****].Why would anyone on here advise throwing a demon when Innova makes a Whippet?

[davei]

sandalbagger, mid range discs are a tough market. A mid range disc with a rim as wide as a Beast would have no weight range in candy, and a very limited range in Pro. A rim that wide would seem to make it a fairway driver like a Ram or Python. It's doable, but I am not sure how popular it might be.

Forgive me if this has been asked or if there is such a disc already, but something wide rimmed, but with the flight characteristics of a roc would be great. I love DX rocs, can't throw a round without them any more

i found this mistamp valkyrie on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...134555869&rd=1
it has a dx putt&approach aviar stamp on it. theres also one with a dx roc stamp and a dx cobra stamp as well.any idea why these mistamps are made? is it so you guys can make people think you just threw an aviar a mile?

[20460chase]

Okay thanks Dave.I think Im confused though.

[davei]

Paul, those sound like somebody from the shop putting a hotstamp on a disc when they buy one for personal use. I have done it myself a couple of times. However, it's not supposed to end up on ebay.

sounds cool. i would have to stamp most of my discs with the big bird roc stamp, and the champion discs stamp

[cbdiscpimp]

If i threw innova i would want the Little star from the Old CE stamp in the middle of all my discs and that would be it. That or the Sweet Huge Star Stamp

I have seen a CE FX with and Aviar Stamp on it.

the coolest mistamps i've seen thus far are CE firebirds with DX firebirds stamps. could we maybe see some champion discs get stamped with their dx stamps dave? i think they would sell REALLY well.

[jaymo]

hey, as for wider midranges, have youtried the Bulldog, it's a bit thicker... might be ther grip you like???

[20460chase]

I stopped bidding on that CE with the DX stamp somewhere after 70.00$....It was sick.

[gokayaksteven]

spider flys like a roc for me and has a wider, more comfey rim imho

[thetruthxl]

The spider is a fantastic disc! Every angle is accessable with it. try one for approach shots like this: standard hyzer sit downs and the magical turnover approach. on even a high, steep angle turnover at low speeds, the spider ALWAYS finishes parallel to the ground with the anchor out. once i figured that out, I franchised it in my bag! never had another disc like it...plus the extra thick rim is comfortable even for XLT players like myself...and a smaller diameter means smaller pokes!

[justingill]

if you would like a disc that you can approach with that has a wide rim like a beast or an orc i would recommend a KC Pro Banshee. It will be overstable but it is the most predictable disc ever made. Great for Hyser Bombs, Skip shots and in any wind.

[ChunkyleeChong]

Hey dave, Im not even going to ask if you,ve ever produced a Champion Monster-L as Im sure people would talk about it but I did just pick up a 175 Monster that has a really different look to the underside ,this is called the "wing" of the disc I guess.The disc is obviosly a monster looking at it from the top,it is flat with the thicker wide rim but the Wing is as straight asross as a sidewinder.Could this just be an abnormal defect or possibly from cooling?I put it next to another monster and its definatly somthing.
I cant wait to throw it,a less stable Monster, Hmmm...

[Plankeye]

Dave, Have you thought about making a disc that is more stable than the orc but a little less stable than the monster? Or is that what the Starfire is supposed to be?