Ask Dave Dunipace About Innova Discs

[okcacehole]

Dave: Can I get a little history ( or can someone who follows this thread direct me) on the Viper. I just traded for a MINT Football Stamp and have sold some 1st run star stamp Vipers in the past for a good friend.

Maybe my terminologies on disc names are off, but what is the difference on the football stamp (for Vipers and other discs such as Aviars also) and other Innova stamps? Would a football stamp or 1st run Viper be more rare? I can send you some pics if you want to see what I am referring to.

Thanks in advance!

[rhett]

Football stamp Vipers are crap, and basically worthless. But since I'm such a nice guy I'll take them all off your hands.

Football Stamps are ancient history good, and I believe they are the rarest of the good collectibles.

I love Vipers, so please give me a shot at any football or Metalhead Vipers you sell in the future.

[vwkeepontruckin]

also dave, what is this innova disc called the Thunderbird? i just saw it on the approved disc lists, its new to me.

Isn't that the old name for a TeeBird?

[flynvegas]

Ahart sold a Patent Pending Aero, Mint, last weekend for $58. That Aero is much more rare than the Viper. Football stamps are the rarest Champion stamp of them all. It would be cool to see a mini Football stamp used.

also dave, what is this innova disc called the Thunderbird? i just saw it on the approved disc lists, its new to me.

Thunderbird = Teebird

'Killed' may be a bit overboard.

Of course it's overstatement, but it there's more than just a grain of truth in it.

Horses and buggies still exist but are pretty much obselete as the best way to go from point A to point B.

Depends on where you're tying to get to. I'm guessing you'll get from first base to home with your wife a darn sight faster if you take her for an after-dinner horse and buggy ride through midtown Manhattan on Valentines Day than you will taking her for a cab ride.

141g 'World Class' lids are still PDGA-approved, but I don't think Kenny or Barry bother to carry any

That's my point. Lids may still be around and tournament approved, but they're simply not a viable option on most of today's courses. When was the last time you, or someone you know, competed in a regular tournament (not a special "old school" event), whether sanctioned or unsanctioned, using only lids? Occasionally I come across a first-time golfer playing with a lid at one of the local courses, and almost invariably, the first words out of his/her mouth are something like, "Where do you get your discs?" or "Where can I get a disc like yours?" That's true even on courses designed when lids were still a viable option, like Cornwallis Road (est. 1988, 6 holes < 181', 5 between 200' and 220', only 2 > 251') here in Durham. So apparently even rank beginners recognize that that they're playing a whole different game than everyone else.

It is also arguable that the bevel-edge disc changed the way the game is played from both a mechanical and a mental standpoint. You throw MTA, so you know how much even a slight breeze can affect a disc; you're probably also aware of how much more precise you have to be with your angles, vectors, speed, snap, etc. to get off a reasonably clean throw. Now, imagine playing disc golf with a Fastback™, a 130g Night Flyer™, or even a 175g World Class Frisbee™. Or imagine throwing a 275' hyzer down a 12-15' wide tunnel with a 20-25' ceiling, and a steep, 20' drop-off down the right hand side of the fairway (see #5 Cornwallis Road) with one of those discs. (Imagine putting in the wind with a Night Flyer!)

And when was the last time you saw someone tee off using an overhand wrist flip (aka chicken wing), which was the power technique of choice among the 20 or so of us back when I started playing (at least it was until we got our hands on Aviars and found we could throw them just as far, if not farther, with less effort and without the risk of blowing out your shoulder or wrenching your back)?

So despite the similarities—and, to an extent, the continuities—between Frisbee Golf and Disc Golf, they are, IMO, two different games. Yes, people still play Frisbee Golf, but it's primarily, if not exclusively. an informal recreational activity; contrast that with Disc Golf, a bona fide, growing, thriving, organized sport.

[williethekid]

This summer I had the pleasure of playing in the MSDGC and during the second round a man in my group, whose name i think was will kidwell used a midnight flyer for all of his approach shots, and the only bevel edged disc he used was an XL. While he didnt win the tourney he was by far one of the best "approachers" that ive ever seen.

Felix, I find it hard not to agree with almost everything you say I liked your first post a lot too I just wanted to point out that 'evolved' is also a good description because if you liken lids to reptiles and beveled-edged discs to mammals you have an example of something that didn't kill off the former but certainly supplanted it.

Could someone post a pic of a "football stamped" disc. I don't know if I've ever seen one, but I keep reading all these posts about them. Help shed some light for me please.

[atreau3]

go to www.discgolftrader.com

collections, viper... voila!

Thanks! Cool site, and I was right, never seen it before.

[davei]

Chase, they are first run as there has only been one run. It was big, mainly due to the fact that we had a boatload of X parts. We don't usually count X parts as the run. There may have been as many as 20,000 total, but the majority might have been x parts.

[davei]

paul, I don't know, but only a relatively small portion.

[davei]

17684, a football stamp is relatively rare, but a true first run Viper is much more rare. The football stamp could have been on first second or third runs. The football stamp was used for first runs and special runs.

[okcacehole]

Dave - so a Proto ( I guess they are referring to Patent Pending) football and a Proto Star Stamp would both essentially be first runs?

Made around 1992 maybe if I recall correctly?

[veganray]

Tom Miller competes in VA States (golf, MTA, & distance) yearly using only an Ultrastar. I believe Steve Dodge did the same for a couple of years.

[veganray]

Will Kidwell is one of my homies & is DEADLY accurate with a Midnight Flyer (he could float one down my chimney from my driveway without touching the sides), as well as a great Ultimate player.

[davei]

17684, the Star stamp would be, but the football stamp, unless it is on a pat pend. might or might not be.

[okcacehole]

Thanks for your help Dave!

[20460chase]

Thanks, Dave. What is the largest run youve done since CE first appeared?

[davei]

chase, that Stingray run was probably it, until now. The Sidewinder run might be it as it is still in and running. Not there yet though.

[20460chase]

Ok, thanks Dave. Is there a place where the CH Whippet run # is located? On Ebay last night I saw someone selling these under a 2500 run number. I thought it was between 4500-5000.Also, with the Whippet, were most of the X-outs due to the Stamp? I have a ICE X-out that has a flaw, but most Ive seen have no flaws other than the stamp "not taking".Of the 15 or more I have only 5 have perfect stamps.The rest are patchy.This is just curiosity.Thanks as always Sir.

[jaymo]

Yeah There's an amazing masters player up here in BC (by the name of Glen Whitlock) and he still throws some wrist flips here and there, on long holes too... it's neat to see it done well

[Cdale600]

There is a guy from La that only plays with a Zephyr. He is pretty good with that thing and has done very well in Southern National tournaments on short wooded courses.

[okcacehole]

Oklahoma City has a Pro Master that was an ultimate player first. He plays all tournies with Midnight Flyers and won the last one I saw him in.

When someone really has those discs figured out it is amazing!

[davei]

chase, i don't remember the number, but it wouldn't have been large. I would guess around 3500, but don't know. As for the rejects, I don't remember many molding rejects. As I recall, it ran fine. I don't know about the hotstamping. From what you say, it must now have gone well. Sorry I don't know any more.

[20460chase]

No worries Dave. The Whippet X-out I have looks as if someone put something very hot on it for just a sec.Like a small burn in the plastic, and the other Xs Ive seen may contain small black flecks.

Hey Dave, I just purchased an Aviar that has AX marked on the bottom and has the Innova bar stamp on top with Pro Line written in it and JK Aviar X written below it. Is this a proto JK Aviar X or a proto big bead or what? I've been told by others that it's like 3 different discs and I thought I'd go to the source to get the truth. Thanks in advance!

[Nelly]

Dave,
When a new disc is run e.q. "sidewinder", what are the percentages would you say of the weight ranges that INNOVA produces the most of... Or a website that explains a little bit about production.
example:

150-160 10%
161-165 20%
166-170 30%
170-max 40%

My question comes in knowing that it is much harder to find lower weight "gummy" plastics like 150-163..

[davei]

crdiscgolfer, it sounds like a regular JK Aviar-x. All JKs are x mold. We don't mark it anymore. If it says AX under it, it is probably from the first or second run. The stamp doesn't sound familiar to me, I think I would have to see it.