Course within a course - 27 holes at Winter Park, Kewaunee, WI

[superberry]

That is correct. The toughest course in NE WI will be getting tougher, more scenic, more worth the drive, and even more incredible! The 27 hole layout will play like a course within a course. At two intersections on the course, you will be able to follow a path one way to play a loop of holes associated with the 27, or continue on with the classic 18. Which means you'll actually be able to play 18, 22, 23, or 27 holes at your discretion.

This course within a course presents a dilemma for labeling and scorecards, signs, etc. After the original hole #8 there will be 5 holes. After the original #13 there will be 4 holes.

So, my question is this - what type of suggestions do you have for labeling these holes? I was thinking simply 'A' thru 'I' laced with the existing 18 holes. Or, should we do 8A thru 8E, and then 13A thru 13D? Or, relabel everything 1-27 (keep in mind this will require all new labels for baskets and signs on the existing holes 9-18)? We want to keep the original 18 intact becuase the terrain and challenging nature of the course will have a lot of newcomers choosing to play just 18.

How have others done this elsewhere? Does this type of layout exist elsewhere? What do you players think? What will be easiest to follow and score? There WILL be detailed instruction signs at each intersection about which route to take to play which holes as part of each layout.

A preliminary layout is done. Once the mosquitoes die down some, tee and basket locations will be finalized and flagged. Fairway clearing will begin in September, tees will be laid after that, and if we have secured enough fundraising we will purchase the baskets and thus maybe be playing 27 holes in October! At the latest, 27 holes will be complete next spring. Memorial Day weekend 2009 will be the grand opening event.

[cgkdisc]

"A thru I" would be easiest if you want to avoid renumbering all of the old holes.

[warwickdan]

i've thought of doing this on some design projects.

where i always get stuck is what do you do when those that veered off onto a 5-hole loop re-merge with those that didn't veer off onto the loop?

in other words it sounds like after hole 8 on your course one could play a 5-hole loop and then go back onto hole 9. at that point you might have players coming to hole 9 that didn't play the 5-hole loop. i always struggled with the issues of groups merging during tourney rounds.

[cgkdisc]

In tournament rounds everyone would be playing the loops or not, wouldn't they? I doubt if you'd see anyone fight about merging during rec rounds.

[mule1]

We have never had any problems at Hornet's Nest or Renaissance with the merging during recreational rounds. And as Chuck pointed out, during a tournament everyone would be playing the same layout.

[Drew32]

France Park (Logansport, Indiana)
27 holes
18 original with A-I peppered thoughout the course.
Great course. No flow issues that I noticed.

[superberry]

Just plain A-I, or would it be better tp proceed it with (in our case) 8A-8E and 13F-13I to show where in relation you are to the classic 18 course?

[cgkdisc]

That would only be needed if there's a possibility of making a wrong turn in either loop. If the next letter or hole number is obvious except at those split junctions then A-I is easier.

[Drew32]

yea what Chuck said.

Pretty much if it follows the continuity of the course then all you need is A-I but if you have to jump away from the continuity then you would proceed the letter designation of the hole with the last number of the previous hole as so your guests would know these are "bonus" holes and arn't normally played in the regular 18.

[superberry]

No way you'd make a wrong turn WITHIN the loop. After #8, A-E will flow right along, and lead you back to #9. Same goes for the loop after #13.

Drewpac, there may be some confusion though. After #8, you will be able to choose a path to the RIGHT that will play holes A-E and lead you through a 27 hole round. Or you will be able to head to the LEFT and continue on to #9 playing the classic 18 hole round.

We want the loops, and thus 27 hole round, to be an option, and not a necessity. Winter Park is already pretty challenging, and we don't want to discourage newcomers by making them suffer through another 9 monstrous wooded holes.

[spamtown discgolfer]

Todd Park in Austin, MN was originally an 18 hole course that we converted to a 27 hole course. We renumbered the holes 1-27 but the original 18 is still basically intact by skipping the 9 new holes. It's pretty obvious where the next tee is for the 27 hole course and the tee signs, for those that pay attention, have arrows that point to where the next tee is from the basket.

One thing we've realized during rec rounds is that a group of two or three that plays all 27 may have to play through another group twice if the other group is bigger and only plays 18. It's not really a problem, though; we think its worth it to have a 27 hole course.