Elections

[3902]

Vote by phone.Or by PM.
The phone call can be between a certain hour.Positions being ran for can be posted the day of.If a person is running for more than one position(In case he misses one spot, He can help in another)Then allow calls for the input.People interested can be standing by to get the info.You'll probably only have a couple people to call anyway.

[BrokenPutt]

I think G wants to keep it anonymous. I'm thinkin, but can't seem to come up with anything.

[3902]

It would work.The caller doesn't have to say who's being called.That way nobody knows who voted for what.Or Whom.

[evandmckee]

If people want their votes to be anonymous, I don't know..., electronical submissions by being anonymous on a forum could be abused, so could anonymously submitted mail, this sport does revolve around honor (i.e. the way we take scores on a card), I guess if you had more votes than members that you'd know something was up

WAFDA mailed 14 ballots to out of towners and people that couldn't be at the meeting, no one returned them (even had self adressed stamped envelopes), waste of money imo, I think in the future we'll adopt something similar to TDSA's club picnic, make the voting process something fun, we had ballots but wound up voting openly by show of hands (I believe only 11 out of 25 members voted)

personally, I don't care if people know who I vote for

[BrokenPutt]

How many outta towners do we have? I can only think of four. The mailed ballots would be less than 5 dollars in that case. If we are gonna do that we need to do it soon though.

[jeffash]

Will the 2006 year-end accounting be completed in time for all of us to see at the February meeting before the voting occurs?
I'm probably not the only one that would like to see a bank statement that shows how much $ is where.
I have a personal interest in making sure the old FDGC funds are all accounted for.
I know that there have been some expenses, and donations, but it seems that with the 2005, 2006, and 2007 dues as well as the money from the bag tag sales, and the "Invitational" proceeds, and the $900.00 I turned over, the NWADGA should be doing pretty good.
I know that the FDGC wasn't as "formal" as this club is, but we didn't ever collect dues, and at every mini you knew how much money the club had, and how much was in the Ace Pot(s).

[racerb491]

WAFDA barely had enough people willing to hold office, I've found that being active on the board of an organization takes alot of effort and time, which directly takes away from what I love the most about this game (playing disc golf). .02 cents

which is the same reason I am a board member. No one else wanted to do it. Now,it seems we have more people that would like to take part this year. This is good .

What I posted before was my own opinion and not directed to any one person(s)



I will gladly step aside if that is what the people want. It's not like I do anything anyhow

[jeffash]

I want you on the Board. You are one of my names written in stone. Don't make me get out my chisel.

I'm concerned about WAFDA members voting for NWADGA Board members.

What is the motivation of those who will ultimately vote?

I can see players from one organization joining the other's club, but why want to vote for Board members of a club different than yours- especially if you are a WAFDA board member.

Our two clubs often compete for the same resources, tournament dates, players, spomsors, etc... It's a friendly, symbiotic, relationship and I hope it stays that way.

The possibility exists that someone from WAFDA could vote for NWADGA Board members that they know will cause discord, and turmoil among our club.

I appreciate all of the interest they are showing in the upcoming elections, I guess I just wonder what the motivation is behind wanting to vote for our Board.

I realize that any club member can vote, or even be nominated for a Board position, so there's nothing to stop them from voting- except themselves.

[3902]

Discord and Turmoil?
Now why would we want that?What I want is to see a smoother working operation.Is there not Discord and Turmoil already among some in NW AR?Does that not exist pretty much in every association?
I think the WAFDA gang are "all" in favor of improving "all" areas for the benefit of "all" of us.
We are not competing.
No need to worry about WAFDA.
I think the appreciation you speak of lacks something.
You shot first.And that one was at the association.
If I am allowed to vote,I will.

[racerb491]

Thanks for the support Jeff .

I would like everyone to remember that this club is still in the beginning stages and that we started with just a couple of people that wanted to do something for our area. People can say what they will but I believe that our club has done some good things and myself can see progress from the last year. Thanks to all the people that has gotten our club to this point .

BTW- for all you Ganzel haters. He has done alot for this club and has my full support.


WE ALL NEED TO SEE THE BIG PICTURE.

[3902]

Hoorahh!Good point Mr Bailey.(Do people really hate Ganzel?)
Who's Ganzel by the way.

[evandmckee]

I HATE GANZEL

[evandmckee]

not really....couldn't help myself I love all you guys (in a brotherly non-#$*&$! way)

[evandmckee]

dang they filter #$*&$!, I meant non-ghey

[ganzel]

Will the 2006 year-end accounting be completed in time for all of us to see at the February meeting before the voting occurs?

Yes, an accounting report is presented by the treasurer at every meeting...month by month...though i can type up a yearly report i suppose. Darrell has made sure that i bring a bank statement to the meetings (accountability )


And for all you haters out there...have i really brought you harm...i have done unto you what i want others to do unto me...learn from jesus....love thy neighbor, don't covet, and don't sleep with my wife. he presented the world with a few other good ideas...you might look a brother up.

[ganzel]

And yes, i believe very strongly in the separation of church and state... the fact that the contrary exists will be the downfall of our nation.....hate me if you if will, i know the truth hurts. either way, please let your board member decisions be based on merit, and not opinion....there's a lot of work to do, and year to year we are learning from our mistakes....and correcting them....of course, starting from scratch has its' advantages too. For whatever, we have a few years before we get to the civil war stage in our development..and maybe by then we won't have a need for it...good luck.

[Furthur]

Have you given any more thought to how club members that don't live in the nwa area are going to vote? If you assume that everyone who's in this group has an internet connection, I may be able to help you.

[ganzel]

talkin' with Bob, i think it would be easy enough to have the four out of towners just call in that night to a designated recipient...somebody will call them with the ballots and the time....they call the recipient (somewhat anonymously) with their votes.....it would be about the same if we posted...but this way i can pressure them into actually voting.....not to mention a last minute political jury rigging...that's right, you may not like it, and you'll never know if they voted for you because of something i said or not ...now if we got paid for these board positions we could find some more complicated way, that was completely impartial, like sending punch tabs to florida for recounts...i think this will work just fine. I promise i'll do all of my blackmailing well before i call them to vote. Oh yeah, i might just accidentally forget to call Evan...he hates me.

[keldog]

I say we have the Disc Golfer that lives in Florida count the votes

[BrokenPutt]

Don't forget Adam in Conway. My Dad is also a club member, but probably shouldn't vote since he doesn't know anyone running. I think the board should vote on how this is done though.

[BobHarris]

Diary of a Madman.
This is the story of how things came to be in the words of the man that made it happen.



Never give up.

I have been trying to get a disc golf course in our area for over 15 years.

We just now got one.

I first played disc golf in Nashville, TN at a private course near the airport in 1980. Me and my high school buds had to pay @$5.00 just to play and we couldn’t afford the special discs behind the counter so we just threw our Whamo 165s. The black ones got lost and some of the white ones got caught up in trees. I think the three of us finished that round sharing one disc. We had a blast.

I moved to Chattanooga, TN in 1987 after college and traveling adventures, marriage and the birth of our first child- no disc golf. I thought it had gone away. Ultimate was alive and well in my heart and soul. I found an Ultimate team in Nooga right away.

My wife is from Huntsville, AL. We visited her parents on the holidays. Some how I found a disc golf course near their house- Brahan Springs. It was me and my dog’s getaway from the in laws. It was 5 minutes from their house. It was great. I got the fever.

I came back to Chattanooga looking for a course. There was none. I discovered that Huntsville had 2 more courses and we started visiting the in laws more often. I discovered disc golf in Atlanta visiting more relatives. Back in Chattanooga- no disc golf.

Around 1989- 1990, I mustered the gumption to approach the city with the idea of a disc golf course. The Director of Parks and Recreation at the time was an old codger named Durl Jordon. He was at the end of his leg as Director and did not want to expend his retirement energy on a new-fangled project that he did not understand plus they were out of money building tennis courts nobody played on.

Later I visited the County Parks Director and they were out of money building park benches nobody used. The state parks were out of money. Oh well, I gave it a shot.

In 1994 my best friend was killed by a lightning bolt playing a game of Ultimate in Nashville. We used to talk about disc golf in Chattanooga. I revisited all my contacts with a memorial course in mind. Nothing happened.

My job changed to a regional sales representative for a national printing company. My territory took me to some of the best disc golf in the Southeast. I got a disc golf directory and I had little boxes by each course in my territory. Each course I played I would check the box. If they were really good I put a star by them.


I got to play disc golf in Little Rock, Memphis, Nashville, Jackson, Baton Rouge, Mobile, Birmingham, Huntsville, Charlotte, Knoxville, Atlanta, Hogansville, Lebanon, Muscle Shoals, Hattiesburg, Johnson City, Tishamingo, Fort Smith, Bowling Green, Louisville, Shreveport, Waveland, Gautier, Tupelo, Asheville, Raleigh, Winston-Salem, Hickory, Salisbury, Toccoa, Rock Hill, and others.

Back in Chattanooga- no disc golf.

I read in the paper that the City was going to renew a local park that was falling to crime and under use and other vices. I attended their organizational meetings and presented disc golf to the bewildered group. Disc golf did not make the plan.

But hey that’s ok. I could still play on my business trips. But people would ask me where I was from and how the disc golf was there. I had to say Chattanooga and we have no course. They would say, “What? That’s a bummer man . You oughta put one in.”

A new City Parks and Recreation man is hired. He knows about disc golf. He has even played disc golf. This is it. We are finally getting a course.

“We like your idea, but we just don’t have it in our budget.”

I heard that for the next several years at TVA meetings, at County Parks meetings, at private campgrounds and state park planners. This was almost always the answer.

It’s not like we were asking for everything. Our presentation was just baskets- @$ 5,000. and the space to put them in. Still there was no money but more than that there was no recognition of the quality of the sport at higher decision making levels.

We played video tapes. We presented letters of successes at other parks. We drew up plans of the course lay out and design. We demonstrated throws. We showed them discs and baskets. Still nothing stuck.

In the spring of 2002 I heard that a course was going in at a nearby Georgia State Park. One of my partners, an Ultimate player named Bo Chamberlain successfully landed a disc golf course in the budget of Cloudland Canyon State Park. The course was about 30 miles away from Chattanooga up on the Cumberland Plateau, but hey it was closer than Huntsville or Knoxville or Nashville or Atlanta.

At this course I discovered other disc golfers. I was not the only one suffering. Others had endured the pain of no disc golf in our area. They came out of the woodwork, more and more each week. Soon we had about 30 regular players. We had Sunday doubles. We established a tag system. We even had a few tournaments. It was good, but people got tired of the drive and we had to pay to park and pay to play. The rangers started profiling us and things were not so good. We had no choice though. Where else were we going to play?

We had to do something. My good friend Steve Cobble had been instrumental in growing Ultimate in our area for the past 10 years. He approached me with the idea of helping our Ultimate club becoming a tax-exempt non-profit organization. They had collected some moneys over many years of recreational league. We could combine Ultimate and Disc Golf into one entity. It was a great idea. Sure I said, no problem- understatement.

So we met and selected a Board of Directors and a name for our new club, the Chattanooga Flying disc Club, Inc. Wow, a bunch of old hippies and freaks on a board. Not a diving board and not being hit by a board or hammering a board. We were on a Board of Directors for our Disc Club. We worked for about a year meeting with lawyers, accountants and IRS people having meetings every month or so. We used Atlanta’s club structure to help us put our paperwork together. Thanks Atlanta.

We finally got word that we were accepted as a 501-c-3 tax-exempt organization recognized by the state and nation. One of our friends had some rich friends and we tapped into some of their foundation money.

I had met with City Parks and Recreation about 5 years ago and even walked a site with their City planner at a central location in Chattanooga near the DuPont Factory. There was some land that DuPont donated to the City for recreational use. There were plans to build a soccer complex and the city was open to discuss disc golf there too. The plan got put on the back burner…money again.

About a year ago, I was playing a course in Knoxville. Someone asked me again why Chattanooga did not have a course. It was about the hundredth time I had heard this.

I returned to Chattanooga with another renewal of pursual and I approached the city again. We had more legitimacy. We were on the cusp of becoming a tax-exempt organization at this time. The City Parks and Rec. people said that DuPont was on the front burner now and that we may have an opportunity. The soccer fields were under construction and there was a tract that was so wooded and dense and full of sinkholes and dead pines that they were not sure if anything could be done with it. They had no money left to help us. I told them it was perfect and that we just needed the land. We would do all the work and raise money for the baskets.

They drew up a lease that our lawyer adjusted for us and we began to layout a course and define our boundaries. The land was a jungle. We should have watched the making of the Panama Canal before we tackled this project. We could not use a dozer because of the delicacy of the sinkholes so we had to clear all 16 acres by hand- chainsaws and bladed weedeaters mostly. We had volunteer work weekends where we rented a chipper and pulled it through with an ATV. We had sold nine sponsorships to pay for the baskets and in about three months we had our front nine in… the last weekend of 2004.

The back nine went in a little easier. We could play and work and more people were coming out. Everything was coming together. There were 10- 15 cars almost every day. The soccer Moms were puzzled. Our web site kept things going smoothly and people were stepping up to help with tee signs and posts, sponsorships, equipment rental, and the very much needed physical labor.

It’s mid February of 2005 and we have 18 baskets in the ground. There are a few fairways that need some work. We need to spread more wood chips for our tee pads and get all the tee signs in, but we are close to being finished. The Mayor is coming out and we are dispersing our press releases in March for our Grand Opening. The City is going to complete a driveway and parking area for us and put “Disc Golf Course” on the sign out front.

The City of Chattanooga is about to be introduced to the great sport of Disc Golf. Our Club is planning clinics to help get people started in the sport. We have our first tournament planned for April. We have a sign up sheet on our message board for “Adopt-a-Hole”- a way that people who want to help can adopt a hole to take care of and help us finish out. We are looking for another site so when the DuPont course gets too crowded we will have another place nearby to go.

This is how we did it. I know there may be easier ways to get a course but for our circumstances it took all this to get it started. I am certain that our course will be a success and we will finish it out with concrete pads. Hopefully we can build a couple more with the help of the city or county. Contact us on our website if you have any questions or comments. We would like to help others just like others helped us. More disc golf is good.

Never give up.

[BobHarris]

If you found that interesting, you may want to check this out web page

and this
web page

[BrokenPutt]

I have been doing a little research this morning about becoming a non-profit. It is definitely doable, but it is expensive. The post above is interesting because they have a lawyer. We can get a lawyer to prepare all of the paperwork for incorporation and to file our 501c3, again this is expensive. We also need to update our accounting processes if we are going to do this. Tax documents have to be filed with the state and the IRS every year. An accountant would be very helpful in the managing of the books, again more money. We need to discuss what is most important, and decide where to put our money. My opinion would be to spend the money we have to become a non-profit and begin operating as a legitimate business. Put new courses and such on hold, as completing this process will help in future endeavors. It can be done fairly quickly (not years as I have heard). I will try to get a copy of the incorporation documents and the 501c3 application for the next meeting for everyone to look at. Again having a lawyer prepare the documents protects the club and its members from errors and dramatically decreases the time and effort required. In my opinion it is worth the money. If anyone knows a tax lawyer or an account try to get them hooked on disc golf ASAP. We could use their help.

[3902]

Lotsa work.You also have to fall under certain guidelines.Educational or Charity.We found this to be too much to bite off for our purposes.It's just as easy to go Not For Profit and have sponsors write it off as advertising.(Much easier)
What is it you want to accomplish as Non Profit?
We had our treasurer working on this for quite some time.Joey is a very successful buisnessman.He looked at every angle and we trusted his opinion.It just didn't seem to be worth it.
We decided that there were other things we'd rather spend our time focusing on.Being Non Profit also (like you stated) takes alot of year after year IRS mumbo jumbo.Who has the time or money.
You guys do what you like,I'm just saying that we looked at it .And it wasn't for us.We weren't gaining anything.
It's tough enough just getting an association going and on the same page.Adding this to the pile carries an even heavier load.
My .02 cents.

[BrokenPutt]

There is no legal distinction between not-for-profit and non-profit. These 2 terms are used interchangeably. Were there any IRS or government forms associated with becoming not-for-profit? If so where could I find info on these documents. The Secretary of State doesn't have anything I could find, neither does the IRS. I'm interested to know exactly how WAFDA is setup. Are you incorporated? Not being incorporated leaves the person whose name is on the bank accounts responsible personally if there ever is an audit or any government action. Non-profit status is not just for educational or charitable purposes. The 501 c 7 is for private clubs (this doesn't apply to a disc golf club because our facilities are public), and there are a ton of different examples. I have been researching and talking to people who have a lot of experience starting non-profits. It isn't as hard as it is made out to be. I am not saying it is easy by any means, and it is expensive, but to protect the club and its members in the future I think it is necessary. Right now we don't deal with enough money for it to really make a difference, but in the future if we grow like we all hope it will be necessary. A lawyer is not necessary, but from what I have seen does make the process go more quickly and a lot smoother. Not to mention that they would have the answers to all the questions that it would take someone like me a day to answer. I would really like to know how some of the larger disc golf clubs are setup (those dealing with large amounts of money not necessarily a large membership base). I would bet that a lot of them have some sort of professional accounting. I think that if we expect other businesses to take our clubs seriously, it is time we organized. I have been looking at all of this for a while, but the story Bob posted confirmed what I had already thought. I am by no means an expert, and any info is greatly appreciated.

[3902]

Contact TDSA.Or ask someone like Wise or Forest.I'm sure Dave will see this post tomorrow and reply.You can at any time look over our work in this area.Let me know ahead of time and i'll get a copy of what we go by for you.I don't think TDSA is Non Profit.
We actually borrowed alot of what we're doing from the good neighbors of OK.
What your doing is on the right track.It's good to see you getting so involved Mayo.Keep it up.

[twoputtok]

Tom is right. The costs of not-for-profit vs. non-profit will make the decision much easier for you. A true Non-profit 501-c3 will require around $2,500 in filings and attorney's costs. That is just what it takes to set it up and that price doesn't include the accounting and reports of all donators that must be submitted each year and all of this information must be made available to the public, in a published form.

Not-for-profit will give you everything you need at virtually no costs. When soliciting donations, it is much easier to get monies from advertising budgets than it is from donations to a non-profit. Most companies that you will be dealing with are not even the size to have a fund set up for non-profits but even the mom & pop operations have money for advertising. When done this way, you don't have to report the individual donator either, leaving you much less work.

I had meetings with a group of non-profit/charitable attorneys. Their advice was that if you are not running more than $5K per year through the account, don't waste your time.

While your intentions of protecting the club and the members and obtaining non profit status are good intentions and worth exploring. I think you will find that simply filing with the Secretary of State for a Not-for-profit status and getting your FIN (Tax ID) will be the most ecomomical decision for the club as a whole.

[BrokenPutt]

Tom is right. The costs of not-for-profit vs. non-profit will make the decision much easier for you. A true Non-profit 501-c3 will require around $2,500 in filings and attorney's costs. That is just what it takes to set it up and that price doesn't include the accounting and reports of all donators that must be submitted each year and all of this information must be made available to the public, in a published form.

Not-for-profit will give you everything you need at virtually no costs. When soliciting donations, it is much easier to get monies from advertising budgets than it is from donations to a non-profit. Most companies that you will be dealing with are not even the size to have a fund set up for non-profits but even the mom & pop operations have money for advertising. When done this way, you don't have to report the individual donator either, leaving you much less work.

I had meetings with a group of non-profit/charitable attorneys. Their advice was that if you are not running more than $5K per year through the account, don't waste your time.

While your intentions of protecting the club and the members and obtaining non profit status are good intentions and worth exploring. I think you will find that simply filing with the Secretary of State for a Not-for-profit status and getting your FIN (Tax ID) will be the most ecomomical decision for the club as a whole.

I really appreciate the info! As a not-for-profit, do you still not have to file taxes every year on the income you do produce? It seems as though you would be running as a low income advertising agency. Are the taxes not required because income is so low (just like low income families)? Is the TDSA incorporated? Is not-for-profit recognized by the government or are you operating as a business with no profit? I cannot find anything within our state or the IRS that recognizes not-for-profit. It seems as though the book keeping would be necessary, no matter what, unless there is a level of income that is tax exempt.

[twoputtok]

Try this link
http://www.uacted.uark.edu/legalesource/index.html

As it states, you can file as a non-profit corp, but to have tax expemt status you must have that determination made by the IRS. This is pretty much what we have done. We are a not-for-profit Oklahoma Corp, with out tax exempt status.
The tax exempt status is what will require large amounts of annual paperwork.

[BrokenPutt]

talkin' with Bob, i think it would be easy enough to have the four out of towners just call in that night to a designated recipient...somebody will call them with the ballots and the time....they call the recipient (somewhat anonymously) with their votes.....it would be about the same if we posted...but this way i can pressure them into actually voting.....not to mention a last minute political jury rigging...that's right, you may not like it, and you'll never know if they voted for you because of something i said or not ...now if we got paid for these board positions we could find some more complicated way, that was completely impartial, like sending punch tabs to florida for recounts...i think this will work just fine. I promise i'll do all of my blackmailing well before i call them to vote. Oh yeah, i might just accidentally forget to call Evan...he hates me.

Is this how this is gonna be done?