Brown Deer Wintertime Open thread

[Moderator005]

By user request, the Brown Deer Wintertime Open thread was moved to the Deleted Posts area. Way too many personal attacks contained within.

For the record, I have found that contacting a tournament director through private e-mail, phone conversation, or face-to-face discussion is the best way to resolve issues after a tournament. Coming back and chastising the TD after the fact on the message board is the absolute WORST way to handle such and usually leads to flaming, personal attacks, & offensive content.

[Karma Police]

[sleepy]

Well I guess you did not read the attacks the TD made on me.

[Karma Police]

[sleepy]

I am not attacking anyone. The rules stated before were bent. I was upset with the fact then attacked by the TD verbally. And was threatened to stay off the courses and such. So I end it here I was upset with the outcome of the tournament and it should have been handled differently.

[20165]

Unfortunately Terry doesn't take us (a certin group of friends) seriously. When we try to talk to him he acts as if he's KING *****, and we're nothing unless we are part of his group of friends. Yeah, pretty pathitec uh.......... So the only option here in Wisconsin is either brown nose T-Dogg untill he likes you, play HIS way and SHUT UP, or don't support his Career, which is trying to make as much money as possiable through Wisconsin Disc Golf. Just my 2 cents.

*Waiting for backlash!

[Karma Police]

[Karma Police]

Ok.. delete this post too. MOVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DeafDGolfer]

Ok.. delete this post too. MOVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(sighs) yeah its definely time to MOVE ON! Tdogg had already admitted his mistake, Hes the man! everybody makes mistakes and everybody should forgive each other regardless of the outcome. enough said!

Did anybody see the deers around the park! I litterally almost hit the deer right on the Good Hope Rd during the lunch break. Gladly Bambi is doing okay! Now I do know why the Park is called Brown Deer Park!!

[serg]

I understand this tournament was held as a sanctioned event to try and get a course rating. Does the weather/course condition factor into the rating at all? Personally, I feel I could have done a little better if I wasn't calf high in snow at times, had better footing on holes 14 and 16 and wasn't wearing my momma's combat boots. I'm sure the Pro players would have thrown much better.

Just wondering if it seems that the course rating would be skewed at all because of the conditions.

[ck34]

No leaves can make it easier. Hole length is such a dominant factor in scoring that seasonal variance is less than the variance between 0 and 25mph winds in the same season. Getting scoring spreads on individual holes is more important than overall course rating to determine which pins might be best on each hole. This data is just a start since all pin placements haven't been tested yet.

[sleepy]

So if the ratings are accurate. If a amatuer shoots a par his round will be around a 1050. With the snow -2 was the best in doubles. Today a -7 was shot without the snow. And -9 is the best doubles score yet when it was first put in. I can say I have only played 2 single rounds out there My first without the snow I shot a par. With the snow I shot a +6 three days before the tourney.

[discglfr]

To Shane Rose (Sleepy):

I am publicly apologizing for the error I made this past weekend as a TD. I am also prepared to adhere to any PDGA repercussions which ensue as a result of that error.

In the past 10 years of running PDGA events I have never done what I'm about to do. As a token of appreciation and good will I am offering you a 'rebate' for the event you just played in. Since it is not common practice for myself or the PDGA to offer rebates (or refunds) for unsatisfied customers I'm willing to make an exception in this very special case. This was not suggested or enforced by the PDGA or any other party. This is no one else's decision but my own.

You now have a $27.50 credit (half of your entry fee) towards your next Lifetime Disc Sports event. This is valid only when I'm the TD and it is only offered to you and no one else. I hope you take advantage of this offer. This offer is good for one year starting today.

Sincerely,

Terry Miller

[sleepy]

Thanks for the apology. But like I said before I am done with tournaments ran by you for at least a year in not forever. Thank you for standing up and taking care of the responsibly, but the only thing I have to say against that is you had since last Saturday to take care of this before this was blown out of the water.

[discette]

It is obvious who is the true sportsman. Nothing like admitting your wrong, trying to make it right and still getting the big FU. Just because it takes a few days for a real man to come to reason doesn't lessen the apology. A gracious acceptance of an apology would never include the word "but", especially twice.


I think someone may have over-reacted about the importance of their performance at this event!! Sound the alarms, a TD made a mistake!!! Let's put this in perspective, it was a D-tier event on a brand new course with only 38 players on a course knee-deep in snow!!! Players had the opportunity to be there as an ambassadors to the sport, to show this community what disc golf is all about. It should have been fun having the chance to set course records, help provide scoring information for a 2007 Am World's course, etc.

As a TD I have had to mix juniors and women with other players. (I realize this event incorrectly mixed everyone for the first round.) If a player approaches me before the round complaining that they have to play with the woman or junior, I do my best to move them off the card. It isn't to appease the player, but to rescue the woman or junior from having to play with some self important pr*%^$k.

The grief caused by one of 38 (or 138) players is one reason why TDs call it quits. It is even worse when they complain on the message board instead of handling it privately. You can only take the abuse of a few ungrateful players for so long before you come to realize it might not be worth it.

Many thanks to Terry for stepping up to run 07 Am Worlds and all the events leading up to it.

[sleepy]

I am done responding to messages like this. Because I have had personal messages from many tournament directors who have been involved with him and have had my back in my decision to boycott what he does. So I am done with this topic and letting the PDGA handle it. Oh yea if this was a first time for doing something idiotic by him I would let it pass, but I bit my tongue for to many years. Also were is my plaque for winning Mukwongo leagues 3 months ago?

[tkieffer]

Too bad, as we could use your help in pulling off the Am Worlds.

Drop the hate and be a part. We can use the help and expertise of all the Milwaukee area DG community!

[20165]

Sounds like you've never been to a Terry Miller Tournament. In my OPINION, he' not sorry, otherwise he would've apologized to EVERYONE he $crewed with the pairings. Unfortunately this isn't the only time this has happened at a lifetime disc sports Tournament.
Usually, if your a friend of Miller, and playing in his Tournament, you'll have some influence as to where and who your playing with. Which is WRONG, there shouldn't be any favortisim. And if Terry thought mixed Divisons we're so important, then why wasn't he playing with some first time players?? Whatever, he runs his Tournaments how he wants, so theres nothing I can do expect voice my, and others, OPINION!!!

[DeafDGolfer]

Sounds like you've never been to a Terry Miller Tournament. In my OPINION, he' not sorry, otherwise he would've apologized to EVERYONE he $crewed with the pairings. Unfortunately this isn't the only time this has happened at a lifetime disc sports Tournament.
Usually, if your a friend of Miller, and playing in his Tournament, you'll have some influence as to where and who your playing with. Which is WRONG, there shouldn't be any favortisim. And if Terry thought mixed Divisons we're so important, then why wasn't he playing with some first time players?? Whatever, he runs his Tournaments how he wants, so theres nothing I can do expect voice my, and others, OPINION!!!

I understand your anger but favoritism?? I do not see any favoritism from Terry. I m good friend of him and I always go to his tournaments and He would never put my other deaf disc golfer friends (Mike Maffucci, John Fletcher and Mark Wanninger) and myself in same card in first round. It is frustrating for me to not have any form of communication during rounds without other deaf disc golfers. However I do understand your point of mixed division in first round. but Favoritism, Im tad puzzled.

Space Cadet

[uwmdiscgolfer]

Well said Zac, everyone has the right to voice their opinion. I shall now voice mine…..
It is unfortunate that many of you feel this way about any Lifetime events that are run. I help at many of his events, and I often help put the cards on the score ports in the morning/night before, whatever it may be. I, along with many other people, help Terry run his events. This past event I was not there, so can not vouch for anything that Terry, or any of the staff did on that day.
I can tell you that on mornings and nights before other events, there is so much going on that we do not have time to “pick our groups” We just throw everyone on the score port and move on. Often, there are people calling Terry asking to get in the event, when they had weeks, or sometimes months to get into the event. There are payouts to handle, PDGA reports, CTP’s, scorecards, score-port cards, and a million other little things that need to be handled in order to run an event.

Now do I agree with everything that Terry does in his career as a Disc Golf promoter, no, I do not. I am an individual with my own opinions on how things should and should not be done. However, I do like the way Disc Golf has gone since he started his business. There are more courses then ever, more leagues, more events, and more opportunity for disc golf to become a huge sport in Wisconsin.
There is not a single person in this state with more drive and determination then Terry to help promote the game. Everyone has great ideas, but not everyone runs with them, as Terry does.

So, with that, I know how this post is going, so I would appreciate no personal bashing to myself, as I am just voicing my opinion.

Your Friend-

Matt

[uwmdiscgolfer]

Congratulations to Jason Stamm for winning the first event at Brown deer!

[widiscgolf]

I think it's great that we're getting all these great new courses. I'm glad that I have contributed my memberships along with fundraisers where I donated to help get those courses get installed.

Yes Terry was a part of getting them installed; along with the Wisconsin Disc Golfers/Clubs and PDGA which are the main supporters.

There is not a single person in this state with more drive and determination then Terry to help promote the game.

Ever heard of Uncle Joe? Mark Peterson? Randy Schukar? Steve Kinde? Don Ticknor? Ken Kreie? Duster Don? Barry Schultz? Mike Batka? Ryan Hornickel? Larry Ast? Jeff Mitchell? Jim Van Lanen? Tom Jenkins? Tim Kieffer? Eric Paulson? DiscBerry? Cobus Family? All of which I know you and/or we heard of before.

I know I’m missing a ton of people but I can say all them are the great ambassadors of Wisconsin Disc Golf community. Many of which have large foot notes in our disc golf community long before.

I’m not taking anything away from Terry’s efforts at all. Terry wouldn't be where he is right now if not for half of those people listed above. This is a community, a group in which all have pulled together to have the courses we have now today and in the future.

All of which is true so hopefully nobody will argue about the truth.

Josh

[20165]

Couldn't have said it better myself, ALOT of people have influence in Wisconsin disc golf, including Terry Miller. Just trying to say that he should work on his PEOPLE skills.

P.S. Don't forget K. Raff !!!!!!!!

[dloper777]

”Errors, mistakes, and humiliations are all necessary steps in the Learning Process .

Once they have served their purpose, they should be forgotten

If we constantly dwell upon the errors, then the error of failure becomes the goal .”


- Vince Lombardi




"It is not our circumstances that dictate our actions,
it is how we respond to those circumstances which determines our actions."

'The World in My Mirror', by Margaret Jean Jones .
(Margaret J. Jones, at the age of 14 was stricken with a disease that fused all her bones in her body together. She could only lay in bed, and her parents built and attached a mirror on her bed in such a way, that she could look through it into the room. She was "bitter" over this disease and after a few years had gotten to a place of praising God for her affliction. She realized the service of her parents who cared for her was a blessing beyond the physical world of love, and she determined to write this book about her new found peace, and life. This was just one of many wonderful insightful messages of wisdom she imparted. Her fingers were broken and bent to facilitate her being able to write on paper, later
to be typed by other's.)




“ All virtue is summed up in dealing justly ”
- Aristotle




“ “Nothing sets a person so much out of the devils reach as Humility” ”
– Jonathan Edwards




“ “The noblest service comes from nameless hands. And the best servant does his work unseen.” .”

- Oliver Wendell Holmes


I hope one can draw much knowledge and wisdom from such people above quoted.

Which quote do you like the most above?


Dlo

[DeafDGolfer]

definely Vince Lombardi

Space Cadet

[DeafDGolfer]

How do you determine who got "screwed"? The advanced guy in Sleepy's group still shot a pro score (61). Did he get "screwed" too? Terry shot with an advanced guy that has never seen the course and an Am II player. Also, others shot in the mixed divisions and they aren't complaining. Didn't your friend Paul shoot with a guy that shot 107 but he's not complaining? Silly how you think some got "screwed" but that seems to be pretty subjective.

Space Cadet

[sleepy]

Well maybe you haven't seen Paul since the tourney. He is very upset with the pairings too. He just wouldn't be as nice as I was when voicing his opinion that is why he hasn't

[uwmdiscgolfer]

I think what I was trying to say got lost a little bit. All of those people you mentioned are great ambassadors for the sport and do a lot for it. Some are great on the course, some run great events, etc.
You are also correct in the fact that they paved the way for what someone like Terry.

Its hard for me to explain all the things that terry brings to the plate that are so positive. There are so many things that he does that no one sees, like teaching classes through recreation departments, running demos for schools, installing courses all throughout the state, volunteering for the Germantown school district, running AM Worlds, etc.
I think that it is wrong to bash someone so much, for something like this.
I cannot pick another person in the state that does all of this for the sport.

Your Friend-

Matt

[dloper777]

”Errors, mistakes, and humiliations are all necessary steps in the Learning Process .

Once they have served their purpose, they should be forgotten

If we constantly dwell upon the errors, then the error of failure becomes the goal .”


- Vince Lombardi



I like this one very much, as Vince held everyone accountable from the coaching staff who called the play, the player who botched the play and everyone who was involved, to thier part of the learning process.

Vince held everyone responsible for NOT the mistake, but that ALL involved were held responsible to the "LEARNING" process. This was a superior means in which one's character could stay in tack, but the behavior could be corrected, therefore everyone's integrity would remain in place.

Once everyone accepted "thier" part in the learning process, the error no longer could be focused upon, the lesson once learned no longer could be referred to in a negative, in which as Vince said, the negative or failure would therefore be the goal, which does not bring about an individual solution, and broader social or team cohesion.

Sadly, if everyone up and down the line doesn't get or take responsability for their role in the learning process, it only becomes personal. For this, there is no help, or hope, to such "self" inflicted pain. It simply becomes a "blame" game, and if you have seen any professional team, that's the first person they rid themselves of.

I enjoy many of Vince Lombardi's quotes, and there are many inspirational ones used by business's across this fine country. If you have one, send it to me!

Dlo

[tkieffer]

Hey Mr. Loper!

My first boss out of college was a huge Lombardi fan. On the wall above his desk was the Lombardi quote, "Tough times don't last, tough people do." I've always liked that quote and have it above my office area at home. During trying times, it's always helped.

Hope to see you soon!