Ask Chuck Kennedy

[cgkdisc]

Yes. The correction will be done sometime this month to finalize 2010 data.

[dionarlyn]

Hey Chuck -

Not sure if you noticed, but late last year (actually, the last day of the year) I ran a SuperClass tournament. Nate and I shredded by our standards and averaged 1022 for the event. There were a group of folks down from Seattle with SC ratings of their own in the field as well. It was Nate and I's first SC event...here is what I am wondering: When do the SC Ratings get published, and to your knowledge, are we the top rated SC players in the world now? Oh, Nate beat me in a playoff...and on my birthday!

Also, we personally felt that we should have gotten higher ratings for the event (based on our knowledge of the course, and what we shoot with our regular equipment), but we aren't complaining, we're just happy we played well.

D

[cgkdisc]

October was the last Super Class update. I'll check with Gentry so we can complete 2010 SC ratings. Your unofficial ratings were based on players' regular PDGA ratings. When they are done officially, the SC ratings of players who have enough SC ratings to be propagators will be used which may change the result. SC ratings in general are more compressed than regular PDGA ratings because the Super Class SSA will always be higher on any course than the regular SSA.

[the_kid]

Any plans to fix the "player stats" page? The tournaments aren't listed in order by date and it is really confusing.

Also are results from pre-2003 now lost forever?

Thanks

[cgkdisc]

It's probably just something with the database functions that have to be activated again since they did the server upgrade yesterday. They are continuing to add more older events online so the pre-2003 items that are missing should reappear.

[26226]

Hi Chuck,

My questions are in regards to membership renewals and packages for 2011.

When are the renewal membership packs usually delivered? If my membership pack fails to arrive, who should be notified? Do they get sent via the USMail, FedEx, UPS, or some other courier?

I did renew well before the end of the year, my magazine still makes it out here, I'd mostly like to see the 2011 card and whatever else might be included.. thank you,

Bowler
26226

[cgkdisc]

You should have gotten your packet within 10-12 days max. I got mine, I think US Mail, in maybe 5 days and it was among a club affiliate multiple set of renewals done online. If you didn't do it online and mailed it in, contact PDGA office. If you did it online, then call: 1-888-840-7342 to find out what happened to delay your pack.

[26226]

within 10-12 days of what? Jan 1.? 3rd year in a row that it has been 6+ weeks for me if Jan 1. is the key. If people actually got their packs before 2010 was out, that really makes me wonder what the problem is. thanks again.

[cgkdisc]

10-12 days after when you renewed. Not sure what might have caused your delay. I've seen few posts from members about delays receiving renewal packs compared with some past years. Good luck getting it resolved.

[26226]

Talked with Kieth, he seems to be on top of the situation. Thanks for the contact info.
Mutli-year renewals take a little longer.......

[the_kid]

Originally Posted by cgkdisc

It's probably just something with the database functions that have to be activated again since they did the server upgrade yesterday. They are continuing to add more older events online so the pre-2003 items that are missing should reappear.

What about placing events back in chronological order?

[cgkdisc]

You should be able to sort by date but it looks like that function hasn't been reactivated yet since they switched servers.

[rhett]

All I want for my birthday is a 950 or greater rating...

[lvdgc]

Chuck...can someone please call me at (702) 249-0387. The tee-times will not post for the Gentlemen's Club Challenge Am weekend. When I load everything, it say OK, but the times will not display. HELP!!! I have 100 ams looks for the tee times now!!!

Jeff Jacquart

[TobbeF]

Hi,
I have tried searching this forum for an answer to this but havnt been able to find it so my apologies if this is a reoccuring question but:

We are arranging an annual series of off season (cold winter around here) tournaments which we are getting PDGA rated for the first time. Some of the players do not feel they perform well in the winter conditions and might be afraid it will hurt their rating. Furthermore, having a decent rating could be important in order to be allowed to play at a lot of the major events later this year. Do players who feel this way have an option to play non-rated by "forgetting" to supply their pdga number or do they have to risk their rating or refrain from playing at all?

I.e what happens if a player who is a pdga member (current or not current) omits supplying his/her pdga number when signing up for one of these tournaments (pdga membership not mandatory). Would it be the TD:s responsibility to find the pdga number anyway? Does the round update his/her rating?

Best regards
/Tobbe

[cgkdisc]

I realize some people will consider going beyond actually playing better to maintain a higher rating. But there are only a few people where it really matters from a practical standpoint because they need to maintain a 4-digit rating to retain sponsorship. Otherwise, no other PDGA events (except Am Nationals if you haven't qualified) have a minimum rating to enter the event. If anything, players might want a lower rating so they qualify to enter a lower division in these bigger events, and you always have the option to play up.

Other than these few sponsored players around 1000 rating, it usually doesn't matter if members do things they think will retain a higher rating like tanking rounds so they don't get included in their rating or not reporting their membership number so they don't get ratings (which of course will cost them the extra $10 non-member fee). Is the chance to maybe keep a higher rating really worth that extra $10?

These stunts that keep a player's rating propped up at a level higher than their current skill level mostly helps other players. The only way a few other players might be impacted negatively by a player tanking or not completing a round is if their behavior during that round is poor or they drop from a 3-some in the middle of a round so there are only 2 left in the group.

Something to consider is that most players do not shoot lower ratings in the winter even if their scores are higher because the ratings are based on how well everyone plays. When everyone's scores are higher on average, it means the course is playing tougher. A 50-60 degree drop in temperature can reduce everyone's max distance around 30-50 feet due to higher air density (plus more restrictive clothes). It's likely if a 55 rates 950 in the summer, a 60 might also rate 950 in windy, wintry weather on that course. Many players can actually shoot better rated rounds in winter even if their scores are the same or higher than summer on the same course.

[bruce_brakel]

Arguably, signing up without providing your current PDGA number would violate the Competition Manual 2.1(D): "A player must properly identify themselves when competing in a PDGA sanctioned event."

The TD would probably be violating the sanctioning agreement if he were to knowingly permit this. The sanctioning agreement used to require the TD to collect the non-member fee from non-members and get the PDGA number from members.

You ought to tell those guys, "Look, were all Swedes here, except the occasional Norg or Finn or Lapp who makes the drive. We all know how to put on and take off mittens. The cold affects us all the same, so it won't affect ratings at all."

[Karl]

Chuck,

If one where to click on the "PDGA Tour / Statistics" and select say "Am Master", some of the players listed within are Pros (as they have accepted cashed - and it's even listed that way in their bio's).
Apparently, those Pros that have (at least once) played in an Am section that year (which of course they're allowed to do) are also pooled into the Ams.

Any thoughts about how these Pro (that have played Am) can be just listed in the Pro pool?

Karl

[cgkdisc]

It looks like there are still other issues to be resolved with the stats listing since the label on top of an amateur selection like Am Master says they are Pro Masters and the column sorting doesn't work in IE although it does work in Chrome, at least for the page of players you are looking at.

Karl, regarding separating or eliminating the Pros from Ams within a listing, I can see how that might be helpful for final point standings since the pro members can't get invites to Am Worlds even if they have enough am points that year. I'll check with Gentry and see if that's possible as they re-establish the proper reporting and sorting issues mentioned above.

[askmifo]

First, just to clarify why it is an issue to not drop your ratings in Sweden this year... We have now begun to use a three-stage registration process for the national events. You have to be 975+ MPO to be able to sign up at stage one, a week later registration opens for 950+ MPO etc. There is a risk that the 90-player field is filled after stage 1 or 2, hence the fear for having your rating to drop below the stage limits.

However, I fully agree that rounds can be equally or better rated in winter depending on how the rest of the field plays.

I have two questions though, will ratings be the same even if the field contains some non-PDGA members? i.e. does non-PDGA members rounds contribute to SSA calculations etc?
The other question is, since I have suffered from a "frozen shoulder" for two years, there is no way to freeze your rating due to "sick leave"? I have still played in PDGA competitions, knowing that I will get a lower rating due to my injury.

[cgkdisc]

Ratings are calculated only from scores of PDGA members who have established ratings based on at least 8 rounds. This does include PDGA members who may not be current at the time of the event. Non-members who play will not change the ratings.

No way to freeze your rating other than not playing sanctioned events. Ratings track your historical performance. If you do not play as well while impaired, your scores and resulting ratings are still historical reflections of those performances, even if your rating doesn't indicate your potential scores once your frozen shoulder goes away. It might not help you get into a national event this year, but the good news is that your rating is only based on rounds 12 months prior to your most recent event. So, your old higher rating should return within 12 months after your shoulder heals.

[dwiggmd]

Chuck,

Under the "Finalist Factors" of POY and ROY detail procedures is the sentence,

"Once the POY finalists have been determined, the following factors are calculated. The Event Rating each player threw prior to the semifinals is calculated."

Is this calculation the exact same number as the "Best Event Rating Average" used to determine the finalists for these awards? I.E. is it the best B-tiers + best "Major, NT or ET" double weighted, or are all the events equally weighted, or is it some other combination of events and weightings? Sorry if this seems like a dumb question, but it is not clear to me as written.

Dave

[cgkdisc]

This sentence: "The Event Rating each player threw prior to the semifinals is calculated." only refers to the Worlds Event Rating which only averages round ratings thru the semifinals since there are no ratings in the 9-hole finals. The Average Event Rating of a player's best seven events (the two Major/NT/ETs are double weighted) that is used to determine the POY finalists doesn't change for the final calculations. That value is currently weighted at 35% in the final calculations and the Worlds Event Rating has a 20% weight.

[jmonny]

Chuck, my 2010 stats are missing from my stats page. It doesn't seem to be the same for everyone. Is this because of the server upgrade or just the 2011 header switch.
thanks John Moncrief #21433

[cgkdisc]

I'll check into it. My 2010 stats aren't there either.

[cgkdisc]

Looks like it's fixed. You should be able to pull up your 2010 stats now.

[daomac1000]

Chuck, Will the round rating from The Memorial be included in the next player ratings update and, if so, will last years Memorial ratings drop off at this next update for those who played it last year?

[cgkdisc]

The plan is for The Memorial to be included in the upcoming ratings update. Last year's Memorial ratings will not drop off even if this year's Memorial is a player's most recent event because the starting date for last year (March 3) is less than 365 days before the starting date for this year (March 2).

[Zott]

Ok, I’ve played in tourneys since 1996 and have only dropped out 2 times in as many years, both from injuries (back related). 2010 was my second time and that was at the Stafford Lake last year in September. First round played ok sitting in 8th place. Second round while walking on hole sixteen to my lie I slipped on the dry grass, caught myself and pulled my lower back out. (very steep grade) When I got to the tee on 17 I realized I was done for the day and called it quits. I walked to the td and told him I could not finish. So I had one round done and done. I never quit, and this was not something I was doing to save my rating as I have seen many top players do, this was real. My rating was at a low 970, not bad, so I figured nothing should change being that I did not finish my second round on the first day. So until the last update my score was still 970, mind you this was in September, and now Im getting ready for Saint Pats in Sacramento and the rating changed did I realize the gave me a 4 point change down from this tourney. So I emailed the PDGA thinking something must be wrong and Kennedy answered back, stating "The Stafford Lake ProAm event at the end of August was not reported to the PDGA until January just in time for the 2010 yearend ratings update. So finally including that event brought down your rating 4 points even though you haven't played since September." "I'm sure both of those round ratings got double weighted since, from a date standpoint, they were your 3rd and 4th most recent rounds out of 24 rounds in your current rating. Your 25% most recent rounds (for you that's six) are double weighted." and finally "I looked at the tournament report and only one round was rated from that event, not two like I thought. If you complete a round and the score gets posted it gets rated regardless of what happened in the round. That's been the policy since the beginning of ratings in 1999.

The player decides whether a round should be rated or not by deciding whether to complete the round. The choice was yours. How could you expect the TD or PDGA to judge whether to include a round or not? The player has that power by putting out or not before the last hole of a round.

Here are the rounds in your rating. I can't see the PDGA display for you since you apparently haven't renewed yet or it hasn't been processed. The rounds with a Weight Factor of 2 get double weighted for your rating.

- Chuck
Sorry for the long post but it is incredible that after a real injury I am docked anything much less 4 points. Please let me know what you think of this situation as I think it is unfair for me to get punished when others get away.

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

I am just an outsider commenting on this but after looking at your ratings it wasnt the round you quit that hurt. it was the poor round( based on your rating) before and the first two rounds of your next tourney. Freedlun Memorial or something. those 3 rds all being double weighted is what brought your rating down.