Ask Chuck Kennedy

[AviarX]

SD is already calcd before doubling. SD is a derivative of the round ratings, not the doubled ratings.

so if i have 21 rated rounds, 5 are double weighted, and rather than calculate the std deviation for 26 rounds, the calculator first calculates the std deviation from the 21 rated rounds and then goes back, doubles the ratings of the most recent 5 rounds & then tallies the ratings of those 26 rounds, divides by the # of rounds (26) and then subtracts any rounds that were rated 2.5* the std deviation for the 21 rounds and recalculates the ratings minus any of those rounds that there are?

how do i make the formulas that are in place show up on your excel spreadsheet?

[sandalman]

almost.

u have 21 rated rounds;
calculate the average of 21 rated rounds;
calculate the SD from the 21 rated rounds;
calculate your range - multiply SD by 2.5 (use 100 if result > 100);
subract the range from the average to get your lower boundary;
remove any rounds rated below your average;
divide 21 by 4 ( = 5);
weight the last 5 rounds double;
your rating is the average of the rounds with doubling

[AviarX]

thanks for showing your math. i thought i subtract the range from the rating i get after using the doubled rounds in the calculation to arrive at my rating and then drop any rounds out below that number. i think i like my way better do you think we could convince Rodney and Chuck to change it?

[bruceuk]

I thought that if an event has 3+ rounds, your best round gets doubled also? Not sure how you'd incorporate this into the spreadsheet though...

Not that it's any good to me anyway. Chuck, is there a particular reason that no European events get provisional ratings? Some of us are stats geeks too you know

[ck34]

The ROUNDUP function takes care of calculating the correct number of doubled rounds. D=ROUNDUP(R/4,0) determine how many rounds (D) to double weight where R is your total number of rated rounds. One round will get rouble weighted if R=1 thru 4, 2 will get double weighted if R=5 thru 8, etc.

Bruce, the International events will produce unofficial ratings just like US events. It's up to the TDs to post them.

[AviarX]

pat, i re-looked at my calculation and i think it was the same method as yours. the only thing is it looks to me like your calculator does not drop out the round i have that is lower than 2.5 times my std deviation... do i need to do that manually? (i want those 3 extra points )

[sandalman]

the spreadsheet should apply a weighting of 0 to any dropped rounds. if you send me your rounds and ratings i will run it here and see if i can figure anything out.

[AviarX]

Ok, i sent you an email Pat. my only question now is when taking my 5 (n=21) most recent rounds to double-weight them, does it know to pick the best round from rounds 5 thru 8 or does it take the 5th round regardless?

i am down to trying to salvage one point and at least get (unofficially) to 964...

[ck34]

If N=21, then 6 are doubled...

[AviarX]

If N=21, then 6 are doubled...

Tht's funny -- the additional round that then gets doubled was a 964 and thus will drop my calculated ratings update from
a 964.1154 to 964.1111 by my unoffical calculations my round of 883 missed being dropped by 3 points
surprisingly, if that 883 round had dropped, my rating would have been slated to only go up an additional 3 points ...

[sandalman]

the spreadsheet does not know how to choose which round to double if not all rounds from an event are to be doubled. it simply doubles the last N rounds. if you want to double a particular round, just change the 1 to a 2. dont forget to change a 2 to a 1 somewhere, or you will be doubling too many rounds.

[ck34]

Would it work if players are just instructed to always put their best rounds on each date of an event first?

[sandalman]

yes, that would be one way of making it work automatically.

[the_beastmaster]

Chuck, if there's a cut at a tournament after three rounds, and you play in the final round (full 18 holes, not a final 9), does that round count like any other round and you get a rating? or does that count as finals and no rating is given? Thanks.

[the_kid]

Chuck, is the Psycho-Fish Bayou Bogey going to make the update? The event was a month ago but the ratings are still up on the tour page? I Played really well here and i hope they make it.

[ck34]

Chuck, if there's a cut at a tournament after three rounds, and you play in the final round (full 18 holes, not a final 9), does that round count like any other round and you get a rating?

Any round counts as long as it's at least 13 holes and there are at least 5 propagators. Usually 18-hole cut rounds meet both of those criteria unless it's a rare final 18 with only 4 players.

[keithjohnson]

ok chuck...
a hypothecical one for you since my virginia open ratings did NOT make the update which was before the augusta classic(which DID make the update)

if the virginia open rated rounds of 996-902(yes i said 902),986,and 978 were before the augusta open rounds...what would my theoretical rating be??

thanks in advance....
keith

[keithjohnson]

assuming you have time of course

[the_beastmaster]

Any round counts as long as it's at least 13 holes and there are at least 5 propagators. Usually 18-hole cut rounds meet both of those criteria unless it's a rare final 18 with only 4 players.

Thanks Chuck. The preliminary ratings for the PFDO have the fourth round listed as "Finals" and there aren't ratings available, so I was wondering how it would work out when it's actually official.

(Also, for some reason they have me listed as a DNF, and that had better get fixed before they turn in the TD report.)

[ck34]

The order the events get unofficially posted online doesn't matter. The dates for the rounds will be placed in order for the doubling for all events officially processed during an update period.

[ck34]

Chuck, is the Psycho-Fish Bayou Bogey going to make the update? The event was a month ago but the ratings are still up on the tour page? I Played really well here and i hope they make it.

You should know better by now. Any event still posted with unofficial results online missed the ratings update. All events that currently have official results posted with no ratings are ones in the next update. 165 events or so this time.

[the_kid]

I guess they got the results but not al the $$$ to the PDGA. Well there goes a 1023 rated event.

[the_beastmaster]

Chuck,

The oldest tournament in my ratings is from June 18th of last year. I have more than 8 rounds and my last played tournament was this past weekend, a year from that date. However, that tourney won't be in the ratings because of the June 7th deadline.

Will my tournament from June 2005 still be included in this next rating update? Basically, is the year cutoff a year from your last played tourney, or your last rated tourney?

[ck34]

It's 365 days back from the date of your most recently rated round. If your total number of rounds in that period is fewer than 8, then we go back farther to get 8 or whatever you have in 24 months if still less than 8.

[the_beastmaster]

It's 365 days back from the date of your most recently rated round. If your total number of rounds in that period is fewer than 8, then we go back farther to get 8 or whatever you have in 24 months if still less than 8.

But since my most recently rated rounds were from May 29th, 2006, that round from last June will still be included until the September update. Is that correct? Thanks, Chuck.

[ck34]

Yes

[sandalman]

&*%*$*$*%*$@#*#$%*%^* !

looks like CAPITOL OF TEXAS and WATERLOO choked on getting the results in on time

[keithjohnson]

The order the events get unofficially posted online doesn't matter. The dates for the rounds will be placed in order for the doubling for all events officially processed during an update period.

ok part 2:
i knew how it works ,hence my question about theorectical rating....as the augusta classic is making THIS update and the virginia open is NOT making this update...
i was just asking IF they both had made it what my theorectial rating would be...
that's why i listed them in round order for doubling purposes

again if you have time please

thanks,keith

[ck34]

Plug your ratings into the personal ratings calculator that Sandalman posted on the Ask CK thread. You can try a variety of "what ifs" with that.

www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=556248&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=2&fpart=2&vc=1

[briangraham]

Keith,

The reason the Augusta Classic results got posted and submitted so fast is because the tournament director was PDGA Tour Manager, Dave Gentry. Dave completed and submitted the official results (to himself ) the very next day.

Good to see you again and I look forward to meeting future World Champion and sponsor of hole 6 at Lake Olmstead, Lorelei Johnson, in Augusta next month.

Regards,
Brian Graham