Ask David Mac about new or existing Gateway Golf Discs here!!!

[JHBlader86]

So I've been putting illegally??

[cgkdisc]

If somebody called it.

[mikeP]

C'mon Dave...Your company's reputation has steadily gained prestige since I've been playing. I often advocate for you to people who view Gateway as "something done in a garage". This does not present an image of professionalism. PLEASE SUBMIT THE VOODOO! I love them and I want to continue putting with them, especially in tournaments. Thanks Dave!

[Boneman]

Interesting stuff ... should we be worried about using any other Gateway discs at tourneys coming up?

Is the Warrior approved?

I've been putting with the Voodoo for months ... I'm concerned about the approval.

[RhynoBoy]

Once the name of a disc is approved, then mold changes can be made without re-approval. (Like the Gator/GatorX Firebird/FX Eagle/EX etc.) So Warrior is cool! But if Discraft started calling Magnets, let's say Magnuts, they'd have to submit for re-approval, even though the same mold.

[gippy]

COme on Dave get the VooDoo in I have switched to them from the Warlock

[JHBlader86]

Well since us Voodoo throwers have just discovered we have been playing with an illegal disc not just once, but for entire rounds at a time should we turn ourselves in, or will we be forgiven and granted amnesty?? I would have no problem simply putting my Warlock back in the bag, but I played a tournament and won in January using the Voodoo as my main putter, and now I feel as if I cheated. Granted, its not like the Voodoo caused me to win, but I hate knowing that I broke the rules.

[cgkdisc]

Read 804.03 G(1) and see what you think.

[the_kid]

I'm sure the disc was so good it shaved 10 strokes of your score.............half the people you played with probably had an illegal disc too.

[Mark_Stephens]

SotD...

Once awards have been handed out, the tournament is over.

No worries.

[gokayaksteven]

Once the name of a disc is approved, then mold changes can be made without re-approval. (Like the Gator/GatorX Firebird/FX Eagle/EX etc.) So Warrior is cool! But if Discraft started calling Magnets, let's say Magnuts, they'd have to submit for re-approval, even though the same mold.

...a completely silly and backwards rule...

[cgkdisc]

When a company makes a product called the X-Static, they may have multiple suppliers for the same materials or components needed to make X-Static. They do not tell the consumer which suppliers' components and materials were combined for each production run. To the consumer, it's still an X-Static. How many versions of the Ford Taurus or Acer A2100 computer do you think are out there that were made with different combinations of components? Now when the Ford Taurus is called the Mercury Sable, even if it hasn't been tweaked much if any beyond the name change, it becomes a new product.

[mf100forever]

David Mac remember to send in the new retooled Element and Element X (renamed Warrior) also for approval?

[NOHalfFastPull]

Vever for Kalfu
Original ring of fire inspiration


Secret ritual held recently

Moving basket adds to challenge.

[Karl]

Chuck,

I think I know what you're getting at, but your analogy is not relevant (or misleading at best). A Taurus has many parts (thousands) to it; a golfing disc has 1 (or maybe 2 in the case of some of Quests/Gateways).
And what is important (in reality) is how the "product" performs - whether to the customer's expectations or not. In the case of the Taurus vs. Sable, everyone know they'll "perform" (basically) the same. The most important aspect of our product - the disc - will NOT perform if "tweaked" much at all (thus customer expectations are blown out of the water).
NG from a PR standpoint...as is the crux of this discussion (I think).

Karl

[cgkdisc]

Just changing the paint or upholstery color can change the heating/cooling aspects of a Taurus and the probability it will be stopped for speeding in the same way a different colorant in the same mold might change the characteristics of a disc. I doubt anyone would disagree that whacking a tree with a DX disc changes its flight characteristics more than some plastic change.

[TROTTER]

A new Warrior mid-range cannot be legal just because there was driver in the past named Warrior by the same company.

If that is truly the case - then disc approval is a joke and the money spent on it should be redirected to larger pay-outs.

[ZAMson]

A new Warrior mid-range cannot be legal just because there was driver in the past named Warrior by the same company.

Agreed. This is more like a gallon of milk being called a Taurus and costing $12,000.

I think mold pieces should be taken into consideration. Each mold piece has quantifiable characteristics visible on the molded product, and there should be reasonable allowance for run/material variation. But when a Firebird is re-topped into say, an Orion LF mold... then obviously that mold has changed. A wing change, top change, even many core changes are obvious. A simple retool or a name-Lazarus like Warrior should need approval (for a greatly reduced fee). Approval solely by marketed name doesn't work, Warrior II proves it... same name, not a single mold piece in common. That means none of the specs for the approved Warrior are correct now, are they?

In this whole situation, I think the "approval" process is more of a joke and fiasco than Dave spacing the V-doo.

[zbiberst]

the question should be, can quest rename the mold used for 'the wheel' or the 'turbo putt' and call it the 'defender' and make it legal for use? just because theyve used the name 'defender' and had it approved??

[cgkdisc]

If you could create a new policy regarding when discs or targets that have new names, parts, plastics or molds, need to be resubmitted for testing and approval, what would it be?

[the_kid]

If you could create a new policy regarding when discs or targets that have new names, parts, plastics or molds, need to be resubmitted for testing and approval, what would it be?

Pay us some consulting fees 1st.

[johnbiscoe]

If you could create a new policy regarding when discs or targets that have new names, parts, plastics or molds, need to be resubmitted for testing and approval, what would it be?

any mold changes would need to re-submit, name changes to existing mold would not. plastic would be approved by type, not by mold and type.

[cgkdisc]

Pay us some consulting fees 1st.

Glad to do it but you'd have to reimburse me for the cost of the stamp since I couldn't deduct it from the zero $$s I would send as your 5% of my Tech Standards consulting income.

[the_kid]

Glad to do it but you'd have to reimburse me for the cost of the stamp since I couldn't deduct it from the zero $$s I would send as your 5% of my Tech Standards consulting income.

Wow that was phunny Chuck.

When is that PDGA election? I saw that they had a call for candidates and was wondering if anyone had voiced that they would like to run for Executive Director?

[cgkdisc]

any mold changes would need to re-submit, name changes to existing mold would not. plastic would be approved by type, not by mold and type.

Seems like we would have to require the manufacturers to identify mold parts with a code stamped in the disc to confirm compliance?

[cgkdisc]

When is that PDGA election? I saw that they had a call for candidates and was wondering if anyone had voiced that they would like to run for Executive Director?

That's not an elected position. You would need to get elected to the Board and have at least three other Board members vote not to renew his contract whenever it was up for renewal. I believe election is in July.

[the_kid]

That's not an elected position. You would need to get elected to the Board and have at least three other Board members vote not to renew his contract whenever it was up for renewal. I believe election is in July.

Oh ok, well it would be nice to see the Pdga try something different in order to speed up the "slow and steady" that hasn't gotten us to far.

[cgkdisc]

Remember that Brian is only one part of the PDGA operation. The Board influences how "fast" changes are made along with the committees and staff. The only things that can be done faster than normal are a project you take on yourself that the PDGA agrees are worth supporting and uses few of their resources. The Super Class initiative is a recent example and data sharing with DGcoursereview.com is another. Since this is a Gateway thread, I think Dave is hoping to produce a Super Class disc when he can get to it.

[RhynoBoy]

SuperClass! I told you!

[ZAMson]

If you could create a new policy regarding when discs or targets that have new names, parts, plastics or molds, need to be resubmitted for testing and approval, what would it be?

Honor system, appended to the bulk of the current approval process. No big fees either.

If a manufacturer changes the mold configuration (excluding mold piece duplicates, like the multiple Aviar cores) then they should submit one for re-examination, at least to have the specs updated, and some note made in the Approved list of a change in configuration. It should be free, or greatly reduced, for any disc that is going to continue being marketed under the old name, or is a renamed but previously approved configuration.

If a manufacturer starts swapping mold pieces or retooling without an updated submission, then disc golfers can get in a huff and cause bad press for the manufacturer, and the PDGA can kindly request that a frisbee be sacrificed for testing.

If people swear on their lives that, for example, the domey Firebirds have a different mold top than the flat Firebirds, then Dave D can state that it's an unintentional run variation, and at his choosing send along a modern molding for updated specs, free of charge. No mold piece identification, and all respect toward trade secrets.

I think this would work for mold configurations, materials, and molding techniques (stabilizing or cooling). One-time model approval, and free/cheap updates, in the spirit of keeping the most reasonably accurate specs on the list of approved discs.