Ask Dave D about Innova Here!!! - Page 18

vwkeepontruckin · Jul 03 2005, 06:52 PM

Quote:

more spin actually causes the disc to flip more, i think

i know you've probably answered this dave, but what does cause a disc to flip?

I'm not Dave, but I know off axis spin, torque, will cause turbulance and make discs less stable than they should be.

davei · Jul 03 2005, 11:53 PM

off axis torque will cause a disc to turn over. Spin is usually associated with higher speeds and higher speeds can turn a disc over. Spin per se will not turn a disc over. Spin does stabilize a disc and a higher spin could arguably slow the rate of turn, but spin is mostly irrelevant on high speed shots. It is relevant on putts and short approaches as there may be insufficient spin to slow the rate of aerodynamic turn. Aerodynamic turn is what you see at high and low speeds, and is one of the four things we rate on our disc flight charts. Other than strange winds and off axis torque, the only thing that makes a disc turn is the disc's characteristic combined with the nose angle and speed. The slower the speed, the more likely a disc will fade, the higher the speed, the more likely a disc will turn over. That being said, there are ways to manipulate how any disc flies, up to a point. A completely flippy disc can fly stable to overstable if it is thrown slowly with nose up. A very overstable disc can become unstable at very high speeds. Nose down, down hill off a mountain such that the disc gains speed going down can do it.

MTL21676 · Jul 03 2005, 11:55 PM

DAve,

I'm broke. Could you maybe make some 11X rocs and putt an 8X stamp on it for me?

THat would roc ( yes, pun intended)

davei · Jul 03 2005, 11:58 PM

Sorry. No can do.

MTL21676 · Jul 04 2005, 12:00 AM

I tried.

quickdisc · Jul 04 2005, 12:11 AM

Quote:

I tried.

Should ask Dave for Glow plastic , resembling the old Night Flyers or Midnight Flyers !!!!!! Rocs and Aviars !!!!!

Ya know , the ones with the golf numbers on them!!!!!! [img]/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Worth a try [img]/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

hawkgammon · Jul 04 2005, 10:18 AM

Dave,

I've played three rounds with a Classic Roc, and it does appear to have more turnover resistance and a little more fade than a Spider. Are the Pro Classic Rocs made from the retooled Classic Roc mold so that they also will be 0/+2ish, or like other Pro models are they less turnover resistant?

Thanks.

davei · Jul 04 2005, 02:22 PM

Hawk, the latest run of Classic Rocs is the retooled mold, but I don't think we have run Pros since the retool. That being said, we will when stock dictates. The analogy from Champion to Pro only works for drivers. Pro mids and putters might even be more stable than their candy conterparts. We use the same configuration for putters and mids when we run Pro. We use L configurations for drivers as they take the abuse more and get the added benefit of more glide, though they lose some high speed stability.

20460chase · Jul 08 2005, 02:09 AM

Loving the Coyote Dave. Thanks.

Jul 08 2005, 02:15 AM

Does Innova make black dx discs?

Jul 08 2005, 02:25 AM

Yes. They seem to be more rare (compared to other colors) though. I've seen black rocs and aviars.

davei · Jul 08 2005, 08:41 AM

asimo, yes we do, but we try to keep it to a minimum as black is a strange color for popularity. Most places don't like it as it is hard to find and makes the disc soft in the sun. Other places love black. Hard to figure.

crotts · Jul 08 2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

asimo, yes we do, but we try to keep it to a minimum as black is a strange color for popularity. Most places don't like it as it is hard to find and makes the disc soft in the sun. Other places love black. Hard to figure.

kind of like how some people have 5 green discs and cant figure out why i complain when we are looking for them... again

: ) :

Jul 08 2005, 12:11 PM

oooh...pink or purple JK Aviars would be heavenly. If you make those I just may end up in the poor house!

Jul 08 2005, 12:28 PM

Quote:

oooh...pink or purple JK Aviars would be heavenly. If you make those I just may end up in the poor house!

I've tried white proto stamp, white, yellow, blue, and orange 3x's 4x's and 5x's trying to find that magic JK Aviar-x color, and I'm almost broke

I'd vote for purple, but i think practice may be the more practical solution

Jul 08 2005, 01:22 PM

"We use the same configuration for putters and mids when we run Pro. We use L configurations for drivers as they take the abuse more and get the added benefit of more glide, though they lose some high speed stability."

Dave, I really like the Pro Starfires and TeeBird-L's that I have. In spite of some wicked tree hits they have held up fairly well. I am not aware of an 'L' version for the Valkyrie. Can you differentiate this disk from the DX and Champion regarding high and low speed stability. I really liked the old SE's as they seemed to have the same low speed stability and had a slightly higher turn resistance than the new DX.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Jul 08 2005, 01:25 PM

Rob, I was just talking the pretty factor. I have decided that a bag full of purple and pink discs would obviously make me a better player just on the level of prettiness.

Jul 08 2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Rob, I was just talking the pretty factor. I have decided that a bag full of purple and pink discs would obviously make me a better player just on the level of prettiness.

Another Bixby suspect???

Jul 08 2005, 01:31 PM

Bixby suspect?

Jul 08 2005, 02:00 PM

Search user name Bixby within the last year.

davei · Jul 08 2005, 02:29 PM

bigtom, the Valkyrie has the same configuration for Pro as it does for DX and Champion. The flight of the latest Pro seems to have about the same high speed stability, maybe a little less overstability low speed, and definitely more glide.

Jul 08 2005, 05:43 PM

How about it Dave? Pink JK Aviars?

(That Bixby guy...what a crack-up...we need him back, wherever he is)

davei · Jul 09 2005, 10:17 AM

We've had bubble gum pink Aviars before......so..... maybe.

Dick · Jul 09 2005, 10:40 AM

i'd buy those!

Jul 09 2005, 05:11 PM

I would sell the farm, kidneys, advertising space on my huge head...whatever it takes to get pink JK Aviars

quickdisc · Jul 11 2005, 12:37 AM

Quote:

We've had bubble gum pink Aviars before......so..... maybe.

What.........Bubble Gum , Pink JK Aviar X's ?

I'll take two at 175 grams.

Jul 12 2005, 04:55 PM

What is the exact relationship between Millennium and Innova?

davei · Jul 12 2005, 08:46 PM

Innova designs and manufactures discs for Millennium.

Jul 12 2005, 08:54 PM

Dave,
oooh, a millenium question. while we are on the topic:

I recentally picked up an Xout Raven that appears to be run in the millenium plastic, but there seems to be no other defects with the disc. SO i guess i have a 2 part question; first, have you ever run any of the Innova molds in Millenium plastic? And secondly, would this result in the disc being sold as an xout?
Thanks!

davei · Jul 13 2005, 08:15 AM

discCecht, we did do a trial run of Pro Ravens. They were not marketed for long. Yes, it could have resulted in the disc being sold as an X Out.

Jul 03 2005, 11:53 PM	#512
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D Here off axis torque will cause a disc to turn over. Spin is usually associated with higher speeds and higher speeds can turn a disc over. Spin per se will not turn a disc over. Spin does stabilize a disc and a higher spin could arguably slow the rate of turn, but spin is mostly irrelevant on high speed shots. It is relevant on putts and short approaches as there may be insufficient spin to slow the rate of aerodynamic turn. Aerodynamic turn is what you see at high and low speeds, and is one of the four things we rate on our disc flight charts. Other than strange winds and off axis torque, the only thing that makes a disc turn is the disc's characteristic combined with the nose angle and speed. The slower the speed, the more likely a disc will fade, the higher the speed, the more likely a disc will turn over. That being said, there are ways to manipulate how any disc flies, up to a point. A completely flippy disc can fly stable to overstable if it is thrown slowly with nose up. A very overstable disc can become unstable at very high speeds. Nose down, down hill off a mountain such that the disc gains speed going down can do it. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Jul 03 2005, 11:55 PM	#513
MTL21676 PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Raleigh NC Posts: 9,690	Re: Ask Dave D Here DAve, I'm broke. Could you maybe make some 11X rocs and putt an 8X stamp on it for me? THat would roc ( yes, pun intended) __________________ Robert Leonard - North Carolina State Coordinator Playing worlds in 2012? Stick around and play the Midtown Chiropractic Raleigh Disc Golf Championship! An A Tier and only a 2 1/2 hour drive from Charlotte!

Jul 03 2005, 11:58 PM	#514
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D Here Sorry. No can do. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Jul 04 2005, 12:00 AM	#515
MTL21676 PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Raleigh NC Posts: 9,690	Re: Ask Dave D Here I tried. __________________ Robert Leonard - North Carolina State Coordinator Playing worlds in 2012? Stick around and play the Midtown Chiropractic Raleigh Disc Golf Championship! An A Tier and only a 2 1/2 hour drive from Charlotte!

Jul 04 2005, 10:18 AM	#517
hawkgammon Account Suspended Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Belgium Posts: 3,333	Re: Ask Dave D Here Dave, I've played three rounds with a Classic Roc, and it does appear to have more turnover resistance and a little more fade than a Spider. Are the Pro Classic Rocs made from the retooled Classic Roc mold so that they also will be 0/+2ish, or like other Pro models are they less turnover resistant? Thanks.

Jul 04 2005, 02:22 PM	#518
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D Here Hawk, the latest run of Classic Rocs is the retooled mold, but I don't think we have run Pros since the retool. That being said, we will when stock dictates. The analogy from Champion to Pro only works for drivers. Pro mids and putters might even be more stable than their candy conterparts. We use the same configuration for putters and mids when we run Pro. We use L configurations for drivers as they take the abuse more and get the added benefit of more glide, though they lose some high speed stability. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Jul 08 2005, 02:09 AM	#519
20460chase PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: 2630 16th St. Moline IL Posts: 2,085	Re: Ask Dave D Here Loving the Coyote Dave. Thanks. __________________ www.ironliondgs.com www.iowaDG.com "I dont come to bow, I come to conquer"- Bob Marley

Jul 08 2005, 02:15 AM	#520
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Ask Dave D Here Does Innova make black dx discs?

Jul 08 2005, 02:25 AM	#521
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Ask Dave D Here Yes. They seem to be more rare (compared to other colors) though. I've seen black rocs and aviars.

Jul 08 2005, 08:41 AM	#522
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D Here asimo, yes we do, but we try to keep it to a minimum as black is a strange color for popularity. Most places don't like it as it is hard to find and makes the disc soft in the sun. Other places love black. Hard to figure. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Jul 08 2005, 12:11 PM	#524
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Ask Dave D Here oooh...pink or purple JK Aviars would be heavenly. If you make those I just may end up in the poor house!

Jul 08 2005, 01:22 PM	#526
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Ask Dave D Here "We use the same configuration for putters and mids when we run Pro. We use L configurations for drivers as they take the abuse more and get the added benefit of more glide, though they lose some high speed stability." Dave, I really like the Pro Starfires and TeeBird-L's that I have. In spite of some wicked tree hits they have held up fairly well. I am not aware of an 'L' version for the Valkyrie. Can you differentiate this disk from the DX and Champion regarding high and low speed stability. I really liked the old SE's as they seemed to have the same low speed stability and had a slightly higher turn resistance than the new DX. Thanks in advance for your reply.

Jul 08 2005, 01:25 PM	#527
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Ask Dave D Here Rob, I was just talking the pretty factor. I have decided that a bag full of purple and pink discs would obviously make me a better player just on the level of prettiness.

Jul 08 2005, 01:31 PM	#529
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Ask Dave D Here Bixby suspect?

Jul 08 2005, 02:00 PM	#530
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Ask Dave D Here Search user name Bixby within the last year.

Jul 08 2005, 02:29 PM	#531
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D Here bigtom, the Valkyrie has the same configuration for Pro as it does for DX and Champion. The flight of the latest Pro seems to have about the same high speed stability, maybe a little less overstability low speed, and definitely more glide. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Jul 08 2005, 05:43 PM	#532
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Ask Dave D Here How about it Dave? Pink JK Aviars? (That Bixby guy...what a crack-up...we need him back, wherever he is)

Jul 09 2005, 10:17 AM	#533
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D Here We've had bubble gum pink Aviars before......so..... maybe. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Jul 09 2005, 10:40 AM	#534
Dick PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Out hunting nomads... Posts: 1,806	Re: Ask Dave D Here i'd buy those!

Jul 09 2005, 05:11 PM	#535
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Ask Dave D Here I would sell the farm, kidneys, advertising space on my huge head...whatever it takes to get pink JK Aviars

Jul 12 2005, 04:55 PM	#537
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Ask Dave D Here What is the exact relationship between Millennium and Innova?

Jul 12 2005, 08:46 PM	#538
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D Here Innova designs and manufactures discs for Millennium. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

Jul 12 2005, 08:54 PM	#539
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Ask Dave D Here Dave, oooh, a millenium question. while we are on the topic: I recentally picked up an Xout Raven that appears to be run in the millenium plastic, but there seems to be no other defects with the disc. SO i guess i have a 2 part question; first, have you ever run any of the Innova molds in Millenium plastic? And secondly, would this result in the disc being sold as an xout? Thanks!

Jul 13 2005, 08:15 AM	#540
davei PDGA Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca Posts: 5,639	Re: Ask Dave D Here discCecht, we did do a trial run of Pro Ravens. They were not marketed for long. Yes, it could have resulted in the disc being sold as an X Out. __________________ Innova info By far, the most important part of any shot is what is happening in the last split second as the disc is pulling itself from your grip. Focus there. It's the key.

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