Ask Dave D about Innova Here!!!

Just got an Ebay disc and it says BB on the back. Its old and has the Ching flying eye stamp. It looks kind of driverish. Is this a Ching Bomb? Thanks to anyone who answers.

[davei]

Tim, if the disc is the same size as an Aviar, it is most likely an overweight 91. (Legal to 175gm) If it is the size of a Roc, it might be a 77, 78, or 44.

[davei]

FlyinHigh, the second sounds like an L version. The more curvey x version should have more stability, especially low speed.

[davei]

Roc Steady, it should be a bomb, as BB was the marking. A Bomb was a pretty line drive type disc similar to a Banshee, but with a straighter finish.

[adogg187420]

Cool, thanks Dave.

[timherring]

Tim, if the disc is the same size as an Aviar, it is most likely an overweight 91. (Legal to 175gm) If it is the size of a Roc, it might be a 77, 78, or 44.

Hi Dave, it's definitely nothing like an aviar, the profile is more roc like, did they do different discs that year with the same stamp then? My stamp is that of the outline of the states, the same one they have on that website flyinvegas posted, how do i find out for sure?

Tim

Dave, why is it that I love Valkyries so much? I try to throw other drivers, but I always come back to the Valkyries. I especially notice this when I am having form issues. The Valk just seems to be more consistent for me than any other disc.

Is the Valkyrie less touchy when it comes to form problems than some of the other discs?

Oh yeah, one more thing...keep making these softer JK Aviar-X discs. They are absolutely magical. I think I might cry if I lose any of them and find out I can't replace them.

[davei]

Tim, I'm guessing a little but, I believe the 91 had San Marino engraving on the bottom, an XD looking bevel edge and looked a little like a smaller Stingray. Flew like it too. It was only the diameter of an Aviar, but didn't look like it. I think the other discs had Ontario engraving on the bottom. The 44 was like a Viper and the 77 and 78 looked like a Stingray and Cobra respectively.

[davei]

ajones, no worries about the JK Aviars. The recent run was the best we have ever done. The Valk does tend to forgive one classic problem: nose up throws. If your form problem involves crashing to the fade, then you are probably throwing nose up.

Dave, are you stalking me? Nose-up does seem to be my main issue when I really get down to it. Are there other discs that I can use as a crutch until I figure out a way to rid myself of nose up throwing?

[Lyle O Ross]

matchu, yes the Beast has been tweaked twice.

What does this mean?

The Beast is my go to driver, it is just stable enough to keep from flipping on me. I've been using discs all purchased approx a year ago but just bought a new one. Is it going to fly differently?

[davei]

ajones, yes, a Sidewinder or Pro Valkyrie.

thanks Dave

ajones, yes, a Sidewinder or Pro Valkyrie.

Really!?! I've always felt that my sidewinder was very nose sensitive, almost as much as my orc. If you get the nose up a touch, the "S" is small, and the glide is gone. maybe it's more height sensitive than nose sensitive, as it's more my weight shift than nose angle that sends them skyward for me.

Maybe it's me, maybe I got a freak disc...It sure did fly great today though (I think I may have tickled the 400' mark for the first time ever)

Hi Dave,

Question about patents:

I bought an early Piranha (tall, narrow Thumbtrac) the other day that has the notation "Pat. Pend." on the Thumbtrac and lacks the "Patent No. 4.568,297" on the bottom of the flight plate. Am I correct in presuming that the "Pat. Pend." notation refers to the Thumbtrac patent rather than Patent No. 4,568,297?

Also, in checking my other Piranhas and Birdies, I noticed that none of them have the "Patent No. 4,568,297" notation on them, either. Were there other disc models introduced after the patent was granted that do not have the patent number?

Thanks for your reply.

I find the same thing. My Champ Valkyries are less nose angle sensitive than Sidewinders which are faster but seem to require more finesse. I just put another Champ Valk in the bag and am considering putting back in my Champ Cheetahs too. Dave are they another disc you can throw nose up to get to fly straight?

Hi Dave,

Question about patents:

I bought an early Piranha (tall, narrow Thumbtrac) the other day that has the notation "Pat. Pend." on the Thumbtrac and lacks the "Patent No. 4.568,297" on the bottom of the flight plate. Am I correct in presuming that the "Pat. Pend." notation refers to the Thumbtrac patent rather than Patent No. 4,568,297?

Also, in checking my other Piranhas and Birdies, I noticed that none of them have the "Patent No. 4,568,297" notation on them, either. Were there other disc models introduced after the patent was granted that do not have the patent number?

Thanks for your reply.

I think that the 4568297 patent is for the sharp nosed driver style of disc, with the patented triangular shaped rim. The two you listed are stub nosed up discs. I could be wrong though.

[20460chase]

ajones, yes, a Sidewinder or Pro Valkyrie.

You wouldnt lump a Champion Viking in this category?

Dave -- is there a reason you don't make beadless aviars anymore? My first JK that I acquired, I still putt with today, and its bead has worn completely off. I can't putt with my new ones!

[Plankeye]

Felix, I was talking to Mike N. about this a few weeks ago and he mentioned that the patent was for the nose of the disc. He also said that he thinks the patent ran out.

[davei]

Felix, yes, all of our discs that don't have triangular rims, did not have the patent on them, starting with the Apple, Super Nova, Zephyr, Birdie, etc.

[davei]

Robj, the Leopard would be better than the Cheetah for that.

[davei]

chase, the Viking is less nose sensitive than many of our other drivers, but more so than a Valkyrie or Sidewinder.

[davei]

al, we haven't done beadless in a long time. The small bead took its place as it was more comfortable in the hand for most, and would wear better. The beadless felt sharp on the bottom and wore jaggedly.

Thanks for the info Dave. Is a Barry Schultz Leopard in the works?

one other question. i've noticed that when i throw my Sidewinder through a narrow dogleg right alley, i worry i may flip it too much and so i put a ton of spin on it but this seems to keep it from flipping soon enough. would you recommend less spin or just adjusting where i aim?

[Plankeye]

robj, i think dave said earlier in this thread that the BS leopard wouldn't be making an apperance until all of the other leopards that have the standard stamp are sold.

I think he said about 5 or 6 months until that happens.

[davei]

robj, following post answered the first question. As for the Sidewinder going around a corner. Nose angle is most critical. For a straight flight use a little nose up or more height. For a turn throw flat hard. For a fast turn pull the nose down through the snap. Spin is irrelevant except than it tends to pull the nose down with wrist extending open.

Okay, I'll try that Dave. I think i tend to over-compensate worrying if i throw very hard it will flip too soon -- i may be getting the nose up more than i think (muscle memory from throwing lids). I have heard that a lot of spin tends to keep a disc from flipping and that seems to be my experience. Doesn't a lot of spin create a gyroscope like effect that holds the disc in a given orientation?

i thought about it some more and i guess that's what you're saying. spin isn't an issue because if i get the nose angle right spin will just hold the angle i give it (?)

[Dick]

more spin actually causes the disc to flip more, i think

i know you've probably answered this dave, but what does cause a disc to flip?