Political or Personal (renamed by admin)

For those of you that missed it, check out the MSDGC thread for a letter from PDGA HQ to Jason Southwick about the MSDGC's NT status. In the letter it states that:

Please also be advised that Jason is now on the verge of facing further disciplinary action by the PDGA under Article 10, Section 1 of the Constitution for bringing the association, its staff, and volunteers into public disrepute and thereby "working against the principles of the PDGA, or injuring the good standing of another Active or Supporting member." Should the PDGA read or otherwise learn of any further inflammatory posts or comments made by Jason, the PDGA will have no choice but to move forward
with disciplinary process against him.

http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showfla...=&fpart=8&vc=1 - MSDGC thread link

Read up the thread and you will find that Jason is, well, let's just say he isn't the biggest fan of Brian Hoeniger. Comments were made that most definitely would be considered inflammatory. As far as 'injuring the good standing of another active or supporting member', well, I would think you could spank half the members that post on this board if you really wanted to obey the letter of that law.

However, (and you had to know there was a 'however' coming) would it not be considered hypocrisy if the above-mentioned 'Guru' has also made comments on this very board that could certainly be considered 'inflammatory' and 'working against the principles of the PDGA' and even 'bringing the association, its staff, and volunteers into public disrepute'?

8/27/04 3:47 pm
Chuck what does your comment have to do with anything except the fact that too many years of US capitalist imperialism/global bullying has made for a most inequitable world?

http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showfla...=&fpart=1&vc=1 - read more comments here

I also seem to remember some comments made on one of the 'political' threads, but for some reason can't find them now. Hmmm....

I am not here to defend Jason, and as you'll see on the MSDGC thread, Jason has begun to take steps to clear the matter up.

My question (if there really is one) is what was done about the posts 'Guru' made, and who (if anyone) holds 'Guru' up to the same standards as the rest of the membership?

[rhett]

The quote you used doesn't fit your argument. I know you can find better ammo than that to use against guru. So go find it and use it.

American policies abroad affect non-Americans a whole lot differently than they affect us US citizens, and that affects the perception of our country. Stating that he feels that US tactics are akin to global bullying is nothing like personal attacks against another specific PDGA member.

[ck34]

I was going to take him to task on that comment but decided his remarks were legitimate and it would just be proving the point about bullying tactics if I did...

[gnduke]

I don't recall the PDGA jumping on any club or individual in a n inflammatory manner.

[okcacehole]

What was wrong with that letter...even the person mentioned admitted being a dumb arse at times...Nothing was wrong with it..our rules exist to promote, not degrade, the PDGA and disc golf.

If we didn't have rules, we might as well all still be up trees flinging crap on each other - Red Foreman

[neonnoodle]

Remember that kid in the school bus who took great joy in pitting one kid against another for no more reason than sick sadist pleasure?

"I bet Jimmy can kick Johnny's but."

That is the essence of most of Dan's posts...

Coming from you Nick, I'll take that as some form of compliment.

Do y'all think it's fine for 'Guru' to badmouth the US (while posting under the moniker of 'PDGA Office' no less) and not even get a slap on the wrist while Southwick is threatened with loss of his PDGA membership for what he said?

The 'Executive Director' of this fine organization should be held to a higher standard, don't you think?

Gary, I put 'The PDGA' in quotes for a reason. As Executive Director, 'Guru' is the highest profile representative of 'The PDGA', and what he says in public could easily be construed as representing the thoughts of the organization.

Similar to how what Dubya says in public is considered representative of the views of the people of the U.S.A.

[gnduke]

where I was raised, badmouthing was telling lies about someone to discredit or humilate them. Being embarrassed when someone called you on something you really did was your own fault.

The two references I saw on your links were not far enough from the truth for me to consider them "badmouthing". Maybe a little too much for the "PDGA Office" id, but certainly not too much for a personal ID.

Do y'all think it's fine for 'Guru' to badmouth the US (while posting under the moniker of 'PDGA Office' no less) and not even get a slap on the wrist while Southwick is threatened with loss of his PDGA membership for what he said?

Is the USA, or President Bush a PDGA member?

[bruce_brakel]

Is the USA, or President Bush a PDGA member?

I checked. They are not. But now I wonder if Guru's INS caseworker is reading his posts on the message board!

Gee, in what might just be a convenient database glitch, several posts on the MSDGC thread and on here have disappeared. Great job, bored monitor.

[sandalman]

and we all trust electronic voting with no paper trail! what collosal idiots we are. empires and societies have fallen due to greed, ego, over-indulgence, and a host of other reasons. but i suspect we will be the first to fall from sheer and utter stupidity.

[gnduke]

Naw, I'm sure it's been done before. Just not on as grand a scale as automation makes possible.

Quote: "My question (if there really is one) is what was done about the posts 'Guru' made, and who (if anyone) holds 'Guru' up to the same standards as the rest of the membership? "

First of all, I think "trouble-maker" in the re: line would be a great name for a disc!

As for the quote, I guess the answer would be the commissioner and the PDGA board, not us.

As for Guru's anti-US comments, I have absolutely no problem with them at all, and can't imagine anyone mistaking these comments with an official PDGA stance.

I do have a problem with posts disappearing and censorship in general.

Don't worry Kurt, no one could mistake the intent of a comment that gets deleted, anyway. Even if it is posted under the moniker of PDGAOffice.

It is nice to see that my question has been answered. When an alleged monitor of an alleged discussion board deletes posts that he (or another monitor, if it wasn't Nick that did the deleting) was involved in, well, it is poor form, to say the least.

You must have accountability in that position, as ludicrous as it may seem. Any one with a smidgen of common sense would know that.

[sandalman]

As for Guru's anti-US comments, I have absolutely no problem with them at all, and can't imagine anyone mistaking these comments with an official PDGA stance.

from where i sit this particular discussion seems a bit overblown. at the same there does seem to be a general underlying situation with the board monitoring activities. while the censorship does feel like its applied on an ad hoc basis, thats probably just the nature of the board. so be it.

i do strongly question the practice of posting anything other than PDGA business under the name "pdgaoffice" or any other name that can create the perception that the post is directly from the PDGA.

[rhett]

i do strongly question the practice of posting anything other than PDGA business under the name "pdgaoffice" or any other name that can create the perception that the post is directly from the PDGA.

This part I agree with. I would like to see Brian create a "Just Brian" account for personal forays into the madness. It's a waste of his time, but if he wants to do it it shouldn't be with "PDGA Office".

As for the censorship, the stupider people get (not the people who are less smart, but the action of all of us getting more stupid) into posting retarded crap on this board, the more things that need deletin'. And then there is always the problem of where to draw the line. When Marty ran the board, he installed a monitor of a decidedly Jesus-persuasion. Marty is about as free-speech as you can get, being tree-hugging hippie from NorCal and all, but suddenly posts were being deleted for questioning creationism! So it all depends on who has the moderator key as to where the line is drawn.

But I will tell you this: the more stupid crap we post, the more that needs to be deleted. Cry all you want abotu censorship, but this isn't a free board. It's paid for by the PDGA. (i.e., those of us pay dues and play PDGA tourneys). The harder it gets to maintain this forum, the better looking the "members only/disc golf topics only" paradigm will become. Think about it. Instead of having to decide if someone calling Bush a liar and thief and murderer is bad enough to delete the post, it suddenly become easy: it's not disc golf so it's gone. Also, with members-only you can actually ban someone without them creating a new account 2 seconds later.

Hey, it is what it is. This is the PDGA website and supposedly DISCussion, but we're a bunch of idiots on here making tons of stupid posts. Actions have consequences.

And there is always rec.sport.disc for swearing and calling Bush a murderer and stuff. That's usenet. That's unmoderated, man.

[Pizza God]

I have to agree with the last 2 posts too.

Guru, when you post as "PDGA Office" it should be to answer questions about the PDGA or to set the record straight.

Anytime you want to bash us Americans or just post the same garbage that we all do, use GURU or something. That way STUPID topics like this will not be started up.

As far as censorship, being on the reciving end of bashing, I was still against the deletion of the thread. I hate missing the missing posts. Sometimes the old "Big Red Killa" stuff was fun to read.

Actually, 'guru' can post whatever he wants and make a complete [*****] of himself, since the monitor will just cover his [*****] anyway and delete it.

There were posts by 'guru' that were deleted from both this thread and the MSDGC thread yesterday. It sure would be nice to know what the 'Executive Director' had to say, don't you think?

There happens to be a shipload of 'inflammatory' and 'offensive' posts on the Presidential Election thread by one Nick Kight that haven't been deleted.

Actually, 'guru' can post whatever he wants and make a complete [*****] of himself, since the monitor will just cover his [*****] anyway and delete it.

There were posts by 'guru' that were deleted from both this thread and the MSDGC thread yesterday. It sure would be nice to know what the 'Executive Director' had to say, don't you think?

There happens to be a shipload of 'inflammatory' and 'offensive' posts on the Presidential Election thread by one Nick Kight that haven't been deleted.

You are inaccurate Dan. I did not delete any of Brians posts. Posts that reply to "moved" posts also get moved. The thread has been moved back so that folks can judge for themselves who was flaming, bullying and generally being a [*****].

As soon as it is settled, which I thought it had been, I will again remove it, more to the protection of others image than to any of the PDGA BODs or Brian.

Nick Kight
PDGA Message Board Monitor & Assistant Web Master

[rhett]

There is something inherently wrong with Nick Kight being a messafge board moderator. He posts more than anybody and argues more than anybody. And calls more people stupid than anybody else. And he doesn't discuss stuff, he rams his opinions down everyone else's pie-holes.

And he can simply delete your posts if he can't beat you into submission.

[james_mccaine]

I have no idea what y'all are talking about, but where did these posts get moved to?

[ck34]

Would you rather have a course pro who never plays the course or one who is there every day and is mostly playing? Neither option is necessarily best but the latter is probably better. It's rare to find the course pro who is there every day watching and working and rarely playing. They're a few out there, but it would be just as hard to find someone who spends lots of time just monitoring and not posting.

[wheresdave]

What I would really like is to see the rating updates

[james_mccaine]

Nick is a course pro?

I prefer course pros with easy going temperments and those who are not shocked by strong opinions, criticisms, or extremely tasteless golfers using their course.

Nick is a course pro?

I prefer course pros with easy going temperments and those who are not shocked by strong opinions, criticisms, or extremely tasteless golfers using their course.

Seems that he is doing exactly what he complains about. That must really suck to have such a small closed mind. [img]/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[stevemaerz]

James, somehow you missed Chuck's analogy.

Nick is not a course pro that I'm aware of. However Chuck was saying that just as a course pro can better do his duty by being on the course frequently so can a message board moderator due a better job moderating if he visits the board frequently.
It just so happens Nick is very opinionated and very anxious to share his opinions to all of us(extravert). Nick, for those of you who don't know him, is a decent guy in person who commits himself to the betterment of the sport and his local region.I enjoy being in his group at tournaments as he is encouraging,laid back and witty. He often will drive over an hour to participate in workdays to improve courses in our MADC region. Unfortunately for those of you who only know his cyber persona you may find him abrasive and too strong willed or unwilling to give credence to an opposing viewpoint. I do find this a shame as I know his (believe it not) kinder, gentler offline self.
Just last night I watched The Wizard of Oz. If you recall the wizard had this menacing on screen presence with smoke and fire and intimidating voice. Well that's Nick's online persona at times (unintentional by the way). Then Dorothy pulls back the curtain to find a harmless gentle old man who was the voice of the wizard. This old man actually fulfills the wishes of the scarecrow,tinman and lion and sends Dorothy home to Auntie Em.Well that's a little closer to Nick in person.

[ck34]

He'll love the 'old man' part, now that he'll be a Master in 2005

[james_mccaine]

Nick is the course pro in Oz? If Dorothy clicks her heels three times, does Nick let her play the course without 2 meter penalty strokes?

ps. I have no problem with Nick or his opinions, I'm just not sure that he makes the best monitor.