Where are we playin today ?

[twoputtok]

Originally Posted by sschumacher

Here's one Paul.

Have the ODGF sell a tax deductable "punch card" good for 20 choice mullies at any TDSA mini. One or two mully only use per event. $20 for non-TDSA members. $10 for members.

Now thats constructive and a good idea.

[pdorries]

Originally Posted by sschumacher

Here's one Paul.

Have the ODGF sell a tax deductable "punch card" good for 20 choice mullies at any TDSA mini. One or two mully only use per event. $20 for non-TDSA members. $10 for members.

Not a bad idea at all. I'll be sure to bring it up at our next meeting.

One of the goals for the OKDGF is to take some of the financial burden of course maintenance off of the TDSA. There will be a lot of documentation of our foundation goals and ideas once we really get off the ground. We are in the process of setting up a solid base for the foundation to grow on before we start the ball rolling on implementing ideas, but we are close.

Back to the TDSA, I think the main thing to watch should be the reaction of the players who aren't members. It is just my opinion that it isn't fair to them. If they don't really care about the 20% or even notice it, then I guess I don't see the harm. I just would hate for someone to feel wronged and cheated by the club over a measly 3 or 4 bux of their payout. If it ends up not being a big deal with the non-member players and it isn't a deterent of newcomers, then I may change my views on it.

[twoputtok]

Paul, you had mentioned earler, that is would prevent them from getting a disc. With our current payout structure most players cashing in the Ams will not have enough to get a disc. We are talking about a $10 payout being $8 or $5 being $4. Its really not that big of a difference. But as a whole it adds up accross all players. I think this is why most of the TD's have started to allow banking of winnings by players. If they don't have enough, just bank it until they do.

I was talking with someone else just bit ago and they made a statement that rang true. With most of our players that participate in the INT and ADV and PRO divisions, they have been around for a while now. If they are not members by now, then why not? These are not newbie's.

Also, I like what you said about the ODGF and its mission. This would be great to have an outlet to administer course maint and upkeep. This would allow the TD's to do what they do best, run events. I know you don't agree with whats on the table now. But we have to start somewhere if we want courses and top events. That I know we agree on. This will be interesting to see where we are in 4 years, with the ODGF coming on. Looks promising.

[pdorries]

ATTENTION TULSA DISC GOLFERS:

If you are looking for a place to beat the heat, and bring your disc golf game to a new level, Blackhawk is still being mowed and is playing really TIGHT right now. Splash on some bug spray and check out the course...

It looks so beautiful right now!!! It would be playable for a mini as is, and with a few trimmed limbs could even host a tourney.

I've been out there four times in the past couple weeks and it is really a joy to play right now (try to stay in the fairways for maximum enjoyment! haha)

[arhunt]

What is the purpose of TDSA? Can someone point me in the direction of a mission statement? You would have to ask Wayne, I'm not sure if they have a written mission statement.

Our desire as a club is to get people interested and excited about Frisbees. Not to make money. Money is a very useful resource. Is TDSA having an issue with finances? Is that why we are trying to increase our membership? While I'm not an Admin, I can assure you the club is not having financial difficulties. However, in the near future the club will require a large infusion of captial in order to host a major event. The city will not be able to assist with this. The responsibilty of the courses has always been on the shoulders of the club. This doesn't come cheap. If the club doesn't make money, then you don't have events to play or new courses going in. These things don't happen with just peace, love and tye-dye.

So, we need more money because are courses need work and to run events? Very reasonable, in my opinion.

What does a larger membership mean for TDSA? More influence in the community? More leverage with the PDGA? The ability to attract sponsors for the various events we promote? Yes to all three. In addition the club will need a larger active membership to pull offf a major also.

So, we can agree that a larger membership is a good thing.

What makes a non-member a bad thing? I think that non-members who participate in minis are awesome! Everybody who plays in a mini is giving money to TDSA! We should be encouraging people to participate in minis. Not giving them a reason to not play! Being a non-mem is not a bad thing. We were all non-mems at one time, we were all newbie's at one time. Yes, everyone that playes is giving money but members are giving more and getting less than those of you that continually play minis but don't join.
How is it not giving a new member a reson not to play? Did is cost the new player more to play? No. It only affects those non-mems that play a lot of minis, who cash regularly without being a member.

Members give $20 more a year. They get more benefit than non-members; disc, tag, mini, the right to vote, etc....

As a club, we would be much better off talking to people individually and explaining why becoming a member is a good idea. Tell them how TDSA has installed and maintained courses throughout the years. Invite them to one of the great events that TDSA puts on. Explain to them that becoming a member not only supports TDSA, but allows them to become involved in the process! I agree and I can say I have see just about every TD in town use this approach on new players. It hasn't worked.

While it may be true that TD's do this, in the three years that I have been participating in minis, I have never had anybody (TD or not) personally encourage me to join the TDSA. (FYI, I am a current member of TDSA)

What is being proposed is equivalent to telling people that if they are not a member, we don't want them to participate! That's absolutely ridiculous!
Then why are you a proud member of the PDGA at 5 times the ost of a TDSA membership? They charge ALL non-mems to play their events an extra fee over the entry. We are only talking about charging a fee to those that cash. Adam, do you think you can go out to Meadow Brook every day and play without a membership? Can you go to All American to work out day after day without some type of membership? I'd have to answer no to both of those questions. So why is it wrong of the club to allow ALL players to enter at the same price, member or not but to charge a small fee against those non-members that continually cash at most club events but refuse to be a memebr, such as yourself.

It is wrong to charge non-members unequally. I think a one dollar non-member fee per mini is much more reasonable. If one non-member plays better than another non-member, he pays? Ridiculous.

I think the modified payout table is a horrible idea. I will not play any minis for the month of September.
I'm sure you do feel that way, since you are what we were trying to address.
Adam, would you not agree that your disc golf career, along with Paul's and josh's would not be where they are without the club's support? let me clarify that....had it not been for the club and all of the courses and events that they have made available to you to play, would you now the pro you are and a proud member of the PDGA?
Why is it that you feel you are entitled to full membership benefits without the price of a membership? Why is it you feel you are above or against a membership with the club that has helped you grow as a player but gladly pay your money to the PDGA?

Is TDSA a for-profit organization? TDSA is not a members only club. TDSA is a group of people who love Frisbees and seek to encourage the growth of Frisbee as a sport/hobby. One of the main reasons I go to TDSA events is to support the TDSA. We need more reasons for people to become members. Next year, we should do the bag tags for members only. We need more members only events. Discounts for members at large events.

You're calling me the problem that you are trying to fix. Look how it has made me react? Still think it's a good idea?

Plain and simple the club needs an endowment type of funding to insure that they can host the major that you and other players have asked for.
Had it not been for the club that you choose not to be a member of you would have :
MClure, Haikey, Hunter, Dovillio with Dirt pads, NO Hawks, No Lodge, NO Moose Run, No Centennial.........and thats about it.......get the point.

I have never asked TDSA to host any type of event. I am very grateful for all that TDSA, yourself included, has done.

Who do you think made that happen? Members.

What have you done for disc golf lately Adam? Or ever?

I'm questioning the merits of your idea, not you. I hold no illusions about my level of influence.

[Martin_Norris]

Originally Posted by pdorries

whether you realize it or not, the professional growth of the sport is a necessity for large scale amateur growth in the long run. you are only hurting the eventual growth of the sport with your narrow minded Am only mindset.

Sorry but you have it back wards the pro pool is fed by the ams the more ams that play and compete the more graduate to pro status
you feed the ranks of pro players by increasing the base number of am players not the other way around, Us-el (the strength at the base of the pyramid)
Hey Paul look at it this way study the AMWAY model if you doubt the facts of the base needing to grow to support the top.

[Martin_Norris]

Originally Posted by pdorries

Wise, are you telling me all those accomplishments and AWESOME things the club has done for the Tulsa disc golf community have actually happened??

How on earth did you accomplish all those things without charging non members 50% or 30% of whatever percent of their payout??

There are other ways to make money than taking from payout. Why is that such an important issue?

The club has a great list of achievements under its belt, and they seem to have been able to do all of this without the tax to non-members.

Why all the effort and energy to charge non-members now? Is the club getting short on funding? Perhaps other methods of fund raising can be drawn up instead of this. Why is this way of making money so important? Is there not any other alternative?

Why? because the PDGA is making it increasingly more expensive to put on big time top rated events and sanction them (we have had this discussion for two months last year) you are a CPA and as such you must know about balance sheets. upper tier events B, A, and NT all require added cash minimums that must be met, that costs extra. Pros like yourself all require extra amenities that are not required for recreational players IE longer tougher courses that do not suit the general playing public, concrete tee pads, first rate baskets, manicured courses, benches, trash cans, huge event staffs, event parties, and the list goes on and on.
Because the TDSA is not a government agency we cannot print money or draft labor so we are face with raising money to pay for what you want
DUH

[Barber Shop]

I just want to throw my 2 cents in this crazy discussion.

I am a "Non-Member" I enjoyed helping Haikey get back on its feet with some new holes to throw at. And I always enjoy helping clean up blackhawk before a tournament.

My point is, Membership does not put the drive in someone to help when help is needed. And its not like the club is going to turn me away from helping just because I am a "Non-Member".

With all that being said, I have been apart of the tulsa disc golf scene for about 7 years and never had a reason to become a member. But if I know I will be losing money by not being a member, then sign me up.

I think it was Adam that suggested just adding a dollar on top of the entry fee to Non-Members, and do away with the idea of deducting it from the winnings. This is the way to do this !!! you will eliminate confusion and delay. and possibly generate more money for the club. "since that is really what all this is about"

[twoputtok]

Adam, while members give $20 a year and yes they receive a benefit, they actually give more. People that are members tend to get involved. For example Paul , Josh and Dr. Jim. The more we have involved the better the club can become. But while you feel members are recieving a benefit, I feel non-mems are receiving just as much benefit without any comittment.

I'm sorry no one has approached you. Is that what it required to get you to join this year? Were you not aware of what the club provides to you and others all over town?
Why did you decide to join Adam?

Since you are a current member, then congratulations. I guess you joined for the 1st time just recently. If you had been a member previously, your name would still be listed. I apologize for that, all I had was the TDSA site to go off of. I guess we can agree it needs updated. That was another topic at the meeting, to keep the list current.

I can agree with you that it would be best to charge all non-mems the same way. But the club wouldn't buy off on that one. I have approached them with it. It was strongly voted down. In addition, the club would raise a little more money charging all non-mems an extra dollar than the format I proposed. Not much more, I designed this one to try and raise the equivilant of an extra dollar per person. The totals are almost the same. Based off of conservitive projections the club could raise close to 10K by the time a major rolls around.

The TDSA is a Not for profit org. I'll tell you like I told them when I got into the club. Not for profit doesn't mean you have to be broke. Not for profit means we don't keep the money, it doesn't mean we can't build it up for a major project. It takes capital to run an org and grow it and the bigger it gets the more capital needed. 6 years ago, the club only had to take care of about a half dozen 18 hole courses. That has since doubled but the money we collect hasn't kept up. Some not for profits have some of the biggest bank accounts around and they do many good things in their communities with that money.

I agree with your member only events, bag tags and discounts.
I liked Furdogs idea of a member mulligan punch card, although could be hard to coordinate unless all players have access to mulligans.

I never said you asked for any events to be put on. I asked you to answer if the TDSA has helped make it possible for you to be the player you are? and If so, why not a member? I will quickly admit, that if it weren't for the TDSA, I would't be the half arsed golfer I am now. I would'nt have worked on Worlds, I wouldn't have put in Centennial, a lot of things I wouldn't have done and others I'm sure could say the same. There have been many before us that did huge things for disc golf in this town. Why? They were part of the club.
The club is why we all play minis, right?
The club is why we have new courses, right?
Then why doesn't every one join the club?

Its an ever changing landscape of whos is moving and shaking within the club. I predict Duff to be the next big mover and shaker locally. We also now have the ODGF, which I expect to help take us to the next level. As long as we have a strong membership, we as a club can do just about what ever we can imagine.

I don't mind you questioning the merits of it. Thats how things get resolved. My accusations towards you were based on your complaints and the fact that you didn't show up as a member, while offering no solutions or alternatives.
I am obviously wrong on that one. You came back with constructive critisism and observations. I commend you for that. Thanks for supporting YOUR club.

I do wish your level of influence were stronger though. Many of the new players look up to the top pros in the area and seem to follow their lead. Be it good or bad.

Sorry to be so harsh earlier but this is something that I have questioned for a long time. Why be a member? How can we make a membership more desireable, create value and raise money at the same time. Now with the club's swag pack, you get your $20 worth right up front. But to me thats not enough. I want nicer courses, I want bigger events, I want a larger membership. And I'd like to get it all for free, but I just don't see that happening.
SO if we don't address this ourselves no one's going to do it for us.

[pdorries]

Martin,

Why are you trying to explain this elementary idea of yours to me like I don't understand it? Do you think I believe the sport will grow bigger just by catering to professionals? Obviously not, it is a two headed monster, a complete package. You won't grow the amateur side alone, it would only get so big if you focus solely on amateurs. It has to be looked at as one entity, pros and ams. Both sides must be catered to and grown with equal amounts of effort.

If you need me to explain that concept any further, or you disagree with it, then you are TRUELY, with all respect, wasting my time.

If you would get off your high horse of the PDGA being this money sucking monster, you would realize that they are actually doing a good job by promoting the amateur side by supporting programs like EDGE. They are also doing their best to grow the professional side by increasing awareness of the sport and increasing the professionalism level.

You have this concept that I don't understand the way it works, when honestly, it is you that does not understand. You bring the same arguments to the table every post and I'm quite sick of it. I am an avid fan of growing our sport, but it can't be done solely by catering to ams, and neglecting pros like you do by not sanctioning your events (pros care about sanctioned events because it is how we measure our professional success). Southern nationals has figured out a way to cater to the pros by having a huge event every year with a great payout, and they are non sanctioned, but I don't see the same mentallity from you. You just think the pros are a waste of resources and energy, and you are wrong. Some of your precious AMs will leave the nest someday and want to play pro, and when they have nothing to play for anymore, you are neglecting part of the community.

I may be able to explain it to you better if you were willing to listen to me, but since you probably won't even read my post in its entirety, I will stop here and go about my day by brushing away that annoying buzzing fly noise in my ear.

[twoputtok]

Originally Posted by Barber Shop

I
With all that being said, I have been apart of the tulsa disc golf scene for about 7 years and never had a reason to become a member. But if I know I will be losing money by not being a member, then sign me up.


I think it was Adam that suggested just adding a dollar on top of the entry fee to Non-Members, and do away with the idea of deducting it from the winnings. This is the way to do this !!! you will eliminate confusion and delay. and possibly generate more money for the club. "since that is really what all this is about"

Abe, just asking but why have you never consdiered being a member before?
Is it because you got all the same stuff without having to buy a membership? If, so I undesrstand.

And yes, I have seen you volunteer your time on numerous occasions. THANK YOU!


I am in FULL agreement with the $1 extra, that was my first approach about a year ago. You are right, less confusion, easier accounting, doesn't deduct from the TD's plastic profits but I was told that was a negative sounding approach. I was told, "hey welcome new player, we want you to play but you're going to have to pay more than the others" and they didn't want that.

Now with your comments and the fact you are not a member maybe it will be considered in the future, after this 30 day test.

Abe, why did you join the PDGA?
Was it to avoid the $10 temp fees or another reason?

[twoputtok]

Martin, I think you are off a little on the concept. Both events have a place. And Pauls is right, its a two headed monster. You can't have one without the other. New players become Ams, Ams become pros. No different than any other sport.

I tend to think the PDGA needs to become just what their name says. Move the ams to a new org, where they can be true Ams. Use the PDGA to market the pros like they should be. Make it a true Professional Org. I'm not saying do away with the Ams, just give them their own organization, sanctioning and division.

[sschumacher]

Originally Posted by twoputtok

FurDog, get a clue and get off the I'm against anything wise says. We are talking regular minis and thats all. Which you might know that if you ever decided to show up for an admin meeting as we elected you to do.

8 out of 14 admins showed up for that meeting. I've missed exactly 3 meetings since I've been an Admin and I was even going to meetings as a member back in the days of AM Worlds. You can gripe all you want about me missing this meeting but don't single me out because if you do then you should bring in everybody else that can't make it to these meetings due to work or other responsibilties. In this case I doubt whether my voice alone would have changed this vote and I'm sure those the that voted for this did so cautiously. I'm not accusing them of being greedy.

I remember one time I asked one admin why we don't post some of this information on attendance, who voted for what, and other things and I was told that members voted us in based on trust and because of that we don't need to share that information. In other words IMO there is no individual responsibilty or accountabilty like when the Congressmen voted in the universal health plan that might put you out of business. It's just a small group of "good intention" guys in a meeting somewhere.

Yeah I missed the meeting and for the first time ever I asked that the minutes be emailed to me and all the others that didn't attend so they and I would be in the loop and why shouldn't they be. I made some comments about excluding women and juniors and I asked when will this be announced publically and got no reply.

So yeah I threw it out there because why wait? You don't think I would have complained like I'm doing now after the public announcement and how would that announcement be made? At the next mini?

I can tell everyone that I understand the intentions of the guys that voted for this are good and the fact they just want to do this as a one month trial is great. I know you got good intentions too.

I know that there are a lot of members as well as non TDSA members that read this board that can't post and I would suggest to them that they go to the TDSA contact page and call the Admin of their choice and voice their opinion because I don't want to hear it at my minis. Everybody knows how I stand and it not just because it was your idea. It's just not what this club was founded on IMO.

And for those of you that want to run for Admin, take note of Dave's suggestion that if you can't make it to the meetings you shouldn't be an Admin.

Moose run - would you have concrete if not for the TDSA? Did they pay for 100% of the concrete?
nuff said.

Well if Marie and I pay back the club the cost of the concrete can I get the exclusive "Me only" deal you get in Owasso? It might take a lot of minis for me to make that money back but at least I'll gain the personal independance you enjoy.

I'm not ashamed to admit that I felt NO repsonsibility to annouce it to NON-Members.
Based on that then should the club make all of its decisions public to all?

I don't see how a little transparantcy based on my comments above would be a problem.

Its not being elitist, its a user fee. Not ashamed of it.

Well maybe us TD's making money off these courses should start paying "User fee's" to the city and county when they mow our courses. We ARE running a "business" out there you know. I know for a fact if if one of those mobil Taco trucks sets up shop at Chandler the sheriff would be all over it.

Perhaps we should make up a story of the city and county charging us a "User Fee" and that is what we are going to force these non-member slackers to pay for.

As I said earlier, get a clue, that last statement has nothing to do with it.

Tell you what, why don't you get off your trash anything and everything wise says or does, quit trashing admins right and left for their vote on something that you chose not to participate in and offer something constructive to the conversation.

This is constructive. I have not mentioned any Admins by name. I am only voicing my opinion publically as an Admin in dis-agreement in hopes that after next month they vote to reconsider. And what difference does it make if I do it now and after the official announcement?

And let me ask you another thing. When you or any TD is personally running an event and you've gone out and bought 90 players packs worth of stuff out of your own pocket do you really care when you see the same non-TDSA members you're griping about here cashing over current members?

[pdorries]

Originally Posted by twoputtok

I tend to think the PDGA needs to become just what their name says. Move the ams to a new org, where they can be tur Ams. Use the PDGA to market the pros like they should be. Make it a true Professional Org. I'm not saying do away with the Ams, just give them their own organization, sanctioning and division.

Great idea, the two should be looked at seperately. Each type of player has different needs and functions. How cool would our sport be if we had a qualifying school like the PGA... I'm not saying we are that big yet, but it is a sweet idea!!! People always ask me how I became a pro, and it sucks telling them, "well, I just accepted cash and I was pro."

it would be awesome to say I graduated "q-school" and now am eligible to become a pro.

[twoputtok]

I don't care who wasn't there.

8 out of 14, all I know is you are the only one that wasn't there that is complaining.
You are the only admin voicing a public opinion when you CHOSE not to vote on it.
You are the only admin putting club business out there for public consumption before the attending admins had a chance to write any type of offical announcment.
You are the only Admin that has voiced anything against it. I know others voted against it but their not coming on here an crying like they have been fouled somehow.

Just how does this affect you in ANY way? You don't play minis, you bought a lifetime membership to avoid ever having to pay again, you don't TD anymore.
You randomly attend meetings, if you're in the mood.
Why do yo even bother with any of it anymore?

So how is this any skin off your nose?


The non-mems have more right to complain or voice their opinion than you do.


As for the players packs, again you are confusing a tournament with regular minis.

[twoputtok]

Originally Posted by pdorries

Great idea, the two should be looked at seperately. Each type of player has different needs and functions. How cool would our sport be if we had a qualifying school like the PGA... I'm not saying we are that big yet, but it is a sweet idea!!! People always ask me how I became a pro, and it sucks telling them, "well, I just accepted cash and I was pro."

it would be awesome to say I graduated "q-school" and now am eligible to become a pro.

it would be nice to say you qualified. Maybe by winning a certain amount of cash in a year or points, or ratings, but something.

Some one asked me what it takes to be a pro once, I told them about an extra $30 bucks.

[Barber Shop]

Yes Dave, I did not see any benefit in being a member of the TDSA in the past. If these ideas stick, you will see my name on that member list come january. This is the only year that I have said, "man I wish had a bag tag". Duff and others have done a great job in bringing some exictement back to old ideas that have died on the vine. I think adding the dollar on top of mini entry fees for Non-members will only help grow the club. nuff said (from a Non-Member)

As far as me being a member of the PDGA. Sometimes I question why I am. I dont really play enough events for the $10 fee to effect me. I do however like they ability to join in the conversations on the discussion board and I enjoy having a current rating to compare to others.

[twoputtok]

Thanks Abe, I hope the current Admins take notice of your post and answers.

I couldn't agree more.

[sschumacher]

Originally Posted by twoputtok

I don't care who wasn't there.

8 out of 14, all I know is you are the only one that wasn't there that is complaining.
You are the only admin voicing a public opinion when you CHOSE not to vote on it.
You are the only admin putting club business out there for public consumption before the attending admins had a chance to write any typ of offical announcment.
You are the only Admin that has voiced anything against it. I know others voted against it but their not coming on here an crying like they have been fouled somehow.

Just how does this affect you in ANY way? You don't play minis, you bought a lifetime membership to avoid ever having to pay again, you don't TD anymore.
You randomly attend meetings, if you're in the mood.
Why do yo even bother with any of it anymore?

So how is this any skin off your nose?


The non-mems have more right to complain or voice their opinion than you do.

Well I'm sorry I ruined your pity party Dave.

You're right. The website calls me a "Distinguished Life Time Member". Which means at some point without even knowing whether I would still be interested in this club, the people, or the sport in a few years, I paid four years worth of memberships for nothing. Funny you should call me out on that though because when I look at "The List" there are more of "US" than there are of "YOU".

And just for you, I'll be back on the 26th and all of next month. I don't expect to see you anyway.

I will go ahead and cover the 20% of any non-member that cashes at my minis for the month of September.

I will give the club it's normal 20% of the CTP and $1 per player and probably go ahead pay cash instead of plastic to any current TDSA AM member that hits its. I'll try to come with something equally of value for any current TDSA Pro player.

As for the Ace pot, it seldom gets above $50 but should it be more than that then if you're a non-member expect a membership and half of your cash going back to the TDSA.

[twoputtok]

Here that Ams, play Chandler next month and get paid in cash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No deductions for non-members at Chandler.

Grab it while you can, he may not be there much longer.

No telling what the future holds.



or



and we can still dream..............

[sschumacher]

There will be a 20% "weed and alcohal" tax for anyone "non-member" smoking or drinking in the parking lot or on the course though.

I'm calling that "The Centennial" rule.

[sschumacher]

Actually what I could do is run a "Double-Mini" at Chandler.

Those that like this policy will play the TDSA mini on Bear's Liar for $4 per person payout and those that don't like the policy can play an outlaw mini on Moose for a $5 per person payout. Separate ace pots and CTPs.

80% payout for one, 100% payout for the other.

Cat's and dog's living together!!!!

I wonder which mini the crowd will flock to???

[twoputtok]

Go ahead do that, I think thats a great idea.


That should do the trick of toasting yout tenure.

[sschumacher]

Originally Posted by twoputtok

Here that Ams, play Chandler next month and get paid in cash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No deductions for non-members at Chandler.

Grab it while you can, he may not be there much longer.

No telling what the future holds.

How about a 90 day probation period instead?

[sschumacher]

Originally Posted by twoputtok

Go ahead do that, I think thats a great idea.


That should do the trick of toasting yout tenure.

You're just PO'd because I thought of it first.

I believe I might be up for re-election in November so can't you wait until then?

Otherwise you might turn me into a martyr.

[Southpaw527]

Originally Posted by Martin_Norris

: upper tier events B, A, and NT all require added cash minimums that must be met, that costs extra. Pros like yourself all require extra amenities that are not required for recreational players IE longer tougher courses that do not suit the general playing public, concrete tee pads, first rate baskets, manicured courses, benches, trash cans, huge event staffs, event parties, and the list goes on and on.
DUH

I am an AM player Martin and I want all of those things. lol you are suggesting that there are people out there that would not want concrete tee pads, first rate baskets, mowed course,benches, trash cans, etc.?

[sschumacher]

I think what Martin is suggesting is that it takes a big up front cash investment to bring the big Pro's in vs just offering free beer and weed to get a big Am turnout.

Given enough free beer the average Am eventually won't care what he is tee'ing off of or what he's aiming at.

[Martin_Norris]

Originally Posted by twoputtok

Martin, I think you are off a little on the concept. Both events have a place. And Pauls is right, its a two headed monster. You can't have one without the other. New players become Ams, Ams become pros. No different than any other sport.

I tend to think the PDGA needs to become just what their name says. Move the ams to a new org, where they can be true Ams. Use the PDGA to market the pros like they should be. Make it a true Professional Org. I'm not saying do away with the Ams, just give them their own organization, sanctioning and division.

I agree that the PDGA needs to concentrate on the Professional Disc Golf and as with ball golf that has the USGA for the rest of the golfers the sport of Disc Golf needs to turn the attention of the USDGC toward that Armature side.

The point that every one is missing is not my favoring the AMs over the Pro players it is the Money requirements for the PDGA to run these events! while most clubs can arrange $500 added for "B" tiers the added cash for "A" and "NT" events gets a little out of hand at this time. When Professional Disc Golfers attain the marketability that encourages outside dollars to feed events then and only then will Disc Golf become like Ball Golf has become.

I love Pro disc golfers and wish I could be one or play like one this is not a Pros VS Joes deal this is all about the money, how to get it, how to spend it when to spend it

[Big Easy]

Devn off to a tough start at the Vibram Open 2nd Round.
3 over thru 5 holes...
but gets back to even thru hole #9
Currently tied for 7th thru 10 holes according to live scoring.
Way to bounce back Devan

[wforest]

… tonight … sign-ups begin 6:45pm … looking to tee at 7:30pm … at RIVERSIDE …
“Monday Nite Flights” …