Ask Chuck Kennedy - Page 64

SarahD · Nov 03 2009, 08:06 PM

Chuck, who would be the best person to explain the current philosophy of the PDGA as it relates to charitable giving?

As 'forced donations' become more and more prevalent at tournaments like the Magnolia Open, players are forced to choose between supporting someone else's agenda or not playing the event. As a capitalist, I support giving only in exchange for something else. For example, if the Magnolia Open donates proceeds to a children's charity, then I think that the recipients should be present, spotting on holes and helping the tournament directors. It would be a great lesson to those children to learn that work garners reward, rather than the concept of naked need earning reward, not to mention the healthy sunshine and exercise they could get.

As it stands currently, if my views do not coincide with the charitable agenda of the PDGA or a TD, then I am encouraged not to attend an event.

Why does the PDGA encourage agenda's that force people into paying for something they may not believe in, or choose to not participate? How does this encourage growth of the sport?

Why not separate the charitable agenda and the sport? Mandatory donations should be disallowed so that personal decisions do not prohibit growth of the sport.

SarahD · Nov 03 2009, 08:08 PM

This philosophy closely resembles Obamaeconomics in that people should not be given a choice to support or not support their fellow man. I do not believe either philosophy encourages prosperity and societal health.

cgkdisc · Nov 03 2009, 10:21 PM

I suppose you could ask Brian Graham about the philosophy although I'm not sure there is any PDGA philosophy as such, just support for events of all kinds that a TD or club chooses to host including charitable if desired.

ChrisWoj · Nov 04 2009, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahD

This philosophy closely resembles Obamaeconomics in that people should not be given a choice to support or not support their fellow man. I do not believe either philosophy encourages prosperity and societal health.

Sarah,

You're given every choice to simply not attend, as you acknowledged. There are hundreds of events every year. A tiny minority are supporting a charity. I'm sorry that that doesn't jive with your personal agenda, but the sport is still growing regardless of what a tiny tiny minority does, and in fact the likelihood of the event getting positive press increases as they work with charities, helping to grow the sport.

krupicka · Nov 04 2009, 04:01 AM

There are also plenty of cases where if a tournament is donating to a charity, sponsorship from local businesses increases.

SarahD · Nov 04 2009, 02:55 PM

You can still receive press and local sponsorship by supporting a charity without MANDATORY DONATIONS. Please read my point more carefully. Why not disallow forced compassion?

As you said, without choice of donating or not donating, the only choice left is non-attendence. You cannot argue this supports growth of the sport.

SarahD · Nov 04 2009, 02:56 PM

Which thread would be appropriate to ask Brian Graham?

cgkdisc · Nov 04 2009, 03:12 PM

You could create one in the Other PDGA topics area maybe called Charitable Events Sanctioning? Not sure Brian would respond but he would likely read the thread.

discette · Nov 04 2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahD

Which thread would be appropriate to ask Brian Graham?

You could start a thread since one does not exist. Or better yet, send an email directly to Brian. Here is a link to the contact page.

http://www.pdga.com/contact?a=sf

JohnLambert · Nov 04 2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahD

Which thread would be appropriate to ask Brian Graham?

The best thing you can do for a tournament that you don't like is not to play it. It's better for everyone really.

SarahD · Nov 04 2009, 07:52 PM

Why do you hate freedom, John Lambert? Why is giving a player the freedom to choose to give or not give something that should withheld?

"A tournament that I don't like?" Way to misconstrue. I like tournaments. I don't like deprivation of personal decisions.

I also like the idea of maximum participation at events which in turn grows the sport. If the "best thing I can do is not to play" when my freedom is threatened, then how does this grow the sport?

Let's stop subverting the real issue I brought up with diversions, shall we?

exczar · Nov 04 2009, 11:04 PM

I saw a bumper sticker that said, "Don't like abortion? Don't have one". How about, "Don't like tournaments that donate to causes you don't support? Don't enter it."

Playing in tournaments is a privilege, not a right. You have the "freedom", love it or hate it, to participate or not.

JohnLambert · Nov 04 2009, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahD

Why do you hate freedom, John Lambert? Why is giving a player the freedom to choose to give or not give something that should withheld?

"A tournament that I don't like?" Way to misconstrue. I like tournaments. I don't like deprivation of personal decisions.

I also like the idea of maximum participation at events which in turn grows the sport. If the "best thing I can do is not to play" when my freedom is threatened, then how does this grow the sport?

Let's stop subverting the real issue I brought up with diversions, shall we?

I'm not really in to debating about disc golf freedom, all I was trying to say is do not participate, that's the best way to not support a organizational agenda. I suppose you could argue that you're raising awareness, but I'd guess most of us could care less about such a trivial issue. Good luck with your cause! Maybe I'll feel more enlightened if you use bigger words. That usually works for me.

krupicka · Nov 05 2009, 06:05 PM

Chuck, do you know when the ratings correction will be made for the last update. We had a couple tournaments where the wrong course was tied to a round giving extremely inaccurate round ratings.

cgkdisc · Nov 05 2009, 06:07 PM

I'm not sure there's a correction run in-between updates this time since the deadline for events to be reported for the regular December update is already coming up in a few weeks just after Thanksgiving.

cgkdisc · Nov 06 2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Chuck, do you know when the ratings correction will be made for the last update. We had a couple tournaments where the wrong course was tied to a round giving extremely inaccurate round ratings.

Sounds like there might be a correction run posted on Nov 24.

krupicka · Nov 06 2009, 09:05 PM

Thanks for the info.

AlmaWillie · Nov 10 2009, 10:12 PM

Hey Chuck,

Any ideas when there might be another Super Class ratings update? We just finished another tourney and had some pretty good rounds turned in. We have a couplke of guys who are really hammering each other about who will be the top Super Class player in the state.

I still LOVE Super Class!!!

cgkdisc · Nov 10 2009, 10:32 PM

The SC Ratings were updated in October. The Super Class link page on the PDGA site was accidentally deleted when they were doing some changes. I need to get the page re-established with Dave from the backup files. There will be another SC ratings update each time the regular ratings are updated if there are a few new reports to process.

cgkdisc · Nov 11 2009, 03:09 PM

The Super Class page is now back up again: http://www.pdga.com/super-class

The current Super Class ratings for October are here: http://www.pdga.com/pdga-documents/super-class-ratings

thediscinmusician · Nov 14 2009, 10:37 PM

Usually PDGA posts when the next ratings update is on the front page...haven't seen it yet. Do you know when that is. THANKS!

cgkdisc · Nov 15 2009, 02:41 AM

The dates for this year and in the future will be maintained in this FAQ: http://www.pdga.com/faq/ratings/when-updated

Dec 15th next full update with a small correction run at the end of this month.

krupicka · Nov 19 2009, 12:44 PM

This was in the October teleconference:

Quote:

Feldberg is talking to Chuck trying to come up with a mathematical way to change the ratings.

What does Feldberg want to do with the ratings?

cgkdisc · Nov 19 2009, 05:33 PM

Dave and I talked more about the World Rankings process than ratings, especially now that the Players Cup is on hiatus for a few years. The other issue is currently the Memorial gets more weight than other NTs. We talked about ways to incorporate the NT events in a different way than specifically highlighting just the Memorial even though it's usually the biggest field and in a different time of the year than the other major events used in the rankings. I am testing some options along those lines and we'll use something a little different for NTs other than just using the Memorial for the 2010 World Rankings.

Regarding ratings, Gentry, Roger and I have been looking at ways to improve the process of producing SSAs for each round. Rather than use the scores of every propagator who plays a round, we're looking at only using the propagators that have the lowest std deviations and a rating based on more rounds IF we have enough of these "premium props" playing. We're doing some tests to figure out what those criteria might be.

discette · Yesterday, 09:57 PM

When do TD reports need to be submitted to be included in the December 15th ratings update?

krupicka · Yesterday, 10:24 PM

12/1

http://www.pdga.com/announcements/ne...cember-15-2009

Nov 03 2009, 10:21 PM	#1893
cgkdisc PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 3,849	I suppose you could ask Brian Graham about the philosophy although I'm not sure there is any PDGA philosophy as such, just support for events of all kinds that a TD or club chooses to host including charitable if desired. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Nov 04 2009, 03:12 PM	#1898
cgkdisc PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 3,849	You could create one in the Other PDGA topics area maybe called Charitable Events Sanctioning? Not sure Brian would respond but he would likely read the thread. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Nov 04 2009, 11:04 PM	#1902
exczar PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 1,310	I saw a bumper sticker that said, "Don't like abortion? Don't have one". How about, "Don't like tournaments that donate to causes you don't support? Don't enter it." Playing in tournaments is a privilege, not a right. You have the "freedom", love it or hate it, to participate or not. __________________ Bill Burns DGRZ001 -------------------------------- I used to be really good; then the beveled-edged disc came out.

Nov 05 2009, 06:07 PM	#1905
cgkdisc PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 3,849	I'm not sure there's a correction run in-between updates this time since the deadline for events to be reported for the regular December update is already coming up in a few weeks just after Thanksgiving. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Nov 10 2009, 10:12 PM	#1908
AlmaWillie PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Alma, AR Posts: 665	Hey Chuck, Any ideas when there might be another Super Class ratings update? We just finished another tourney and had some pretty good rounds turned in. We have a couplke of guys who are really hammering each other about who will be the top Super Class player in the state. I still LOVE Super Class!!! __________________ Frozen Barrels Ice Bowl - Watch for it!!

Nov 03 2009, 08:06 PM	#1891
SarahD PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Novi, MI Posts: 376	Chuck, who would be the best person to explain the current philosophy of the PDGA as it relates to charitable giving? As 'forced donations' become more and more prevalent at tournaments like the Magnolia Open, players are forced to choose between supporting someone else's agenda or not playing the event. As a capitalist, I support giving only in exchange for something else. For example, if the Magnolia Open donates proceeds to a children's charity, then I think that the recipients should be present, spotting on holes and helping the tournament directors. It would be a great lesson to those children to learn that work garners reward, rather than the concept of naked need earning reward, not to mention the healthy sunshine and exercise they could get. As it stands currently, if my views do not coincide with the charitable agenda of the PDGA or a TD, then I am encouraged not to attend an event. Why does the PDGA encourage agenda's that force people into paying for something they may not believe in, or choose to not participate? How does this encourage growth of the sport? Why not separate the charitable agenda and the sport? Mandatory donations should be disallowed so that personal decisions do not prohibit growth of the sport.

Nov 03 2009, 08:08 PM	#1892
SarahD PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Novi, MI Posts: 376	This philosophy closely resembles Obamaeconomics in that people should not be given a choice to support or not support their fellow man. I do not believe either philosophy encourages prosperity and societal health.

Nov 04 2009, 04:01 AM	#1895
krupicka PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 1,120	There are also plenty of cases where if a tournament is donating to a charity, sponsorship from local businesses increases.

Nov 04 2009, 02:55 PM	#1896
SarahD PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Novi, MI Posts: 376	You can still receive press and local sponsorship by supporting a charity without MANDATORY DONATIONS. Please read my point more carefully. Why not disallow forced compassion? As you said, without choice of donating or not donating, the only choice left is non-attendence. You cannot argue this supports growth of the sport.

Nov 04 2009, 02:56 PM	#1897
SarahD PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Novi, MI Posts: 376	Which thread would be appropriate to ask Brian Graham?

Nov 04 2009, 07:52 PM	#1901
SarahD PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Novi, MI Posts: 376	Why do you hate freedom, John Lambert? Why is giving a player the freedom to choose to give or not give something that should withheld? "A tournament that I don't like?" Way to misconstrue. I like tournaments. I don't like deprivation of personal decisions. I also like the idea of maximum participation at events which in turn grows the sport. If the "best thing I can do is not to play" when my freedom is threatened, then how does this grow the sport? Let's stop subverting the real issue I brought up with diversions, shall we?

Nov 05 2009, 06:05 PM	#1904
krupicka PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 1,120	Chuck, do you know when the ratings correction will be made for the last update. We had a couple tournaments where the wrong course was tied to a round giving extremely inaccurate round ratings.

Nov 06 2009, 09:05 PM	#1907
krupicka PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 1,120	Thanks for the info.

Nov 10 2009, 10:32 PM	#1909
cgkdisc PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 3,849	The SC Ratings were updated in October. The Super Class link page on the PDGA site was accidentally deleted when they were doing some changes. I need to get the page re-established with Dave from the backup files. There will be another SC ratings update each time the regular ratings are updated if there are a few new reports to process. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Nov 11 2009, 03:09 PM	#1910
cgkdisc PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 3,849	The Super Class page is now back up again: http://www.pdga.com/super-class The current Super Class ratings for October are here: http://www.pdga.com/pdga-documents/super-class-ratings __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Nov 14 2009, 10:37 PM	#1911
thediscinmusician PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Athens, AL Posts: 104	New Ratings Update Usually PDGA posts when the next ratings update is on the front page...haven't seen it yet. Do you know when that is. THANKS!

Nov 15 2009, 02:41 AM	#1912
cgkdisc PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 3,849	The dates for this year and in the future will be maintained in this FAQ: http://www.pdga.com/faq/ratings/when-updated Dec 15th next full update with a small correction run at the end of this month. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Nov 19 2009, 05:33 PM	#1914
cgkdisc PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 3,849	Dave and I talked more about the World Rankings process than ratings, especially now that the Players Cup is on hiatus for a few years. The other issue is currently the Memorial gets more weight than other NTs. We talked about ways to incorporate the NT events in a different way than specifically highlighting just the Memorial even though it's usually the biggest field and in a different time of the year than the other major events used in the rankings. I am testing some options along those lines and we'll use something a little different for NTs other than just using the Memorial for the 2010 World Rankings. Regarding ratings, Gentry, Roger and I have been looking at ways to improve the process of producing SSAs for each round. Rather than use the scores of every propagator who plays a round, we're looking at only using the propagators that have the lowest std deviations and a rating based on more rounds IF we have enough of these "premium props" playing. We're doing some tests to figure out what those criteria might be. __________________ Rater of the tossed arc.

Yesterday, 09:57 PM	#1915
discette PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: So Cal Posts: 1,861	When do TD reports need to be submitted to be included in the December 15th ratings update? __________________ Do you like to play with girls?

Yesterday, 10:24 PM	#1916
krupicka PDGA Member Player Stats Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 1,120	12/1 http://www.pdga.com/announcements/ne...cember-15-2009

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