Out of Bounds Question

[scarson]

How do you determine an out of bounds area after (or before) the beginning (end) of an out of bounds line or row of stakes?



In this simple example 1 possible lies are represented as A and B on the diagram. Since the lie is past the end of the OB line I assume the lie is in bounds and that the OB line doesn't extend to infinity. However, I have been told by players that the line does extend to infinity. Past the end of the line one should be safe to assume that the OB area extends to infinity away from the line perpendicular from the ends of the line.

It gets more difficult, however when the line isn't straight.



Lie A is clearly past the end of the OB line when perpendicular to the fairway, however it is not if the line extends perpendicular to the OB line itself. B is similarly arranged as not OB if the line extends perpendicular to either the fairway or the end direction of the OB line. I can't remember why I put a C on the diagram...but I think that is safe regardless.

What does everyone think...and more importantly, can someone find a definition rule or Q&A that addresses these situations?

[jconnell]

I don't believe there is, nor should there be a single standard answer. It is up to the designer/TD to determine how to proceed in each situation. I have seen it played both ways...neither is wrong as long as the proper way to rule is made clear in advance.

However, the OB line in the second is a ****-poorly marked OB no matter how it is intended to be played. If the line is intended to extend to infinity, the line should be straight so the direction of "infinity" is clear. That wavy line tells nothing of direction, not to mention that if B is intended to be OB, the marked line really should begin behind the tee so the disc's point of entry is easy to determine.

IMO, lines like this should only physically end in places where throws are unlikely to go. Having to invoke "infinite extension" of the line or not should be a rare call. In that second graphic in particular, it appears it would be a frequent concern.

[cgkdisc]

OB lines cannot end. In theory, the OB line is supposed to be a closed loop to create an OB area. So these examples are improper marking because the default interpretation could be for those lines to continue the direction they are heading at their ends. Or, the other common interpretation is for the line to break off 90 degrees away from the basket when they are straight like your first diagram.

A less desireable but acceptable marking procedure would be to add an arrow to the end of the line pointing the direction to infinity to add some clarity and reduce the amount of paint or flags needed. In these examples, it's up to the TD or group (rec play) to indicate how the OB should be played. So throw a provisional if you encounter this marking issue and it's unclear whether your shot is OB.

[drumin5216]

A good TD should plan ahead for the "gray" areas on a course to clearly identify what is in or out of bounds.

[scarson]

Personally I think that, when the out of bounds area should defined as extending perpendicular to the line of play away from and including the OB line. Thus, regardless of the shape of the OB line the OB area extends away from the line of play, not parallel to or possibly encroaching on the in bounds area.

[jconnell]

Originally Posted by scarson

Personally I think that, when the out of bounds area should defined as extending perpendicular to the line of play away from and including the OB line. Thus, regardless of the shape of the OB line the OB area extends away from the line of play, not parallel to or possibly encroaching on the in bounds area.

The line of play is different for every player once they're off the tee. I don't think utilizing the line of play as a determinant for OB is a good idea. I'm thinking you mean something else that isn't "line of play" as defined in the rule book, so you probably want to rephrase.

Bottom line is laying out a single line segment to denote OB, like you have in the diagrams, is a terrible way to denote OB. Doesn't matter how one should or will interpret it, it's bad. If there is a specific area that should be OB, then mark it that way. Don't go halfway and tell players to figure out the rest on their own. Make it 100% a fixed area that players can identify without taking out protractors and surveying equipment.

[bruce_brakel]

Answering the original question, you don't determine that. You call the TD on your cell phone if he is not playing or you play it both ways and ask TD when you are done, if the player disagrees with the group decision on the o.b. status of the disc.